1st timer, newbee question.

[granty]

Hi,

I am very new to all this 'build an arcade cabinet' project stuff.  I am however in my 30's and have spent many happy hours playing the old arcade games, I have MAME32 on the PC and enjoy playing them there but without the control panel it's not the same.

Just wanted to ask a few question, I am going to attempt to build a Full cabinet at some point in time but for the time being just assemble the bits in a corner of the garage to see if they work.

I currently have a 17" CRT monitor, an old PIII processor + mobo, AGP rage pro video card, PSU 40GB HDD.

I have read that MAMEWAH is a good option for a front end to the rom's? - is this true or is there a better alternative. - On a more general point (I guess I need to the section on how to hide Windows) do these finished cabinets actually startup like the old 'uns or do you actually see windows and then have to navigate manually to get the Emulator fired up ?

As for the control panel, I am assuming that you cut the end of a keyboard and then rewire this to buttons / joystick pins (or have I got the wrong end of the stick??)

I guess what I'm really trying to say is that I am extremely keen but am slightly stuck to know how to actually get this project started.

Any help very very welcome

Thanks

Paul.

[Kaytrim]

Take some time and paruse the threads here and get Saints book.  There is a lot more then just cuttin' the keyboard cable to connect the controls up to your PC.

TTFN
Kaytrim

[shardian]

Buy and read.

Ha, I beat you Chad.

The book is your best bet on getting up and running fairly quickly.

[Arcades R Fun]

Hello,
Congratulations on finding this web site! 
While you are waiting on the mail to deliver Saint's "Project Arcade" book go to the Wiki located on the bottom left of this site page. This is a great starting point for info on "BYOAC".

Here's the link:
http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Main_Page

[4Aaron GE]

Hey Granty.

I'm a bit of a newb too, but I can give you a bit of direction

Some people have thier cabinets configured to automatically go straight to the emulator on startup, other people have a hotkey that sends the computer into sleep mode, and the computer just starts where it left off (in the emulator).

For the control panel, don't just use the end of the keyboard.  Most people here would recommend getting an ipac from Ultimarc.  A regular keyboard hack results in a LOT of headaches.


I'm sure someone more experienced can give you a more in depth explanation of this stuff/correct what I got wrong.

[granty]

Thankyou all for the replies, I will get the book, I can't wait to get started 

[Tiger-Heli]

I currently have a 17" CRT monitor, an old PIII processor + mobo, AGP rage pro video card, PSU 40GB HDD.

Whatever you are currently using with this will work in the cabinet, but I recommend using something like MAME 0.53-0.56 with that slow of a processor.

I have read that MAMEWAH is a good option for a front end to the rom's? - is this true or is there a better alternative. - On a more general point (I guess I need to the section on how to hide Windows) do these finished cabinets actually startup like the old 'uns or do you actually see windows and then have to navigate manually to get the Emulator fired up ?

MAMEwah is very popular, as are Atomic FE and Mala.  You really have to play around and see which one will do what you want.  Most people hide Windows and there are tips in the Wiki on how to do so.

As for the control panel, I am assuming that you cut the end of a keyboard and then rewire this to buttons / joystick pins (or have I got the wrong end of the stick??)

You can do that - I have a detailed guide up on how to do so, but as others have said, it's a hassle and not really recommended.  Look into an I-PAC from www.ultimarc.com or a KeyWiz or GP-Wiz from www.groovygamegear.com.  No-solder versions of the GGG encoders are availble under $25.

[Zeppo]

Welcome.

Here is a good thread I found when I first started about hiding Windows and making Mamewah your front end shell.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=53467.0

Good luck.

[Fozzy The Bear]

I'm a bit of a newb too, but I can give you a bit of direction
[SNIP]
Most people here would recommend getting an ipac from Ultimarc.

Most people here would not recommend getting an IPac from Ultimarc... Most people here would tell you about the IPac and about the Keywiz from Groovy Game Gear... and then let you make your own mind up. 

