Connecting Guitar or Drums to arcade cabinet...

[pboreham]

Hi all,

Think this is one for further down the line, but its been something thats been on my mind the last couple of days as I plan my new project.

Ok, I love Guitar Hero type games and see that MAME supports GuitarFreaks and DrumMania.

Has anyone connected up any peripherals for these games? I think the 360 Guitar Hero peripheral works via USB, but would that would with GF and would it simply just connect via USB?

If this is a crazy question then please bear with me - got a lot to learn! 

[buks]

You can connect an xbox360 guitar or a Playstation guitar with an Ps to usb connector. I'm not familiar with the games you mentioned but theres a couple of windows clones of GH that are worth looking at :

1. Guitar Zero - no longer in production as the author pulled it after complaints from the GH authors. You can find it though by searching google....

2. Frets on Fire - I've written a software review of this in the softare forum (sub forum "software reviews"). Its excellent and you can get the GH hero song packs as well as 100's of fan made packs.

There another one as well but I've not tried it and can't remember whats its called.

As you haven't started your cab yet this is an excellent side project as you don't actually need to do muchother than get the software and a guitar.

Buks

[pboreham]

Excellent, thanks Buks!

I used to have Frets on Fire, but it ran like a dog on my PC for some reason. I've got a pretty powerful iMac (running Vista), so not sure what the issue was, but will certainly give it a go.

I've got a PS2->USB convertor, so I may even build that flush into the front or side of my cab!

Thanks again, Paul.

[MonMotha]

For DrumMania, get DTXMania and a Yamaha DTXpress or similar.  This is a MIDI drum set and can be hooked up directly to your computer.  The arcade controls for DrumMania are EXTREMELY similar (they're made by Yamaha), and the DTXpress is actually a little nicer since you can adjust the hi-hat to a position more conducive to cross-sticking.  DTXmania basically stepmania for DM/GF.  Simfiles are available for many of the songs from the series, and many extra ones are also available.

I'm not sure how MAME has the control emulation set up for DrumMania.  I haven't taken apart a DrumMania cab (about the only Bemani cab I HAVEN'T taken apart) to check how the controls are wired natively.  I know KeyboardMania is actually MIDI, but I believe DrumMania just hooks the sensors directly up to the IO expander board.

For Guitar Freaks, things are likely a little easier as there's a lot fewer controls and buttons.  I'd say just get a Guitar Hero controller and either mod it to have raw button outputs and use a controller interface of your choice or attempt to use a playstation USB converter - probably the cheapest way. I should point out that while the control concept is similar to Guitar Hero, gameplay is NOTHING alike.

Mostly arcade faithful home versions are also available for PS2 (Japan region only, so you'll have to import).  Guitar Hero controllers won't work since the idiots making them decided to deliberately make them incompatible, probably since many of the 3rd party Guitar Freaks controllers already supported 5 and even 6 buttons.  You'll have to get a real Guitar Freaks controller (3rd party available more often than the original Konami one at this point).  Konamistyle sells a GF ASC, which most of the importers will also sell you, at a price.  The USB drum set option works with GF/DM 3rd/4th and newer (including V, V2, and all the collections from in between).  If you really want to play the oldest 2 versions with your MIDI setup, I have an adapter board to adapt MIDI to the digital controller that Konami originally specified (and that is almostly unplayably small).

[Crowquill]

For Guitar Freaks, things are likely a little easier as there's a lot fewer controls and buttons.  I'd say just get a Guitar Hero controller and either mod it to have raw button outputs and use a controller interface of your choice or attempt to use a playstation USB converter - probably the cheapest way. I should point out that while the control concept is similar to Guitar Hero, gameplay is NOTHING alike.

Mostly arcade faithful home versions are also available for PS2 (Japan region only, so you'll have to import).  Guitar Hero controllers won't work since the idiots making them decided to deliberately make them incompatible, probably since many of the 3rd party Guitar Freaks controllers already supported 5 and even 6 buttons.  You'll have to get a real Guitar Freaks controller (3rd party available more often than the original Konami one at this point).  Konamistyle sells a GF ASC, which most of the importers will also sell you, at a price. 

