Author Topic: x-arcade...regretting every minute of it... (Read 9280 times)

severdhed · « **on:** June 22, 2007, 12:13:04 am »

a few years ago, i purchased an x-arcade 2 player unit, mainly for fighting games on the xbox and dreamcast. i used it alot for the first 2 weeks, then it got packed away in its box. then about a year or so ago, i pulled it out of the attic and decided i was going to use it on a pc with MAME. this went on a for a few days, then i decided i wanted to build a dedicated mame cabinet. i found an empty cabinet and got it all set up and made a brace for the x-arcade, but i still wasnt happy....so i finally decided to take the x-arcade apart and build my own panel. this turned out to be a wiring nightmare.

i didnt want to destroy the x-arcade in case i wanted to put it back in it's original enclosure...so i had to make dozens of wire extensions because the wires are very short. this involved alot of wire and crimping on connectors. took forever and looks horrible, but it works.

well, time went by, and today i started changing some things on my control panel. adding a few buttons here and there, i put it back together only to have alot of really strange problems...some of my buttons were acting like some of the other buttons...and this is when i came to the horrible realization that in the world of x-arcade... ground isnt always ground.

instead of extending all of the ground wires, i was just tapping into grounds that were close by, but this doesnt work. suddenly, buttons are identical to other buttons instead of being unique.

the x-arcade circuitboard is strange. the buttons are divided into groups of 4. there are a bunch of 5pin wire harnesses. each one has it's own ground for that group of buttons..but if you dont use the right one, things get all screwed up.

so, to make a long story short...i have put so much time and effort into getting the x-arcade to work with my custom panel, and have run into so many obstacles..that it really wasnt worth the money i saved by not buying a real keyboard encoder.

i guess i'll just have to save up for an ipac or a keywiz or something....

just please take my advice, if you are building your own panel, dont use an x-arcade...you will end up regretting it if you do

NickG · « **Reply #1 on:** June 22, 2007, 01:02:01 am »

I agree, the pcb is retarded for building your own controller. Yet, if you wish to connect your controller to many devices the x-arcade is an easily attainable option. I found a more versatile PIC-based DIY option today while browsing around at Makezine. It looks like a good project and worthy of learning how to program a PIC. (I have never messed around with one before.) It seems the DIYer's on Shoryuken.com have set this up for more consoles than the X-arcade. I may get into this if the X-arcade people don't make adapters for the latest consoles by the time I get around to buying them. Dreamcast and Xbox don't seem to be on the list at first glance however, so controller hacking and custom discrete connectors may stilll be my best option for cross format compatibility.

Malenko · « **Reply #2 on:** June 22, 2007, 08:51:09 am »

so buy an Ipac2 or something and just use the cherries and buttons and sticks from the Xarcade.

My XArcade is out of commission, the circuit board got destroyed when I moved, wanna sell me yours?

severdhed · « **Reply #3 on:** June 22, 2007, 09:45:13 am »

the x-arcade is great for console use, and even for pc use, as long as you dont want to open it up and change anything on it. personally i think the controls are too close together for 2 adults to use.

i had a dreamcast in my cabinet for a while, but the only game i ever played was ikaruga...and it seemed silly to have all that extra crap to deal with for just one game. so now I could easily get away with an ipac or something. if i do end up getting real encoder, i will put the x-arcade back together and use it with my consoles. i really hope they get around to making a xbox 360 adaptor before too long.

alot of people seem to like to bash the x-arcade sticks and buttons, but i dont have a problem with them. I think they work/feel fine and for the price, you can't beat them. If i do end up getting an ipac, i plan on ordering a set of sticks and buttons from x-arcade. they might not be the highest quality, but when you can get 2 8-way sticks and 20 buttons with switches all for $30...sounds like a good deal to me.

btp2k2 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 22, 2007, 03:50:12 pm »

The sticks and buttons are fine, what I would STRONGLY recommend is throwing out the X-Arcade microswitches and replacing them with cherries.

