Freebie damaged Ms Pac Cocktail. What to do now?

[Crowquill]

A collector friend of mine just gave me a water-damaged Ms Pac cocktail. It's definitely going to become my vertical emulator cab, but wondered if anyone had any suggestions how to tackle this thing with the shape it's in now.

Right now I'm thinking I might cut off the bottom 2-3 inches and build an inset base similar to what the Pac-Man cocktails had. I'm thinking I'd just cut some wide hardwood planks and paint them with a black enamel. I want to do wider control panels (trackball on P1 side, spinner on the other), but I'd prefer to do something non-destructive in case I ever want to put the more narrow original panels back on (which my friend still has).

I'd been planning on building a Midway-style cab out of materials salvaged from work (hence the Kinko's cocktail name), but now that I have a real Midway cab I'm probably going to at least put that one on hold. I'd even thought about just stealing the top, the coin door (rough as it is), and the vents to use on the new project, but It just seems cooler to have a cab with some history.

Anybody have any good suggestions for taking off the spray painted number? I'm guessing goof-off or some mild paint stripper would work best and not damage the laminate.

As you can see, the power supply, harness and monitor frame are still in there.

Oh yeah...the pics:

[SavannahLion]

As for the water damage, does the information presented here help any?
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=49927.0

[leapinlew]

I'd hate to say it - but I'd replace whole panels with some MDF or plywood. In fact, I might just only use the top, coin door and vents.

[Crowquill]

As for the water damage, does the information presented here help any?
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=49927.0

I've read that before. With my carpentry skills I doubt I'd be able to match it up completely. I think building a base inside the original side panels will look cleaner. That's also one reason I favor getting this thing useable. Even with it a bit beat, it'll probably look better than my scratch-built cab. Once I cut off the bottom, the only real damaged spot is a chip right above the hinge on the back side. That side is going to go up against the wall. It definitely needs a thorough cleaning. That's tomorrow's project.

Lew--in the grand scheme of things I know that's probably what I should do, but I really want to save this cab.

[leapinlew]

How about a 6" high row of diamond metal plating on the bottom?

[Wade]

I had one that was nearly as bad and I restored it, no big deal and didn't cost much either.  I have about $300 total invested.  I relaminated the whole thing, I'd suggest the same since yours has water damage and will require some repairs.

I'd keep stock sized panels and forget about a trackball.  Besides, MAME doesn't play the trackball games accurately anyway, and a Midway cocktail would look strange with panels large enough to house a trackball (IMO).

http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/MsPacCocktail

Wade

[ahofle]

Besides, MAME doesn't play the trackball games accurately anyway,

It doesn't? 

[Wade]

Besides, MAME doesn't play the trackball games accurately anyway,

It doesn't? 

No, there is a delay from the trackball inputs to the game, on every MAME version I've tried (from .36 up to 1.x).  It isn't that noticable if you haven't played the games in ages or have nothing to compare to.  Side-by-side Missile Command, Centipede, etc. there is a huge lag in the inputs in the MAME setup.

Before someone asks, it isn't something specific to my setup - it's easy to verify this problem by launching MAME with a mouse and observing the lag.

Wade

[Crowquill]

I think the wider trackball/spinner panel can work. It's an interesting design challenge. I'd originally planned on just widening the original control panel but realized that most of the space that your hands go in to play the game is created by the cut-out in the top edge. So I'm probably going to have to lower the widened CPs by that 1-inch. While it may look a little strange when directly compared to other Midway cocktails, I don't think it'll look bad at all. Since this is going to be my vertical MAME cab I want to be able to use the trackball for Centipede/Millipede. Player 2 side will have a spinner for playing Tempest, Arkanoid, etc. Basically it'll be laid out like this:

 O  ooo ( )

Joy-Buttons-TB/Spinner

In a related note, I've decided the bottom corner is just too trashed to try and save. Since this thing's made of plywood instead of particle board, the water damage doesn't really extend up that far on the cabinet. I can cut off about 2" to get into the good wood and laminate. I'll then build a base that raises it about 2.5". That way the CP is only .5" lower than usual and the table-top is only .5" taller than usual. The base will be built very similar to the Pac-man cocktail. It'll actually be almost identical to Kyle Lindstrom's Pac-Man plans since the corners were changed in it to be like the Ms Pac contruction.

I spent a bit of time stripping down the cabinet last night. Anybody need a Ms. Pac power supply and harness?

[Wade]

Sounds like you have a real good idea about what you want, and have a good plan to execute it (along with the cabinet repairs).  Should be a neat build up!

FWIW, the input delays aren't just with the trackballs, they were with anything that uses a spinner.  If you have any concerns about this at all, you might want to load up your target games and play them a bit and see if you notice or mind the lag.  If it doesn't bother you, then you're in good shape.  It has always annoyed me, but I don't know if it'd cause me to omit a trackball or spinner from a future project.

