LCD specs needed for MAME

[Squeeky]

Well I'm looking to duplicate a Woody cab, and starting to seek the most expensive part of the build the LCD Monitor.  I wanted to go atleast 19", but don't have the funds for 22".  Would the specs on this model work?  My only concern is the contrast ration of 500:1.

Norcent LM-965WA 19" Widescreen LCD Monitor
Versatile widescreen functionality, superb image quality and eye-catching industrial design

19" TFT Active Matrix Widescreen LCD Display
Resolution 1440 x 900
Contrast ratio 500:1
Brightness 300Cd/m2
Response time 8ms
Internal Speakers (1 Watt x 2)
DVI connection
Pixel Pitch ( 0.285mm x 0.285mm)
1 year warranty
Dimensions with stand (W) 17.0"x(H) 15"x(D) 8.0" (10.3 lbs)


Thanks
Squeeky,

[crpngdth2001]

Just me personally, but I wouldn't use a widescreen LCD for a cab, I'd rather use a 19" 4:3 Standard LCD.

[Jeff AMN]

Just me personally, but I wouldn't use a widescreen LCD for a cab, I'd rather use a 19" 4:3 Standard LCD.

I agree.

[(+_+)]

Unless you go 22" + on the widescreen, your vertical games will be very short due to the aspect ration. I've got a 26" widescreen LCD and I think it looks great.

[Tiger-Heli]

Where are you getting it, and how much is it?

[crpngdth2001]

If you're buying a new one, and want to go cheap, many review this one highly:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824254009

3 Year Warranty, DVI and VGA, Non-Widescreen. $174.99 - $40MIR = $134.99 thru 4/30. $13.97 3 Business Day Shipping.

[Squeeky]

Currently the above model is $105 shipped from staples AC/AR.  It is hard to beat $100 for a 19" lcd that is new.  Any opinion would be great however.

[hbm*rais]

Just me personally, but I wouldn't use a widescreen LCD for a cab, I'd rather use a 19" 4:3 Standard LCD.

Standard LCD's are usually 5:4. Which can be a good compromise for vertical and horizontal games.

No point on the widescreen, really. Youl just end up with wasted space on black borders or with a horribly deformed image.

[ahofle]

Currently the above model is $105 shipped from staples AC/AR.  It is hard to beat $100 for a 19" lcd that is new.  Any opinion would be great however.

Can you provide a link?  I couldn't find it on staples.com.

[Tiger-Heli]

Currently the above model is $105 shipped from staples AC/AR.  It is hard to beat $100 for a 19" lcd that is new.  Any opinion would be great however.

Yep, that seems like a good price.  I just have seen people looking at say a 19-inch at BestBuy for $199 and complaining they couldn't spring for a 22-inch, and wanted to make sure you weren't one of those.

[Squeeky]

Search staples.com for model #, it's $199.

Add paper clips to get just above $200

There is $50 off $200 coupon on ebay for roughly $4

Then $50 MIR, ends up like $105 shipped

[Knievel]

A 19" widescreen is really smaller than a regular 19". You get more width (which you don't need) but your going to lose height. I think the height is comparable to a 17".

I'm buying 20" LCD's up in Canada for $250 or less, which means you should be able to find one there for around $200 or less.

Your monitor size is something you shouldn't skimp on, you will regret it later.

[RayB]

For best picture and fast response time, go for the Samsung 206BW, or 226BW for widescreen.

[blueznl]

Seen some 19" for 170 euro retail in Europe, saw some commercials for 21" widescreen for a little over 200.

THere are three situations where a widescreen may make sense:

1. If you want your system to double up as an extra televison :-)

2. If you want to play darius multi screen style...

3. If you can get Mame so crazy as to have instruction cards left and right of the playfield.

(Now that option 3 is quite interesting, but I dunno if it's possible...)

[RayB]

*edit* could have sworn I clicked MODIFY, not Quote. 

