Running a PIII

[shorthair]

Well, I got my PIII (733mhz) up and working, finally, and with the graphics update, it gives it 32mb of video, which seems just fine to run .55 all the way through Macross. However, it won't stretch.  Will nLite help with this?...something else?

[blueznl]

P3 = CPU, but what's the video card / chip?

[RayB]

Video memory is useless unless its a version of MAME that uses DirectX.
Otherwise your main system RAM is what gets used.

[shorthair]

Ah, Dx...I forgot about that.  That might be the saving grace.  The 32mb is integrated for the 815 chipset. I put an AGP 64MB ATI VE and that worked better, as well as allowing hwstretch, but it's temperamental (didn't used to be), and since I had an Nvidia Ti200 128mb I thought I'd try that out, and while it's faster, it doesn't automatically stretch. But maybe it's the Dx, and also I just found out it's a different Nvidia card than I thought and may have the wrong drivers. Thanks, and stay tuned.

PS: even the 32mb would run the new Daphne engine at XGA.

[shorthair]

Well, I think I've gotten all I can out of it. I think the Dx was the ticket for the Nvidia card (though did nothing for the integrated video - and don't know why there was no issue with hwstretch with the ATI that is half the memory of the Nvidia, and a bit older...), and I can run up to .89 through about the early 90s without any glitches or very minor ones. With the ATI, I can run .69 . I'm using Mame32, for convenience - and that even in Atomic cmd-line mame creates this loooong scrolling cmd box till it finds the game; yet with Mame32 it doesn't do this.

I guess some smaller fe would free up a little power? And this just occured to me: even though the Dx9 installed an all, maybe it's too late a version to affect the integrated video?

[shorthair]

Actually, RayB, I think I don't quite understood, or understand still, what you said there. But it did help me some, anyway.

[blueznl]

P3-800 with GeForce256 did run Mame 0.8x (forgot the version) reasonably, though not stellar results, so nothing too fancy 

[shorthair]

No, I wouldn't think so, but a little better than what I've heard of, generally, of PIII's. I don't have the knowledge and expertise to do much more than combine components and such, so I have no idea how some do some of things I've read. I just wanted to show what I'd gotten and see if there was a little more.

[vidmouse]

I'm currently running a 300Mhz PII with 512MB RAM and 32MB ATI card... can only get up to about MAME v.69 before it slows too much.

Am considering getting a 700-900Mhz PIII for this same rig,
do you think it would get me up to MAME v.8x with decent speed?

[shorthair]

As has been said here and Mameworld, it depends on the games you're playing. If you're playing anything above '83...or '85...on that PII, I wouldn't know how you're doing it. The folks in software, and those at Mameworld could give you a hand.

[vidmouse]

Actually, with v.69 it can run some '94 and '98 games ok, but the '98 games are pushing it.  Might be the amount of memory I'm using.

Darn.  Just read the mobo users manual and can't upgrade the processor like I thought... only goes to 333Mhz on a slot 1.  Don't know if anyone else ignored this and ever tried a PIII?  The mobo is a QDI Legend-V

[RayB]

Shorthair:
If you're using a Windows version of MAME, with DirectX enabled, then what happens is that it takes advantage of some buffering into the video card's RAM and then it's blitted to the screen directly from there (fast). Whereas otherwise every screen draw gets buffered in regular RAM, and gets transferred over to the video card which is a little slower because it goes through the PCI or AGP bus every screen draw.

[shorthair]

Oh.  Well, I d/l'd directx 9c, I think. But I don't know how much it affected the cards. It allowed the 128mb Nvidia to use hwstretch. The 64mb ATI 7000 I don't know if it helped at all. Maybe an earlier version of Dx for that?

vidmouse: how are you getting that capability out of a PII?...is it strictly DOS?

[vidmouse]

Here's my system specs:

Pentium II slot 1 300MHz CPU
512 MB ram (EDO?  think so)
QDI Legend-V mobo
Diamond Viper II Z200 32MB AGP multimedia video card
(running s-video to a 27" Sony Trinitron tv)
Creative Labs model CT4750 sound card
8.4GB HDD Western Digital (probably around 7200 speed)
Windows 98 (NOT SE.. don't have SE)
MAME v0.69 with
MAMEWah v0.97 as a frontend ... I know there are later versions of MAMEWah but I liked how easy this one is to manipulate different layouts.


Can also run
Visual Pinball (slows on some of the marquee-intensive tables)
Atari 2600 Emulators
Arcadia 2001 emulator  (yeah I know this is an odd duck, but I have an uncle who worked on the original home console and games when it first came out)
Sega Genesis Emulator
ZSNES emulator (for some reason SNES9x doesn't work)

Ultimarc IPAC 4 with only two players hooked up so far

Everything runs fine in Win98, don't have to reboot to DOS to get it to run.
I did have to back-convert the roms to v0.69 format though, used
CLRMamePro to do this.  It didn't do a 100% great job... some roms
do not work, but most of the ones I play do.

