Cabinet getting hot

[neil324]

Whenever my cabinet has been on for a while i lose the vsync on the monitor and i have to adjust it, then re-adjust when its cooled down. Do i need to to add more cooling? The Pc sits inside the cab with no case and there is no other cooling.

[shardian]

Leave the back off of your cabinet for a few days and see how it acts.

[RandyT]

Do i need to to add more cooling? The Pc sits inside the cab with no case and there is no other cooling.

When you say no other cooling, do you mean that the cabinet is not vented at all?  If so, you should at minimum have a vent in the top back of your cabinet and one at the bottom.  This will allow for natural convection cooling.  Heat rises, so it will escape from the top while drawing cooler air from the room in at the bottom.  Placing a "muffin" fan at the top will work even better.

RandyT

[SavannahLion]

Personally, I like blueberry muffins, but your mileage may vary.

Before installing a fan and after you try the venting slots. You should take care in what fan you select.

The smaller (such as the 90mm) fans common with PC's run at a higher RPM so they tend to be very noisy. The quiet or silent fans of the same size don't move enough air, so avoid them. If you aim for a 180mm or larger fan, the lower the RPM required to move the same amount of air as the 90mm which equates to lower noise.

Go big, go slow, and go easy, it'll be a better experience for everyone.

[HaRuMaN]

Go big, go slow, and go easy, it'll be a better experience for everyone.

heh...

[WaRpEd]

Something else to try is wiring in a dimmer switch to control the voltage and noise.

[neil324]

Do i need to to add more cooling? The Pc sits inside the cab with no case and there is no other cooling.

When you say no other cooling, do you mean that the cabinet is not vented at all?  If so, you should at minimum have a vent in the top back of your cabinet and one at the bottom.  This will allow for natural convection cooling.  Heat rises, so it will escape from the top while drawing cooler air from the room in at the bottom.  Placing a "muffin" fan at the top will work even better.

RandyT

Yes the cabinet is vented, i will test with the back off for a bit to see if it is a heat problem. I can always tell when it getting hot you can smell it inside the the room

[leapinlew]

I have been using super silent 120mm fans from newegg. They cost $20, but they are worth it.

[neil324]

Yep think i need a fan fitted, played today with back off no problems.
Is it best to fit the fan towards the top of the cabinet as heat rises.

[FrizzleFried]

Personally,  I install an INTAKE fan (120MM) toward the bottom and an EXHAUST fan (120MM) toward the top...

[RandyT]

Personally,  I install an INTAKE fan (120MM) toward the bottom and an EXHAUST fan (120MM) toward the top...

Usually it's done the other way around.  If you look at the way a computer case does it, you see that there are openings in certain places for air enter, usually at the bottom front, and that creates a cooling path on the way to the power supply which exhausts the heated air.  Sometimes additional fans are used to force air inside and increase the volume, but these should at least have a grate or filter to prevent forcing a ton of dust or other matter into the cabinet.

RandyT

[Hoopz]

Personally,  I install an INTAKE fan (120MM) toward the bottom and an EXHAUST fan (120MM) toward the top...

Usually it's done the other way around.  If you look at the way a computer case does it, you see that there are openings in certain places for air enter, usually at the bottom front, and that creates a cooling path on the way to the power supply which exhausts the heated air.  Sometimes additional fans are used to force air inside and increase the volume, but these should at least have a grate or filter to prevent forcing a ton of dust or other matter into the cabinet.

RandyT

I took FF's post to mean that he brings in air at the bottom and moves air out at the top.  That's the way my pc cases have always done it.  Are you reading that differently than I am Randy?

[FrizzleFried]

Personally,  I install an INTAKE fan (120MM) toward the bottom and an EXHAUST fan (120MM) toward the top...

Usually it's done the other way around.  If you look at the way a computer case does it, you see that there are openings in certain places for air enter, usually at the bottom front, and that creates a cooling path on the way to the power supply which exhausts the heated air.  Sometimes additional fans are used to force air inside and increase the volume, but these should at least have a grate or filter to prevent forcing a ton of dust or other matter into the cabinet.

RandyT

I took FF's post to mean that he brings in air at the bottom and moves air out at the top.  That's the way my pc cases have always done it.  Are you reading that differently than I am Randy?

Exactly Hoopz...the INTAKE at the bottom brings air in and the EXHAUST at the top forces air out.  Also,  if  you are going to go with a single fan,  an intake fan at the the bottom is better to have than just an exhaust fan at the top.  If you only have the exhaust fan at the top,  a lot of cabinets have no holes at the bottom of them so the air down there becomes dead air as the negative pressure created by the exhaust fan sucks the air from the path of least resistance which would be the "vents" at the top of the cabinet preventing proper cooling at the bottom of the case.   The INTAKE fan at the bottom would create positive pressure throughout the cabinet forcing air out the top vents and replacing the air in the cabinet more evenly.

