Yet another newb designing cp

[mimic]

I'm looking for reviews or opinions on:
spinners (groovy game gear vs happ vs whoever else manufactures or sells their own product (Is oscar better than groovy game gear spinner? Is it still available?))
Trackballs (as above)
pushbuttons (as above)
I already ordered seimitsu joysticks, so I guess I'm good there.
Of course opinions of people who had a chance to test same piece of hardware, but from different manufacturers, are very welcome, as people's opinions who only had chance to test one manufacturer might be slightly biased.
If someone can post some links to more recent reviews with comparisons to different other brands, that would be great. Through search option I found a jungle of old reviews/threads, that might be hardly relevant nowdays.

[mimic]

No one here is using those things?

[leapinlew]

It's not that everyones ignoring you, it's just that it's obvious you've done no research.

If you had, you would know Oscar no longer makes spinners and there are several spinners on the market as well as DIY spinners.

There are different sizes of trackballs. If your talking about the more common 3" trackballs - you really have Happs and Betsons. Plenty of opinions but for the most part they are nearly identical. You may want to consider a hi-lip trackball if your going to use plexi on your CP - but you didn't specify.

I only use Happ microswitch pushbuttons.

[shardian]

Visit the hardware review forum.
Visit retroblast.com
Ask more detailed questions. Vague all-in-one questions don't get many answers, mainly because someone could write a book to answer your question...(Saint has actually done that already! )

If you are new, go buy the book and read it. Some of the info is outdated, but still serves as a great background building read.
Project Arcade - The book

[leapinlew]

Damnit! I always forget to mention the book.

[mimic]

Actually I did some research, that's why I decided to go with seimitsu joysticks rather than american brands. I read kowal's reviews on pushbuttons, and have an idea which are best, but he almost doesn't review american brands, and japanese are just too expensive. What companies manufacture their own pushbuttons, and which just resell? Does Ultimarc manufactures their own? How are they if they do?

Trackballs: can't find any comparison for example happ 3" vs groovy game gear Electric ICE-T™ Deluxe RGB Arcade Trackball. What to look for in a good trackball. I would like one that when mounted, doesn't show the plate from the top. Did not find so far info how to mount it, so that only ball shows through. I've never heard of Betsons trackballs, I'm going to google it now.

Spinner: I know Oscar is not making their spinners, but there is info on their page, that they might reopen? Was it a superior product (like many people claims that it was) or just a myth? How's groovy game gear spinner TurboTwist 2™ Arcade Spinner Control stacks up? Supposedly slick stick spinner is a piece of doo doo.

I still didn't decide as to the material I wanna mount in. I'll see when the joysticks get here.

[Fozzy The Bear]

Oscar will not be re-opening... The spinner at Happ is the SickSlick piece of Doo Doo....

So that narrows your choice down to one.... Try searching the forum here and reading the Wiki before you ask questions that have been answered hundreds of times before.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[mimic]

"...before you ask questions that have been answered hundreds of times before."

That's the problem, hundreds of times! It will confuse me more than help me, not to mention it will take so much time to read through it all, that by the time I finish I'll be building my own coffin rather than control panel. Look, no offense, but this is same story on every message board, people that been there for awhile get bored answering the same question and ask to do the research, why not put reviews in a sticky with most recent on the top rather than on the bottom and then send people to some kind of FAQ. How about a poll on every brand of push button, trackball, joystick & spinner I don't believe I saw one here, and if there is one then it's alredy buried down below on the page 500. Stick it! Why not make some kind of rating system and rate those items for everybody to see. All I'm doing is asking people who had their hands on expirence to just tell me how their products feel? The more opinions the more I'll get an idea how's the product. Who said that building a cp should be a grueling experience for every newb and everyone should go through hell to have one?

[ringram]

Happ buttons and 3" trackball. Happ Super Joysticks, Groovy game gear TT2 spinner and button encoder.

But that's just my 2 cents worth. There are many opinions.

Buttons are pretty much straight forward, but joysticks offer more variety of options/feel/etc. DON'T EVEN ASK which 4 way is best!

[mimic]

Thanks ringram. What made you go with that setup?

[shardian]

Happ buttons, and sticks (super, competition) ,and Wico sticks before them have been the industry standard. That is why people use them - it is what we used on the real machines.

BTW, have you got the book yet? It has compare and contrast chapters for buttons, joysticks, encoders, etc.

[mimic]

Happ buttons, and sticks (super, competition) ,and Wico sticks before them have been the industry standard. That is why people use them - it is what we used on the real machines.

BTW, have you got the book yet? It has compare and contrast chapters for buttons, joysticks, encoders, etc.

What you saying is a total generalization. There are joysticks that are better for shootem ups, 3D or 2D fighters. Different lenght of handles, or tops (ball or battop), shapes of rotation (square, round, diamond, octagon).
Some have longer degree when it engage than others, different springs etc etc.
I did some research on joysticks. Now I'd like to find some more on other parts

BTW I'll try to find the book, I didn't know it compares different manufacturers.

[ringram]

Happ 3" trackball:  it's popular, easy to find/purchase/get parts/good support/got it cheap on ebay

Happ buttons: cheap and easy to source

Happ Super's: good reviews, easy to source, inexpensive

GGG TT2: available, good review, inexpensive, good support, supports USB, comes with Optiwiz optical encoder (which will also support my trackball)

GGG Keywiz encoder: good reviews, easy to source, inexpensive, good support

for prices/availability, check BST forum, look up ponyboy and divemaster (and others). Good prices/service.