[javeryh]

Just me personally, but I wouldn't use a widescreen LCD for a cab, I'd rather use a 19" 4:3 Standard LCD.

Standard LCD's are usually 5:4. Which can be a good compromise for vertical and horizontal games.

No point on the widescreen, really. Youl just end up with wasted space on black borders or with a horribly deformed image.

Is that really true?  How could I not know that?  Hmmm... I'm a little disappointed finding this out.  I'm using a Dell LCD monitor in my cabinet but I'm having display issues (the picture does not go to the edges and seems a little bit squashed/deformed) and I don't know how to fix it.  This is what I'm talking about:

 

Am I totally screwed?  Is there a way to get it to display to the edges? it's not just the top and bottom - I lose about an inch on each side too...   

[Tiger-Heli]

Is that really true?  How could I not know that?  Hmmm... I'm a little disappointed finding this out.  I'm using a Dell LCD monitor in my cabinet but I'm having display issues (the picture does not go to the edges and seems a little bit squashed/deformed) and I don't know how to fix it.  This is what I'm talking about:

Have you tried setting

aspect  5:4

in your mame.ini file?

[javeryh]

Is that really true?  How could I not know that?  Hmmm... I'm a little disappointed finding this out.  I'm using a Dell LCD monitor in my cabinet but I'm having display issues (the picture does not go to the edges and seems a little bit squashed/deformed) and I don't know how to fix it.  This is what I'm talking about:

Have you tried setting

aspect  5:4

in your mame.ini file?

No... that would be too easy... thanks I'll give it a try. 

Would this distort the image though?  I think I'd rather keep it at 4:3 if it looks strange.  Also, I'm thinking now I'll just cut the posterboard bezel to cover the part of the screen the image does not stretch to if I can't fix it or get it to display the way I want.

[Tiger-Heli]

Would this distort the image though?  I think I'd rather keep it at 4:3 if it looks strange.  Also, I'm thinking now I'll just cut the posterboard bezel to cover the part of the screen the image does not stretch to if I can't fix it or get it to display the way I want.

We're sorta hijacking the original thread, but . . .

It might, but then windows would display strange as well.

Did you try all the suggestions here:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=63642.msg634843#msg634843

What is the model number of the LCD screen?  I want to look up the native resolution of the monitor and go from there.

I have never heard standard non-widescreen LCD's were 5:4 before, but I really only use CRT screens, so don't know.

Questions:

Does Windows display to the screen edge on it?  If not, have you tried the little adjustment buttons for screen sizing (I assume it has those).

When you run MAME, does the game options screen go full screen (get an official binary if needed to test)?  (I am assuming it does not.)

Try using a 4:3 (1024x768), (1280x960) desktop wallpaper image and displaying it full-screen in Irfanview.  Open Irfanview - Set Options - Properties - Full Screen - Stretch all images to full-screen.  Then load the image and press Enter.  Press X to exit Fullscreen.  Report results here.  This is a quick and dirty check on your screen properties and setup.  If your screen is 4:3 and configured properly, it should fill the screen.  If it is 5:4 it should only be letterboxed on two sides (not all four).

HTH.

[javeryh]

AWESOME.  Thank you for the tips.  I'm at work right now but I will definitely check this out tonight and post the results here.  I do know that Windows displays to the edges on all 4 sides and nothing looks distorted at all.  The picture is actually quite nice.  This is my exact monitor:  http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/monitor_e196fp?c=us&cs=22&l=en&s=dfh.

Thank you!!

[Tiger-Heli]

That helped - according to this site http://reviews.cnet.com/Dell_E196FP_19_Flat_Panel_Monitor_3_Yr_Warranty_Analog/4505-3174_7-31626247.html native screen resolution is 1280x1024, which is indeed 5:4.

In Windows, you likely can't notice the difference between 1280x960 (4:3) and 1280x1024 (5:4).  Likely you won't in MAME either.

