What's My Best Option? Please give me some input.

[urbecrisch]

I'm trying to figure out what's my best option for a Jamma CAB I want to Mame while using a PC and the 25" arcade monitor.

1. Should I buy both the ArcadeVGA and the JPAC to connect to my PC?
                                                     
2. Buy only the ArcadeVGA and use another encoder to hookup to my control panel thus giving me more options? (but also wasting the Jamma harness)

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.   

[BobA]

Arcade VGA and JPAC seems like the most seamless integration of products for what you want to do.  Also  you only have to order the bits from one supplier and pay shipping once.

[Chris G]

I'd say the main determinant should be what you plan to use the cabinet for.  When I went through this, I knew I wanted to play trackball games, plus the joysticks on the cab I bought were awful... so it was an easy choice.  If the existing controls work for you, then use 'em.  If not, then go buy all the other goodies.  Personally, I think "wasting" the JAMMA harness should be your last concern.  You can always give it to someone else who'll put it to good use.  Good luck!

 
Chris

[korendog]

I'll have to go with Bob on this one.  Order up an ArcadeVGA and J-PAC.  You'll be good to go.  I have that exact setup with a Jamma cabinet.  It is the easiest way to get everything hooked up and rolling.  You won't have to waste the Jamma harness as the J-PAC will hook right into it and save you the trouble of wiring anything to your monitor.  If you want more inputs than what the J-PAC provides you can always get an I-PAC or Opti-PAC.  Just depends on what controls you want.  Cheers!

[urbecrisch]

Well, I already have my own CP with all the goodies and  I want to play spinner/trackball games so I think I want to do what you said Chris G.  but I'm not familiar with arcade monitors and I don't know how to disconnect/connect it to the ArcadeVGA card.

Is it difficult to connect the arcade monitor to the ArcadeVGA card?  How will I disconnect the monitor from the Jamma harness and what do I plug the monitor into?  Is it olny a few wires?

Once I figure out what to do with the monitor the rest will be easy for me to figure out.  Do you think it's a good idea to use the Jamma wiring to wire my own CP?  That way I can use the ArcadeVGA and JPAC and I don't have to mess around with the monitor. 

What are some suggestions?

[BobA]

Well, I already have my own CP with all the goodies and  I want to play spinner/trackball games so I think I want to do what you said Chris G.

Too bad you didn't mention you already had your control panel setup with all the goodies.   I assumed the control panel you asked about was the one that came with the arcade monitor.   More info = Better answers.

To connect the monitor to a JPAC you follow the instructions on the Ultimarc ArcadeVGA Inst Page .

[Chris G]

Is it difficult to connect the arcade monitor to the ArcadeVGA card?  How will I disconnect the monitor from the Jamma harness and what do I plug the monitor into?  Is it olny a few wires?

Not trying to influence you one way or the other, but this route is not difficult at all.  If you decide to buy an AVGA, they even sell a pre-stripped VGA cable for around $6 to make it super-easy.  One end plugs right into the AVGA and the other end you just splice onto the existing video cable on the cabinet (5-6 wires).  Happy to help if you have problems.

[urbecrisch]

If you decide to buy an AVGA, they even sell a pre-stripped VGA cable for around $6 to make it super-easy.  One end plugs right into the AVGA and the other end you just splice onto the existing video cable on the cabinet (5-6 wires).  Happy to help if you have problems.

1.  Where do you get this pre-stripped wire?  What does it look like?  I still have some questions about the monitor wires.  I'm not sure which wires (5-6) you're talking about.

2.  Also, if I do it this way Chris G. I will be buying only the AVGA and then I will be using another encoder to hook up my wires to? 

3.  Will I be able to still have my coin mecs working if I don't use the JPAC?  The coin mecs will still be operational with another encoder as long as their powered up, right?

Thanks for all your help so far.

