which 4-way? Super/Reunion/Ultimate

[ringram]

I've asked this question in the hardware forum, but not much traffic there...

I'm building a 2 player panel, and am using the Happ Super's for the main sticks. I am also installing a dedicated 2-way stick. I was originally going with a super in 4-way mode, but am thinking it may not be the best. My other considerations are the pacman reunion stick as well as the ultimate 4-way.

What are your suggestions/comments? Please, no Wico/Nintendo arguments, and no 'broken' definitions.

[Jeff AMN]

I wouldn't ever use a Happs Ultimate for anything. If you can use a Reunion, that's a great stick.

[GAtekwriter]

Jeff,

What would you recommend for someone wanting to avoid having to reconfigure two 4/8 way joysticks manually?

Thanks,

Jim

[ringram]

Isn't the reunion stick a modified super? If so, can I make/modify the restrictor plate to make the super into a reunion stick? I want to keep the sticks looking the same or simlar on the panel.

[Tiger-Heli]

I would avoid the Supers or Ultimates.

Not sure if the Reunion was what Hanaho uses for their 4-way stick, but if so I didn't like it.

Personally, I like short-throw 4-way sticks.  My GGG prodigies work well, or the dedicated Omni-Stick/Euro Stick/Suzo 500.  Mounting can be difficult.  T-Sticks are also likely good options, although I haven't used them personally.

Personally, a good short throw 4-way works fine as a 2-way stick as well, but that's my opinion.

[Tiger-Heli]

Isn't the reunion stick a modified super? If so, can I make/modify the restrictor plate to make the super into a reunion stick? I want to keep the sticks looking the same or simlar on the panel.

Don't think so - you can get replacement handles for some of the sticks.

[SavannahLion]

I would avoid the Supers or Ultimates.

I wouldn't ever use a Happs Ultimate for anything.

Why?

I'm not goading anyone into a X vs. Y argument, I honestly want to know why. Is it a personal preference or is there a technical reason for it?

[Tiger-Heli]

What would you recommend for someone wanting to avoid having to reconfigure two 4/8 way joysticks manually?

Not sure what you are asking . . .

If you have a dedicated 8-way and a dedicated 4-way mapped to the same inputs, you don't need any manual reconfiguration.

If you don't mind playing 4-way games with an 8-way you don't need any configuration either.

If you mean a switchable stick from above the panel, you want either the GGG Prodigies or the Ultimarc T-Sticks.

If you mean a stick that is switched through software to the correct mode, you want either the GGG 49-way stick and GPWiz-49, or the Ultimarc MagStick (Ultimate 360).

[ringram]

OK, I've heard that the ultimates aren't very good, but they've been recommended to me as a viable option for dedicated 4-way.

The only complaint that I've read about the reunion stick is that it is short, but then it's made to be like the original pacman 4-way, so it should be.

I've read a lot of good review on the super as an 8-way, but you disagree. Why?

[GAtekwriter]

Thanks, Tiger-Heli...

I dont' have the correct terminology down, I guess.

What I'm wanting is a joystick that can work as a 4way or 8way, but doesn't require me to open the Control Panel to change it.  I've played on an 8way for a 4way game and I didn't like how the diagonals kept interfering.  My head is spinning with all the hardware reviews I've read and I'm forgetting which ones I've seen that allow me to either flip a switch or configure via software.

Thanks again.

Jim

[Tiger-Heli]

I would avoid the Supers or Ultimates.

I wouldn't ever use a Happs Ultimate for anything.

Why?

I'm not goading anyone into a X vs. Y argument, I honestly want to know why. Is it a personal preference or is there a technical reason for it?

It's always personal preference. 

But every review I have ever read said Ultimates suck, particularly Oscar's compairson, although only some of it is available on Google cache now, might be on wayback.

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-77118.html

http://www.retroblast.com/reviews/joysticks/happultimate.html (If RetroBlast doesn't like a product you know you're in trouble.    Oh -  Kevin!

Supers are a very nice 8-way for circular motions like time-pilot and Capcom (?) fighters.

Comps are good for precise diagonals like MK and Q-bert . . .

Ultimates were probably the most universally used stick, but lesser quality than either of the above for about the same price.

[Tiger-Heli]

I've read a lot of good review on the super as an 8-way, but you disagree. Why?

Who disagreed?  (I said I didn't think a Reunion was a modified Super or could be made from a Super.) And I said Supers are not good as 4-ways (no restrictor, can hit diagonals, too long a throw).

They'd probably be my first choice as an 8-way.  A little diagonal happy, and a little hard to feel the diagonals, but a nice working stick.

[Tiger-Heli]

My head is spinning with all the hardware reviews I've read and I'm forgetting which ones I've seen that allow me to either flip a switch or configure via software.

Flip a switch - GGG Prodigy, Ultimarc T-Stick

Software - GGG 49-way and GP-Wiz, Ultimarc U360's (I think they're called that).

[ringram]

OK, maybe I read it wrong.

So, I'll stick with the super's for the 8-way. But, I still have to figure out the 4-way. Thanks for the input.

[ringram]

GGG Prodigy, Ultimarc T-Stick, GGG 49-way, Ultimarc U360, mag-stick, plus, minus, reunion, super D duper, ultimate, Happ, Sanwa, Ultimarc, GGG

Too much to choose from. I think my brain is broken. Or maybe, it's just not working right...

