Author Topic: Bartop for Dad Centipede Style Deliverey 6/10/07 (Read 41297 times)

Kaytrim · « **on:** April 27, 2007, 01:13:35 pm »

I recently received permission from my step mom to build an arcade machine for my dad and I am looking for some input from the community. As Centipede and PacMan are two of his favorites I used them as a base to start from. I also have an old P4 733mhz machine with 512mb RAM, 10GB HD and 17" CRT. I have TinyXP beast already installed. For the controls, I have a T-Stick set in 4-way mode and Beston 3" trackball. Does anyone know the pin out of the molex connector of the beston trackball?

I have more or less decided to mount the CRT vertically and to build this as a bartop model. I am trying to decide on the profile of the cab. I was thinking of one of the two games listed above and I am leaning towards the Centipede profile but I like the PacMan one as well.

Another aspect that I am still a little up in the air on is the MAME version and the list of games. First requirement is that trackball games are on the list. Second thing is that 4-way joystick games are a must but the number of buttons are up in the air. I can easily add the horizontal and vertical 2-way games as well. I would like to add 8-way games but I don't want to require dad to have to switch the joystick mode. One option is to upgrade the joystick to either a U360 or a GGG 49-way down the road so I can expand the game options at that point.

Thanks for all your input
Kaytrim

leapinlew · « **Reply #1 on:** April 27, 2007, 01:47:45 pm »

Pentium 4 733mhz? Is it a P3?

I would go with a pac-man profile and skip 8 way games all together. The 17" CRT is pretty deep - make sure you measure one. I would either use a 17" LCD or a 15" CRT.

ChadTower · « **Reply #2 on:** April 27, 2007, 01:53:47 pm »

The decased 17" I just measured, and it was an older/bigger one, was also about 17-18" deep. I wouldn't imagine they get deeper than that one, it has a lot of heavy shielding and had one of the chassis PCBs mounted vertically behind the neckboard.

theCoder · « **Reply #3 on:** April 27, 2007, 02:35:19 pm »

I'd recommend a 4 way JS with three buttons. This gets you all the classics including Missile Command. I'd keep the game list down, say to 20 or less. Switching the JS between 4/8 is easy, but is hard to communicate to a young (or older) house guest. Also, with a CRT in the mix, heat is going to be an issue. Also keep an eye on the overall weight of the thing. Good luck with the build and I guess it's my turn to say it, take lots of pictures.

Kaytrim · « **Reply #4 on:** April 27, 2007, 02:41:14 pm »

Sounds like the CRT that I have Chad. Mine is an old Dell monitor, don't have the model number on me though. I can see the shielding though the plastic case and it covers the entire monitor.

Lew. The only thing that is keeping me away from the PacMan profile is the angle of the monitor in the cab. If I could afford to use an LCD then the PacMan monitor angle would not be a problem. As it sits vertically the monitor is about the right angle for the Centipede profile.

Kaytrim · « **Reply #5 on:** April 27, 2007, 02:56:23 pm »

Quote from: theCoder on April 27, 2007, 02:35:19 pm

I'd recommend a 4 way JS with three buttons. This gets you all the classics including Missile Command. I'd keep the game list down, say to 20 or less. Switching the JS between 4/8 is easy, but is hard to communicate to a young (or older) house guest. Also, with a CRT in the mix, heat is going to be an issue. Also keep an eye on the overall weight of the thing. Good luck with the build and I guess it's my turn to say it, take lots of pictures.

Thanks for the advice Coder. Don't worry I will take plenty of pics on this one. I do plan on having a few vents in the cab. Another reason for the centipede profile. The intakes could be on the underside of the CP. See the pics in my last post. Thanks go to Jack-o-Bud for the original plans. I just cut them off to a bartop size.

What is the JS joystick? In the long run if I do upgrade the joystick I want it to switch automatically. For the time being I have enough invested in this project. If I spend any more on this it will be for a KeyWiz eco encoder. I can hack a mouse for the trackball. All I need to do is build it, paint it, and print off some simple artwork. I plan on using transparencies for the marquee and CP artwork.