[Chris G]

Ultimarc sells it (VGA Breakout Cable on their order page).  I don't think the resellers carry them, but you could check.  It looks like a standard VGA cable, except the monitor-end connector is cut off and the individual wires are labeled for you.  The wires are Red, Green, Blue, Horiz sync, Vert sync, and a wrapped bundle of wires which = ground.

Your monitor will have a set of wires connecting it to the game board.  If you were using a JPAC, I believe you would simply plug the game board-side connector directly into it.  If you're using an AVGA, the way I did it was to leave the monitor-end plug-in alone and cut off the game board-side connector.  You then connect the various wires from that into your VGA breakout cable.  Hopefully you have or can find the manual for your monitor to determine which wire is which.  If not, I'm sure someone around here can help you figure it out if you have trouble.

Hopefully I'm answering your questions and not confusing you more.  Andy at Ultimarc is very helpful, so you can always email him as well.

I haven't gotten around to wiring up my coin mechs, so hopefully someone else can help you with that.

 
Chris

[urbecrisch]

Chris, thanks a lot for taking the time to help me out.  It's nice to know there are people like you out there to help out us NOOBS!  I really appreciate your patience.  OK, now you kinda confused me a little bit but I checked out inside my CAB and I think I maybe understand what your talking about regarding the monitor wires (PIC1) going into the game board (PIC2). 

However, the wire colors from my monitor are RED, GREEN, BROWN, BLACK, and then 2 WHITE wires.  Am I looking at the right wires?

So you mean I would leave the wires connected to the monitor but I would take the wires off the Jamma harness and connect them to the VGA Breakout Cable which plugs into my AVGA? 

Not sure if I'm right but hopefully the PICS will help you out once you see what I see.  BTW my monitor is a 25" WG 25K7193. 

Sorry for the quality of the PICS.  I just took them now (10 PM CST) and my CAB is in the garage where the lighting is pretty crappy.  If they are too blurry or dark, I can take better ones tomorrow.  Talk to you later.

[Chris G]

Chris, thanks a lot for taking the time to help me out.  It's nice to know there are people like you out there to help out us NOOBS!  I really appreciate your patience.

No problemo.

However, the wire colors from my monitor are RED, GREEN, BROWN, BLACK, and then 2 WHITE wires.  Am I looking at the right wires?

I believe so.  Mine is a WG25K7191 and the wiring went:

Monitor wire => VGA B-O wire
Red => Red
Green => Green
Blue => Blue
Black => Ground bundle
2 Browns (Composite synch) => both the H and V sync

So my guess is that yours would be the same, with the 2 whites as your sync cables.  Not sure about the brown - are you sure it's not just a dirty blue? 

So you mean I would leave the wires connected to the monitor but I would take the wires off the Jamma harness and connect them to the VGA Breakout Cable which plugs into my AVGA? 

If your wiring is like mine, the monitor wire set we're talking about will terminate in a white clip, which then joins into the primary JAMMA harness.  If so, cut off the wires a little before the white clip, in case you change your mind and want to reconnect it all later.  If not (white clip), then just cut them anywhere that leaves you some wire to work with on both sides.  Next, strip the monitor wires and connect them to the appropriate VGA B-O wires using your favorite wire connectors.  (Or if you're more wire savvy than me, you may even be able to find a matching wire clip to connect the VGA B-O cable into and which would allow you to plug directly into the monitor cable clip and avoid cutting your wires)

It is my understanding that the WG monitors do not need a video amp with the AVGA - mine didn't - so you shouldn't need to worry about that.

If you decide to do this, PLEASE confirm my wiring assumptions first.  I'm definitely not an expert at this!  I did a quick search for you, but couldn't find a wiring diagram.  I'd bet that Ken Layton or one of the other video gurus would be able to verify if you post this specific question in the Video forum.