IMHO. The Keywiz  especially in the no solder version is actually a better product. Here's the link: http://www.groovygamegear.com

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[Tiger-Heli]

Most people here would not recommend getting an IPac from Ultimarc... Most people here would tell you about the IPac and about the Keywiz from Groovy Game Gear... and then let you make your own mind up. 

Agreed or GP-Wiz - All are good products and without knowing the specific requirements of the individual, it is wrong to recommend one over the others.

[NiteWalker]

IMHO. The Keywiz  especially in the no solder version is actually a better product. Here's the link: http://www.groovygamegear.com

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

Why so? I was always under the impression that the Ipac2 was the better encoder.

[Kaytrim]

IMHO. The Keywiz  especially in the no solder version is actually a better product. Here's the link: http://www.groovygamegear.com

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

Why so? I was always under the impression that the Ipac2 was the better encoder.

Not to get into an interface war here.  I am just stating what I have for an opinion.  Between the two interfaces, KeyWiz Max and Ipac2, I would choose the KeyWiz if you have a PS/2 port on the computer.  Otherwise I'd have to go with the Ipac2 if what I wanted was a keyboard encoder.  If you want to add a game pad option then I would go with the GPWiz.  The KeyWiz is a PS/2 option only.  Randy's USB option is the GPWiz.  Randy went this way for technical reasons that I cannot even begin to describe or understand.  All I know is that I have not had any problems with his GPWiz boards.  I am also getting ready to use the KeyWiz, GPWiz49 and OptiWiz in the next version of my control panel.  I plan on using my GPWiz for a portable single player CP.

TTFN 
Kaytrim

[Tiger-Heli]

IMHO. The Keywiz  especially in the no solder version is actually a better product. Here's the link: http://www.groovygamegear.com
Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

Why so? I was always under the impression that the Ipac2 was the better encoder.

I'll let Fozzy answer since he made the original assertion, but . . . They all have different pros and cons - IMHO.

32 inputs vs. 28 inputs - advantage KeyWiz (but the I-PAC VE has 32 also)
EEPROM vs. SDRAM - advantage I-PAC.
Number of shifted inputs - advantage I-PAC (but 24 on the KW is probably plenty).
USB or PS/2 capability - advantage I-PAC.
Cost - Advantage KeyWiz
Software Speed - Probably advantage I-PAC, but I need to test the KW 2.0 software.
Shift Key Implementation - Personal Preference - I like the KW better, others like the I-PAC better.
Overall processing throughput - Likely KW advantage, but not sure it matters.

FWIW . . .

[vrf]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't the Keywiz need a dedicated shift button (no function other than shift), whereas the Ipac's shift button can have it's own function?

Seems like this would be a important distinction for those wanting to reduce clutter on their panel.

[shardian]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't the Keywiz need a dedicated shift button (no function other than shift), whereas the Ipac's shift button can have it's own function?

Seems like this would be a important distinction for those wanting to reduce clutter on their panel.

IPAC has the shift function hard wired to the 1p input on the board. The keywiz has a dedicated shift (Shazaam)input. You can reprogram the ipac and create a dedicated shift function, bt if you do that you are better of with the keywiz.

[vrf]

But if you don't want a dedicated shift, then you'd want the ipac.

[shardian]

But if you don't want a dedicated shift, then you'd want the ipac.

Pretty much. Both products are excellent and very comparable at all levels and versions. The main difference is the shift function. On a desktop CP or a smaller classic cabinet, a dedicated shift button takes up valuable landscape and can be an eyesore IMO.

However, a dedicated shift button hidden inside the coin door could be a very good thing if you wanted to keep people from screwing up your settings.

[Jeff AMN]

I don't have tons of experience here, but I'm currently in love with my MiniPac.

[knave]

I was under the impression that the KeyWiz (shazam!) button could be wired to any input you wanted so it could share a button?

Am I wrong?

[Kaytrim]

I was under the impression that the KeyWiz (shazam!) button could be wired to any input you wanted so it could share a button?