The stock X-Arcade switches are way too loud and have a funny push to them....they are too tight or something.

ark_ader · « **Reply #5 on:** June 22, 2007, 04:47:08 pm »

I agree cherries are the way to go. I replaced nearly all of them and the buttons are sooo much quieter.

Thanks for advising of your X Arcade conversion nightmare, as I was thinking of doing the same. I have seen the X Arcade go for £35 on ebay, and thought it would be cool to convert one (I'm thinking of attempting Knieval's Woody) for a new project, but if it is a pain in the

then I wont bother.

In anycase I thought of just squaring off the controller box and fit it into a panel, but where does the spinner and trackball go... So I totally agree with your analysis, its such a shame I invested in a X Arcade all the adaptors which going to a Keywiz would hurt a bit.

Do you think Randy will make a X Arcade Killer board?

Wouldn't hurt to ask him....

btp2k2 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 22, 2007, 05:08:37 pm »

ark_ader, for the record....I have done the same as severdhed with my 2-player X-Arcade unit, as well as their trackball unit.

I took the unit apart and used the parts in a panel of my own design. The board was running a MAME cabinet for awhile before I decided to turn it into a 4-player unit. It is now running a dedicated Dreamcast cabinet, again using a panel of my own creation. I never had any trouble with wire length, if you mount the board just above the player 2 stick, there is plenty of length in the wire for a 25 inch panel. I have used this board and the MiniPac, and due the nicely done documentation on the X-Arcade website, I found I had an easier time wiring it then I did with the MiniPac. Of course, now that I am used to wiring them, the Mini is great....

Here is the project announcement thread for the Dreamcast cabinet I made....http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66695.0

That CP uses an X-Arcade board with no additional wiring in the harness. There is still slack in the wires too, I probably could have gone another 1 1/2 to 2 inches

ark_ader · « **Reply #7 on:** June 22, 2007, 05:40:25 pm »

Looks really good.

You have convinced me to get a circular saw and nail gun.

Now I just need to rob a bank....

hng · « **Reply #8 on:** June 22, 2007, 09:10:47 pm »

I'm in the middle of swapping an X-Arcade dual into a custom panel. I was able to connect one side without adding extensions, so I'll just have to do extensions for the other side. (CP is about 30inches)

Everything looks pretty straightforward. The only possible problem I can see is that some colors are used multiple times. Thats bound to happen when you have 28 connections to make, but are only using a pallet of 7 or 8 colors. The grounds seemed pretty simple... usually chains of 4 or 5 switches per ground wire.

Of course, I haven't done anything to my panel in almost a week, and I haven't verified that any of it works, so perhaps I'm being overly optimistic.

If you want, I might be able to put together a color code chart / diagram for you.

severdhed · « **Reply #9 on:** June 22, 2007, 09:21:21 pm »

i got mine straightened out...i just wish i knew that it mattered which ground you use for which button..would have saved me some time.

extending all those wires is a pain in the butt also. my panel is also 30 inches, so i had to extend the one side. plus, i added a 4 way stick with 2 buttons that are wired in parallel with player 1..so that just made things even more fun

NickG · « **Reply #10 on:** June 22, 2007, 09:23:37 pm »

^^ There is a color coded wiring diagram on the X-arcade site, also, BTW

Naru · « **Reply #11 on:** June 22, 2007, 09:36:12 pm »

I had the same problem with the x-arcade encoder.
Lengthened the wires started getting
the same keystroke on different buttons.
If your using the usb connector for the x-arcade
then plugging in a ps2 keyboard into the x-arcade encoder
will fix this problem.
I busted a ps2 keyboard open and took out
the circuit board with the ps2 connector
and added that to the rest of my electronics
and plugged it in. The X-arcade buttons register
correctly now.

hng · « **Reply #12 on:** June 22, 2007, 09:55:38 pm »

Quote from: NickG on June 22, 2007, 09:23:37 pm

^^ There is a color coded wiring diagram on the X-arcade site, also, BTW

That will definitely come in handy real soon.