[Kaytrim]

But every review I have ever read said Ultimates suck, particularly Oscar's compairson, although only some of it is available on Google cache now, might be on wayback.

Saint has mirrored Oscar's site here on BYOAC http://mirrors.arcadecontrols.com/www.oscarcontrols.com/joycompare/joyreview1.shtml.html  He likes the Competitions better and so do I. 

For your 4-way the T-Stick is no longer being produced.  They are being replaced by the Mag-Stick.  The functionality is basically the same though.  I have the old T-Sticks and they are great for 4-way operation.  I would stay away from them for 8-way mode, the diagonals are much easier to hit than the cardinals.  If price is a sticking point your other options are the Happ reunion and the GGG Prodigy.  If money is no problem then get two Ultimarc U360 sticks or two GGG 49-way sticks when the come out and be done with it.

[NoOne=NBA=]

I'm with Tiger-Heli on the short throw sticks.
My personal favorite 4-way is the T-stik with the RandyT "put some washers in as spacers to lighten the spring up" mod.
It keeps the really short throw of the T-stik, but lightens the spring considerably, to keep you from wearing yourself out playing on it.

[Tiger-Heli]

Saint has mirrored Oscar's site here on BYOAC http://mirrors.arcadecontrols.com/www.oscarcontrols.com/joycompare/joyreview1.shtml.html 

Great news - I missed that  

For your 4-way the T-Stick is no longer being produced.  They are being replaced by the Mag-Stick.

Knew that - Forgot it.

If price is a sticking point your other options are the Happ reunion and the GGG Prodigy.  If money is no problem then get two Ultimarc U360 sticks or two GGG 49-way sticks when the come out and be done with it.

For a dedicated stick, the Suzo 500 is essentially the same as the GGG Prodigy without the mounting plate.  They are great 4-way sticks.  Another option would be the Ultimarc J-Stick (made by Sanwa) - Slightly longer travel and lighter springs than the Prodigy/Reunion/or Mag sticks, but some people really liked them.

[rdowdy95]

Let me tell you what I like.  I have two 8-way Supers.  They are good.  They work for me.

Then I use a 4-way Reunion stick I got from Tornado Terry with the longer handle so I use with my 3/4" panel.  The base of this Reunion looks exactly like a base of a Happ Super.  The only diff is it is in a diamond style shape so it restricts diagnol presses.  Works great.

[RobotronNut]

...
Another option would be the Ultimarc J-Stick (made by Sanwa) - Slightly longer travel and lighter springs than the Prodigy/Reunion/or Mag sticks, but some people really liked them.

add me to the group that really likes them.

i started out with a reunion/tornadoterry. good for most 4-way games, but engagement too slow for 2-way games, like defender or galaxian. the central dead zone is too big - i get killed too fast. if you have a dedicated 2-way, this may not bother you. then again, do you have both horizontal and vertical 2-ways? and if your 4-way performed well on 2-way games, perhaps you could eliminate the 2-way.

switched to a 4-way nos wico leafswitch stick. can be tweaked to engage quickly, but i don't really like the feel of the rubber grommet, don't like having to tweak the leaf switches, and don't like the fact that the rubber will eventually decompose and grommets are no longer being made.

finally tried a j-stik. love it. engagement is fast; best feel of any 4-way (to me); should last forever without tweaking or replacing parts.

[juggle50]

Well, not to make things more confusing but for my 4 way I use an old used original Pacman leafswitch joystick (with new grommet) and love it.  It plays most classics just like I remember and even has some quirks just like the beat up machines I played on when I was a kid.  They built them to last back then and it does take quite a bit of room (although there are ways to retrofit it) and is tough mounting on a wood control panel.  But to me worth it.

I think you've got find what your absolute favorite game is and use the original joystick/s from that (both 4 way and 8 way) for the most original feel.  There seem to be many versital joysticks out there which may be what you want.  You've just got to realize that it's sort of "Jack of all trades master of none" sort of thing.

Good luck

[NoOne=NBA=]

i started out with a reunion/tornadoterry. good for most 4-way games, but engagement too slow for 2-way games

FWIW, Defender and Stargate are the only two games that originally used a 2-way that I don't prefer playing with buttons.

[Tiger-Heli]

FWIW, Defender and Stargate are the only two games that originally used a 2-way that I don't prefer playing with buttons.

Galaga???

[juggle50]

Did defender and stargate use a two way?  I thought Defender used buttons.

[juggle50]

Whoops, just checked klov.  I was wrong defender did use a two way.

[NoOne=NBA=]

Galaga???

I never liked the Galaga sticks, or the Williams sticks mounted horizontally, for that matter.
They all seemed way too short to me, and I have always done better with buttons.
Most of the games I played in the arcade used buttons for left/right, so that may have skewed my preference.

[RobotronNut]

FWIW, Defender and Stargate are the only two games that originally used a 2-way that I don't prefer playing with buttons.

yeah, buttons are as good as or better than a horizontal 2-way. they were original on games like space invaders. i can't bring myself to use them for galaxian and galaga; spent too many years playing those games with joysticks.

like you, i can't use buttons in place of a vertical 2-way. defender and stargate are the games that need the absolute quickest engagement. i'm not that great at defender, but i'm absolutely terrible with a stick that has a big central dead zone.