hooking two xboxes with routers

[fredster]

Has anyone successfully hooked two xboxes together in system link using only two wireless routers?

I want to put one in one room and one accross the house.  I want to use a couple of belkin routers, and nothing else.

The routers cost like $40 bucks each.  One wireless link for an Xbox 360 is $100 bucks.

I get the IP to address, then I get to the DNS server and I don't have one.

I don't have the full net going on here. I have dialup.  (don't make fun, it isn't nice). 

Anybody ever configure this before? Or know somebody who did?

[shmokes]

I have dialup.

LMAO   

[thennomeking]

Well one will have to be a router, the other setup as a bridge - which I dont believe is possible.  Do you have a brand name in mind?  It could be possible, but odds are it will require a good bit of modification and a crossover cable.

[fredster]

One of them with a twisted pair cable?

I set one up as a bridge and it gave out the IP addresses.  I set the other up as an access point.

I got them to get the IP's okay.  They were good with that.  IP and gateway were good.  But then it wanted a DNS before it went on.

What kind of modifications?  Put the twisted pair cable on the one that's an access point?

[shmokes]

It's worth noting that when access points are set up in bridge mode, it is generally not referring to an ethernet bridge (which is what thennomeking is talking about).  It's talking about connecting a wireless network to a larger, wired network, or sometimes just extending the range of a network by having the bridge act as a repeater of sorts.  I know that I had an access point that could be set up as a bridge, but it could not to basic ethernet to wireless bridging, which is what you want.

[ChadTower]

One of them with a twisted pair cable?

FWIW, every network cable you're dealing with is twisted pair.  The term you're looking for is a crossover cable.  Twisted pair just refers to the configuration of the 8 wires inside the cat5/6 style sheath.  You get 4 sets of 2 individual wires, twisted in pairs.  A crossover cable is the same way but happens to have two conductors connected to different plug contacts on each end, swapped, since the client side network jack has a different pinout than a network device like a router.  You need the crossover cable when directly connecting two client devices without a network device in between.

Just pointing that out in case you ask elsewhere for advice, that could be a point of confusion.

[SirPoonga]

It sounds like it is working but it is a xbox issue.  Are you saying it is looking for a dns?  If you cancel out do you still have ip addresses?  Try specifying the router's ip as the dns server.

If they are both getting IPs from one router then they should be able to talk to each other.

[thennomeking]

shmokes hit what I was talking about on the head, damn my lack of time before work yet my desire to comment.

The modification that I alluded to Ive only read about, but with certain parts soldered onto the board, and an external device, apparently you can convert a router or access point to a bridge - granted one mistake and youve bricked it.  Let me see if I can drag that one out again.  Though it is probably cheaper, and a hell of alot easier, to just buy a bridge.

[Malacus]

how about looking at whatever wireless router (you can usually find them for free after rebate on cheaper ones, check dealnews.com) and an older Linksys WGA11B Game Adapter (check ebay) they're generally around 30$ and I think would do exactly what you wanted it to, though, IIRC, they need to be setup on a PC first.

-Mal

[ChadTower]

Hot deal on D-Link DGL-3420 108g Gaming Adapter, be fast.

[shmokes]

$41 with free shipping.  That is a good deal.

I'd be hesitant to use that WGA11B that Malacus mentioned cos I do so much video streaming on my box, and I figure the more bandwidth I have available to me the better.  That box will only use 802.11B.  That one chad linked to is 802.11G and, seriously, $40 bucks is a good deal.

[ChadTower]

Agreed.  For internal video streaming, B would cause issues from time to time.  For a person just looking to game online, no XBMC or the like, B is more than fast enough.    The bottleneck there would be the internet connection, not the Xbox NIC.

[Malacus]

My point was more looking at a game adapter than that specific one, but i guess i didnt really SAY that...

Though it doesnt really sound like you'll be using it for XBMC, just go with whatever will work for you.

If you WOULD use one for XBMC, you could just make sure to put THAT box on the router end. 

and...
Dial-Up?
Who uses that?
Aside from my Step-Grandmother-in-Law...
/i keeeed!

-Mal

[ChadTower]

fredster lives way up in the mountains of Tennessee.  He had to build his Xbox out of old bullet casings and MRE packaging.  That's why he uses dialup.

[Malacus]

...and MRE packaging.

the packaging? dont tell me he ate those things!   

-mal

[fredster]

It sounds like it is working but it is a xbox issue.  Are you saying it is looking for a dns?  If you cancel out do you still have ip addresses?  Try specifying the router's ip as the dns server.

If they are both getting IPs from one router then they should be able to talk to each other.

That I didn't try.  I will give it a shot.

The belkin is a wireless G for $40 at walmart. I tried setting it for B just for S&G's.

But don't people do this? I mean, what happens when you buy the actual wireless thingie for these that Microsoft makes?  Can't you just plug that in and it goes?

I am fearing that the wireless connection at the USB port has different default software than the ethernet connector I have.  The wireless stock part might have a different software protocol.

I do appreciate all of your help though fellas.  I will advise. I have been seriously busy at work lately and I haven't caught up with my layabout ways.