Chris

[urbecrisch]

If your wiring is like mine, the monitor wire set we're talking about will terminate in a white clip, which then joins into the primary JAMMA harness.  If so, cut off the wires a little before the white clip, in case you change your mind and want to reconnect it all later.  If not (white clip), then just cut them anywhere that leaves you some wire to work with on both sides.  Next, strip the monitor wires and connect them to the appropriate VGA B-O wires using your favorite wire connectors.  (Or if you're more wire savvy than me, you may even be able to find a matching wire clip to connect the VGA B-O cable into and which would allow you to plug directly into the monitor cable clip and avoid cutting your wires)

It is my understanding that the WG monitors do not need a video amp with the AVGA - mine didn't - so you shouldn't need to worry about that.

If you decide to do this, PLEASE confirm my wiring assumptions first.  I'm definitely not an expert at this!  I did a quick search for you, but couldn't find a wiring diagram.  I'd bet that Ken Layton or one of the other video gurus would be able to verify if you post this specific question in the Video forum.

Thanks again Chris.  Looks like I did find the wires you are talking about    One problem solved.  However, I'm still a little confused with the wire cutting you explained.  I am really a visual person so sometimes it's hard for me to follow instructions without a PIC.  If I understand you correctly,

I am going to cut both B-O set of wires from my monitor?  Which means coming from my monitor board (PIC1) to my Jamma harness (PIC2).  Both sides will have to be cut?

If so, I'm not clear what I'm connecting both sides of the B-O wires to.  I thought I would have to leave the wires on the monitor board alone (PIC1) cause it's plugged into the monitor and then I would cut the B-O wires going into the Jamma harness only (PIC2) so that end can be plugged into the AVGA.  I hope I'm not confusing you now 

If for some reason this way doesn't work out for me.  Can I use the JPAC and just use the existing Jamma harness and hook up the new CP with the existing Jamma wires?  It's not my preferred way of doing things but the old CP that came with the arcade did work and I could just route the wires from the old CP to my new one.  It may take a lot of time, but at least it should work easily with the JPAC and AVGA.  But before I do that I would still like to use a separate encoder so I have more control over my bottons etc. and I can use a solderless encoder.  What encoder do you use?  I would like to get the LED KeyWiz for some cool lighting effects.  Oh well, first things first... figuring out this damn monitor problem.  Thanks again.

[Chris G]

Just visualize that you are trying to have one continuous set of wires going from your monitor to your video card.  Let's see if I can explain this better.

If you were to buy the VGA B-O cable, one end plugs directly into your AVGA.  Easy.  The other end is a set of pre-stripped, labeled wires, as I've described previously.  Let's call that "A".

Then you have a wire set, which you've identified, coming from your monitor.  You would leave the end plugged into the monitor alone, follow the wires down a ways (let's say 6 inches), cut them off, and strip them.  Let's call that "B".

Now you just need to connect A to B using some wire connectors.  Done deal.

Does that make sense?  You are only making one cut.  The rest of the JAMMA harness does not come into play at all.  If my stuff wasn't all bundled and taped, I would take some pictures for you.

You would probably do just fine going with the JPAC too.  And maybe that's the better route for you.  I don't have one, but if I understand correctly, you just plug the whole JAMMA harness right into it and away you go - the monitor and controls are all connected.  The JPAC also has some additional inputs if you want more than 3 buttons per player.

Chris

[urbecrisch]

It's crystal clear now thanks!  I'm not sure what I want to do.  I'm planning on a huge CP with 2 player joys, 6 buttons ea., usb trackball, ps2/spinner, and possibly some admin buttons.  Using the JPAC I would have to figure out how to connect everything together.  Also the JPAC is a little pricey and if I didn't need it I could use the dough for the LED Keywiz or something.

So when you used the AVGA to hook up your monitor was there any problem with the picture of the monitor? 
Everything worked out well with your PC running Mame and the monitor picture?
What encoder do you use and how old is your monitor?
CPU specs?
How do I get to the monitor settings if I don't use the Jamma harness?  There's a pushbutton on the inside of the CAB that is the monitor setup, settings, etc.  Where does that plug into when using an encoder?

My concern is if I do something stupid and then I will lose the monitor picture or the monitor all of a sudden becomes distorted or something. 