Wade

[Crowquill]

The lag isn't a big concern of mine. A slightly lagging trackball and spinner is better than none. Up until this project I've not been able to implement analog controls, so I was completely unaware of this. I'm sure that this could be fixed in later versions anyway.

I wonder if it matters what TYPE of inputs it's using (USB,PS/2, or serial) or the OS handling the device. It seems like a lag that is consistant throughout MAME's input code should definitely be addressed. Has it always been like this or is it just in newer versions?

[FrizzleFried]

Besides, MAME doesn't play the trackball games accurately anyway,

It doesn't? 

No, there is a delay from the trackball inputs to the game, on every MAME version I've tried (from .36 up to 1.x).  It isn't that noticable if you haven't played the games in ages or have nothing to compare to.  Side-by-side Missile Command, Centipede, etc. there is a huge lag in the inputs in the MAME setup.

Before someone asks, it isn't something specific to my setup - it's easy to verify this problem by launching MAME with a mouse and observing the lag.

Wade

Uh...I play Centipede, Marble Madness, Missle Command and many other trackball games and experience ZERO lag on my cabinet with a Happ Trackball.  Perhaps a setting?  Perhaps something else,  but I have been playing Centipede for 20 years and I am 100% positive that I would recognize it if there were even a few milliseconds of lag.  There is none,  I can assure  you of that.  I am using MAME version .108u1 I believe it is on my cabinet with the trackball.

[FrizzleFried]

Sounds like you have a real good idea about what you want, and have a good plan to execute it (along with the cabinet repairs).  Should be a neat build up!

FWIW, the input delays aren't just with the trackballs, they were with anything that uses a spinner.  If you have any concerns about this at all, you might want to load up your target games and play them a bit and see if you notice or mind the lag.  If it doesn't bother you, then you're in good shape.  It has always annoyed me, but I don't know if it'd cause me to omit a trackball or spinner from a future project.

Wade

Hmmm...and BOTH my spinners on BOTH my cabinets experience zero lag.  I think it is in your head my friend.  I play Tempest as well at home as I do at the arcade and if anything my home spinner is MORE accurate and sensitive as it can be adjusted...

[Wade]

The lag isn't a big concern of mine. A slightly lagging trackball and spinner is better than none. Up until this project I've not been able to implement analog controls, so I was completely unaware of this. I'm sure that this could be fixed in later versions anyway.

I wonder if it matters what TYPE of inputs it's using (USB,PS/2, or serial) or the OS handling the device. It seems like a lag that is consistant throughout MAME's input code should definitely be addressed. Has it always been like this or is it just in newer versions?

Since it hasn't been fixed by now, I doubt they ever WILL fix it, disappointing.

I tried DOS and Windows MAME versions from around 0.36 through over 1.0 with PS/2, serial, and USB trackballs/mice, and they ALL did it.  I couldn't think of any other reason the lag would be there, other than it is simply the way the basic MAME analog routines are written.  Good luck getting them to fix it, but who knows, if enough people are aware of the problem and complain, maybe they'll correct it.

Wade

[Wade]

Sounds like you have a real good idea about what you want, and have a good plan to execute it (along with the cabinet repairs).  Should be a neat build up!

FWIW, the input delays aren't just with the trackballs, they were with anything that uses a spinner.  If you have any concerns about this at all, you might want to load up your target games and play them a bit and see if you notice or mind the lag.  If it doesn't bother you, then you're in good shape.  It has always annoyed me, but I don't know if it'd cause me to omit a trackball or spinner from a future project.

Wade

Hmmm...and BOTH my spinners on BOTH my cabinets experience zero lag.  I think it is in your head my friend.  I play Tempest as well at home as I do at the arcade and if anything my home spinner is MORE accurate and sensitive as it can be adjusted...

I'd believe this ONLY if I saw it for myself.  I suspect you haven't done a comparison side-by-side, have you?  It may not be entirely obvious if you haven't played the games back-to-back.

Every MAME setup I've ever played had this same problem.  I've also tried it myself on dozens of computers/mice.  I don't talk out of ---my bottom--- and I don't cry wolf, and I'm certain of this problem.

The only exception I could think of is if they fixed it in a VERY recent version of MAME.  I have tried over 1.0 but I haven't tried the very latest.

Wade

[gijedi]

Try restoring the missing pieces with bondo.  When it dries you can sand it down to shape.

[ahofle]

What kind of delay are we talking about here?  Millseconds?  I tried several trackball and spinner games.  I don't notice much lag at all, certainly not enough to make a difference in score.  I notice about the same minimal lag with any button press, not just analog controls too.  Do you happen to have 'steady key' enabled?  I believe it helps with multiple key presses at the expense of a little bit of lag.  If the miniscule lag I'm seeing troubles you this much you must be a world record caliber player. 

[FrizzleFried]

Well,  perhaps it is a PS2 vs USB interface issue?  BTW:  Where are you getting MAME 1.0?  Last I checked they were only at .114u1?      

