Anatomy of a joystick? Looking for exploded-view diagrams/photos and specs.

[DarkBubble]

Before I start, I want to say that this is not for the purpose of a commercial venture.  I'm not ambitious enough to try to step into the ring with the engineers and parts dealers here on the forum.  Also, this is not a project announcement.  I need all the information I can get before I can go that far.

What I'm trying to locate are good exploded-view diagrams, photos, and specs of various brands of sticks.  Someone had brought up the possibility of making one's own components from scratch, and while they were dissuaded, the prospect of doing something like that myself has been burned into the back of my brain.  While the cost outweighs the practicality for most, the material and tools are available to me at little-to-no cost to me, and I like to do those "because I can" projects.  This is purely for me.

The reason I'm looking for specs and complete breakdowns of parts is because I want to be able to closely mimic the feel I'm used to with what I might build.  I want something that is more than a clunky conversation piece.  While I don't intend to build a duplicate of anything, I know that there's only so many ways to build a joystick, so it's not as if there's going to be some massive variance in design.

Any help would be appreciated.

[shardian]

http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/joysticks_amusement.htm

Click on any joystick, and then click the big grey "exploded view" button.

If you want to build your own joystick, have at it dude. Those kind of projects are kind of neat. Some people will get on you with the "why build when you can buy one for like $7?". DIY is what this hobby is about - though some of us take it a little farther than others.

[Ken Layton]

Yes, Happ Controls has diagrams of all their line of joysticks.

[DarkBubble]

I'd forgotten to mention that I'd checked Happ in the past.  For some reason, I didn't remember it being as descriptive or too low res to be useful.  I was probably sucking down beers while I was looking though.   Don't think that I don't appreciate it, because if I hadn't double-checked after responses from both of you, I'd have completely blown off Happ's pics.

If you want to build your own joystick, have at it dude. Those kind of projects are kind of neat. Some people will get on you with the "why build when you can buy one for like $7?". DIY is what this hobby is about - though some of us take it a little farther than others.

Yeah, I'd felt for the guy who had wanted to do so, because he got a lot of that.  Why anyone who goes to the lengths and expense that they do in order to put full-size arcade cabinets into their homes would bring up the subject of practicality is beyond me.   

If anyone's got similar info on Sanwa and Seimitsu, I'd greatly appreciate it too.

I'm really not wanting to mess with trying to machine stainless steel for a stick.  Galvanized steel should be fine, as long as it's cleaned properly before painting, right?

[crashwg]

Galvanized steel should be fine, as long as it's cleaned properly before painting, right?

Galvanization is only a thin coating on the outside of the metal.  Once you cut through that you just have mild steel which is pretty average when it comes to machining...  Of course once you take off the galvanized layer, what you have left will be a rust magnet so keep it oiled until you paint it and make sure you paint it well.

I must agree with the statement of "why build when you can buy one for like $7?" though, there comes a point when you have to ask yourself how much your time is worth...  By the time you're done constructing a working joystick you will have spent at a minimum maybe 3 hours.  One might look at that as saving $7.  I look at it as getting paid a little over $2/hour.  It's not even a question of practicality at that point, it's simple economics.

[WareWolF]

If someone would make replica wico leaf joystick's (both 4 & 8 way) that looked, worked & felt like the real thing I think they could make a killing with the collector croud.

[bfauska]

I must agree with the statement of "why build when you can buy one for like $7?" though, there comes a point when you have to ask yourself how much your time is worth...  By the time you're done constructing a working joystick you will have spent at a minimum maybe 3 hours.  One might look at that as saving $7.  I look at it as getting paid a little over $2/hour.  It's not even a question of practicality at that point, it's simple economics.

While I can't speak directly for the OP I bet I am in a similar frame of mind as him.  Many of us are here to BUILD our own arcade controls, playing with them (at least to me) is frequently secondary.  I enjoy building things, much more than using them most of the time.  I work in a field where we build brand new stuff from scratch so that people can look at it on a stage for about 1 month then we tear it all apart and build some new stuff, rinse and repeat.  As a kid when I used to play with G.I. Joe, Matchbox, Hotwheels, Micro Machines, or whatever I always enjoyed setting up places for the play to take place and then barely doing any sort of action.  Huge (well about 1"=1'-0" scale really) military bases and whole cities carved into the dirt in the backyard after hours of work, all so that when I had to go inside for the night and it rained I could do it all again the next day (rinse and repeat a little more literally this time.)  Legos too, build, destroy, build again.  I could never understand the kids who wanted to have battles with their G.I. Joes, or races with their cars.  Even with R/C cars, I built them from the kit, charged the battery for 20 minutes, and then drove for 15 which usually resulted in breaking something which was fine because it meant I could spend the next day fixing it.