But they should have done it upside down. You don't wire a CP by looking at the top, you look at the bottom. sure you can convert it in your head, but the probability of messing some stuff up is real high.

smackifilia · « **Reply #13 on:** June 22, 2007, 09:57:18 pm »

Awww man, I hate to hear this. I have the X-arcade dual stick on the way for my first ever MAME cabinet and was very scared that the one and two player will be too close. Its got the 30-day money back guarantee, but it may have to do for a while though...I'm on a very tight budget. Thanks for the info on the wiring though, it will probably come in real handy some day.

btp2k2 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 22, 2007, 11:31:54 pm »

Quote from: severdhed on June 22, 2007, 09:21:21 pm

i got mine straightened out...i just wish i knew that it mattered which ground you use for which button..would have saved me some time.

It doesn't matter....On my DC cab, there is no rhyme nor reason to where my ground went....heck on some occasions I didn't even use a ground. Because I only made a 6 button layout and not an 8, a couple of the ground connections on the harness were not used at all...that made no difference at all.

However, the ground post in the X-Arcade microswitches are flipped....so the post you would normally ground a Red Cherry switch is where the NO connection would go and the post your NO connection would normally go on is your ground. If that made any sense at all....it made sense in my mind if that counts for anything....

severdhed · « **Reply #15 on:** June 22, 2007, 11:51:37 pm »

then i guess you got lucky. my problem was that when i had a button connected to wire harness 2, and I used a ground from harness 3, that button registered exactly the same as one of the buttons from harness 3...as soon as i switched the ground back to the one from harness 2, it started working like normal. it is connected via the ps2 port, and there is a ps2 keybaord attached to the passthrough port on the x-arcade.

as for smackifilia, you could probably return it if you dont like it. were you planning on gutting it and building your own panel? or just mounting it to the cabinet? my personal opinion is that the controls are way too close together for two adults to use at the same time. my friends and I were always bumping elbows when we tried to use it.

building your own panel is not that hard, and not that expensive. i built mine out of pine and MDF, total cost for the wood was around $30. you could pick up an ipac or keywiz for around $40...and if you are on a budget...you can get the 2 joysticks and 20 buttons from xgaming for $30. got a piece of plexiglass at home depot for $9. thats $109, plus shipping, and some wire and crimp on connectors. so it comes in right around the same price as an x-arcade 2 player unit. plus gives you the flexibilty to have it just the way you want it. I made my panel 12" by 30" there is plenty of room for two players. I am in the process right now of changing it a bit (removed the trackball and spinner that i never used and installed the 4way stick in a usable place). i just need to cut the button holes in the plexi and round over the edges with the router.

btp2k2 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 23, 2007, 12:01:56 am »

Ah...I think I got what you were doing now....Forgive me if I misconstrue what you are saying....but if I understand you correctly, you were trying to use a ground wire from harness A to go to a button wired on harness B? If that is the case, then you are correct...that will not work. They have to be on the same harness.

And to further emphasize the advice severdhed gave about the buttons and joysticks....I have to agree, the X-Arcade buttons and sticks are a very good deal and good quality as well. The sticks are essentially Happ Competition Sticks rebadged with "X-Arcade", the buttons are a little different, but not much. As I mentioned earlier...I would strongly recommend switching out the microswitches though. But that is an upgrade you can do later. If the stuff wasn't built right, they wouldn't put a lifetime guarantee on it

smackifilia · « **Reply #17 on:** June 23, 2007, 12:20:55 am »

I had planned on mounting it to the cabinet. Not like most of them are with the lip of the X-arcade sitting on top, I think that looks gross. I had planned to mount it in there with the top of the X-arcade flush with the rest of the wood on the panel. And then later on possibly dissecting it and using those parts for maybe a 4-player or something. Or anything to get rid of that big fat X, I have a feeling i'm not gonna like that.

ark_ader · « **Reply #18 on:** June 24, 2007, 06:50:37 pm »

While we are on the subject, is there any pre drawn templates that will wotk with the X Arcade Original Two Player Control Panel?

