A few newb questions

[NotSoSuperMario]

My apologies in advance if I just didn't read far enough to find the answers in the faq.

I'm doing the preliminary work to open a coffee shop with some arcade machines in the next year or so, and one of my friends recommended building my own cabinets as a cheaper alternative, and pointed me here. So basically my questions are thus:

Can I legally set up my own coin-op arcade machines? Do I just need to buy the cartridge for the cabinet to be allowed to run it on a PC? Do I need the genuine hardware to play it? Is there any sort of special licensing I need to investigate?

How practical is making a coin-op DIY cabinet? Is it worth the effort at all? Is there any way I can get a coin slot to accept both quarters and tokens? (Give out a free token with each drink as a promo.)

Is this worthwhile? Should I just buy arcade machines instead? I know I'll have to buy Virtual-On and DDR. Where's a good place to buy the deluxe-machines, anyway? I found one Virtual-On 2 already, but all the DDRs I can find are Supernova and my partner has expressed her distaste for that one.

Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask.

Edited 'cause I can't spell.

[Zebidee]

You'd get yourself in a whole heap of legal trouble.  Adding coin mechs wouldn't be good for the emulation community, as it could raise legal questions about what we do for reasons of fun and historical preservation.

Easier for you to talk to your local arcade games operator about some legal coin-op machines for your coffee shop.  Ask about 48-in-1 and 400-in-1 systems in a Cocktail cabinet.

[Stobe]

Also, check to see if there are any auctions coming nearby.  You could arguably get a handful of games at auction cheaper than you could build them.

And yes, you can have token/quarter mechs.  I got some from ArcadeNerd here, and they work great.

-Stobe

[Joystick Jerk]

Yeah, for a coffee shop, you'd be better off just buying some used units. If we say that it takes about $1500 to build a decent MAME cab, you could probably buy ten used cabs if you go to an auction. Get some Street Fighter 2's, maybe a Lethal Enforcers, and perhaps a few old-school cocktails with Pac-Man and Galaga.

Now, to be devils advocate for a minute, is this going to be a coffee shop for gamers and people into retro nostalgia stuff like gaming, or the general public at large? If it's the latter, game cabs don't really fit in with the atmosphere of a modern, trendy coffeeshop. People come to relax and chat, in a quiet atmosphere. Arcade cabs booping and beeping in the background will drive a lot of people away except the hardcore.

Now if it is a coffeeshop for the gamer crowd, well then GAME ON! I only wish we had something like this where I live. The only arcade I even know of in the area is at a mall a fair distance away, and it's filled with mostly DDR and other rhythm games from japan I've never heard of. Bleah, no thanks.

[Tiger-Heli]

I don't have all the legal answers and most of it has been covered by others.

Can I legally set up my own coin-op arcade machines?  Do I need the genuine hardware to play it? Is there any sort of special licensing I need to investigate?

Legally set up own coin-op arcade machines - probably, you need to look into business license restrictions, etc.  Also, the machines usually have tax stickers on them, so you need to look into that, not sure how that works out.

Do I just need to buy the cartridge for the cabinet to be allowed to run it on a PC?  How practical is making a coin-op DIY cabinet? Is it worth the effort at all?

We need to define some terms here . . .

Running the game in your own cabinet on a PC requires an emulator and the rom image on the PC's hard-drive.  It does not require any kind of cartridge.  Charging to play the machine is a violation of the MAME software license.  Having the machine in a commercial environment on free-play, would be considered an incentive to the business and thus a violation of the MAME software license.  Non-MAME emulators are less restrictive, but having the rom image on the machine is a violation of the original arcade manufacturer's (Midway, Gottlieb, Sega, etc.) copyright (IMHO, whether or not you also own the PCB).  Currently, the arcade manufacturer's are for the most part looking the other way on private usage of ROM images, and we would like this to continue.  Commercial PC cabs could end this.

48-in-1 and 400-in-1 arcade boards in your own cabinet are a gray area.  I think the boards use some portion of MAME code and roms, but they are made overseas, so enforcing US copyright code is harder, and they are sold commercially, so they are more legal than setting up a PC in the cabinet.  (Well, not more legal, but you personally are probably safer from direct prosecution).

Putting a dedicated board (say Pac-Man) in your scratch-built cabinet should be legal, but arcade games often sell at auction for $150-$500, and it will likely cost you almost that much for the wood, before you figure in the controls, monitor, marquee, etc.

Buying genuine games is likely your best option.

[knave]

Combining some of the above options is also a viable choice.  If it were my coffee shop, I would buy some old cabinets either from an auction or eBay or CL wherever.

From that point it's not a huge amount of work or expense to buy original PCB's(game boards) and fit them into your used cabinets.

I think $50-$100 for the cab, $30-$50 for the game PCB, and lets say $40-$50 for new controls etc... perhaps add some paint other supplies.