Build your joystick, hell, mine the minerals to make the metal to make the machine to turn the shaft if that's what you want to do.  The process is MOST of the fun. 

Of course after saying all that it dawns on me that half the time recently I can't convince myself that actually working on my cabinet would be a better use of my time than 20 more games of KLAX, WTF is wrong with me?

[destructor]

http://www.kowal.itcom.pl/ArcadeParts_pliki/Joysticki.htm

[DarkBubble]

Galvanization is only a thin coating on the outside of the metal.  Once you cut through that you just have mild steel which is pretty average when it comes to machining...  Of course once you take off the galvanized layer, what you have left will be a rust magnet so keep it oiled until you paint it and make sure you paint it well.

If that's the only issue, a quick onceover on the machined areas with cold galv spray would probably be sufficient.

I must agree with the statement of "why build when you can buy one for like $7?" though, there comes a point when you have to ask yourself how much your time is worth...  By the time you're done constructing a working joystick you will have spent at a minimum maybe 3 hours.  One might look at that as saving $7.  I look at it as getting paid a little over $2/hour.  It's not even a question of practicality at that point, it's simple economics.

I look at it as a chance to improve my limited skills with mostly free/scrap material while tuning out the world with some tunes or an audio book.  It's kind of like meditation for me.  If something of mine breaks, I tear it open in and try to fix it when or if I can, even if I can go out and get another of what it is for only a few bucks.  It's not because I'm cheap, but because I enjoy it.

As a kid when I used to play with G.I. Joe, Matchbox, Hotwheels, Micro Machines, or whatever I always enjoyed setting up places for the play to take place and then barely doing any sort of action.  Huge (well about 1"=1'-0" scale really) military bases and whole cities carved into the dirt in the backyard after hours of work, all so that when I had to go inside for the night and it rained I could do it all again the next day (rinse and repeat a little more literally this time.)  Legos too, build, destroy, build again.

That was me.  I always wanted to do more as well, and seeing as I still have my old toys and some newer ones, I've often considered building complex scenes for display.  I've never been much of a model builder or anything, but I've always wanted to.  Something about doing some of it from scratch always sounded fun, especially after looking at some of the scenes that they built up for the old action figure commercials.  Of course, I know what the first word out of my wife's mouth would be when she saw me building up displays for Resident Evil figures..."Dork!"

[RobotronNut]

well, if you're going to build from scratch, why not try to improve the state of the art, instead of just copying something?

here's an old post of mine that muses about what might be possible:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=56090.msg551189#msg551189

you wouldn't need to build the "ideal" joystick, but perhaps figure out a mechanical way to make one of these parameters more adjustable and see how tweaking it affects your game play.

here's another old post that discusses why this kind of tweaking is helpful:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=60091.msg595625#msg595625

[bfauska]

RobotronNut,
I didn't look at the links (no time. I should be leaving instead of typing this, but I'm an addict), but the idea of adjustable throw on a joystick is fantastic (I assume that is one of the ideas)  I really like some games with a tight and sensitive joystick, and others it's nice to be able to move a bit before the game reacts.

Now I want to build one.  DAMN IT. NO TIME.

I know what the first word out of my wife's mouth would be when she saw me building up displays for Resident Evil figures..."Dork!"

My wife wouldn't say it like a new discovery, it would be some comment about how it's yet another example of my already too obvious self proclaimed (and proclaimed by her) dorkdum.  to us dorks.

[Kremmit]

Here's one that you won't find on the Happ site.  I was going to post a Wico diagram as well, but I just noticed that it doesn't show the inside of the stick base, which makes it less than useful.  BTW, I really, really like the feel of the Monroe joystick (Gyruss, Time Pilot and Rampage), and it's made almost entirely of metal, hint hint. 

[kowal]

[SodaPopinksi]

As a kid when I used to play with G.I. Joe, Matchbox, Hotwheels, Micro Machines, or whatever I always enjoyed setting up places for the play to take place and then barely doing any sort of action.

That is so funny! I was like that as well, I had the GI Joe aircraft carrier with like 3 planes and 50 figures all standing in poses on bases with all their equipment placed just so... I would play with them but not really rough like, like I'd make elaborate plots involving snipers or the Baroness in a hot tub... Friends would come over and take the toys and just sort of mush them together while I sat in the background slightly devastated at all the setting up I'd have to redo after they went home hahaha... 