IIRC, Harmonix hated Konami's guitars and kept breaking them which is why they designed their own. Konami's read as a special controller while the Guitar Hero guitars for PS2 are read by the console as a normal dual shock 1-style pad with the left d-pad held down. In fact, if you start a song in GH with the left d-pad held down on a controller it'll re-map all of the buttons since it thinks the guitar is attached. Any PS->USB adapter should work with it but left will be held down and you might have to remap things a bit to compensate. Up and down on the strum bar are digital up and down, the whammy bar is left analog stick up. From memory, the fret buttons read as:

R2
O
Triangle
X
[]

[buks]

Just re-read your comments on Frets running like a dog on your PC - try Guitar Zero as some people have reported that it runs better than Frets. AFAIK Frets is written in Python and GZ is written in C++ - which might explain the slowdown. I've got a 1.8GHz machine in my cab and it runs fine.

Buks

[my58vw]

Before we start to bash guitar freaks and bemani - let me say that they were first on the block - and guitar hero should have made their controllers compatible. Just because they choose not to be, does not make either better than another. GF is just a more challenging game than GH - GH has more popular music. To my knowledge DTX is only avalable from GFVDMV, GF2DM2, Masterpiece Silver, and Masterpiece Gold - it dies not work with earlier games.

If you sign up here you can find complete simfiles for all GF/DM games on the home page

http://www.gdamania.net/

MAME is along was to making GF/DM smooth running on any machine, kind of like beatmania.

GF ASCs are pretty much non existent right now, I can not even get my hands on one, the KOC (small version) can be had via places like playasia. A gentleman in china names DJDAO is making a replica of the arcade controller from Roland parts, you can find out about that on bemanistyle.com

If you have any questions I can answer them - I own every GF/DM game (PS2) in existance, along with bits of arcade hardware... BTW GF3rdDM2nd is very hard to find.

[pboreham]

Just tried the PC version of Frets on Fire and it works smooth and fine - I love it!!! Only got the default song pack at the moment, but am currently obtaining all the other packs - looks like hundreds and hundreds of songs.

Tried playing Sultans of Swing on the keyboard, but it just sounded painful!

Will definately install FoF in the cab and use a GH guitar for the controller. This is gonna be ace!

[Crowquill]

pboreham--you could always try the OS X version of Frets of Fire too. Should be a cool project. Several other people have mentioned in passing doing this as well. Should be interesting to see how some of these develop.

My58vw--Don't get me wrong--I'm not bashing Bemani by any means. Konami pioneered pretty much any aspect of music games. I definitely prefer GH over GF, mostly due to song selection. I'd much rather play guitar along with a track I know. The other factor is availability-I've only seen one GF arcade machine to play.  I also have to give props to Harmonix for developing such a polished game. It's not just guitar hero either...I have Karaoke Revolution and Party, Amplitude, Frequency, and GH2. All are very well-developed games. It also might help that it's a game developed for a western audience.

The funny part is I'm not even that good at rhythm games. I'm just in awe of the funky controllers and how they give a completely different play experience than other games. That's probably why I spend so much time on these boards and why I spent the time building a DDR pad. It's also probably why I have a closet and 2 drawers full of controllers.

One other rhythm game for PS2 that doesn't get enough attention--Taiko Drum Master. Donkey Konga is basically the same game, but hitting the Taiko drums with sticks is much more satisfying (and less tiring) than the congas. And as a bonus you get to drum along to music from Katamari Damacy.

And to get back on topic...

[MonMotha]

Before we start to bash guitar freaks and bemani - let me say that they were first on the block - and guitar hero should have made their controllers compatible. Just because they choose not to be, does not make either better than another. GF is just a more challenging game than GH - GH has more popular music. To my knowledge DTX is only avalable from GFVDMV, GF2DM2, Masterpiece Silver, and Masterpiece Gold - it dies not work with earlier games.

It also works on 3rd/2nd, but nothing earlier, hence my MIDI to Playstation Digital adapter.

As far as controller quality, it can be spotty.  The Guitar Hero controller is slightly better built, yes.  However, all the GF controllers I've used (including the official Konami one) all just show up as a digital controller, same as the GH one, but with no buttons held.  All of Konami's custom controllers work like this except the pop'n mini/ASC, which has 3 buttons stuck on to indicate controller type.