[shardian]

BTW I'll try to find the book, I didn't know it compares different manufacturers.

If I recall, the book does not talk about Sanwa/Seimitsu parts. It does discuss happ, ultimarc, and GGG, slickstick parts.

BTW, if you are asking for reviews or opinions, then criticize people for giving them maybe then you should do your own hands on review work. I, along with the majority of people who have been here a while have sourced many different brands and parts to play with to form our own opinions. You seem to have done some homework, and at some point only hands on experience will help you further decide. You can get used joystick lots for next to nothing on ebay, then you can sell off what you don't want/like here. You can buy used trackballs for cheap on ebay, get some experience working on them and then resell them if you want.
I hate to break it to ya, but you are gonna have to put some work and time into it at some point.

Oh and I'm sorry that this board and its search functions are not up to your standards for ease of use. It sure works just fine for us "old-timers" though.

[shardian]

What you saying is a total generalization. There are joysticks that are better for shootem ups, 3D or 2D fighters. Different lenght of handles, or tops (ball or battop), shapes of rotation (square, round, diamond, octagon).
Some have longer degree when it engage than others, different springs etc etc.
I did some research on joysticks. Now I'd like to find some more on other parts

Better and preferred are two different things. I prefer square restrictors over round, regardless of the game. Some people swear by round restrictors because of the fluid motion. I have wico 8-way leafswitch sticks in my top gunner cabinet. I am not a big fan of them all that much- I will probably end up switching them out with a pair of wico microswitch bodies. Some people look to the wico leaf joys as the holy grail of all joys.
There just is no clear-cut "best" joystick out there - it always boils down to preference.
This is the same with buttons. The most common button in arcades is the concave happ pushbutton. They also make a convex button, which some people absolutely cannot stand. Some people like them better for fighting games (tactile response, or some BS like that). Once again, personal preference.

Spinners- Each has its benefits and drawbacks. Different arcade games used different spinners. Arkanoid had a geared spinner, Major Havoc used a roller, Omega race sometimes had a pot based spinner. It depends on what games you are wanting to play that will determine what kind of spinner you want. That being said, the new TT2 spinner is the standard bearer (IMO, of course) due to its high resolution, small footprint, and neat optional accesories.

Trackballs - Yes, the Happ trackballs are usually considered the best performing of the lot. Betson makes a cheaper trackball, but works quite well too. The GGG Ice trackball has a lighter ball, and some people say it plays a little differently. All that being said, preference comes in to play as the biggest decision maker. Do you want a flashy trackball with changing lights? Are you on a budget? Do you want no frills high performance?

[mimic]

Shardian


First of all thanks for all the info in your last post. That is the kind of information I'm looking for. It's getting more and more clear that TT2 from GGG is the obvious winner in the spinners area.

With pushbuttons I read some reviews on Kowals web page, but he is lacking reviews of pushbuttons from US manufacturers. Kowal goes into details as to review differences as to quality of plastic, wheter it's very or less shiny, how fast will it engage how hard  they are,shape, how long they will last... I'd buy japanese pb's but they're pretty expensive. Supposedly Ultimarc sells PSL push buttons from Industraial Lorenzo Co, but I couldn't verify that on their web page.
If you could go a little more into detail as to why convex pbs are not very good. I found this on HAPP web page: "Uniqe, convex design for increased speed and accuracy" What does that mean?

BTW I'm mostly interested in shootem ups & platformers and then 3D fighters, not really into 2D fighters. I prefer Tempest over Arkanoid.

Look I'm really not trying to annoy anyone. I just wanted some answers and got generic we've answered those questions already, find the answers yourself. I apologize if it looked like I was critcizing anyone.

[leapinlew]

Look I'm really not trying to annoy anyone. I just wanted some answers and got generic we've answered those questions already, find the answers yourself. I apologize if it looked like I was critcizing anyone.

It did, and you were. Your asking for opinions on a very subjective nature. It's been debated about hundreds of times. What we all know, that you don't is that the research is half the fun. Enjoy the process. If there was a "best" way we would just tell you to use it.

[leapinlew]

4 way -
Wico - feels right for 4 way games

8 way -
Supers - they feel right on a fighter

Trackball -
Betson Imperial. I purchased it cheap - feels like a Happs trackball to me

Spinner -
Mouse Hack for a steering wheel - it's ok.
TT2 - it's good

[mimic]

4 way -
Wico - feels right for 4 way games

8 way -
Supers - they feel right on a fighter

Trackball -
Betson Imperial. I purchased it cheap - feels like a Happs trackball to me

Spinner -
Mouse Hack for a steering wheel - it's ok.
TT2 - it's good

Thanks
What's your preffered type of games and push buttons?

[leapinlew]

4 way -
Wico - feels right for 4 way games.
Vertical Cabinet - old school

8 way -
Supers - they feel right on a fighter
Fighters and 8 way games like robotron, crazy climber

Trackball -
Betson Imperial. I purchased it cheap - feels like a Happs trackball to me
Fun group games like World Class bowling, golden tee

Spinner -
Mouse Hack for a steering wheel - it's ok.
TT2 - it's good
Puzz Loop, Tempest, Kick, Arkanoid