If you absolutely don't want stretching, it should be possible in MAME to get the image only letterboxed on two sides rather than all four, but we'll worry about that after your test results come back.

[hbm*rais]

Well, the first thing to do would be to discover what kind of LCD you really have. It *looks* like a widescreen to me, but that may just be the picture.

Try to find out what is its native resolution.

In the test suggested above, the picture will not show letterboxed if you have a 5:4 LCD configured to a 4:3 resolution. Mine is 1280x1024, if I configure it to 1280x960, 4:3 pictures will appear slightly stretched, not letterboxed. Whatever resolution you choose on a LCD, it will always be converted internally to the native resolution in a way to cover the entire physical screen.

If you're getting black borders both horizontally *and* vertically, I'd say you have MAME set to use the closest round resolution to the original game (I think it's called Clean Stretch). For instance Pac-Man (288x244) would be strethed (x4) to a 1152x976 rectangle with black borders completing the difference to 1280x1024.

As you say beyond the problem with the borders, the image looks the wrong aspect ratio, i'd say you have the wrong native resolution configured in Windows or the wrong aspect ratio informed to MAME.

I hope that helps.

Just me personally, but I wouldn't use a widescreen LCD for a cab, I'd rather use a 19" 4:3 Standard LCD.

Standard LCD's are usually 5:4. Which can be a good compromise for vertical and horizontal games.

No point on the widescreen, really. Youl just end up with wasted space on black borders or with a horribly deformed image.

Is that really true?  How could I not know that?  Hmmm... I'm a little disappointed finding this out.  I'm using a Dell LCD monitor in my cabinet but I'm having display issues (the picture does not go to the edges and seems a little bit squashed/deformed) and I don't know how to fix it.  This is what I'm talking about:

 

Am I totally screwed?  Is there a way to get it to display to the edges? it's not just the top and bottom - I lose about an inch on each side too...   

[Tiger-Heli]

Well, the first thing to do would be to discover what kind of LCD you really have. It *looks* like a widescreen to me, but that may just be the picture.
Try to find out what is its native resolution.

Javery said before it is not widescreen, and if the Cnet page is correct, it's native resolution is 1280x1024.

In the test suggested above, the picture will not show letterboxed if you have a 5:4 LCD configured to a 4:3 resolution. Mine is 1280x1024, if I configure it to 1280x960, 4:3 pictures will appear slightly stretched, not letterboxed. Whatever resolution you choose on a LCD, it will always be converted internally to the native resolution in a way to cover the entire physical screen.

I didn't realize this.  Could you post the settings your are using with your screen.  That might be the easiest thing for Javery, since you both appear to have 1280x1024 screens.

If you're getting black borders both horizontally *and* vertically, I'd say you have MAME set to use the closest round resolution to the original game (I think it's called Clean Stretch). For instance Pac-Man (288x244) would be strethed (x4) to a 1152x976 rectangle with black borders completing the difference to 1280x1024.

As you say beyond the problem with the borders, the image looks the wrong aspect ratio, i'd say you have the wrong native resolution configured in Windows or the wrong aspect ratio informed to MAME.

Both of those make sense.

[u_rebelscum]

Standard LCD's are usually 5:4.

Errr, small point:

Most 'standard' 17" & 19" LCDs are 5:4, and have a native res of 1280x1024. (probably 99%)

Most 'standard' 15" & 20" (& greater) LCDs are 4:3, and have 1024x768 & 1600x1200 respectively.

The most common LCD over the last year or two are 17" & 19", so it might seem that all non-widescreen LCDs to 5:4, but that's not quite true.

FWIW, CRTs also had 5:4 aspect 17" & 19" monitors, but they were not as common as 4:3 of the same size, and usually on the cheap end.  Again, look at the native res and if it was 1280x1024, it was a 5:4 monitor.

[hbm*rais]

Now, that could be a problem. You see, my LCD is on my desktop, where I use MAME32. My cabinet uses FastMAME, with a CRT. Both of these probably have different options from whatever Javery is using (I don't think he stated what he's using).