If you want info on any Bemani hardware, I also have far too much experience with them, including non-573 based products such as Para Para, IIDX, original beatmania, etc.  573 and Twinkle (original IIDX) are just playstation based, which is why MAME has support.

As far as starting yet another GH vs. GF flamewar, I'll refrain, but I will point out that Guitar Freaks existed for over 5 years before Guitar Hero showed up.  There was even a US arcade release (albeit very limited).  I mostly play IIDX, pop'n music, and Pump It Up now (the latter not being a Konami product).

[my58vw]

That is quite interesting that the adaptor will work for the earlier games - I am still trying to decide if I will buy DJDAO's drums or get DTXes

I am one of the largest bemani and other music game collector on bemanistyle -

I own over 70 music games, including beatmania the final, several upgrades, and am aquiring dance maniax as we speak!

[MonMotha]

Spork?  I know many of the Bemani arcade collectors, but not them all, of course.

And yeah, the DTX (actually, any old MIDI device on channel 10) will work with 3rd/2nd, but none of the other old ones.   3rd/2nd was of course the last one before V was released, so it was nice at least that it supported the MIDI option.  I'm churning out a somewhat finalized build of the MIDI to Digital PS controller adapter if you're interested.  Waiting on the microcontrollers to show up.

Also, if you happen to have a IIDX machine and want to play the CS versions on it or use it with a PC, have I got the board for you...  Working on a similar adapter for DDR (DDR is electrically very, very nasty), but it'll be a while.  I had a request for a para para USB adapter, too, but I haven't done anything with that since the person who was interested doesn't actually have the machine at his place yet.

Most of my Bemani hardware tinkering has been related to hooking up CS and emulation to the real cabinets since the real upgrades are so darned expensive to put in a basement arcade, and of course using a home version is completely legit if it's actually in a home.


HUM: I may be off by a version here - I don't play the CS GF/DM much as I don't have a worthy controller.  The only "older" (pre-V) version to support the USB MIDI option is the Guitadora bundle, whatever arcade releases that was meant to mirror.

[pboreham]

pboreham--you could always try the OS X version of Frets of Fire too. Should be a cool project....

I remembered that it was actually the OSX version of FoF that ran slow and jerky (on new 20" iMac), so not sure what the issue was, but it runs fine in Vista.

Just got the 400 Rock song pack - not looked at it yet though.

So this brings me back now to the best controller for this thing - shall I get the 360 USB one, or get a PS2 one and use the adapter - if I get a PS2 one, which works best, the GH1 or GH2 guitar?

Thanks for all your help guys, this thread is really interesting!

[buks]

I've read on another forum (might have been one of the FoF forums) that a few people were having issues with xbox360 guitars. I think they complained that the buttons were sticking. I've got a PS2 Guitar (I think its from GH2) and PS-USB adaptor and it works great. The only thing I cant get to work is the whammy bar - but FoF doesn't use it anyway.

Buks

[pboreham]

Cool, thanks Buks. Is there anyway you can confirm it is the GH2 guitar before I start looking.

I think they were different (GH1, GH2) if I recall...

[buks]

Hi,

Its borrowed from a PS2 owning friend who said :

"Its the guitar that came with GH2 BUT its exactly the same as the guitar that came with GH1"

So I'll be ordering this from amazon.co.uk as its the same guitar :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/o/ASIN/B000GPB9CM/ref=s9_asin_title_1-2259_g1-1966_p/203-9795600-0049546?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=04QJEZ34ENX9GTHW2VMD&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=139042191&pf_rd_i=468294

Buks

[pboreham]

Cool thanks - for some reason I though the GH2 guitar didnt work with GH1 and was wired up different?

Anyway, thanks for finding out. I'd scout ebay, prob get it a few quid cheaper?

[buks]

I'd rather have a nice shiny new one but ebay would be a good start for finding a bargain.

Buks

[sosuke]

Sorry for the less than stellar pics. But here is the difference.




GH is black, GH2 is red. That's about the only thing different between the two controllers. And from the looks of that pic on amazon, the replacement controller is black. And as you can see I get tons of use out of the gh2 controller... lol