Oh, one more thing.
If I disconnect the Jamma harness, will I lose all power to my coin mecs?  I really want to use them cause it looks so cool.  Maybe I could use the 5v power from my PC power supply for the coin mec lights.  My CAB is really a 4 player conversion so I don't need all four coin slots.

[Chris G]

Gonna do a machine gun response this time:

No problems with the picture that weren't there before.

Yes, everything worked out well.

I have a mini-pac, which was a mistake because my trackball and spinner are USB.

The sticker on my monitor shows June 1990.

My CPU is an AMD Athlon 64 3500+ 2.2GHz.

Sounds like your monitor is more advanced than mine.  Mine simply has manual dial controls for the horiz/vert size&position, etc.  which I mounted in a place I could get at without having to open the cab.

You shouldn't have to do anything that can't be undone.  That's why I suggested cutting the wire (if you go that route) in a way that you could reconnect it if you change your mind.  Can't provide you any insurance against "doing something stupid", though.   

The power to the coin mechs did run through the JAMMA harness on mine.  I simply rewired them to the monitor power supply.  I'm sure it would work to use your PC power supply as well.

 
Chris

[urbecrisch]

Mine simply has manual dial controls for the horiz/vert size&position, etc.  which I mounted in a place I could get at without having to open the cab.

Why do you have to get to these dials?  Mine has the same manual dial controls attached to the monitor.  Do you have to mess around with the dials often?

I think I'm going to go the route you suggested.  Buy the AVGA and the VGA B-O cable to connect to my monitor using wire connectors.  Then I can run my CP off of a Keywiz or something.  Now I just have to find a PC to put into the CAB    I will probably seek help in the monitor forum regarding the colored wiring I have coming from my monitor but it seems like everything you told me should work.  Thanks again for all your help.  Hey, if you get a chance, send a PM PIC of your CAB.  I'm interested to see how it looks.

[Chris G]

Unfortunately, yes, I'm constantly having to use those controls, mainly the vertical size.  I like to use as much of the screen as possible - so on vertical games, I shrink the screen down to see the top and bottom of the game, and then I expand it again when switching to a horizontal game.

It would not surprise me at all if I'm a total retard in this regard and there's a much easier way to do this!  When I first set everything up, I used this Auto Resolution setup program I found and I don't think it created all the resolution settings very well.  I just haven't had time to research how to do it properly or to fiddle around with it myself to figure it out.

Also, just in case you hadn't noticed, the AVGA comes in 2 versions.  Keep that in mind as you figure out your PC since not all MBs have both AGP and PCIe slots.

[urbecrisch]

Unfortunately, yes, I'm constantly having to use those controls, mainly the vertical size.  I like to use as much of the screen as possible - so on vertical games, I shrink the screen down to see the top and bottom of the game, and then I expand it again when switching to a horizontal game.

So you have to do this each time you switch from a vertical to horizontal game?  If so there has to be a better way.  If you leave the settings on horizontal, are the vertical games that bad looking?  Can't be any worse than using a PC monitor. 

BTW, I did notice the AVGA comes in both AGP & PCI.  Hey, where's that PIC of your CAB?

[Chris G]

So you have to do this each time you switch from a vertical to horizontal game?

 

Hey, where's that PIC of your CAB?

This would be akin to someone taking a picture of their wife first thing in the morning.  My cab would hate me forever.  I've had the CP under construction for - I'm not going to say how long - but I finally have all the tools to finish it, so that will change soon.  I'm toying around with the idea of posting it in the Project Announcements section, but haven't decided for sure.  For now, just envision an oddly-shaped black box with a hole in the front. 

Seriously, though, if there's something you need a picture of that would help you, let me know and I'll see what I can do.

 
Chris

[urbecrisch]

Just curious what the CAB looks like.  You say you have a CAB with WG monitor.  How old is the CAB (what game is it from)?  What kind of controls do you have on your CP? 

