Ideal / Minimum No. Control keys on a CP

[Anubis_au]

Hi all

I'm a newbie member to this site although I have been heavilly reading the forums for weeks now.

I am in the very, very preliminary stages for building a CP which may or may not extend into a full cabinet. At the moment, I am planning the CP layout etc.

I wanted to get input from the building community out there on what they consider to be the ideal / minimum number of control buttons needed for a MAME CP.

My CP will be two player outfit, and I will be using an IPAC-2 as encoder.

The control functions I want to have are:

Player 1 coin
Player 1 start
Player 2 coin
Player 2 start
Select game
Exit back to FE / quit FE
Pause

What are people's opinions on the best way to achieve this functionalith with the fewest amount of buttons, using the shifting function of the IPAC?

I'm not even sure if some of these are redundant eg do you need separate coin buttons? From memory, TMNT and Simpsons etc needed this?

Help / input appreciated. Also, if I've forgotten anything critical (like ~ to get to clone game,TAB for menu) can you let me know.

[spriggy]

'Shift' Function.
With 2 joysticks and six buttons each (plus player 1 and 2), as a general standard, there's plenty of extended keys.

[mwatson]

As spriggy said, the shift function is great for eliminating all the control buttons.

Personally I'd like to have a few basic ones (enter (likely mapped to Player 1/2  button 1)/exit/pause) so I won't have to explain how to run games to friends repeatedly. Otherwise the shift function will be great for all your other ones.

[Anubis_au]

OK, I know that with the shift function, all the control functions can be mapped to ordinary player buttons, but I am wondering whether this is the way to go.

I don't want to be in the middle of a game and have to shift-press a button to start a game / add extra credit.

Obviously, there are some functions that pretty much everyone has mapped to a unique key (pause, player start etc).

I want o try minimising, but I don't want to go all the way down to zero dedicated function buttons!

I like the layout of the Bella's arcade being built. Does anyone see a way to improve on that?

[Luigi]

Well, the number of buttons per player depends on what games you wish to play on your cab. If you just want to play the classic stuff (like 1942, Donkey Kong, Galaga, Dig Dug, etc.) you should be satisfied with 3 buttons. Most of the NeoGeo-Games need 4 buttons and if you want to play the Beat'emups you need at least 6 Buttons per player.

Of course there are some functions that have a specific buttons: Start Player1, Start Player2, Coin.

Some shifted functions:

Start Player1 + Start Player2 = ESC
Start Player1 + Player1 down = pause game

These are the pre-configured shifted keys and there are a lot more.

The problem is that if you are playing together and one of the players "dies" and wants to start again and bumps both start buttons the game is ended 

[Tiger-Heli]

I really recommend dedicated:

Coin1
Coin2
Start1
Start2
Pause
Enter

If I really wanted to eliminate a button (and used an I-PAC), I would have Pause as my shift input and Esc as a Shifted function after Pause was pressed.

Start1+Start2=Esc was a really bad idea.

[javeryh]

I recommend:

P1 Start (also selects the game from the front end)
P2 Start
Exit (to ESC to the front end)
Coin (if you aren't using a coin door; coin2 is also a possibility because some games need it for player 2)
Pause (this one is optional but I like it - the original games didn't have it though)

The reason I would suggest all of these buttons is for friends and other people who might play on your cabinet.  My first cab had some of these buttons but they weren't labeled (I wasn't finished yet but the cab was playable) and no one could remember a damn thing.  Every single time they wanted to switch games, insert a coin, pause, start, etc. I had to explain it to them.  They got the hang of it after a couple of hours but the next time they came over I had to explain everything again.  I can't imagine the headache of explaining a shift button...

[TOK]

I don't like having any buttons that wouldn't be on an arcade game on my panel. I use the shift function for some stuff, but also hide any admin/convienience buttons I don't need either under the CP or on top of the cab above the marqee.
It mades the panel look clean and also keeps anyone from inadvertently hitting them.

[Jeff AMN]

Here's what I have:

P1 Coin
P2 Start
P1 Buttons (7 buttons SF/Neo Geo layout)
P2 Coin
P2 Start
P2 Buttons (same as P1)

Shifted Commands:
Enter
Esc
Pause
Tab

[Anubis_au]

Thanks to all the input from everyone.

I have what I think will be my CP design, although I welcome feedback and opinions.

Sorry for the crappy text version but I'm confident everyone can understand this

My planned button layout will be:

   (p1b4)   (p1b5)   (p1b6)         (p2b4)   (p2b5)   (p2b6)

(joy)            (pause)   (joy)

   (p1b1)   (p1b2)   (p1b3)         (p2b1)   (p2b2)   (p2b3)

The pause button in the middle will be my shifter, and I will shift buttons for the following functionality:

Pause      Pause (duh)

Pause + p1b4   Insert Coin
Pause + p1b5   Player 1 Start
Pause + p1b6   Enter (select Game)

Pause + p2b4   Insert Coin
Pause + p2b5   Player 2 Start
Pause + p2b6   Exit (Quit Game)

The way I figure things, in most games you only use the first three player buttons (bottom row) at most, and so it should be fairly safe for one of the players to be using the shifting function (top row buttons) without the other player accidentally sending the wrong signal by inadvertantly pressing a button while the shift is down.