Am I wrong?

Just the opposet, you can wire the shazam input in conjunction with another input and connect that to an extra button for a dedicated button.  In other words you can have more than 32 inputs on your CP, up to 56 inputs and only one interface card.  Randy has a link to a wiring diagram example on his sales page for the KeyWiz.

TTFN
Kaytrim

[Tiger-Heli]

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, lots of bad info in this thread now. . .

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't the Keywiz need a dedicated shift button (no function other than shift), whereas the Ipac's shift button can have it's own function?
Seems like this would be a important distinction for those wanting to reduce clutter on their panel.

Yes, but the I-PAC's shift button can cause other issues (accidental activation, etc.)  And you CAN make the KeyWiz shift function behave similarly to the I-PAC with some fancy wiring:  http://www.mameworld.net/tigerheli/encoder/shiftkeys.htm  (See I-PAC Compatibility mode about half-way down the page).

Pretty much. Both products are excellent and very comparable at all levels and versions. The main difference is the shift function. On a desktop CP or a smaller classic cabinet, a dedicated shift button takes up valuable landscape and can be an eyesore IMO.

I don't agree at all that the main difference is the shift function.  The main differences to me are number of inputs, EEPROM and USB capability.

I was under the impression that the KeyWiz (shazam!) button could be wired to any input you wanted so it could share a button?
Am I wrong?

You are not wrong, but it is not as simple as you suggest, see link above.

Just the opposet, you can wire the shazam input in conjunction with another input and connect that to an extra button for a dedicated button.  In other words you can have more than 32 inputs on your CP, up to 56 inputs and only one interface card.  Randy has a link to a wiring diagram example on his sales page for the KeyWiz.

I read this wrong initially - now I understand what you are referring to but it needs clarification.  You can wire it so it functions as Knave suggests.  You also can wire it as a dedicated input (with either a KeyWiz or an I-PAC) as you suggest above, which I refer to as "Stealth-Mode" (at the link above).  What you cannot do is use the KeyWiz with 56 Action Inputs!!! The most you could do is 32 active and 24 ADMIN inputs.  The way you wrote it, I think people would think you could have a full 56-input encoder with the KeyWiz.  The best you can do is 4-players and 4-buttons each with stealth-shifted coin and start inputs, as I explain here: http://www.mameworld.net/tigerheli/encoder/keyassignments.htm

BTW, go to the root page: http://www.mameworld.net/tigerheli/ for links to all (most) of my arcade stuff on the web.

[u_rebelscum]

IPAC has the shift function hard wired to the 1p input on the board.

Another correction.  Quote from ultimarc:

Shift functions. Holding "Start1" and pressing other buttons sends a range of codes for MAME functions such as "escape", "Coin 1", "tab", "enter". This means no extra buttons are needed on the cabinet. In programmable mode any input can be the shift key and all keys can be programmed with a shifted code.

IOW, ipac defaults to player1 start, but you can change this. 
(IMO, you need to change the defaults since start1 + start2 defaults to exiting mame, which will happen at just the wrong time.)

[shardian]

IPAC has the shift function hard wired to the 1p input on the board.

Another correction.  Quote from ultimarc:

Shift functions. Holding "Start1" and pressing other buttons sends a range of codes for MAME functions such as "escape", "Coin 1", "tab", "enter". This means no extra buttons are needed on the cabinet. In programmable mode any input can be the shift key and all keys can be programmed with a shifted code.

IOW, ipac defaults to player1 start, but you can change this. 
(IMO, you need to change the defaults since start1 + start2 defaults to exiting mame, which will happen at just the wrong time.)

The actual  1player pin on the encoder is still the shift input.

[shardian]

I don't agree at all that the main difference is the shift function.  The main differences to me are number of inputs, EEPROM and USB capability.

For an average user with a 2 player control panel on their machine:
28 inputs or 32 - not truly relevant since most don't use all 28 inputs of the IPAC, and if they do then they more than likely have too many dedicated admin buttons anyways.