I guess one could just trace it and cut out the holes.

I hate that big X too.

btp2k2 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 24, 2007, 06:53:45 pm »

You should be able to remove the t molding around the panel and take off that overlay. It will probably be on pretty good, just get a little chisel or something and start on a corner....those overlays are pretty strong, so you won't have to worry about ripping.

Once you get it off, you can replace it with an overlay of your liking, as well as change the t-molding if you want.

hng · « **Reply #20 on:** June 24, 2007, 07:04:48 pm »

why even bother removing the overlay? Sounds like you'd just be opening up a can of worms. Just put a new one on directly over it.

But if you tried removing it, and it damaged the top really bad, I'm sure I could sell you my empty case.

I spent part of today working on my wiring. Turns out I only had a couple of butt connectors at home. I toyed with the idea of actually leaving my house to pick some up, but I figured I'd just pillage my shop tomorrow.

I did however connect my half wired CP... It really makes a big difference what position the 5-way switch is in. Since I don't plan on programming, I had disconnected the program button, and was unaware of the fact that you have to press it to switch modes. Of course since I ripped the LED wires out of the old case, there was no hint that I was in program mode... or something.

Aside from not being in the right mode, and crossing the wires on P1 Start and P1 Coin-Up, everything seems to be working okay.

btp2k2 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 24, 2007, 11:37:51 pm »

It's really not that hard at all. Comes off very easily once you get a corner off.

In regards to placing a new overlay on top of the old....it works so so, but expect to have lots of bubbles and peel ups on the corners....it just doesn't stick right

severdhed · « **Reply #22 on:** June 25, 2007, 08:09:34 pm »

well, after alot of messing around with wiring, i successfully got my new control panel assembled and it even works!!!. i have two buttons i dont know what to do with now (they used to be mouse buttons before i removed the trackball) i am out of inputs on my x-arcade encoder though. I am debating on using them as coin buttons, but i kinda like being forced to use the actual coin slots.

i learned alot during this build...

1. those flat drill bits that work so well for cutting button holes in wood...dont work so well for cutting the button holes in the plexi. (this is my first control panel with plexi). i cracked the plexi around the one hole, but it isnt that noticable so i'll keep using it this way for a while. at least i had the dremel for the rest of them.

2. if you paint job looks like crap, it will still look like crap through the plexi. I didnt have the cash for a control panel overlay, so i just painted the wood black. i should have sanded more before painting. so, instead of redoing it..i found that painting the back of the plexiglass gives you a really nice look. i painted it black also, but i am thinking of trying a different color the next time to brighten up the cabinet a bit.

oh, and on a side note..it isnt x-arcade related..but i picked up a craftsman smart switch today at sears for $20...and I love it. I used to have a toggle switch on the top of the cabinet to turn my marquee light and speakers on, but now when i power up the PC (using a standard arcade button on the top of the cabinet) the smart switch sends power to the light and speakers...it works great. i would highly recommend it to anyone who doesnt want to spend the money on a smart strip.

i guess i should go clean up my mess...and then design new artwork for MALA since it doesnt match my control panel anymore.

PsychoAU · « **Reply #23 on:** June 25, 2007, 10:08:01 pm »

Quote from: severdhed on June 25, 2007, 08:09:34 pm

oh, and on a side note..it isnt x-arcade related..but i picked up a craftsman smart switch today at sears for $20...and I love it. I used to have a toggle switch on the top of the cabinet to turn my marquee light and speakers on, but now when i power up the PC (using a standard arcade button on the top of the cabinet) the smart switch sends power to the light and speakers...it works great. i would highly recommend it to anyone who doesnt want to spend the money on a smart strip.

