Fast PC, still Slow Mame32 Game Speed

[whynotpizza]

So here is the PC Config:
 - Intel P4 D 3.2Ghz, 2GB 800Mhz Memory, 500GB SATA HDD @ 3Gbits, 512GB GDDR2 EVGA Card
 - Operation System = Vista
 - Mame32 v109

You'd think the games in Mame32 would be blazing fast, including CHD games right? Wrong. Still games like Tekken and Football and Hockey are still slow.

Any suggestions?

Or does this stuff just require a special set of hardware which just isn't worth buying.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

 

  David

[rockin_rick]

I just tried out tekken on my core2duo E6300 w/2 gig ram, XP, and 0.112 and it got about 50-55 fps during gameplay.  (me watching the FPS displayed via F11)

I don't know what games football and hockey are exactly...

Basically, NO hardware is fast enough to run everything right now...  It will be many years until the processing power is enough to run everything at 100% (assuming moore's law holds up).


Rick

[whynotpizza]

Basically nearly all CHD games still won't play - choppy video and audio.

For example, Wayne Gretzky's Hockey,  Blitz, Gauntlet Legends, Hyperdrive, etc.

Are there any special settings you think to make it work?

Seems odd Area51 works fine, but all these others won't.

 
  David

[destructor]

You can do nothing.

[SirPeale]

You will need upwards of a 15GHz PC to get those games at full speed.  There is nothing you can do.

[Fozzy The Bear]

You will need upwards of a 15GHz PC to get those games at full speed.  There is nothing you can do.

There's nothing you can do except for hassling the Authors of Mame to get their act into gear and start writing code that will run in an optimised fashion.

The fact is that "Mame" is a slug in the speed stakes. In the last two years it's turned into a dirge of poorly optimised code. The excuse we keep hearing is that Mame is about preserving the original data and not about playing games. Well quite frankly, I've heard enough of that rubbish spouted.

When Nicola Salmoria wrote the first version, you're not seriously telling me that he wrote it to preserve data!! Because that's total BS.... He wrote it so he could play a few games of PacMan on the University computers.

There are better optimised and faster emulators for running many of the games that Mame fails to run properly. There's simply no excuse for its sluggish behavior. It's turned into the Windows Vista of the emulation world... over complex over bloated and bogged down to being a slow slow slow beast of a thing.

Now I'm NOT saying that I don't appreciate all of the hard work and dedication put in by the Mame Devs.... Because it would be untrue to say that. They have my undying gratitude and respect for the work that they do. But at the end of the day, if people can't play the games then interest in the wider community will eventually be lost and for many games, other emulators will be used.

For example..... Forget running Neo-Geo Games inside Mame.... It just can't cut it. NeoRageX runs them a hell of a lot better and at full frame rates, even on a low spec PC.  Sega System 2 Games.... 3D, so forget running them in Mame.  Nebula is coming along fast and getting far better results. Adding the Laser Disk games into Mame!! Don't make me laugh! They will be in there..... But they won't be playable.

For the games it does run properly Mame is an astoundingly good piece of software. But the list of games it runs properly is actually shrinking with each release. It will eventually get to the point where it serves no purpose for games players and cabinet builders.  "Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee... Mame".

Sorry guys, this response is NOT meant as any insult to the Devs.... But I really think it's time they started asking themselves what direction this is all headed in.

This may not be a popular opinion amongst several people here, but it is a personal opinion only.... and it is my personal opinion. If you disagree with it, then fine. You are similarly entitled to your own opinion and views which I respect.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

 

[whynotpizza]

> better optimised and faster emulators

Do you have any suggestions on others which will help in my situation (still would like to maintain Vista as the OS if possible)

It would be nice to run in just one emulation tool, but if need be, will have several installed.


   David

[SirPeale]

> better optimised and faster emulators

Do you have any suggestions on others which will help in my situation (still would like to maintain Vista as the OS if possible)

It would be nice to run in just one emulation tool, but if need be, will have several installed.


   David

1) wait for faster computers.

2) buy the original hardware.

[shorthair]

The source is open, and there are others out there with the expertise to code Mame, yes? Perhaps being a dev is like being inside a cult, and all those interested in working it become absorbed by the beast.

[Fozzy The Bear]

> better optimised and faster emulators

Do you have any suggestions on others which will help in my situation (still would like to maintain Vista as the OS if possible)

It would be nice to run in just one emulation tool, but if need be, will have several installed.
   David

I listed three of them in my first response David.... Check those out first.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[whynotpizza]

Ok thanks Fozzy. 

I did try NeoRageX before my initial reply since it appears the rev I tried didn't work well on XP, and assuming Vista as well.

Strange the developers of mame don't have some better way of handling this stuff on PC's. I would think the slooowness would make the ports to mame quite difficult. Ah the joys of emulation....

Need to do more research I think.

Thanks for the 3 pointers.

   David

[destructor]

For example..... Forget running Neo-Geo Games inside Mame.... It just can't cut it. NeoRageX runs them a hell of a lot better and at full frame rates, even on a low spec PC.

I don't have problems with run NeoGeo games (Athlon 2.4). NeoRageX is died.

[ZeroPoint]

You don't happen to have a LCD Topgun connected to your system ?
If so, this gun seems to slow down latest mame realeses considerabely and for some reason not pre 0.0xx releases. Having this gun connected also slows down some regular games including hotd3. I have even seen a video on YouTube where some dude plays hotd3 with this gun and the game seems very slow there also. I tried both the original driver and smogs driver ( the best) and both do the same. Speed and sound problems in mame.

If you have a Topgun connected, try unplugging it. You have to restart your system before you try mame again. Your computer should kick ass for most games but don't expect all of them to run at full speed ?

