A new home for my cabinet

[drunkatuw]

No, I'm not getting rid of my cabinet, I finished my basement so the cabinet is no longer in our living room.  I'm about 95% done finishing the basement.  I still need to do some paint touch up, hang the screen for the projector and hang the surround speakers.

I did a majority of the work myself.  I learned as I went a long, I've never finished a basement before.  We did contract out the plumbing because I didn't want to use a jackhammer to break the concrete.  Also contracted out the taping/mudding of the drywall because it would take me forever and I'm sure my wife would constantly point out that she can see all the seems.  The installation of the carpet was included in the price, so I didn't do that either.

I know everyone loves pictures, so here are a few.

Before shot of the gameroom:


After (still need some touch up paint around the window and to hang the closet bi-fold doors and of course put back together the cabinet...I don't remember there being that many wires when I first built it)




The real reason I wanted to finish the basement...my home theater!
Before:


After:


Still need to hang the screen:


In the process we also added a bathroom in the basement:


You might be wondering where all the junk from the before pictures went...well, it's still there, just hidden in the storage room with all my tools

[ChadTower]

Duuuuude... this is almost exactly what I'm planning to do this summer/fall... and I'll be learning a lot of it as I go too.  It looks like you have roughly the same type of space as well.

Could you give some details on the bathroom?  Is there a tub/shower?  Did you have to put in an ejector pump?

[javeryh]

Me = jealous.  Even if I wanted to (and I do!) my house is way too small for something like that - plus the ceilings are barely 6 ft. in the unfinished basement so it's just about impossible.  You are living the dream!

[ChadTower]

That's a little bit of an issue for me... the ceilings are in the mid 7' range.  I can get by but I'll have to totally minimize how much clearance I lose from the floor and ceiling finish.

[drunkatuw]

Duuuuude... this is almost exactly what I'm planning to do this summer/fall... and I'll be learning a lot of it as I go too.  It looks like you have roughly the same type of space as well.

Could you give some details on the bathroom?  Is there a tub/shower?  Did you have to put in an ejector pump?

Forunately, the builder did a rough-in for the basement bathroom, unfortunately, he put it too close to the wall violating code, so the plumber had to move it a few inches.  Since it was roughed in, no ejector pump was needed, it connects straight to the main sewer line running under the house.

My ceilings are 7'9", so I decided to go with nothing on the floor (carpet and padding are on top of the bare concrete) and a drywall ceiling instead of a drop ceiling.  The only place that the ceiling height is a concern for me is above the riser (2nd row of seating) because the recliners are elevated 12" above the ground, so it's only 6'9" there, but none of my friends/family members are over 6'9" so I'm not too worried (although it's only 6' from the riser to the projector, I'm sure someone will eventually bump their head on the projector.

Oops, I didn't answer all your questions...across from the toilet is a tub/shower.  Here it is without the shower curtain:


Next project will be to get the old EM Super Spin pinball machine working again.

[ChadTower]

Ah, see, I don't have sewer, I have a cesspool.  And the plumbing exit for the house is roughly 3-4' off the ground.  I definitely need an ejector pump, meaning the vent stack is going to have to be accessed really well... so the plumbing will be done by a pro in my case.

What state do you live in? 

Will cold be an issue with floors that aren't insulated?

What purpose does the interior wall serve on the edge of your theater?  I'm actually thinking of just putting retractable curtain in that spot so that it can be opened up for a larger space when the theater is in casual or nonuse.

[drunkatuw]

I'm in Minnesota, and I put in enough heat vents that it isn't that cold in the winter and I can close all the vents in the summer and it feels very comfortable down there and stays relatively cool.

The interior wall doesn't really serve much of a purpose.  Actually, in the beginning we were planning on having french doors open between the game room and the theater...I think I have a picture of that...(searches directory of construction pictures)
yup, here it is..


But after a long discussion with my wife I finally got my way and we closed off the doorway.  My reasons were:  1.  French doors are expensive, 2.  Much better for the sound in the theater to have the space closed off, 3.  If we sell our house, we can list the game room as another bedroom since it has an escape window and large closet.

