MiniPAC vs. GP-Wiz

[btp2k2]

Hey guys,

I need some help. I am getting ready to wire up a new cabinet. I have always used the Minipac for my interface solution, so this will be my first foray into actually wiring instead of using the pre made wiring harness.

I need a couple more inputs than the standard 28 the Minipac or Ipac comes with, and saw both the keywiz and GPWiz have 32. I am looking more at the GP Wiz, just because the whole keyboard thing is kind of a bummer and I am looking at having Madden 2007 running on my Seahawks themed cabinet and the gamepad style setup of the GP Wiz would make that transition easy.

Does anyone have any feedback on the GPWiz?

[Tiger-Heli]

I need some help. I am getting ready to wire up a new cabinet. I have always used the Minipac for my interface solution, so this will be my first foray into actually wiring instead of using the pre made wiring harness.

The wiring is pretty simple.  We'll help you out as needed.

I need a couple more inputs than the standard 28 the Minipac or Ipac comes with, and saw both the keywiz and GPWiz have 32.

As does the I-PAC VE, not that I necessarily am recommending that over your other choices, but just to keep all your options open.  (Also, the Mini-PAC has the mouse buttons (I think) so you have at least 30 inputs, if you wanted to stay with your comfort zone).

I am looking more at the GP Wiz, just because the whole keyboard thing is kind of a bummer and I am looking at having Madden 2007 running on my Seahawks themed cabinet and the gamepad style setup of the GP Wiz would make that transition easy.
Does anyone have any feedback on the GPWiz?

I have never used the GPWiz, but lots of others have.  Most (non-MAME) emulators are geared more toward keyboard control (oddly, IMHO), so if you want to use it for emulation, the keyboard encoders seemed like a better choice to me.  (Yes, you can use RBJoy or similar to get keyboard output out of a GPWiz, but why work around the solution when a dedicated solution is available.)

Running Madden 2007 if it doesn't support keyboard inputs would be a good argument for the GP-Wiz, but a couple of points:

Is Madden 2007 looking for analog joystick inputs?  (If so, the GP-Wiz doesn't support this, so you might want to have some flush USB ports on the cab and use PC gamepads).

Is Madden 2007 looking for one joystick per player?  (The GP-Wiz is seen as one joystick (d-pad, basically) and 28 buttons).  For MAME, you can set Buttons 15-18 or whatever to Player 2 directionals, but for 4-player Madden, you might need 4 GP-Wiz Eco's to get the game to see them all.

Another option for Madden 2007 would be to use a program called PPJoy with a keyboard encoder from Madden07 as I mention here: http://www.mameworld.net/tigerheli/encoder/main.htm#Gamepad_Hack_Emulator

[Kaytrim]

I use a GPWiz eco as my main interface on my current MAME system.  There is a stick, 6 action buttons, coin and start for each player.  Plus there is room for a few admin buttons.   I also plan on using a GPWiz for my portable systems.  The eco version needs soldering but there is a solderless version that uses a IDE cable header.  However IMHO the max version is worth the extra cash for the screw terminals.

JoyToKey or RBJoy are free programs that will take care of any keyboard needs.  I haven't used them because I haven't needed to but there are people that like them.

TTFN
Kaytrim

[bfauska]

So far you're getting the same advice I think I would give as a current GPwiz user.  MAME allows flawless use of the GPwiz, some of the other emulators I run however have a few problems.  Nestopia doesn't recognize buttons above number 20 I think so it made carefull button assignment necessary, but I was able to make it work.  Either Stella, or my SNES emulator (I don't remember which SNES one I have, I've only used it to see if I should set it up) only allows inputs expected to be joysticks to act as joysticks, so while I can use all the buttons for player 1 and 2 I have no way of adding a joystick to player 2.  Little things like that are less likely with a KB encoder, but I think they are all workaroundable if you use the GPwiz with some extra software.  The size and price of the GPwiz eco is hard to ignore, but I think next time I may go with the screw terminal version.  I added terminal strips to my setup anyway so part of the cost is there and the setup is nowhere near as clean as it would be with the screw contacts on-board, however if you soldered, you could get some REALLY clean results. 