I'm using my PII mainly because it's what I had (in pieces) lying around.  My cab, currently under construction, will be designed so that I can swap out PCs later if I get a more powerful one.

[shorthair]

I'm forgetting OS. This was a hand-me-down and happened to have XP on it, which was upgraded for system consistency in the work being done in the plant, but said work wasn't processor intensive. I thought of putting 98 on it, but don't have it easily at hand. I bet using 98 and mamewah would bump mine up to at least .89 or better on the 64mb ATI. (I like at least .69 and up cos I like RGB sharp, as well as 'skip_disclaimer' and 'skip_gameinfo' which I'm not sure the older ones will do, even, as I made changes in the default cfg file in Mame32 .59, then copied it to the cmd version cfg file, but it wouldn't read it...unless it's something else, but I don't know what. Ini's are far more easily changeable in Windows.)

[vidmouse]

Win98 has a few other advantages as well:
For some reason, I get some kind of error in WinXP when I try to exit out of Visual Pinball, even with updated vbs files and so on.
WinXP also has some problems running the Arcadia 2001 emulator as well... have to use dosbox to do it.

Older MAME cmd line versions (pre v37b16?) used a mame.cfg file, the newer versions (not sure when it started) used mame.ini.  I don't think you can shut off the skip gameinfo stuff on the older versions unless you download the source code, modify it, and recompile.  The mame.ini files with the skip disclaimer options started at version 0.63.

Not sure what you meant by RGB sharp

[gonzo90017]

Hey vidmouse mind sharing your mame ini file. I'm amazed you can run such a late version of mame with a 300mhz. I'm currently working with a 400mhz. I'm using the following emus in order:

Raine: all supported games + CPS1 and CPS2
Winkawaks: Neo Geo
For all remaining roms I use:
Mame 37b16
Pmame 59
Fastmame 71
Fastmame 84

I kept switching between winkawaks and raine for CPS 1 and 2 but I finally settled on Raine because I liked the way it displays CPS 2 games at 640x480 with max stretch. Since Cps2 games ran at 384x224. I don't mind the bars on the top and the bottom sort of like watching a widescreen movie on a 4:3 set. I think it looks better then running it at 640x480 stretch full screen. I'm also going to use a program called CPUFSB to overclock it to 500mhz but maybe just for 59 and up. I'm using a stripped down version of xp with AtomicFe as my frontend since it can display all games under one list. By the way can you run Final Fight and other CPS2 games at 60fps? Just wondering since thats the reason I switched raine and winkawaks since mame couldn't handle them without alot of frameskipping.

[vidmouse]

Here you go... had to change the filename extension to txt
it's the ini file.

Nothing special I really changed here, but hopefully it will
help.  It does run CPS2 games as well as I can figure...
SFA3, MSH, MVSC, and so on...
near as I can tell, Final Fight works too.

[RayB]

My guess is he's not getting full frame rate...

[vidmouse]

Could be... I never ran a benchmark on it, just
a few perceptible speed tests with different MAME versions...
v0.69 was the highest version I could bear for the aforementioned
games I was really interested in playing.
I don't really notice the frameskip but will benchmark
at a later date, out of curiosity.

[Tiger-Heli]

Darn.  Just read the mobo users manual and can't upgrade the processor like I thought... only goes to 333Mhz on a slot 1.  Don't know if anyone else ignored this and ever tried a PIII?  The mobo is a QDI Legend-V

Check on the mobo manufacturers site for a bios upgrade that might allow faster processors.  There were also slot adapters that used faster processors, but don't know how easy they will be to find now.

[vidmouse]

Thanks for the tip.  Unfortunately here's all I could find, it
doesn't sound like much of a speed increase (going Celeron
even at a faster speed) and definitely no mention of going
to a PIII in there...

http://www.qdigrp.com/qdisite/eng/support/d_lx5.htm

[Tiger-Heli]

Then again, you will likely have a hard time finding a slot 1 Pentium III even if the BIOS did support it.

You have roughly three options:

1)  Stay with an older version of MAME.

2)  Find something along the lines of a used 1Ghz-1.5Ghz machine (should be under $100, and that's being generous.

3)  Buy a new motherboard, CPU, and memory - You can put together a very capable MAME system for around $200.