[drunkatuw]

I guess it might be easier to see what's going on if I include the floorplan.

[shardian]

Congrats on the new basement!
Ya rich bastard.

[ChadTower]

Cool.  I'm going to use the bulkhead door as the secondary exit for code purposes.  I think I'm also going to do a custom drop tile solution between floor joists in order to save ceiling height.  It will be a buttload of putting rails between joists and then cutting tiles from thin plywood, but it will end up with no loss of ceiling height from the topside.  I still need to figure out what my lighting options are going to be with those restrictions.

[drunkatuw]

Congrats on the new basement!
Ya rich bastard.

Thanks...but far from rich.  We were going to finish our basement anyways, but we were going to do it over a long period of time so that we could afford it.  Unfortunately, my father-in-law passed away last year leaving us enough money to finish the basement as fast as I could work (and it's been a lot of late nights finishing this).  And the only thing we splurged on was the recliners (which I got a great price on with a power buy on AVS forums).  So the theater is dedicated to him and the super spin pinball was a gift from him, so I'm going to do whatever it takes to make it work again.

Cool.  I'm going to use the bulkhead door as the secondary exit for code purposes.  I think I'm also going to do a custom drop tile solution between floor joists in order to save ceiling height.  It will be a buttload of putting rails between joists and then cutting tiles from thin plywood, but it will end up with no loss of ceiling height from the topside.  I still need to figure out what my lighting options are going to be with those restrictions.

That sounds like an awful lot of work to save 1/2".  If you screw 1/2" drywall onto the ceiling joists you'll save yourself a lot of work.  Whether you do drywall or your plywood idea, can lights would work.  Can lights go in between the ceiling joists and you can move them up as high as you need. 

Since a picture is worth 1000 words, here is what a can light looks like installed.  If you used the plywood in between the joists, you'd just move them up 1/2".

[ChadTower]

Hrm, that pic really shows it perfectly.  Any heat issues in being enclosed in that tight a space?

My biggest fear on using drywall for the ceiling is that I'll be doing 95% of the work alone.  Not exactly a great way to hang a drywall ceiling.  I have a lot of infrastructure to work around, too, like the heating ducts that go under the joists in some spots (they run perpendicular for some reason).  My joists aren't made from manufactured wood like yours, they're solid wood beams, I think 2x8 or maybe 2x10, hard to remember right now.  As it is built now, nothing goes through joists the way it is in your space.  My house is 50 years old.

[drunkatuw]

There are different kinds of recessed lighting.  Some require a certain distant between the light and any insulation.  The ones I had can come in contact with the insulation, I got them relatively cheap from home depot.  I also put in florescent flood lights, they give off very little heat. 

I tried to hang the drywall ceiling by myself and failed miserably  .  I would get the piece in place  and then reach for a screw and it would move and I was constantly fighting it.  After about 30 min I was dripping in sweat and had not accomplished anything except cause every muscle in my arms to ache.  So I called up my dad who thankfully was eager to help me.  We put up the whole ceiling in just a couple hours.

So I would not recommend hanging a drywall ceiling by yourself.  But you can rent a drywall lift at home depot for something like $50/half a day.  If I was going to do it again, I'd definitely rent one. 

In the theater area, my builder was nice enough to tuck everything between the joists, but for the rest of the basement I had to create soffits around all the duct work.



The soffits were a pain in the butt, but since I had to use smaller pieces of drywall, I was able to drywall those by myself.

[shardian]

Hrm, that pic really shows it perfectly.  Any heat issues in being enclosed in that tight a space?

No heat issues.

My biggest fear on using drywall for the ceiling is that I'll be doing 95% of the work alone.  Not exactly a great way to hang a drywall ceiling. 

http://www.tjak.com/index.html

[shardian]

And an ebay link to the drywall kit:
T-Jak drywall support

[ChadTower]

Wow that lift is cool.  I'd imagine with one person it's hard just to lift the drywall up into that position without it cracking on you.