For this reason, I've also decided to make the exit command be part of the Player 2 buttons, so if you are playing pacman, wonderboy etc, there is no chance of acidentally exiting back to the front end.

The only times both players use all six game buttons are in the middle of a game of SF2 for example - hardly the time for adding extra coins!

So all in all, I think this layout works on minimising buttons while keeping accidental exiting etc to a minimum. What do people think?

Before I forget, this whole setup kind of hinges on being able to get button inserts/discs so that guests can understand iconically how everything works. I have already contacted MikeDeuce about getting the inserts. Hopefully he is still making them and I can get some. If not, it's either rethink the layout or use different colours for different buttons... and I really, really want all the buttons to be red translucent Happs!!

As for the seventh player button, I may or may not put these on the CP. As I've written in another topic, I still have the full romset for Mame 0.77 from a cab conversion from Nov 2003. One of the things I told myself was, for my next cab, to cut the number of games down to only the ones I like to play. So, the seventh player buttons will depend on whether I find enough Neo-Geo games to keep in the list to justify the extra buttons.

I don't even like street fighter - these extra buttons are purely for guests. I'm real old school for this stuff - Galaga, Wonderboy, Pacman, Bombjack etc.

Anyway, thanks for reading, and assisting. I'm going to have many more questions coming up on hardware, software etc and just generally support to justify the expenditure on something I don't need but SOOOO want. Long live MAME!

[Anubis_au]

Sorry, some weird cut n paste error. Below is the layout. No, I am NOT putting the pause button in between my player buttons. It will be between both players...

   (p1b4)   (p1b5)   (p1b6)         (p2b4)   (p2b5)   (p2b6)

(joy)            (pause)   (joy)

   (p1b1)   (p1b2)   (p1b3)         (p2b1)   (p2b2)   (p2b3)

[Anubis_au]

OK, so its not a cut n paste error, its how this thing formats my text.

So below, if the pic comes through, is the layout. Again, in crappy text...

[4Aaron GE]

How much space are you going to put between the players?   You don't want player 2 potentially hitting the pause button with his/her arm.

[Anubis_au]

That will depend on the cab design. I am still a way off from these sort of considerations. If the pause can't be between the players, it will be placed at the top of the CP etc.

But, I know where you are coming from, you don't want accidental button presses...

[theCoder]

If you are going to have a coin door, you can also mount switch's behind the coin return "buttons" to act as the coin1 & coin2 buttons.  Just another two buttons you can avoid on the CP and much more intuitive than a shift combo.  Also, document the shift functions in some fashion.  On my first project, I, like javeryh, could not remember what buttons to push.  On my last project I put the shift function text in a small font in a color similar to the background around the button/joystick;  hidden to the casual observer, but there when you need it. 

[Anubis_au]

No coin door. Everything will be done by buttons.

But I want to make this as simple as possible for people, which is why I'm hoping to get button discs off MikeDeuce. That way, I'll have a nice graphic that shows iconically, this button + this button = this function.

[javeryh]

Why not move the pause button off of the top of your CP altogether?  It looks a little awkward just having the one button to the left of the player 2 joystick...

[Anubis_au]

It will come down to a space / size of CP issue, but agreed, the pause button can always be mounted on the front, underneath the CP etc...

[blueznl]

Combining 'pause' 'help' and 'shift' might be a good idea. Label the button as 'pause', when you press it a help screen pops up, and explains how to use the 'help' button as a shift button for all other functions. Perhaps even show an image on screen, with a picture of what each button does.

This obviously may not work with all games, and another issue would be to return to the game AFTER pressing the 'help' key the first time... bloody Windows...

If there is a program that would show a one screen image, and would return to the old screen after exiting it, perhaps two buttons would do then. Hit 'help' and it shows the screen, the button next to it would be called 'pause' and would work as either a pause function, or as a shift button.

Is there such a pop-up program? (Ie. something that shows an image full screen, then after exiting returns the user to whatever he/she was doing. WIndows normally does not return to the calling program if the calling program is a full screen DirectX thingy, but would stay at the desktop.

Just an idea.

[Tiger-Heli]

Is there such a pop-up program? (Ie. something that shows an image full screen, then after exiting returns the user to whatever he/she was doing).

Can be done fairly easily using AutoHotKey, and either Johnny5, CPViewer, or Irfanview.

See http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=64349.msg644334#msg644334 for details, and see if that can be modded to do what you need.

PM me if needed.