[DarkBubble]

My wife wouldn't say it like a new discovery, it would be some comment about how it's yet another example of my already too obvious self proclaimed (and proclaimed by her) dorkdum.  to us dorks.

Here here!   

Here's one that you won't find on the Happ site.  I was going to post a Wico diagram as well, but I just noticed that it doesn't show the inside of the stick base, which makes it less than useful.  BTW, I really, really like the feel of the Monroe joystick (Gyruss, Time Pilot and Rampage), and it's made almost entirely of metal, hint hint. 

Wow.  So that's why the stick on those machines always felt so smooth.  It's such a simple design too.  The only part I'm having trouble with is the ball bearing case.  On the diagram, it looks like a washer.

well, if you're going to build from scratch, why not try to improve the state of the art, instead of just copying something?

here's an old post of mine that muses about what might be possible:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=56090.msg551189#msg551189

you wouldn't need to build the "ideal" joystick, but perhaps figure out a mechanical way to make one of these parameters more adjustable and see how tweaking it affects your game play.

here's another old post that discusses why this kind of tweaking is helpful:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=60091.msg595625#msg595625

The second I read the part about making parameters adjustable, I immediately had a vision of a mechanism that could adjust the throw.     Can't...stay...focused.  I totally agree with what you're saying though.  I've got ideas for other sticks and tweaks running through my head, but I really need to start small.  Like I said, my skills are limited.  I think that starting with something more basic will help me not only to be more competent, but it will likely help me make better design choices with the more complex ideas I have in mind that will streamline them and make them less clunky.

[RobotronNut]

with this design, one adjustment affects both throw and engagement. i'd like those to be separately adjustable.

i think the simplest way to get adjustable throw is to make a set of interchangeable restrictors. something like the u360, but with maybe 5 different sizes of circular restrictors, instead of just one.

the u360 also could be programmed for adjustable engagement. unfortunately, the current software uses a crude table, but code could be written to make engagement finely adjustable.

[kowal]

with this design, one adjustment affects both throw and engagement. i'd like those to be separately adjustable.

throw in relation to engagement has to have 2:1 - for circle & octagonal restrictors. differently game bad records combinations: 2xQCF, 2xHCF....
Happ Super/ X-arcade  throw/engage >3:1 and this sucks. I this checked on U360 it has to be 2:1.

[RobotronNut]

...
throw in relation to engagement has to have 2:1
...

interesting. so you're saying that it would work to have a fixed ratio of throw to engagement and have one adjustment that adjusts both. i could see that.

[Kevin Mullins]

I'm really not wanting to mess with trying to machine stainless steel for a stick. 

You'd be surprised if you were to just try it .....  it's no "harder" than mild steel .... I find machining stainless easier and much cleaner results than mild steel anyways.
And of course you don't have to mess with coatings or paint that WILL eventually chip and be vulnerable to rust.

[bfauska]

And of course you don't have to mess with coatings or paint that WILL eventually chip and be vulnerable to rust.

Provided you keep it cool enough.  I have heated stainless to the point of becoming "rustable" simply by not apply enough lubrication while drilling a hole in it.

[Kremmit]

Wow.  So that's why the stick on those machines always felt so smooth.  It's such a simple design too.  The only part I'm having trouble with is the ball bearing case.  On the diagram, it looks like a washer.

I'll have to see about digging out an actual stick and shooting you some pictures.

i think the simplest way to get adjustable throw is to make a set of interchangeable restrictors. something like the u360, but with maybe 5 different sizes of circular restrictors, instead of just one.

You really need to see the other Monroe joystick design.  I don't have a diagram for it, but it incorporates a super-simple restrictor that can be changed out at will.  I'll have a go at pics of that one as well.

[DarkBubble]

I'm really not wanting to mess with trying to machine stainless steel for a stick. 

You'd be surprised if you were to just try it .....  it's no "harder" than mild steel .... I find machining stainless easier and much cleaner results than mild steel anyways.
And of course you don't have to mess with coatings or paint that WILL eventually chip and be vulnerable to rust.

I'll keep that in mind when it turns into an actual project.  I'm going to do a little more research on materials before I commit fully.  I'm such a newb, it's not even funny.

I'll have to see about digging out an actual stick and shooting you some pictures.

I'd appreciate it a lot.