I may reroute my heating ducts so that they go in a more friendly manner.  I can't imagine that would make a real difference in functionality.  As for the big one, like you enclosed, I am half tempted to just paint that the same color as the ceiling and be done with it.  I don't think I need a 100% full finished look.

[drunkatuw]

And an ebay link to the drywall kit:
T-Jak drywall support

I tried to make a T out of scrap 2x4s that is very similar to the link you provided, but I still always felt like I was short one hand.  I don't know it I'd spend $70 for something I'm not positive will work.  Although with the brace in that link, I think you might be able to get your wife to help you since she wouldn't need to lift the whole sheet of drywall by herself (FYI, a 4'x8'x1/2" piece of drywall weighs 55lbs).

[shardian]

As for the big one, like you enclosed, I am half tempted to just paint that the same color as the ceiling and be done with it.  I don't think I need a 100% full finished look.

It isn't too hard to create a soffit. I would never recommend painted duct in a residential setting. The only time that looks okay is in a warehouse setting.

[ChadTower]

Well, maybe if I paint it, and you're right (you probably are), then I can enclose it.  Something in my instinct keeps telling me not to enclose stuff, as if it's going to develop a problem as soon as I do.

[drunkatuw]

Well, maybe if I paint it, and you're right (you probably are), then I can enclose it.  Something in my instinct keeps telling me not to enclose stuff, as if it's going to develop a problem as soon as I do.

I have that problem too.  Last winter I had a pipe burst in my basement (because I forgot to remove my garden hoses before they froze) and it was pretty easy to fix.  But now that the basement is finished I think about what a paint it would be to have to fix a broken pipe now.  I'd have to remove all the drywall, then fix the leak.  Then hang new drywall, mud/tape the seams, sand and then paint.  Cross my fingers, hopefully I won't have any leaks.

[shardian]

Well, maybe if I paint it, and you're right (you probably are), then I can enclose it.  Something in my instinct keeps telling me not to enclose stuff, as if it's going to develop a problem as soon as I do.

I have that problem too.  Last winter I had a pipe burst in my basement (because I forgot to remove my garden hoses before they froze) and it was pretty easy to fix.  But now that the basement is finished I think about what a paint it would be to have to fix a broken pipe now.  I'd have to remove all the drywall, then fix the leak.  Then hang new drywall, mud/tape the seams, sand and then paint.  Cross my fingers, hopefully I won't have any leaks.

It's just something you have to live with as a homeowner. ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- happens you know  . Just remember that any time you have access to water piping, put some insulation on it if it isn't already. Also insulate duct if you can. Any time you can increase your efficiency even a little bit, it will be worth it in the long run.

[ChadTower]

If the area the ducting runs through is finished, wouldn't the lost heat just be going into a useful place anyway?  You're not losing it, you're just not directing it exactly where you meant it to go.

I have had 2-3 leaks in the past year in the copper pipes that would be enclosed by a drywall ceiling.  The cold water cutoff valves are crap now, all encrusted, and definitely need replacing.  They don't leak but they don't move either.

[BobA]

I think the issues with basement ceiling access are dependent on the age of the home being worked on.   If your valves are already corroded then you will probably need access at some point in the future.  Newer homes have less copper piping and and joints due to the use of plastics which have been used in europe for decades.   HVAC duct work seldom needs access and if you put in enough circuits the electrical should be fine.  In older home maybe a dropped ceiling is more prudent but hard to do due to less height in the basement.

Goodl looking basement reno drukatuw.   Makes me want to get going on my own.

[SavannahLion]

ChadTower, I don't have any pics to show at the moment, but my mothers home has no drywall ceilings. Instead the ceiling has exposed wood beams. All the wiring is hidden under wooden strips made by hand, similar to Cord Covers. We don't have heating ducts, but the one pipe that can be found, my dad carefully routed in in the farthest corner.

My point is, given that your house is 50 years old. What about the feasibility of just finishing the bare wood? Perhaps staining it dark, hide the electrical wiring behind U strips. Not sure what you can do about the ducting though.