But I can try to help:

First things first: Make sure Windows is configured to your native resolution (1280x1024, apparently, but I would double check). Every thing will go wrong if this one is wrong.

The Options, as they appear in MAME32:

Display
  Clean Stretch = None
  Rotation = Clockwise
  Enforce Aspect Ratio  Marked

Advanced
  Switch Resolution to fit  Unmarked
  Size = 1280x1024
  Stretch Using Hardware  Marked
     Aspect Ratio  4x3

That, adapted as necessary to the mame.ini file, should give you an image that fills your screen completely.

or...

use "Aspect Ratio 5x4" and you'll have perfectly 4:3 image (the correct aspect ratio) on your 5:4 LCD. (Yes, that seems counter intuitive, but that's right)

Now some notes:

That's not, in my opinion, the settings that produce the best image, but that should be enough to get you past the black borders stuff, then you can experiment with filters and everything else.

Setting MAME to use 1280x1024 may use a lot of computing power unnecessarily, but using any other resolution will introduce blur as the image is internally converted to the native resolution. 640x512 should be fine, but I could never get that resolution to work properly.

Now, the above settings will give you very blurry image anyway, so you can get away with other resolutions, but if you start playing with filters and have the required horsepower, you'll want to have MAME set to your native resolution, so that any blur introduced in the image is there deliberately.

PS: Then again, I'm talking from MAME32 experience. I don't know what you can do with filters and a LCD on pure MAME.

Well, the first thing to do would be to discover what kind of LCD you really have. It *looks* like a widescreen to me, but that may just be the picture.
Try to find out what is its native resolution.

Javery said before it is not widescreen, and if the Cnet page is correct, it's native resolution is 1280x1024.

In the test suggested above, the picture will not show letterboxed if you have a 5:4 LCD configured to a 4:3 resolution. Mine is 1280x1024, if I configure it to 1280x960, 4:3 pictures will appear slightly stretched, not letterboxed. Whatever resolution you choose on a LCD, it will always be converted internally to the native resolution in a way to cover the entire physical screen.

I didn't realize this.  Could you post the settings your are using with your screen.  That might be the easiest thing for Javery, since you both appear to have 1280x1024 screens.

[hbm*rais]

I never knew that. Very interesting.

To complete the whole mess with aspect ratios, some of the widescreens are now advertised as 16:10 (as opposed to the "traditional" 16:9).

I know there's probably some economical reason behind it, but as lots of the media is aspect ratio dependent, it means you're paying for black borders or stretched images... which is fine when dealing with technological leaps as the change from regular TVs to Hi-def, but it really makes you think if all those other formats (5:4, 16:10, etc...) make sense.

Standard LCD's are usually 5:4.

Errr, small point:

Most 'standard' 17" & 19" LCDs are 5:4, and have a native res of 1280x1024. (probably 99%)

Most 'standard' 15" & 20" (& greater) LCDs are 4:3, and have 1024x768 & 1600x1200 respectively.

The most common LCD over the last year or two are 17" & 19", so it might seem that all non-widescreen LCDs to 5:4, but that's not quite true.

FWIW, CRTs also had 5:4 aspect 17" & 19" monitors, but they were not as common as 4:3 of the same size, and usually on the cheap end.  Again, look at the native res and if it was 1280x1024, it was a 5:4 monitor.

[Tiger-Heli]

To add on to the notes -

You can set different video options for each game, so you can run MAME at 1280x1024 on the games that don't need much horsepower, and 640x512 (blurry) on the more intense (CPU-wise) games.

AFAIK, anything video-wise you can set in MAME32 you can also set with command-line MAME.

[hbm*rais]

And a note on a note  :

640x512 *wouldn't* be blurry (if it actually worked), because every pixel would fall into an exact 2x2 square of the native resolution.