[gonzo90017]

If you feel a little daring I suggest you try out CPUFSB http://www.cpufsb.de/index.html with that you i'm sure you can bump your processor up to 400mhz. I would also suggest using Raine32 for the games it supports. It can be run from a command line just by putting -n before loading the rom. This tells it not to load the gui. By not loading the gui Esc exits the emulator.
You should give it a try you'll be suprised at the speed increase! I posted my raine.ini from mamewah in case you want to give it a try. (renamed to .txt for posting)

[shorthair]

vidmouse: RGB sharp is a scanline effect. In the ini, the effect is 'sharp'. (What's interesting is that in later versions - not sure, but perhaps after .89 or so - you don't have to switch on 'scanlines', you just have to select the effect, and it'll enable it.) I'd forgotten that effects can take up a considerable amount of processing power, so not using RGB sharp, I can go up to at least .69 on the 64mb ATI card.

I was always unhappy with scanlines as a kid, especially when games like Crystal Castles, Bubbles, Congo Bongo, etc came out. (I remember asking somebody about the lines, but don't think it was the right person; should've asked my dad.) So, not being able to use 'sharp' means it's a slight fuzzy, but there's no 'mask' in the way of the graphics. As this is a secondary (or tertiary) computer, I just wanted to get it game-ready, and then see what else I could do. Doing all that DOS stuff and what-have-you is a bit more than I'm interested in, but I thought I'd ask.

[IG-88]

Hey gonzo. On that CPUFSB, does the shareware version work OK or should you buy the registered one?

[gonzo90017]

Try the shareware first to make sure it works with your motherboard. If it works buy it since the shareware version doesn't save your settings so you would have to set it up every time. Also one very annoying thing about it is that there seems to be no way to make the program start minimized. The only way is to force it. Here's how it's done. Create a shortcut of CPUFSB then right click on it and select properties. Under Run select minimized then click on apply and then ok. This also works with any other program!

[psychotech]

Then again, you will likely have a hard time finding a slot 1 Pentium III even if the BIOS did support it.
...

Well yes, or maybe not. You might get lucky.. I bought an old motherboard for 5 Euros with both the Celeron (PPGA something?) and Pentium 3 (SLOT 1) sockets ..and it even had a working Celeron 500MHZ installed already!

Now, that wasn't what I had in mind -so I bought a slot 1 500MHz Pentium 3 processor for another 5 EUR. And these both I found at a local computer stores within two weeks.

It'll depend on where and when you're searching/buying the stuff..

Good luck!

[vidmouse]

When I was thinking about it (before I looked at my mobo manual, see above),
I found a few on Ebay... search for "pentium 3 slot 1" or "pentium iii slot 1"

(O/T):  Did a little more work on my cab today (vs the pc) made some
slot cutting errors, a bit of a drawback.  Time to go back to the
hw store for some bondo ... sigh.  Would just like to get more
than my mockup playable.

[shorthair]

Ya, I got a long moment of inspiration to make, at least, a case for my monitor, then ran out of steam cos what I'd really like is something like this Gauntless panel is made out of. (The monitor case looks cool, too, but totally contrasts with the rest of the cab. Square.)

[vidmouse]

That looks more like a plastic composite... can't imagine
doing that in wood... you'd have to get a special mold
or spare cab.

Found a picture of the prototype I'm playing right now,
the joysticks and buttons, pc, tv, and speakers will eventually
go into the final cab.

[shorthair]

Mmm, I bet someone like Kneivel could do a job like that - but I'd prefer composite, actually. A friend of mine messes around a lot with resins and kevlar and stuff, so the knowledge isn't a block. It's how to make a mold. But I'm thinking about it.

[vidmouse]

Funny, Kneivel's Neon Mame is part of the inspiration for my
Arcadia 2007 cab (project not submitted yet).  I won't go as
far as he did, but the color scheme is similar.

I seem to remember in shop class, you could make a cheap
one-time mold out of compacted powder around a wood
mock-up.  No sense making an aluminum or likewise
prototype molding tool if you're only going to give it one
shot.  However, in this case we were molding screwdrivers
not huge boxes...

Let me ask a friend of mine who's in the molding business
and see what she thinks...

[shorthair]

That's very neighborly of you.

[vidmouse]

No problem.  Unfortunately this is the reply I got:

"The cheapest molds I have dealt with were made from aluminum but those were for prototypes.  And then he would still need a molding machine.  Not sure how he would be able to make it for just a one time deal.  May be cheaper to find an arcade machine that does not work and use the parts that are plastic for his model."

[shorthair]

WoW, fast turn-around.  Yeah, that's what I heard many many years ago and didn't think it'd changed. Thanks, though.

[Tiger-Heli]

You might be able to do something like FozzyTheBear was doing with the TRON handle repros - there's a long thread about it.

[shorthair]

Yeah, I immediately think of that thread in this sort of thing. One thing is, I don't have a shop, so a decent work space, let alone fumes, is an issue.