I grew up in a mountain town so all three arcades (not at the same time) were stashed in dungeon-like environments. One was the basement bar of a ski resort. All dark wood (almost black) with a huge array of broken ski tips lining the wall. The bar had a deal if you brought in a broken tip, you got a free beer.  The other was underneath a rental shop, again, dark wood paneling and exposed wood beams. The third was at a cam ground with, guess what, exposed dark wood beams and paneling.

Some of my best arcade memories were in some of the deepest darkest dungeons. My favorite of all time was the old Circus Circus arcade where it was actually below floor level. There were small barricade windows across the top of one wall where you can look up under women's skirts at the circus show. 

[ChadTower]

My point is, given that your house is 50 years old. What about the feasibility of just finishing the bare wood?

It would be possible but not the look I'm going for... this is going to be general purpose living space, too, so I don't want it feeling darker than it has to.  I'm thinking a flat offwhite paint will work just fine in the same manner.  While I'm in there I may actually double up the joists to add structural strength upstairs too, which would make it a lot harder to stain the joists, given the old ones have been there since 1954 and are dark.

[drunkatuw]

Well, maybe if I paint it, and you're right (you probably are), then I can enclose it.  Something in my instinct keeps telling me not to enclose stuff, as if it's going to develop a problem as soon as I do.

I have that problem too.  Last winter I had a pipe burst in my basement (because I forgot to remove my garden hoses before they froze) and it was pretty easy to fix.  But now that the basement is finished I think about what a paint it would be to have to fix a broken pipe now.  I'd have to remove all the drywall, then fix the leak.  Then hang new drywall, mud/tape the seams, sand and then paint.  Cross my fingers, hopefully I won't have any leaks.

I should have knocked on wood, I almost jinxed myself.  We were out of town for the weekend and when we came back our dishwasher didn't work.  I checked the breaker and everything looked good.  I opened the control box on the dishwasher and I wasn't getting any power to the dishwasher.  So I had power at the breaker box, but not at the dishwasher.  So I assumed something happened to the wiring.  I followed the wire from the breaker box into the attic and across the garage attic until it entered the house.  Everything looked good, a mouse or other animal did not chew through the wire.

Now I was afraid that something happened to the wire inside the wall.  I called my dad to see if he had any other insight.  He said that he'd be over in an hour.  He came over and saw that there was no power to the dishwasher and asked what I did to troubleshoot.  Then he asked what all the switches on the wall do.  I told him they were for undercabinet lights and garbage disposal.  And then he pointed to a third switch and asked what that one did.  I told him I thought it did the other undercabinet lights.  I flipped the switch and nothing happened...weird.

If you haven't guessed yet, that third switch actually turned on power to the dishwasher.  Apparently code requires that if the dishwasher is hard-wired (i.e. doesn't have a plug you can pull) you need a switch to shut off power in case the motor catches on fire or something else.  We have no known about the switch or used it in 2004 when we bought the house.  My mom felt bad that she's using our house as a hotel for her family this weekend so she hire a cleaning service since we'd be out of town and couldn't clean ourselves and the cleaning lady must have been looking for additional light and flipped the switch.

My dad knew about the electrical code because he owns a company that installs dishwashers at commercial locations.  He kept telling me that we'd have it fixed in 5 min as he watched part of finding nemo on the projector, I told him we should get to work because it could take all night if we have to rip into the walls.  Turns out it took about 3 min to fix and most of that was screwing back on the kick panel to the dishwasher.

Atleast my dad saved me from calling an electrician and then having him laugh at me when he flips the switch and it works and then hands me a bill for $80.

[shardian]

I didn't know that about dishwashers. Presonally, I've never seen a switch controlled dishwasher in anyone's house, including mine.

Now, there is a dedicated breaker for the dishwasher in the breaker box. Since when do they require a switch at the dishwasher, or is it not necessary if it is on a dedicated breaker?

[ChadTower]

My dishwasher was rewired in 2003 and doesn't have a switch.  That must be a local code.  Or Sears is stupid, since it was their guy that did the install.

[drunkatuw]

Either it's local code or it's just something my dad does for all his customers and my builder was nice enough to put it in.