TTFN

Kaytrim

**Edit added possible CP image

leapinlew · « **Reply #6 on:** April 27, 2007, 03:05:40 pm »

Quote from: Kaytrim on April 27, 2007, 02:56:23 pm

Quote from: theCoder on April 27, 2007, 02:35:19 pm
I'd recommend a 4 way JS with three buttons. This gets you all the classics including Missile Command. I'd keep the game list down, say to 20 or less. Switching the JS between 4/8 is easy, but is hard to communicate to a young (or older) house guest. Also, with a CRT in the mix, heat is going to be an issue. Also keep an eye on the overall weight of the thing. Good luck with the build and I guess it's my turn to say it, take lots of pictures.

Thanks for the advice Coder. Don't worry I will take plenty of pics on this one. I do plan on having a few vents in the cab. Another reason for the centipede profile. The intakes could be on the underside of the CP. See the pics in my last post. Thanks go to Jack-o-Bud for the original plans. I just cut them off to a bartop size.

What is the JS joystick? In the long run if I do upgrade the joystick I want it to switch automatically. For the time being I have enough invested in this project. If I spend any more on this it will be for a KeyWiz eco encoder. I can hack a mouse for the trackball. All I need to do is build it, paint it, and print off some simple artwork. I plan on using transparencies for the marquee and CP artwork.

TTFN
Kaytrim

**Edit added possible CP image

I think JS meant Joystick...

leapinlew · « **Reply #7 on:** April 27, 2007, 03:07:16 pm »

Also, either of those profiles would allow for some buttons in the kickplate area.

Kaytrim · « **Reply #8 on:** April 27, 2007, 03:09:36 pm »

Quote from: leapinlew on April 27, 2007, 03:05:40 pm

I think JS meant Joystick...

I thought that he might have meant one of the Japanese lines, Sanwa I think.

Quote from: leapinlew on April 27, 2007, 03:07:16 pm

Also, either of those profiles would allow for some buttons in the kickplate area.

Kind of what I was thinking, just put them on the CP for reference. The CP image is 20" x 7" and could be smaller too.

Kaytrim

CheffoJeffo · « **Reply #9 on:** April 27, 2007, 03:12:28 pm »

Quote from: Kaytrim on April 27, 2007, 01:13:35 pm

Does anyone know the pin out of the molex connector of the beston trackball?

My recollection is that Wico, Happs and Betson t-balls all use the same pinout (at least the Betson and Happs units that I have all do):

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=3131;start=msg18232#msg18232

Cheers

Kaytrim · « **Reply #10 on:** April 27, 2007, 03:23:19 pm »

thanks CheffoJeffo. I'll check that out when I get the chance, this weekend I hope. Another question on the trackball. My mouse hack has only one x and one y input. Would I hook up only one or both of the outputs for each axis from the TB to mouse?

rockin_rick · « **Reply #11 on:** April 27, 2007, 05:58:12 pm »

It has to have 2 inputs per axis otherwise it couldn't determine direction. Check into it more...

Rick

psychotech · « **Reply #12 on:** April 27, 2007, 07:29:53 pm »

Sounds good!

But ..maybe with that deep 17" CRT you'd like to check out the Bombjack's profile too ..and, just maybe, design some kind of compromise between Centipede & Bombjack? More "flow" to the profile and a bit "shorter"/lighter marquee.

And yes, I'd go with 3 buttons too. Not so sure on the 4/8-way JS question... Depends too much on the type/brand of JS.

EDIT: As you seem to have the space available, why not position the buttons for "the natural curve" of the player's fingers .. Again, shamelessly promoting my solution ..Sorry, but check out the third picture @ this post http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=56653.msg583280#msg583280

Still, PIX

Good luck!

theCoder · « **Reply #13 on:** April 27, 2007, 11:57:57 pm »

Quote from: leapinlew on April 27, 2007, 03:05:40 pm

I think JS meant Joystick...

What he said. Just get'n lazy with my typing.

Those three admin buttons on the top left look kind of awkward. I'd recommend three small ones across the top or along the side, or perhaps putting one in the front as leapinlew mentioned.

Kaytrim · « **Reply #14 on:** April 30, 2007, 11:35:37 am »

Quote from: rockin_rick on April 27, 2007, 05:58:12 pm

It has to have 2 inputs per axis otherwise it couldn't determine direction. Check into it more...

Rick

Thanks Rick for the feedback. I see now where I went wrong with my mouse hack. I rewired it with a better understanding on how it should be constructed. I'll put up pics later of the hack and the other controls that I am using.

Quote from: psychotech on April 27, 2007, 07:29:53 pm

..maybe with that deep 17" CRT you'd like to check out the Bombjack's profile too ..and, just maybe, design some kind of compromise between Centipede & Bombjack? More "flow" to the profile and a bit "shorter"/lighter marquee.