I have had a CP done for a few months now but it's HUGE! (box is 32x18) I wanted a huge CP for playing Golden Tee so I could really give it a whirl when I (and buddies) play.  I ended up getting a Simpson's CAB converted to a MK3 Ultimate at a local auction last week.  The CAB is big and sturdy so I will be able to use the CP I made.  The monitor looks great and I'm stoked to get it all setup.  I originally made a Frankenpanel but I may get rid of the Topfire joystick cause there aren't a lot of games I will be using the topfire for, I guess I wanted it mainly for Tron but after I get Mame setup there will be so many other games to play I don't think the topfire will be worth hooking up.

I already Mame'd a Defender CAB recently but I stopped cause my CP I built would never fit on the CAB so I decided to finish it up with a smaller CP and sell it to a buddy of mine just for the cost I put into it.  Actually the CAB will look cool once it's completely done.  It's all primed and ready for painting.  It also needs a bezel, marquee, and CP overlay.  Oh well, enough of my rant.  Cheers!  BTW, here's a PIC of the unfinished CAB.

[Chris G]

You MAME'd a Defender?!?!?  I know some folks around here that would consider them fightin' words.    It looks like you've done a nice job, though.

Mine was a Pit Fighter.  You can check out KLOV to see how it looks.  I would guess it's probably around the same age as the monitor.

When I bought it (around 5 months ago), I was extremely anxious to have a cabinet, and didn't have the tools or space to build one myself.  I went with this particular deal for a number of reasons:

- liked the shape and size of the cabinet ok
- the cabinet itself was in pretty good shape
- monitor looked good enough
- thought I could replace the middle player controls with a trackball (little did I know I would end up rebuilding the whole CP...)
- Pit Fighter is an awful game, so I didn't feel bad Mame-ing it
- The seller was very close by

My current CP design is 17" x 30".  It'll have 2 U360's, a TT2, an ICE-T, 6 buttons each player, and a few other admin buttons.  Basically I'm just fiddling with the button spacing and a couple little things before I make the final version.

 
Chris

[urbecrisch]

LOL!  Yup!  That used to be a Defender CAB, however, I bought it gutted out so it's not like I did any damage to it.  Also at the time I thought I was going to be able to fit a bigger CP on the CAB but that meant cutting it and I didn't want to do that, so in reality it still can one day become a dedicated Defender if someone chooses to do so.

Your CAB looks interesting.  I like that it's original and doesn't look like every other CAB that's out there.  You mentioned your CP is 17x30, is that the original CP dimensions?  How does the CAB support the monitor?  It's got such a strange shape how the CP protrudes  from the CAB it seems like there is no support. I'm sure it will be fine but I'm curious how you will connect the CP.

You mentioned you are using U360's.  I just started a thread about the difference between the U360 and the H360.  Will you use an encoder or use the connections from the U360's?  Cheers!

[Chris G]

The original CP dimensions are 14x33, so the new one will be a little narrower and deeper.  Basically it's just a little box (the CP) connected to a big box (the cab) by two large carriage bolts.  I'm not terribly concerned about the support, but in the back of my mind I wonder about the weight tipping the cab forward, especially if it's leaned on.  It's a big, heavy sucker, though, so it'll probably be fine.

The monitor is bolted onto a metal chassis, which is bolted through the walls of the cab.  There are also some supports built into the inside of the cab for it.  Very sturdy.  I can take some pics if you're curious.  For the buttons, I'm just using the mini-pac so I have the shift functionality and a dedicated interface.

[urbecrisch]

I think your CAB should be sturdy enough to hold your CP.  I know my will be fine cause the CAB is super heavy. 
Did you repaint your CAB when you bought it?  What kind of condition was it in?

I noticed some scratches on my CAB but over all it's in good condition.  I will have to bond the edges since there are noticeable "dings".  I was also thinking of replacing the t-molding cause it's black and since the CAB is black it's hard to see the t-mold.  I want a different color to stand out.