[btp2k2]

however if you soldered, you could get some REALLY clean results. 

Not if I solder! I could burn down the neighborhood with a solder iron.

I don't run any of those emulators on my cab, pretty much MAME, Daphne and Visual Pinball.

I think I have narrowed it down to the GPWiz and the Ipac VE. I noticed the VE has 32 inputs as well.

[Kaytrim]

however if you soldered, you could get some REALLY clean results. 

Not if I solder! I could burn down the neighborhood with a solder iron.

Go with the GPWiz Max then.  No soldering and easy connections.

Kaytrim

[Tiger-Heli]

I don't run any of those emulators on my cab, pretty much MAME, Daphne and Visual Pinball.

Been a long time since I've run much besides MAME.  MAME is a non-issue.  Any input can be assigned to any keyboard or gamepad input.

What you NEED to look at is:  How does Daphne handle gamepad inputs.  How does Visual Pinball do it?  (If I remember correctly, VP needed an Alt-F4 combo to exit, but you could likely work around this with RBJoy and an AutoHotKey script.  How does Madden 2007 do it.

The above should determine whether you are wanting a keyboard or gamepad encoder, and whether it is a single GPWiz (probably MAX) or two GP-Wiz Eco's (with IDE header).

I think I have narrowed it down to the GPWiz and the Ipac VE. I noticed the VE has 32 inputs as well.

Don't eliminate the KeyWiz from that group.  Both the KeyWiz and the VE use SDRAM and the KeyWiz has a better default codeset, IMHO.  There are minor differences, but the main practical difference between them is the KeyWiz is PS/2 and the VE is USB.

[xmenxmen]

I have use the gpwiz and gpwiz max in a few cabinets.  Want fast connection, go with the max.  If you got sometime, the eco solderless works great and you don't need extra cable.  For the eco, a single ide cable is long enough for most controller.  I have one that's over 34in long and had no problem reaching.  As for games, mine use mainly for mame and chankfast and don't see any problem at all with them.

Also, I also have an eco being use as additional input to make 4 player and it also behaves well.

[btp2k2]

wait a minute....IDE cable? As in the ribbon cable that you use to hook up a HD?

May I ask how that works?

[Kaytrim]

wait a minute....IDE cable? As in the ribbon cable that you use to hook up a HD?

May I ask how that works?

You are correct.  It is a HD ribbon cable.  All you do is connect one end to the GPWiz and cut off the other end.  Then you split the wires and connect them to the switches for the buttons.  I used the euro style terminals.  There is more information on my flickr site.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kaytrim/284894024/in/set-72157594354334723/

[Tiger-Heli]

wait a minute....IDE cable? As in the ribbon cable that you use to hook up a HD?
May I ask how that works?

Maybe not too well -

Best solution - Cut off one end of cable, split individual wires, solder individual wires to button tabs. Plug other end onto GP-Wiz Eco.

Next best solution - Run individual wires to terminal strips and then to button tabs, but if you are going to buy the terminal strips you may as well get the MAX encoder to begin with.

Not great solution - split individual wires, remove insulation and fold over about ten times or jam 18-gaug stranded wire into Quick-Disconnects along with individual wires before crimping in place.

[Kaytrim]

I setup mine this way because I have a modular control panel.  I think in retrospect that I would have been better using the GPWiz Max for my setup.  But at least my pic gives you the idea on how the cable connects to the card.

Kaytrim

[btp2k2]

Interesting....Wow....I have some decision time ahead of me!

Thanks for the info

[bfauska]

Here's another ribbbon cable example, it is fairly clean, but I only have 8 buttons and a joystick hooked up and the rest of the ribbon is cut off.

[BobA]

Alternately you can buy a prewired and terminated harness for the minipac from Ultimarc.

[Kaytrim]

Alternately you can buy a prewired and terminated harness for the minipac from Ultimarc.

What's the fun in that?