You reminded me of a problem that Lew had on his last bartop. The marquee was too far foward and blocked the screen some. I'll keep this in mind as I work on the final profile.

Quote from: psychotech on April 27, 2007, 07:29:53 pm

And yes, I'd go with 3 buttons too.

This seems to be the favorite number for a vert layout. 3 buttons it is.

Quote from: psychotech on April 27, 2007, 07:29:53 pm

EDIT: As you seem to have the space available, why not position the buttons for "the natural curve" of the player's fingers .. Again, shamelessly promoting my solution ..Sorry, but check out the third picture @ this post http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=56653.msg583280#msg583280

Still, PIX

Good luck!

Don't worry about the plugs psychotech. I have been following your BombJack project. In fact it was your project that showed me that I could build this on the cheep so to speak. Where did you get the small buttons for your CP? They might be a nice solution for my admin buttons.

Pics to come...

TTFN

Kaytrim

psychotech · « **Reply #15 on:** April 30, 2007, 05:00:09 pm »

Heh

And thanks for the comments (always appreciated!), even though the mirroring option didn't work with the main CP..

Anyway.. again, check out my answer to the theCoder's question about the miniature buttons: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=61679.msg647239#msg647239 ..probably not an option with the current €/$ exchange rate..

Those buttons or something similar are surely available at most specialized electronics parts shops everywhere..?

All the best with the build!

PT

Kaytrim · « **Reply #16 on:** May 05, 2007, 12:56:48 pm »

LET THE FUN BEGIN!!!

I started out scaling the profile down to fit the monitor. I placed the monitor in horizontal format on the wood. This way when the cab is upright the monitor will be in the vertical format. The second pic is a close-up of the monitor in position. The third pic shows the full profile as you can see I went with one similar to the Centipede profile. The next three pics are the controls starting with the trackball and mouse hack. Then the joystick and keywiz and finally the buttons that I plan on using.

Kaytrim · « **Reply #17 on:** May 05, 2007, 12:58:29 pm »

Time to make some dust.

I had already cut the first side and was ready to use a patern bit in my router. DARN the bit was for ½” wood and I am using ¾”. Well to get the second piece cut I went back to the circular saw and finished it off. One thing to keep in mind when you are cutting the inside corners don’t finish the cut through the bottom. Watch the blade and stop when it reaches the corner. Then come at it from the other direction and finish the cut with a hand saw.

Kaytrim · « **Reply #18 on:** May 05, 2007, 01:01:47 pm »

Now to de-case the monitor.

Here you can see that the shielding is just a loose piece inside the plastic case. The ears are good size and have strong screws. This is perfect for de-casing and mounting on a wood bezel.

I need to pick up a slot cutting bit for my router and a bit more MDF to finish the case. I also have the layout of the CP basicly planed out. The CP is 16x8

I hope to have some more work done this weekend still. I have to try to get this phase done quickly so I can get it painted and complete for Father's day.

TTFN

Kaytrim

psychotech · « **Reply #19 on:** May 05, 2007, 04:52:21 pm »

Looking mighty fine !

That's the way to design - a really nice - cab profile

Keep up the good work

psycho

Kaytrim · « **Reply #20 on:** May 07, 2007, 10:27:43 am »

Thanks psychotech. I didn't realize how big this was going to be until after I cut out the side panels. Definitely bigger than the ones you've made.

I didn't get much else done this weekend though. The wife unit decided it was time to clean up and organize the workshop. And while I was doing that she was cleaning out some old junk in another part of the basement. She needed to to that so I can continue working to finish that part of the basement off. It was a good thing that I cleaned the workshop because I found an unopened big bucket of drywall mud that I had forgotten I had.

Now I can finish off my office area and get moved in there. After the wife is done with her corner of the basement I can finish off that area as well.

I was able to get a few little things done though. I was able to mount the cleats on the side panels so I can figure out the miter cuts for the other panels. I was also able to figure out a way to make my T-Stick easily switchable from 4 to 8 way. Now I can add games like 1942 to the list for Dad. I'll post some pics soon on how I did it. One hint, I got the idea from RandyT.