[RandyT]

it will work either way, and I didn't say that it wouldn't.  But pressurizing the cab from a low point is probably not the most efficient for a couple of reasons.  Fans down low have a higher tendency to pick up dust and debris at floor level (gravity puts debris down low) and inject it into your cabinet.  A few well placed vents down low will bring cool air in over a distributed area and not have the same vacuum cleaner effect as a concentrated force down low.  The turbulence caused by forcing the air in may also completely screw up the natural convention cooling and would make the system rely completely on pressure to expel the heat, which might require a larger fan.  These are just theories based on some simple physics.  I haven't actually built a clear cabinet and injected smoke into it to watch what happens

Your computer case works exactly as I said.  The fan on the power supply exhausts the heat at the top back of the box, while strategically placed vent holes in the case create a path of cooler air over components that need it.  Extra fans in the cases are usually optional, but are used in addition to the heat exhaust arrangement.  I have never seen it used any other way.

RandyT

[danny_galaga]

problem. I can always tell when it getting hot you can smell it inside the the room

 

um, if its getting so hot you can smell it i think youve answered your own question about whether you need more cooling

[Xiaou2]

  Most new PC cases have intake fans in the lower front of the case.
Some use a small filter which keeps the dust intake to a minimal...
but I think many do not.   The reason may be that since many people
do not ever open their cases to clean such a filter.. it would get clogged
and overheat the entire system.

  As for Air-current placement..  Its pretty logical that if heat does rise,
you would be better to put the exhaust higher up.   This is one reason
that they put the power supply at the top of the case.   (So it does not
add more hot air into the main chamber and that heat rising right up to
the CPU, sizzling it to crisp)

 When you try to fight that natural flow of Heat rising... is where
problems occur.

 Yes, dust is always a problem with air movement...  but its never that
big of an issue.   A simple spray of compressed air once a year would
be just fine.   A small filter could be placed near the fan inlet too.
(thought I never saw any arcade machines use filters)

 Even if you tried to force cooler air into the top... it still would
carry dust into the cab.   If that were not the case,  then we would
not have to dust high shelves, door overhangs...etc.   The dust is
so fine, that it always finds its ways into the air, and accumulates
into nice piles which then attract (static) even more of the stuff.

 As for the distributed idea...  well..  the real problem with that
is that by adding only top exhaust fans and a few well placed
vents... you may not achieve a good enough cooling rate.
Partly because air is like a fluid..   It may seep in from the middle
and of other parts of the cabinet that are not as cool where the
vents are placed.   Thus, the cool air mostly staying below.
Also, components not getting enough airflow from below..
because the air is not moving enough at the bottom of the
case.   And finally, even with a distributed non-pressured
system... you will still get good amounts of dust.   

 In the arcade Im pretty sure all the intake fans blew into the
bottom.. and exhaled through top mounted fans.

 Ive learned the hard way,  that merely trying to suck out
all the air in my pc did not cool it enough.   I lost 5 HDs because
of poor cooling.   Heat rose from one drive up to the next... thus
making the top drives sizzle to death.    I know for sure, because
it was always the top drive that died.   

 Now, Ive added more space in-between them, and put large
fans in front of them that blow cool air into the case, and across
their surfaces.   Ive not lost a drive since then, and its been
several years time.   The case is also twice (or more) as cool
as it used to be.

 My case is set up with cool air coming in from the bottom front,
then pushed  via another fan thru the CPU heat fins,  then exiting
out the rear and top mounted power supply areas.   On this med
temp night..  my cpu is a mere 84f degrees.  (Core Duo  2.4)   
   
 Ive had older setups where the inside of the case was like
a blast furnace.   Also, I experienced this on many others
PCs when I had a job fixing them.    So, I have good
knowledge and experience with such things.

 HDs are the most sensitive to heat.   The heads are placed very
close to the surface of the platters.  I Believe if the metal heats up,
it will expand...and thus the heads might scrape the surface of the
platters... which will  wear and destroy them. 

 CPUs and other small electronics are also prone to malfunctions
and problems from excess heat..  I believe their traces are so close together,
that if they expand, it causes small shorts.   

[RandyT]

I don't know about modern cabinets, but I have never seen a cooling fan in a classic cab.  I wouldn't think the noise of 50 fans running in one room would be the best atmosphere for customers, not to mention the added maintenance headaches.

My Defender didn't have a fan.  It simply had a grated opening that spanned the width of the back at the very bottom.  It had a similar opening at the top-back.  It used 100% convection cooling.

One thing to keep in mind is that it's not easy to force more volume into an enclosed space than you have the means to expel.  You can't significantly "pressurize" a cabinet with a dinky little fan, so make sure your intake and exhaust ports are large enough to allow the movement of air you desire.  This is why they were so large on the Defender (and probably every other cabinet)  Multiple vents on either / both ends of your cooling path will help this, just place them where they will do the most good.  IOW, don't put an exhaust right near an intake, rather create and intelligent cooling path like your PC has.  Nobody really thinks those fans in your PC case are placed randomly, do they? 

In the FWIW department, very few PC cooling arrangements compare to just leaving a side off of your case.  It's ugly and there are more dust issues, but no problems getting cooler room-air to the components.  Usually, the smaller the area, the more rapidly it will heat up.  So if anyone is considering it, don't put a PC case inside your cab.  Mount the components to take advantage of the space and don't try stacking hard drives tightly together.   And most importantly, make sure there is a vent in your cab that will allow cooler outside air to be pulled past the components, just like your PC case would have attempted to do.  The fan on your processor doesn't do any good if it's just recycling hot air back at the heatsink.

RandyT