[btp2k2]

Well, that and I started this thread with the intention of finding an alternate to the minipac. I have had too many issues, and as I stated before I need more than the 28 inputs the minipac can provide. The Minipac has a bad habit of losing it's programming when you power down the PC. This has happened on every minipac board I have had on every computer I have setup.

[BobA]

You know how these threads get off topic.  I have a GGG Keywiz an IPAC and a minipac and if you need a few extra inputs the Keywiz is the way to go cuz you can add all the shazam adapters you need to pick up the extra keys without touching the shazam button.

[KenToad]

So far you're getting the same advice I think I would give as a current GPwiz user.  MAME allows flawless use of the GPwiz, some of the other emulators I run however have a few problems.  Nestopia doesn't recognize buttons above number 20 I think so it made carefull button assignment necessary, but I was able to make it work.  Either Stella, or my SNES emulator (I don't remember which SNES one I have, I've only used it to see if I should set it up) only allows inputs expected to be joysticks to act as joysticks, so while I can use all the buttons for player 1 and 2 I have no way of adding a joystick to player 2.  Little things like that are less likely with a KB encoder, but I think they are all workaroundable if you use the GPwiz with some extra software. 

This is really great information that should be more well-known in the community.  At least, I didn't even consider a lot of those problems and definitely didn't read about them until I was actually setting up my hardware.

The fact that some emus will only accept up to input 20 or whatever really shows that the developers aren't BYOAC'ers, since what gamepad goes up past button 20?  The KeyWiz has been by far the most versatile encoder for me to have, although my bartop has two GP-Wiz49's and a Keywiz, which is pretty much only there for admin buttons and for Visual Pinball, which has the most pathetic system of remapping controls.  If I were to make a new panel without 49-way sticks, I would definitely choose a KeyWiz for it's virtually universal usefulness, from PC games to every emu I have ever tried. 

I tried and didn't enjoy RB Joy.  It's just too much hassle and kind of silly unless you have an overpowered machine to begin with.  If you're too poor to afford a KeyWiz, you're not likely to be able to afford a decent computer for running extra stuff behind your frontend/emus.  Well, maybe ....

I want to build all those developers their own arcade CP's, so they can stop playing their cool games with a keyboard and MadCatz gamepad and step up to real gaming excitement!   

   

[btp2k2]

Now one thing I am confused about with the GPWiz.....I get the impression it only handles player 1 stuff? Do I need to add a second GPWiz for player 2 controls?

[xmenxmen]

Now one thing I am confused about with the GPWiz.....I get the impression it only handles player 1 stuff? Do I need to add a second GPWiz for player 2 controls?

for mame and and most other games that support joystick, you just map the 2nd player to the joy button, similar to the modular example up there.

ex:  up/down/left/right goes to p1 joy
button 1-6 to p1 buttons
button 7-10 to p2 joy
button 11-16 to p2 buttons
button 16-20 to admin buttons
buttton 21, etc... you should get the point now.....

if you want, you can always assign the up/down/left/right to the buttons and you still won't notice a difference....

The GPWiz is probably the best option for a add-on to get more buttons

[bfauska]

Only one emulator that I have tried needed player 2 to be on a separate controller.  Everything else has worked like xmenxmen said.  If you have seen my lap/desk top CP boxes they both share 1 GPwiz, I just used a DB25 cable to carry the necessary wiring over to the player 2 box.

[btp2k2]

Duh! I should have known that one...

One other quick question re: the GP...does it emulate a keyboard, like the IPac? Based on it's description, it is a gamepad encoder....and does not emulate a keyboard.....can anyone confirm that?

[Kaytrim]

It is seen as a game pad and not a keyboard by Windows.  If you want a keyboard get the KeyWiz.

TTFN
Kaytrim

[btp2k2]

Great! That's all I need to hear....GP Wiz, here I come!

[AndyWarne]

The Minipac has a bad habit of losing it's programming when you power down the PC. This has happened on every minipac board I have had on every computer I have setup.

This will not happen if you download and install the latest version of WinIPAC from www.ultimarc.com/download.html

[btp2k2]

I just received a new disk with an order about 2 weeks ago.....

That should have the newer version on it, correct?