Do you possibly have a link to a picture of one of these? I have heard about them but can't find them around here. Maybe I am just looking for the wrong thing. It would be a bonus if you had a link to it on the Sears website...

severdhed · « **Reply #24 on:** June 25, 2007, 10:13:31 pm »

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?pid=00924031000&vertical=Sears&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes

i couldnt find them either, but i asked a guy and he knew right where they were...

btp2k2 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 26, 2007, 01:37:09 am »

If only they had one with another socket....I have monitor/light/speakers/CPU....

severdhed · « **Reply #26 on:** June 26, 2007, 10:07:44 am »

use a power strip...

my marquee light and speakers are plugged into a power strip that sits in the top part of my cabinet. i plugged that strip into one of the switched plugs on the auto switch and it works fine. i dont have my monitor plugged into it at this time, since it goes into power save mode when it doesnt detect a signal..but i am thinking of trying it.

severdhed · « **Reply #27 on:** June 26, 2007, 09:35:03 pm »

well, here is a pic of my new panel, fully functional, even though it is an x-arcade. the pic is kinda crappy, but it is hard to take a pic of an all black panel with mostly black controls and have it turn out good. plus my monitor on my pc is really dim, so it may look better for you than it does for me.

hng · « **Reply #28 on:** June 26, 2007, 10:03:52 pm »

I just finished wiring mine up... and all of the x-arcade stuff works. Now I just have to figure out how to get my trackball working.

A quick tip about lengthening the wires, in case anybody else is going to try it: Don't try to do it wire-by-wire, in place. Disconnect the harness from the board, and cut through all 5 wires at once. Then just use butt connectors to splice in about 6-8 inches of extra wire. If you try to add on to the end using male spades, you'll have a hard time managing your colors. Also, if you try to do it wire-by-wire in place, you'll have no room to work. Its a trap I alway get into when I try to make quick harness repairs at work... and no matter how many times I tell myself to do it the right way, I always try to take a shortcut, and it ends up making a mess, or wasting time.

severdhed · « **Reply #29 on:** June 26, 2007, 10:13:29 pm »

i used spade connectors to extend mine, because i didnt want to destroy the original wiring. at first i tried to find replacement connectors so i could make my own harnesses, but i didnt have much luck with that. I still think eventually i am going to get a real encoder, and put the x-arcade back together...or even better, build a second cabinet...but i dont know if the wife will go for that one.

hng · « **Reply #30 on:** June 26, 2007, 10:29:52 pm »

I spent over an hour yesterday going through every connector bin at micro center trying to find something, anything even, that i could use to just make a simple "extension cord".

As usual, I spent more time trying to figure out a shortcut, than doing the actual work.

I wouldn't exactly say that splicing in new wire is "ruining" the harness. I think of it as a "permanent solution".

If I was to build another CP, I probably would not start with an X-Arcade. But, considering I bought the X-Arcade so I could easily try mame before wasting too much time, I still think an X-Arcade is a good low cost way to get into the hobby.

btp2k2 · « **Reply #31 on:** June 27, 2007, 03:48:37 am »

X-Arcade is an excellent introduction into the hobby....I know that is how I got introduced to doing cabinets. I had used MAME for a long time (I think .30 was my first version), but it wasn't until my wife bought me an X-Arcade for fathers day a couple years ago that I really got hooked on it.

Some guys try and hide their affairs with the secretary, other guys try to hide their 1000 dollara week gambling habit, or coke problem....me? I am trying to find a way to convince my wife that I need to build just "one" more cabinet....

severdhed · « **Reply #32 on:** June 27, 2007, 09:24:09 am »

i know what you mean. i dont want anyone to take my posts the wrong way. if it wasnt for my x-arcade, i probably wouldnt have a mame cabinet today. i have used mame for many years as well. it was because i had an x-arcade that i decided to build a cabinet in the first place. it is great for what it is..a stand alone joystick that draws in people to this hobby. and as far as I know, the only encoder that works with the dreamcast.

i dont want to discourage people from buying an x-arcade...they are great. it is just that there are much better options if you are building your own control panel


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