It makes sense to me though, because if something went wrong with the dishwasher, I'd much rather have a switch near by rather than running to the garage and looking for the dishwasher circuit  breaker.

I did some google searching and found this:

Dishwashers can be hard wired instead of cord and plug connected as long as another suitable disconnecting means is available. The unit switch can be used as long as it disconnects all power to the dishwasher, no clock or delayed start when in the off position. The circuit breaker can be used in some circumstances. Read 422.30-35.

There is no "unit switch" on my dishwasher, it's always on standby, so I'm guessing that the circuit breaker cannot be used in my situation, but in other cases it would work.

and I also found this:

According to 422.31(B) "the branch-circuit switch or circuit breaker shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means where the switch or circuit breaker is within sight from the appliance or is capable of being locked in the open position."

My dishwasher isn't in the garage next to the circuit panel and it's just a regular 20A square D circuit breaker...I'm not sure if those are capable of being locked in the open position or not.

Boy I sure am glad I'm done with my electrical permit/inspection.  They have so many crazy codes it can drive you crazy!

[ChadTower]

Your father does commercial installations, and your house is residential.  Very different set of codes.

[drunkatuw]

Your father does commercial installations, and your house is residential.  Very different set of codes.

Good point.  Although the codes I quoted previously were from the NEC for residential buildings.

[Chris G]

Great job on the finish work.    Finishing our basement laundry room is on my list for this summer too.  Unfortunately it's going to be a nighmare job, since it was originally built with very little thought to it ever being finished... pipes sticking out at odd angles everywhere, heating ducts criss-crossing, and it's the only way to access certain things between floors.

Strangely, I find myself most jealous that you still have room for storage and a dedicated workshop/tool area.

[ChadTower]

Great job on the finish work.    Finishing our basement laundry room is on my list for this summer too.  Unfortunately it's going to be a nighmare job, since it was originally built with very little thought to it ever being finished... pipes sticking out at odd angles everywhere, heating ducts criss-crossing, and it's the only way to access certain things between floors.

That pretty much describes mine, plus tons of evolution over the decades that assumed the area would never be finished.

[drunkatuw]

My mother-in-law found really cheap velvet curtains at IKEA and so I hung those up next to the screen.  They look pretty good.  But now we need something above the screen.  Hopefully, we'll be able to find some matching velvet to make a valence.



Family is arriving tomorrow (my mom offered our house to her entire family because she wanted my brother (and her only grandchild) to stay with her), so I need to get out the router and make a speaker stand for the center channel tonight.

[ChadTower]

Niiiice.  How far from the screen is the projector and did you have to deal with any issues in regard to angle of projection?

[drunkatuw]

The projector is about 11ft from the screen.  It should project a 100" diagonal image, but the wife didn't want the image low to the ground, so I did have to angle it up and use some keystoning to make the image square and also reducing the size of the picture to about 96".  It's not ideal, but it keeps the wife happy.

[ChadTower]

11' gives 100" of image size... good to see.  96" is definitely still nothing to complain about.

What is the screen material? 

(feel free to tell me to stop asking so many questions)

[drunkatuw]

I don't mind the questions at all.  The screen is made from blackout cloth purchased from JoAnn fabrics.  It's like $5.99/yd and I wrapped it around a 1x3 frame and used a staple gun to attach it to the back.

As much as I'd like to say I have a 100" screen for bragging rights, I don't think anyone would know the difference and I don't see any guests getting up during a movie with a tape measure and telling me that it's only 96".


Although i did get a chance to see a 106" screen over the weekend and I must say that the extra 10" made a huge difference.  But the guy that owned the screen really is a rich bastard.  Really nice guy, but really rich

After I saw his theater I thought mine looked like a piece of crap a 3rd grader put together.





He spent more re-finishing (it was already finished, but he was bored with it) his basement then our entire house cost.

A guy can dream....some day.

[pcdoctor]

I assume you are a member of www.avsforum.com.   If not, you should be.

[drunkatuw]

I assume you are a member of www.avsforum.com.   If not, you should be.

Yup, I've been posting everything on avsforum.  I have a thread detailing all the construction.