[Chris G]

Overall, it was in pretty good shape, but I did repaint it and replaced the banged-up t-molding.  I've learned a lot since then and can see all the mistakes I made.  Rather than redo it, though, I'm just going to build my next one from scratch since I'm buying tools and getting interested in woodworking now.  Workspace is still an issue, unfortunately. 

What color/theme are you going to do?

[urbecrisch]

I'm not sure.  Originally I was going to copy what Knievel did with the Neon mame but after seeing so many different CAB's I'm not sure anymore.  His CAB is so cool that I'm afraid mine will be nothing in comparison and since I'm a perfectionist, I don't think I'll ever be satisfied.  I'm still looking around and comparing colors.  Right now the last thing I'm thinking about is colors, I'm still figuring out this whole monitor thing  although I think I know what to order thanks to your help so now I'm just waiting on another PC. 

You said you repainted your CAB.  Did you sand the old paint off or just paint over the old stuff?
How did the paint job turn out?

Cheers 

[Chris G]

I just primed and painted over.  It turned out ok, but I'm pretty picky too, so I hope to be able to do better next time.

The enjoyment of just having my own arcade in the house really outweighs any nitpicks I have about any of it, though.  And so far no guests have complained either!


Chris

[urbecrisch]

Alright Chris, enough is enough!     Now you gotta post a pic of your arcade CAB or PM me a pic.  So much talking about it I want to see what the "artist" created. 

   Cheers! 

[Chris G]

Ok, Ok.  But an artist I am not (nor a photographer)... and I warned you of her work-in-progress status!

The first shot is a side-view I found from when I first bought it.  You can't see it very well, but the bezel was this awful purple cardboard thing with instructions printed on it.  Just by removing that and the peeling side art made it look about 1000 times better.

The second shot is after I gutted it prior to painting.  You can see the metal monitor chassis I mentioned before.

The 3rd shot is current.  I spray painted the inside of the monitor glass black - MUCH nicer!  You can see the bolts on the side which support the monitor frame.  And you can also see how the CP connects to the cabinet.  That snazzy blue painter's tape is obviously temporary - just there to protect the t-molding while I work on the CP.  You can get a little idea of the before/after paint job by looking at the CP box, which is the original.

The 4th is a shot of the monitor since you were asking how that looked.  Should give you some idea of the color and text clarity of a 17 year-old tube.  And no laughing at my high scores - I haven't had many opportunities to get back in form yet. 

Next time you see her, she'll have a new marquee and a new control box/panel/overlay.  I'm not planning do side art.  The theme will be Dragon's Lair-esque.


Chris

[urbecrisch]

Nothing to hide there mate, you got yourself a great looking CAB.  That monitor looks awesome!  Now I'm glad  I picked up a CAB with arcade monitor cause everything I've read so far says a true arcade monitor is better than a TV or CRT.  But I have to ask:

How did you feel about taking the monitor out of the CAB?
I want to cause I have to lighten the CAB up when I move it downstairs, but something inside of me is saying your going to get 20,000 volts of electricity through your veins if you try it, LOL!    Really, was it easy to do?

Did you spray paint the sides of the CAB or use a roller? 

I suppose the best thing for me to do is to take the monitor out so I can do some work to the CAB.  OK, I need some positive reinforcement.  Was this the first time you handled an Arcade monitor before (taking it out of CAB)?

Good job so far on the CAB.  Cheers!   

[Chris G]

Thanks - I can't wait to get it finished!!!

Ya, this was the first time I had handled an arcade monitor.  After having read some posts on here, Saint's book, a few websites - I wasn't too worried about it.  As long as you're careful and follow common sense safety, you will be fine.  The biggest problem is the weight/size of them.  I was able to move mine around by myself when necessary, but if you can get help it makes it WAY easier.

I rolled and brushed.  A spray job always looks better from what I've seen, so I really want to get a sprayer.  As many projects as I've done around the house, I'm sure I would have gotten my money's worth by now... yet another tool on my list.   

 
Chris