To add on to the notes -

You can set different video options for each game, so you can run MAME at 1280x1024 on the games that don't need much horsepower, and 640x512 (blurry) on the more intense (CPU-wise) games.

AFAIK, anything video-wise you can set in MAME32 you can also set with command-line MAME.

[u_rebelscum]

To complete the whole mess with aspect ratios, some of the widescreens are now advertised as 16:10 (as opposed to the "traditional" 16:9).

Check out this wikipedia page for other computer aspects (although some of those ratios listed are resolution ratios, not screen dimension ratios).  Most computer widescreens seem to me to be 16:10 now (90-95%), but the TV widescreens are still true widescreen 16:9.  And to mix it up a little more outside of BYOAC (but not BYO home theater) realm, add that movies have other aspect raitos.

[Tiger-Heli]

hbm*rais:

Thought your sig line was worth posting in its entirety:

ACHTUNG!
DAS MACHINE IST NICHT FUER DER FINGERPOKEN. ES EASY SCHNAPPEN DIE SPRINGEN, BLOWEN DAS FUSEN, UND POPPEN DER KORKEN MIT SCHPITZERN SCHPARKEN. DIE RUBBERNECKEN SICHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS HANDS IN DAS POCKETS, RELAXEN UND WATCHEN DAS BLINKENLICHTS.

[hbm*rais]

Yeah... Isn't it wonderful? 

Everyone of us should have one of those above our machines after spending so much time and care on it.

It would spare me from shouting "Take your f*cking greasy fingers off the glass" at my nephews every 15secs.

more about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinkenlights

yes... this thread has gone off-off-topic  .

hbm*rais:

Thought your sig line was worth posting in its entirety:

ACHTUNG!
DAS MACHINE IST NICHT FUER DER FINGERPOKEN. ES EASY SCHNAPPEN DIE SPRINGEN, BLOWEN DAS FUSEN, UND POPPEN DER KORKEN MIT SCHPITZERN SCHPARKEN. DIE RUBBERNECKEN SICHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS HANDS IN DAS POCKETS, RELAXEN UND WATCHEN DAS BLINKENLICHTS.

[tommyinajar]

Throwing it out there because I've been reading this thread since I'm going to be purchasing one.

There is a LCD at Staples a V7 22" Widescreen LCD Monitor for about 200-210 with the use of a "50$ of $200" coupon ( U Can buy on Ebay for like a buck).

22 Monitor

[csa3d]

This one is on the steeper side of things, but my goal was to cram as much 4:3 aspect ratio into my cab as possible.  This will do the trick, and boasts fast response time and high viewing angles if you have a midway cab.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=231796&prodlist=shopping

I'll let you know how this works out in a few weeks.
-csa

[Arcades R Fun]

Just to toss around another good buy on a 22' Viewsonic LCD at costco.com.
it's $249.00 online special. It's not a widescreen. it's 20.6 wide by 19.6 high.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11163877&search=lcd&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Mo=52&cm_re=1-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&Sp=S&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&N=0&whse=BC&ViewAll=53&Ntk=All&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=lcd&Ntt=lcd&No=35&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1

[csa3d]

Just to toss around another good buy on a 22' Viewsonic LCD at costco.com.
it's $249.00 online special. It's not a widescreen. it's 20.6 wide by 19.6 high.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11163877&search=lcd&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Mo=52&cm_re=1-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&Sp=S&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&N=0&whse=BC&ViewAll=53&Ntk=All&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=lcd&Ntt=lcd&No=35&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1

Broken link.  Try this one

On a side note, 1680x1050 this seems like a really strange resolution to me.  Why would someone want 1.6 aspect ratio over 1.33?

Edit:  Some European countries use 1.66:1 as a widescreen standard according to Wikipedia

[javeryh]

I finally got around to trying this stuff - no luck.  Changing the aspect ratio from 4:3 to 5:4 doesn't really do anything.  If I take the hardware stretch off it shrinks the picture even more.  I'm going to try and get the computer set up this weekend or die trying.