TTFN

Kaytrim

Kaytrim · « **Reply #21 on:** May 07, 2007, 05:00:32 pm »

Artwork Request

I have seen a few variations on the Centipede CP artwork floating around. Could someone whip up one for me that would work for my cab? The CP is 16x7. I plan on using the coin button from GGG. This will be put on the front 'kickplate' of the cab. The layout below is what I am looking at for the controls. The second attachment is the measurements from the upper left corner to the center of the control. I have a T-Stick, 3 action buttons and a 3" trackball. The two buttons in the upper left are the player start buttons. I am not sure where I will put the pause and quit buttons but there really is no 'safe' place on the CP. Maybe on the 'kickplate'.

Thanks,
Kaytrim

psychotech · « **Reply #22 on:** May 08, 2007, 09:16:04 pm »

Can't help with the CP, but...

How big is the bartop going to be actually?

Bombjack: 19" CRT & 2 player CP: Depth 70cm (27,5"), height 80cm (31,5") and width 58cm (22,85").

Tomatocade gets the "miniature award" .. maybe

Still, all the best with the build

psychotech

Kaytrim · « **Reply #23 on:** May 08, 2007, 11:04:35 pm »

It may be a washout on the size comparison; 17" CRT vertical, 37.25" high X 28.50 deep X 17.5 wide. Tomatocade can't claim the smallest though. There is one here on the boards that is smaller than a house cat and uses a HP PDA.

PICS...

Here is one of the sides with the cleats attached. You can also see my tools to get all the angels and lengths for the rest of the panels. This is going to be a real challenge to get right. With Dad being a finish carpenter I am going to have to really take my time with the cuts and assembly. Wish me luck.

Kaytrim · « **Reply #24 on:** May 08, 2007, 11:07:47 pm »

PICS, continued...

Now for the T-Stick modifications. The first pic is of an unmodified T-Stick lever. See the tab in the circle? This helps to lock the lever in the 4-way or 8-way mode. This has to go so it is easier to move. The second pic shows the material removed. The last two pics show the allen wrench that I used to extend the lever above the CP.

TTFN

Kaytrim

superbigjay · « **Reply #25 on:** May 09, 2007, 12:16:01 am »

Wow, good progress on Dad's bartop.
nice mod for the joystick!

These projects are time consumming. so much to do and so little time to accomplish them

Keep us posted!
Jay

psychotech · « **Reply #26 on:** May 09, 2007, 12:46:30 pm »

Well, yeah.. actually meant that of the two I've built only the Tomatocade actually is a miniature bartop

Great progress and a nice joystick hack

Still, we need more pix !

psycho

Kaytrim · « **Reply #27 on:** May 09, 2007, 01:41:20 pm »

Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix Pix

Is that enough?

Kaytrim

psychotech · « **Reply #28 on:** May 09, 2007, 03:37:27 pm »

Well...

...not really

Oh, you actually mean to build it..

Well, maybe we'll get the pictures later

pt

Kaytrim · « **Reply #29 on:** May 09, 2007, 03:39:51 pm »

Yes this is a Work In Progress.

I intended to WIP it before it wips me.

Kaytrim

Kaytrim · « **Reply #30 on:** May 09, 2007, 11:11:16 pm »

LETS GET 3D

I got the rest of the panels cut tonight and assembly has started.

Loctite and drywall screws are all I needed. I'll let the pics speak for themselves.

Kaytrim · « **Reply #31 on:** May 09, 2007, 11:14:03 pm »

LETS GET 3D Continued

More pics of the assembled cab. The CP and the CP front are not glued in but are glued together. I will add a cleat to the joint to give it some strength later.

TTFN

Kaytrim

theCoder · « **Reply #32 on:** May 10, 2007, 12:20:59 am »

It really feels good to get the majority of the wood cut doesn't it. Way to go.

The allen wrench approach is possibly going to cause problems. Are you going to have a slot in the CP for the wrench? Is is intended to be permanently mounted, or removable? Either way, it introduces a few more points of failure. I'd go with a top selectable JS like the Mag-Stik Plus from Ultimarc. They cost about $30 plus shipping. I used one on my last project. It is clean, functional, has good action, and is easy to switch. For what it's worth....

leapinlew · « **Reply #33 on:** May 10, 2007, 12:35:23 am »

Looks good.

I have a question about your t-molding. Are you still planning on cutting a slot? If so, some of those screws look like they might be a problem. Some of your screws are in the way of the bit that would make the slot - potential dangerous situation with a router.