~$200 per game cabinet give or take.  This assumes you can find cabs with working monitors.  If not you can find new 19" arcade monitors for ~$150-200. depending on where you look.

If you're not feeling all that handy I suggest upping your budget and spending up to $500 on cabs that work 100% that you want. Keep in mind that on location a good cab can earn this back in no time.

[shardian]

Your best bet is to just have a vendor put some machines in for you. No upfront cost, no maintenance costs,no tax sticker, you just collect your funds when he comes to empty the machines.

[knave]

That is the easiest solution.  But if you pay $500 for a cab, even a so-so cab can pay for itself in a month or two and then you get all the cash...not just half or whatever your percentage is...you also can play for free...

[CheffoJeffo]

That is the easiest solution.  But if you pay $500 for a cab, even a so-so cab can pay for itself in a month or two and then you get all the cash...not just half or whatever your percentage is...you also can play for free...

 

[shardian]

That is the easiest solution.  But if you pay $500 for a cab, even a so-so cab can pay for itself in a month or two and then you get all the cash

Well around here, we aren't living in the 1980's. Arcade machines in mom'n'pop stores don't pull in $500/month.

[RayB]

Open the yellow pages, and look under "Amusement".

[knave]

Well around here, we aren't living in the 1980's. Arcade machines in mom'n'pop stores don't pull in $500/month.

You're right, I got a bit carried away, When I was last involved in a real arcade it was not uncommon for a popular game like Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat to pull $300 a week so I was pretty liberal with my estimate considering current trends.  But It would pay for itself eventually.  And the owner can still play for free! 

[Spaz Monkey]

but with the vendor taking care of the machines, you don't have to worry out maint, repairs, and upgrades.  In addition, you won't have to "buy" new games.

[shardian]

While out of town a few weeks ago, I stopped at a local pizza place in which I saw a few pins sitting. After playing for a while and talking with the owner, he apparently is a pinhead and has a local amusement supplier keep a few pins in his place at all times. He is friendly with the operator, so the machines are kept in working order in a timely manner. He also gets a new pin every once in a while when he requests it. IMO, that is definitely the way to go.

[knave]

That would be a sweet deal.

On the other end of the spectrum I've seen good Cabs yanked out and crappy ones placed in with little say from the buisness owner.  It really depends on if you can find a good vendor. 

In any case I was just saying what I would do.  I have three cabs in my garage anyway so If I had a business I'd buy and maintain them myself.  Shoot, then I could write them off! (and they'd earn a little change.) 

[miles2912]

Or go the other direction with this and make a MAME cab and set it for

A)  Free play.  Cool draw for a Coffee house - make a new game each day

B)  Token play and get a free token with every cup of coffee.

The later is flirting with the legal ROM issues.  Honestly the cheapest solution is to get a used cab at auction and go from there...

Don

[Tiger-Heli]

Or go the other direction with this and make a MAME cab and set it for
A)  Free play.  Cool draw for a Coffee house - make a new game each day
B)  Token play and get a free token with every cup of coffee.
The later is flirting with the legal ROM issues.  Honestly the cheapest solution is to get a used cab at auction and go from there...
Don

So is the former.

Charging to play the machine is a violation of the MAME software license.  Having the machine in a commercial environment on free-play, would be considered an incentive to the business and thus a violation of the MAME software license.

IANAL, nor can I represent MAMEDev's stance on this, but if you were to ask on MAME General (or if Aaron Giles wants to chime in, I'd lay money that is the response you would get.

IMHO - if you charge 25 cents to play the machine, or if the machine is on free-play, but you sell 150 additional cups of coffee each day solely b/c the machine is on free play, you made the profit on 150 cups b/c of MAME, thus using the cab for commercial gain, thus violating the MAME license.

[NotSoSuperMario]

Thanks for the replies all  I thought it'd be pretty legally murky, but I'm doing my best to keep an open mind and look at all possibilities.

Basically, my friend and I are going to open up a Bubble Tea shop with some arcade machines. We'll expand to computers and consoles eventually (if it prooves profitable of course) but I'm making it clear that we need to eat the elephant one bite at a time. My partner doesn't want any used games, which I think is a bit unreasonable if they're that much cheaper - $500 used or $3000 new, 90% of the wear and tear will be on the buttons and joysticks, and how many of those can I buy for the $2500 difference?

The one thing that's making me reluctant to have someone else provide machines is that we're aiming to have only the best of the best from the last 20 years. Pac Man, Tetris, Virtual-On, Metal Slug. I don't want XXXtreme Sea Bass RPG, y'know? And I don't know how much control I'd have over what games were installed. Maybe for the pinball machines, or at least some of them. Also, would a vendor be offended if we had some of his games, some of ours?

Ahh decisions, decisions.