And yes Chad, I have a crossover cable I used to use for this.  But I didn't think it would work with the router.  I used one router as a connector by just plugging the two together in port 1 and 2 of the router.  But I was getting "smart" and trying to expound upon that by buying an identical belkin wireless router and seeing if I could just pretent there was a wire connecting the two.

I didn't figure a crossover cable would work with the router.

[SirPoonga]

But don't people do this? I mean, what happens when you buy the actual wireless thingie for these that Microsoft makes?  Can't you just plug that in and it goes?

Same as if you did this with a PC.  If you plugged a wireless bridge into the ethernet port on your pc the pc isn't going to know you are using a bridge.  Since you plugged into wired it will think it is wired.  But then if you plug in a wireless adapter via usb it knows it is a wireless adapter.

If you put one of your routers into bridge mode this should work.  Your gateway router should see it as if it were a normal wireless device trying to use it.

[ChadTower]

Half your problem is Belkin.  I've tried a few of their networking products and let's just say they are about as user friendly as a glass of e coli flavored with salmonella.

[slycrel]

You should be able to get this to work with one of the routers in bridging mode.  All that really means is that it's not the master.  I basically do this at home already, but I use a wireless bridge, which is a box with a ethernet plug and an antenna.  It's job is to bridge between wireless and ethernet, and pretty much all of the recent routers out there can do this as well.

Beware copying large files -- you're better off using the crossover cable.  =)

[shmokes]

Okay.  I'm going to say this one last time.  "Wireless bridge" can mean a variety of different things.  Why would Belkin sell a $40 router that could act as a standard wireless ethernet bridge, and then turn around and sell a standalone wireless ethernet bridge that can ONLY do ethernet bridging, for 50%-100% more?  Your routers, seriously, are probably not capable of doing what you're trying to make them do.  They may me.  But wireless routers I have used with a "bridge" mode are not talking about acting as an ethernet bridge with a single device.  They are ether talking about wirelessly extending an existing wired network, or acting as a repeater for another access point within range.

I've worked with a lot of hardware.  I cannot say that it is absolutely not capable of doubling as a wireless ethernet bridge, but I'm pretty damned sure.

[slycrel]

You're right -- there are a lot of definitions.

All he needs is to wirelessly extend his network.  Any basic wireless router should be able to do that at this point and as mentioned above he doesn't need to purchase anything else.

[shmokes]

That's not all he needs to do.  He needs something to convert the ethernet port on his Xbox into WiFi.  His router can be plugged into a wired network in bridge mode and allow a WIRELESS device to then access that wired network as though it were plugged into it with an ethernet cord.  But it (most likely) cannot allow a WIRED device to connect with a wireless network, which is what he needs.

[slycrel]

I think we're talking semantics here, but I could be wrong.

Both xboxes are wired to two different wireless routers.

You should be able to set the local network on one router to be the same as the other router's wireless network and flip the switch/setting/whatever which allows it to act as a wireless extender.  This would allow the built-in switch/hub/whatever for wired connections to work across the wireless network.  That's all I'm saying.  It's possible I'm not saying it in a plain way, and it's also possible I'm incorrect, but as I understand it that should be possible.

[shmokes]

No, we're talking about two very different things (opposite things, in fact), but I'm just not explaining it well.. 

The router will extend the wired network wirelessly, meaning that wireless devices can connect to the wired network that is plugged into the router's ethernet hub, but it won't do the same thing in the opposite direction.  It won't connect to another wireless network and then give all of its wired devices access to that network.  For example, plugging a laptop's ethernet port into the hub on one of those routers would not be the same as putting a WiFi card in the laptops PCMCIA port. 

So, for example, I have an extensive wired network at work.  Every office has at least one ethernet data port, and each of those ports is wired back to the comm room where they are all plugged into ethernet switches.  If I take one of Fredster's routers and run an ethernet cable from the built-in hub to a data port on my wall, a bridge has been created.  Now laptops (or desktops for that matter) that are WiFi capable can connect to the wired network as though they had a physical cable plugged into it.  That is the type of bridging Fredster's router is capable of.  That is the type of activity it is talking about when it says it can act as a bridge. 

It cannot go in the other direction, however.  It might be able to act as a repeater -- receiving the wireless signal from another access point and retransmitting it, effectively doubling the range of the other access point, and this is also sometimes called wireless bridging -- but that is still only for wireless devices.  But it cannot bridge in the other direction, allowing ethernet devices to connect to a wireless network.  Or, rather, it probably cannot because almost no wireless routers can do that.  Once again, if it could do that, Belkin would be cannibalizing the market for their more expensive standalone ethernet bridges, which doesn't make a bit of sense from a business standpoint.

I understand exactly what you're saying, and the concept is sound.  What I am saying is that you are describing features that are found in wireless ethernet bridges and almost never found in wireless routers.  Perhaps it's only a matter of firmware and if Fredster can find a 3rd party hacked firmware enabling the feature he will be golden.  But as it stands I'd put money on it -- no matter how long he works at it, he will have no success.  His routers are not capable of that.  And, for hell's sake Fredster, how valuable is your time.  You can't tell me you haven't put $40 worth of work into this already and accomplished nothing but frustration.  Just get yourself a wireless ethernet bridge (only one -- the other Xbox will use the existing router) and be done with it.