Another question - how do you intend to hold a marquee on?

leapinlew · « **Reply #34 on:** May 10, 2007, 12:39:03 am »

Quote from: Kaytrim on April 30, 2007, 11:35:37 am

You reminded me of a problem that Lew had on his last bartop. The marquee was too far foward and blocked the screen some. I'll keep this in mind as I work on the final profile.

I just noticed this comment and your right to learn from others. The angle of view on the multi-williams bartop is more limiting that I would like. With a LCD it's not all bad since your angle of view is limited anyhow. I resolved the issue mostly, but on the new bartop I'm making I cut the marquee back to allow a larger range of viewing angle.

Kaytrim · « **Reply #35 on:** May 10, 2007, 09:47:21 am »

Quote from: theCoder on May 10, 2007, 12:20:59 am

It really feels good to get the majority of the wood cut doesn't it. Way to go.

The allen wrench approach is possibly going to cause problems. Are you going to have a slot in the CP for the wrench? Is is intended to be permanently mounted, or removable? Either way, it introduces a few more points of failure. I'd go with a top selectable JS like the Mag-Stik Plus from Ultimarc. They cost about $30 plus shipping. I used one on my last project. It is clean, functional, has good action, and is easy to switch. For what it's worth....

This is a T-Stick plus joystick, it works just like the Mag-Stick plus you menton. I wanted to easily tell which mode the stick was in. The alen wrench is not 'permanentaly' installed but the hole I drilled is slightly smaller so friction will keep it in place. Once the stick is mounted it should be no problem.

Quote from: leapinlew on May 10, 2007, 12:35:23 am

Looks good.

I have a question about your t-molding. Are you still planning on cutting a slot? If so, some of those screws look like they might be a problem. Some of your screws are in the way of the bit that would make the slot - potential dangerous situation with a router.

Another question - how do you intend to hold a marquee on?

Lew, thanks for the warning. I will remove the screws prior to routing for the t-molding. The glue and cleats should hold it together. The issue that I am concerned about at this point is that the Centipede CP is rounded. To get that profile I think that I will have to use my belt sander because the angles prevent a router from doing a good job. The marquee mounting is not fully fleshed out yet but I will have it finished before painting starts. If you want to offer suggestions I am all ears.

Thanks everyone for all the encourgement. I plan to finish the costruction by the end of this weekend so I can start painting.

TTFN

Kaytrim

leapinlew · « **Reply #36 on:** May 10, 2007, 10:27:18 am »

Good luck on the routing and be careful. If that router hits a screw - you may wake up in the hospital.

As for the marquee...

You didn't give yourself much room to use angle iron or happs marquee retainers. Using any of those solutions adds some height to the marquee retainer and it would actually bulge and give the cab a bit of an unsightly profile.

As a possibility, cut and fire some plexi. Sandwich a high quality print on photo paper and use some chrome bolts to bolt it directly to your wood. The way I'm envisioning is a non-lit marquee, but I suppose you could also do a lit marquee. I don't think I like this solution much.

If it were mine, I would cut back the marquee area about 3/4" and drop it down about 1/2".

leapinlew · « **Reply #37 on:** May 10, 2007, 10:28:01 am »

Also -

Thats some nice organization in that garage. Did you clean it just for us?

Kaytrim · « **Reply #38 on:** May 10, 2007, 11:43:55 am »

Quote from: leapinlew on May 10, 2007, 10:28:01 am

Also -

Thats some nice organization in that garage. Did you clean it just for us?

That's not a garage, it's my basement workshop. I just did a massive cleaning and reorg over the weekend by order of the wife unit. It was needed too, there was a path from the door to the bench and that was about it. I still need to finish the bench cleanup there are a few piles of stuff that need a more perminant place to stay.

I don't like the lit marque much either because it would be right in your eyes while you play. What do you mean by 'fire' the plexi? I do have the option to modify the profile slightly to handel retainers. I was thinking of getting the plastic wallpaper corner protectors and while heating them redo the bend to match the angles I have.

I ment to route for the t-molding on the side panels but I got ahead of myself.

Again thanks for the warning.

TTFN

Kaytrim

Donkey_Kong · « **Reply #39 on:** May 10, 2007, 03:09:30 pm »

Awesome craftsmanship Kaytrim. Going for the son of the year award with this gift eh?


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Author Topic: Bartop for Dad Centipede Style ** Deliverey ** 6/10/07 (Read 41297 times)

Author Topic: Bartop for Dad Centipede Style Deliverey 6/10/07 (Read 41297 times)