Help a Newbie!! S-Video to TV looks horrible!!

[Mike Ahearn]

I am making a cabinet and everything has come together well until now!!  I have a 27” Toshiba (CZ27V51) and a Dell OptiPlex GX260 with an ATI Radeon 7500 AGP w/S-Video out.  I’m running MAME v113.  It looks great on my computer monitor.  However, I’ve connected it to the TV via S-Video and it looks terrible.  I can’t really read any of the text in Windows XP.  I can barely read the text of the menus in MAME.  Additionally, the entire picture isn't quite centered.  Little black strip on the bottom and left.  What display settings do I need to be using?  Please help me!  I had read other sites where people had great success using ATI cards with S-Video outs.  Thank you so much for any insight.

[Jeff AMN]

Windows will look like a mess on a TV no matter what connection you use. What do the games themselves look like? You'll have to live with an ugly Windows environment, but for games it should be ok. Also, what resolution settings do you have MAME at?

[Mike Ahearn]

Jeff, Thanks for your response.  I'm running MAME at 640x480.  I can see the games okay, but they certainly aren't nearly as crisp as what the appeared on the computer monitor.  Using the TV, I can't read any of the text on the MAME bezels, i.e. Ms Pac Man.  I can hardly read any of the MAME memus to even select a game.  Do I need to adjust the resolution on the display via my control panel in Windows?  I tried changing that to 640x480 but that made the Windows environment enormous?  As to centering the picture, do I need to mess around with the service codes?  Is there a front end which I should be using so I can navigate without sacrificing my vision?  I'm just a bit dissapointed after how well everying else was coming together.  Hopefully with the help of you fine folks, my project will be a huge success.  Thanks for any input from any of you all.

[ahofle]

You should be running the windows desktop at 640x480 (800x600 if you don't mind blurred text).  Have you tried messing around with the ATI control panel?  There should be TV settings in there that allow you to center and size the screen to fit.  There is also an 'anti-flicker' setting if I remember correctly.  Turn that off because all it seems to do it blur the screen to hide the flicker LOL (flicker will only be an issue in windows anyway, not in MAME).  Also make sure your TV's contrast and brightness are not cranked up too high (you can also adjust this in the ATI control panel).  I had that exact same card and was pretty happy with the image on a TV (that is, until I went with an arcade monitor ).

I assume you are using MAME32, not MAME given your descriptions of 'selecting games' and 'menus'.  In MAME32 under the 'options' menu -> 'default game options' make sure you are using directdraw as the video mode (not direct3d).  Uncheck 'stretch using hardware' and check 'switch resolutions to fit'.  If it's a vertical game like Pacman, uncheck 'switch resolutions to fit'.

[Aurich]

This is why I hate it when people say their TV looks close to an arcade monitor, it's misleading to people who read it. Your TV is never going to look anything as sharp as an arcade monitor, let alone the PC CRT you're comparing it to. You can do better than S-video with component, but honestly it's not a drastic upgrade.

Windows text is always going to be blurry, try not to worry about it and enjoy the games which will look pretty decent. Adjust your expectations and you'll be happier.

[armax]

And I hate it when one will capitalize on someone's problem to validate a statement made on another thread.  Many have had success with a TV.  This gentleman apparently has to work out the settings to optimize the picture (which everyone has to do).  Don't give up Mike, do a search and you'll find settings that will give you a great picture.  Naysayers abound here, but the proof is in the number of people who have had great success once everything is tweeked out.  It's not a conspiracy to get people to put TVs in their cabinets.  They work well after getting the settings right.

Mike here is a link to some who used a TV...what a nightmare lol...

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=63696.0

[shorthair]

Jeff did fully explain his procedure, so if someone only read the title, then boo on them.

[TOK]

This is why I hate it when people say their TV looks close to an arcade monitor, it's misleading to people who read it. Your TV is never going to look anything as sharp as an arcade monitor, let alone the PC CRT you're comparing it to. You can do better than S-video with component, but honestly it's not a drastic upgrade.

Windows text is always going to be blurry, try not to worry about it and enjoy the games which will look pretty decent. Adjust your expectations and you'll be happier.

Windows looks like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- on an arcade monitor, too.

[csa3d]

I have a card that has S-video and DVI.  It was night and day when moving from a blurry s-video picture over to crystal clear DVI using a HDMI cable.  Sure, it's not arcade monitor authentic.  But, it's crisp and easier on the eyes then blurr.  Also, don't forget that by default windows doesn't anti-alias fonts, and if you are going to a digital TV, you should consider enabling clear type font in windows.  This alone helps readability tremendously.  I can say that my 65" tv running 720p settings from the computer makes for a very usable windows with a wireless keyboard.  It's also great for maming.  Don't give up, for sure!