BTW:  I don't have any experience with mame prior to .106 so I am not sure if this issue is an old one that has been rectified or not,  but I just checked to make sure and when I move my trackball the response is INSTANT...same goes with my spinners...both of them.
 

[Crowquill]

Try restoring the missing pieces with bondo.  When it dries you can sand it down to shape.

The worst part of that is to then find a way to finish it to match the rest of the cab which means I'd have to buy new laminate or paint it. The Midway laminate isn't the prettiest laminate out there (it was pretty contemporary in 1981), but I like that it's original.

I'm also (obviously) not too worried about perfectly restoring this cab to it's original shape and condition. I like the character that a slightly dinged-up cabinet has. On very few occasions did I play a cab that looked like new. I started really getting into arcade games in the late 80's. Most cabinets I played were crappy conversions. I completely became addicted to Shinobi that was in a williams converted cab with a pac-man maze burned into the monitor. While I won't be trying to re-create every aspect of that cab, I guess I consider slight "wear and tear" as part of the experience.

What kind of delay are we talking about here?  Millseconds?  I tried several trackball and spinner games.  I don't notice much lag at all, certainly not enough to make a difference in score.  I notice about the same minimal lag with any button press, not just analog controls too.  Do you happen to have 'steady key' enabled?  I believe it helps with multiple key presses at the expense of a little bit of lag.  If the miniscule lag I'm seeing troubles you this much you must be a world record caliber player. 

Maybe we should start a new thread about this. Maybe even a poll 

[Wade]

Ahofle: Probably milliseconds.  I'm not that great of a player, but when I play a game on MAME and notice a difference, it's disappointing.  I noticed these problems when not looking for them, which tells me that the problem is pretty gross.  Later confirmed them side-by-side with the original, just to make sure I wasn't imagining things.

I haven't noticed a lag with buttons, but that doesn't mean it's not there.  Just means I haven't noticed it.

Frizzlefried: I tried USB, PS/2, and Serial... same problem.  But, since you have only used .106 and later, maybe it *IS* something fixed in a later version.  Latest I've used was a very early 0.1 version.

Crowquill: When I redid my MsPac I picked up enough "remnant" laminate to do the whole game, for not much money from a cabinet shop.  It is also a nicer looking pattern, though I would have gone with something that looked more original if they'd had a remnant of it.  Anyway, I had to do some bondo work too, that's why I laminated it.  I'm just suggesting that you check some local shops for cheap remanants if you're open to the option of repair and relamination - it might not cost much at all.

TTYL,
Wade

[shardian]

I'll be doing parts express woodgrain vinyl on mine once the sides are repaired. Laminate would definitely be better/more durable. I don't have the laminate option due to the way the pacman cocktail is constructed.

[Wade]

Shardian, you could use laminate, but it'd be a very tricky install.  The express vinyl would probably be a lot easier, though.  Check plastics specialties up on 29th near where you work, that's where I usually get my remnants.  They sometimes have vertical grade too, which is a lot thinner than usual formica.

Wade

[shardian]

Shardian, you could use laminate, but it'd be a very tricky install.  The express vinyl would probably be a lot easier, though.  Check plastics specialties up on 29th near where you work, that's where I usually get my remnants.  They sometimes have vertical grade too, which is a lot thinner than usual formica.

Wade

That would just be too much work on a pacman cocktail,and the results probably wouldn't justify it anyways. I would have to strip off the existing laminate - it would stick out too far otherwise. I would also have to cut the laminate to exact measurements, and not screw up at all when applying it - difficult for a pro, impossible for me.

With the vinyl, I can apply it then run a razor blade down the small gap between the side and the corner molding. Easy as pie.

[Wade]

Well I can't argue with that, the vinyl would probably be a heck of a lot easier! (for your pacman cocktail cabinet versus a MsPac, due to the design differences)

I'm a BIG fan of formica style hard laminate, and have used it on both my VR Twins, my Missile Command, a Galaga, my T&F cocktail, and my MsPac cocktail.  I've never used the stick-on vinyl before, so I can't give a true comparison of the pros and cons, but I suspect formica is more durable but stick-on is easier for most people.

TTYL,
Wade

[Crowquill]

I'll be doing parts express woodgrain vinyl on mine once the sides are repaired. Laminate would definitely be better/more durable. I don't have the laminate option due to the way the pacman cocktail is constructed.

This might actually be an option. I wonder how durable this stuff would be. 10mil isn't THAT thin, but it is vinyl. What would match the closest though? It looks like the teak might be the closest, but if I'm going to recover the whole thing, maybe I should make it a little more contemporary. What type of wood is the laminate on the 20th anniversary cocktails? I know it's different than the originals. Cherry maybe. Here's the choices:

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?webpage_id=3&SO=2&DID=7&CATID=29&ObjectGroup_ID=135

[shardian]

Teak is what I am going with.