Anyone else having this problem with this lightgun ? I don't really think it is a driver problem, but some USB hardware issue. This is because a friend om mine have a serious boot delay if the lightgun is connected, and this is before any driver is loaded.

[whynotpizza]

Actually this system is brand new, and no light guns are connected as of yet and still seeing the poor performance on a variety of mostly CHD games.

  David

[dmckean]

Try dropping back to MAME v106 before they implemented the new video system and see if it helps.

[RayB]

Um, Area 51 is just a game that plays video, while all those other examples are 3D. THat's why Area51 works, and the rest are too slow.

Could be you just don't know how to properly configure MAME? Is DirectX enabled? Direct3D? Are you forcing all games to play at some crazy high resolution?

more info.......
(Although as was said, MOST 3D games just won't work right).

[whynotpizza]

Hi Ray.

Hmm, good questions.

Here is some additional info on the setup:
  Display setting at 1600x1200
  Video Card is NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GS (512 MB GDDR)
  Mame32v109
  Mame32 settings:
    Videomode: Direct3D
    Direct3D: Use Bilinear filtering = checked (version 9)
   
Any suggestions or pointers on this 3D setup would be appreciated. I have just the defaults
at the moment, and it is not working at all.

Thanks

   David

[ahofle]

For one set the game resolution lower, like 640x480.

[whynotpizza]

Good suggestion, but still doesn't work. There a several settings which could also be tweaked, anyone have suggestions on the others and what "optimal" settings should be for game display?

Still have parent machine display properties on the PC set to 1600x1200...

Game Properties (SCREEN)
  Autoselect Aspect Ratio:  4:3 (checked)
  View: Standard
  Resolution Size: 640x480
  Refresh: Auto
  Switch resolutions to fit (checked)

Game Properties (DISPLAY)
  Enforce Aspect Ratio (checked)
  Throttle (checked)
  Rotation: Default
  Direct3D: Use Bilinear filtering (checked) Version: 9
  Videomode: Direct3D
  Bitmap prescaling: 1
  Gamma Correction: 1.00
  Brightness Correction: 1.00
  Contrast Correction: 1.00
  Pause Brightness: 0.65

Game Properties (ADVANCED)
  Triple Buffering (not-checked)
  Sync to monitor refresh (not-checked)
  Wait for vertical sync (not-checked)
  Frame Skipping (Draw Every Frame)
  Full Screen gama: 1.00
  Full screen brightness: 1.00
  Full screen contrast: 1.00

[RayB]

set Frame Skipping to Auto-Skip

And make sure you test with a game that is KNOWN to work well on a system like yours.

[ahofle]

Do you have 'screen' set to something like '\\.\DISPLAY1'?  IIRC, MAME32 ignores (or won't allow you to set) the resolution unless you pick a 'screen' other than 'auto'.  This is on the 'screen' tab in the options dialog.

Also, as RayB suggested, you should pick a game that is known to work on your system and tweak that.  There is no point trying to tweak settings for something like Gauntlet Legends or Prop Cycle for example.

[NickG]

Auto-Frameskip makes most games have smoother play.  There are a few exceptions depending on MAME version and hardware.  You may need to experiment with a few titles after you get your general defaults set.   

For an example, check answer in MAMEFAQ for cruisin' USA:
http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html#i08
Due to limitations in the hardware+code zero frameskip is actually more playable than auto-frameskip for this game and a few others.

[whynotpizza]

Thanks guys, I tried those settings last night, although was not successful with Hyperdrive and with Wayne G Hockey. Hmm. Will fiddle more later today.

   David

[destructor]

Good suggestion, but still doesn't work. There a several settings which could also be tweaked, anyone have suggestions on the others and what "optimal" settings should be for game display?

Still have parent machine display properties on the PC set to 1600x1200...

Game Properties (SCREEN)
  Autoselect Aspect Ratio:  4:3 (checked)
  View: Standard
  Resolution Size: 640x480
  Refresh: Auto
  Switch resolutions to fit (checked)

Game Properties (DISPLAY)
  Enforce Aspect Ratio (checked)
  Throttle (checked)
  Rotation: Default
  Direct3D: Use Bilinear filtering (checked) Version: 9
  Videomode: Direct3D
  Bitmap prescaling: 1
  Gamma Correction: 1.00
  Brightness Correction: 1.00
  Contrast Correction: 1.00
  Pause Brightness: 0.65

Game Properties (ADVANCED)
  Triple Buffering (not-checked)
  Sync to monitor refresh (not-checked)
  Wait for vertical sync (not-checked)
  Frame Skipping (Draw Every Frame)
  Full Screen gama: 1.00
  Full screen brightness: 1.00
  Full screen contrast: 1.00

Resolution as your desktop resolution (1600x1200).
Frameskip - never auto. Auto frameskipping will do randomly frames jumps while you play. You can change frameskip during play game (F8 and F9 keys). Run game with frameskip 0, next increase frameskip (F9) until game will be smooth. I think playing with frameskip higher than 6-7 is without sense, too big jump between frames.
You don't must back to version 106 for use old type of display. You can set this old type of display in options.
If is possible using RDTSC timing system try to enable it but I don't know if it's available in newer MAME versions.
Disable sound.

And one word more: you want to do something what is impossible.

[Tiger-Heli]

And one word more: you want to do something what is impossible.

Agreed - Go to http://www.stickfreaks.com/benchmark/search_all.php and select Intel P4, the only one tested happens to be a 3.2 and you can get a realistic idea what to expect.

Also look at the Core2Duo at 2900 Mhz numbers for PropCycle - 29 Fps or so.

There's a long way to go before most of the CHD games are playable.

One other thing - you could try running with Cheat turned on and using the Tilde menu to UNDERclock the games CPU's - sometimes gives a good speed increase, but can affect sound timing also.