-csa

[Mike Ahearn]

ahofle, I see that you posted the MAME settings for using a tv here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=63696.0.  However, do you know the settings for MAME32?  I was able to figure some of them out based on your recommendations in that thread, but not others.  Thanks so much for your help!

[ahofle]

Sure, there are really 3-4 settings that make the biggest difference.  You can ignore most of the other settings I listed as they should already be the default:

Go to the 'options' menu and select 'default options'.
Display tab: videomode = DirectDraw, 'Stretch Using Hardware' = off
Advanced tab: 'triple buffering' = on  (not necessary but helps with screen tearing)
Screen tab: Screen = '\\ \DISPLAY1', resolution = 640x480, switch resolutions to fit = on

For vertical games (Pacman, Donkey Kong, etc), uncheck the 'switch resolutions to fit'.  (Right click on the vertical game and select 'properties' to change the settings only for that game)

[Mike Ahearn]

As my computer did not come with the ATI Control Panel, I went ahead and downloaded it from the ATI site.  However, when the desktop is set at 640 x 480, I am unable to adjust the size of the screen as it is at the bottom of that window.  The window is so big, that I can't make the adjustments and hit the apply button.  Ahofle, any help?

[ahofle]

Ah yeah I remember that problem.  You can usually set the res at 800x600 to do the adjustments -- I believe they should be the same at 640x480.  Alternatively, you can do it at 640x480 and press the 'enter' key to save the settings (since you can't reach the OK button).  I assume you can reach the arrow buttons to size the screen right?

[lettuce]

This is why I hate it when people say their TV looks close to an arcade monitor, it's misleading to people who read it. Your TV is never going to look anything as sharp as an arcade monitor, let alone the PC CRT you're comparing it to. You can do better than S-video with component, but honestly it's not a drastic upgrade.

Windows text is always going to be blurry, try not to worry about it and enjoy the games which will look pretty decent. Adjust your expectations and you'll be happier.

This is not totally true if you live in the UK or Europe, as we have the scart connection over here which is better display connection than S-video, and my TV does indeed look the same a my Old WG monitor I had, when connected up using the scart connection and a ArcadeVGA card, even andy who makes the AVGA card says it turns your TV in an Arcade monitor, which is a good thing really as over here in the UK there are hardly any Arcade Monitor supplers

[Mike Ahearn]

Ahofle, I could use all the arrows except the bottom one.  But by clicking my mouse near the arrows, a directional arrow appeared as my cursor and I was able to move the screen down.  However, after I got the correct position, I hit "enter", but it merely reverted back to where it was once I got out of the control panel.  I don't think hitting "enter" activates the "apply" button.  Additionally, I couldn't even see the "apply" button at the bottom of the windo in 640 x 480, even when I drug the window with my mouse before it jumped back down below the task bar after releasing the mouse button.  I'll try to set in in 800 x 600 and then switch it back.  I thought I tried that, but I'll try again.  You would think ATI would make those windows so you could scroll down, especially since these cards are designed so you can use a TV.  What a pain!!  If you have any other suggestions, let me know.  Thanks for your help.

[ahofle]

Yes I agree it sucks they didn't size that dialog appropriately for lower TV resolutions.  Here's another idea.  Windows usually allows you to press buttons using only the keyboard.  Set the resolution at 800x600 and then go back into that sizing dialog and put 'focus' on some button or control that you know you can see at 640x480.  Now keep pressing tab until you are on the apply or OK button (you will see a little 'focus rectangle' on the button).  Count the number of times you pressed tab.  Now go back into 640x480, adjust the screen, put the focus on the same control and tab the correct number of times.  Focus should be on the button and you can press the space bar to press it even though you can't see it.

[Moose13]

I'm havin gthe smae problems too with the ATI programs. I set the desktop to 800x600, did my adjustments and back to 640x480. It worked out OK and loosk pretty good in windows. Now when I try to run Mame32 (through maximus arcade), the screen is off center. I have a small black bar on the left and the bottom. Any way I can fix this?

Also I tried for the 1st time to hook it up with Component input. The picture seemed "sharper" but was VERY Shaky or flickery (I don't know how to discribe it). I tried to change the resolution via ATI program, but them got garbage and cound't see anything, so I unplugged the DVI and restarted to get back to s-video. It was late last night so I didn't have much time to experiment further. I will try again tonight, but while I'm sitting at work I'm trying to figure it out in my head. Any setting I should stick to for the DVI/component setup?