EEPROM - most people who get an encoder just wire them up according to MAME defaults. Unless you are doing something unique, or trying to put way more emulators than you should on your cabinet the memory version won't be overly important.

USB - in a dedicated cabinet there really isn't a reason to use the usb functionality of the IPAC. The only place this has relevance is in a desktop CP which will be hot swapped on a regular basis.

Forgive me for trying to simplify things for the newbie a little bit.

[Tiger-Heli]

The actual  1player pin on the encoder is still the shift input.

No, it isn't.  As I understand it.  By default, the P1Start Pin is the shift input, and true, you could wire any other button to that input, but you can also assign any pin to be the shift input through the WinIpac software without re-wiring the board.

Personally, I would recommend having a dedicated input for Pause and using this button to activate the shift functions.

[unclet]

I thought another difference between the KeyWiz and Ipac was that the IPAC allows you to have an attached pass-thru keyboard connection active at all times, where the KeyWiz requires the user to flick a switch on the encoder to indicate that the keyboard is now active.    So if I wanted to pull ut my keyboard to press a few keystrokes to change a configuration or something, then I could do this with the IPAC2 no problem, but if I had a KeyWiz then I would first need to lift my control panel up and flick a switch on the encoder module first, then use my keyboard directly (of course when I was done, I would need to flick the switch back).

I think I read this at Tiger-Heli's site somewhere awhile back ... I could be wrong and I apologize if I am, but if so I am sure Tiger-Heli will set me straight .....

[Tiger-Heli]

For an average user with a 2 player control panel on their machine:
Forgive me for trying to simplify things for the newbie a little bit.

Simplification is great, but by doing so you are also making assumptions which may not be accurate.

28 inputs or 32 - not truly relevant since most don't use all 28 inputs of the IPAC, and if they do then they more than likely have too many dedicated admin buttons anyways.

The I-PAC default is 8 buttons per player and 2 coin and 2 start buttons.  The extra 4 defaults on the KW get you dedicated P (Pause), Esc, Enter, and Tab, which are nice to have since the KW does not store custom codesets, so these inputs would be lost unless you load the KW software to update them to your custom settings.  OTOH, it is also true that you don't NEED 8 buttons per player for arcade games, so you could assign buttons 8 to Pause and Escape, and the I-PAC would remember these settings.

EEPROM - most people who get an encoder just wire them up according to MAME defaults. Unless you are doing something unique, or trying to put way more emulators than you should on your cabinet the memory version won't be overly important.

That is the common thought pattern.  Actually the choice between EEPROM and SDRAM is mainly critical for a desktop CP where you need to have a good default codeset with SDRAM as the encoder will be hot-swapped and will lose it's memory.  With a full cab, you can easily re-program the SDRAM at boot-up so it really doesn't matter.

USB - in a dedicated cabinet there really isn't a reason to use the usb functionality of the IPAC. The only place this has relevance is in a desktop CP which will be hot swapped on a regular basis.

Actually, while USB is a bit more intuitive for a desktop CP, the decision on which to use really comes down to your motherboard ports and whether you have USB or PS/2 available for usage.

[Tiger-Heli]

I thought another difference between the KeyWiz and Ipac was that the IPAC allows you to have an attached pass-thru keyboard connection active at all times, where the KeyWiz requires the user to flick a switch on the encoder to indicate that the keyboard is now active.    So if I wanted to pull ut my keyboard to press a few keystrokes to change a configuration or something, then I could do this with the IPAC2 no problem, but if I had a KeyWiz then I would first need to lift my control panel up and flick a switch on the encoder module first, then use my keyboard directly (of course when I was done, I would need to flick the switch back).

You are correct.  Personally, I find this fairly highly over-rated - but then again, I feel that way about Shift Functionality and Shardian feels that way about number of inputs, so . . .

First off, I use a desktop CP with my KeyWiz.  It would be nice to have a USB keyboard hooked up, but b/c I use XP, it won't recognize the KW unless I have it or a PS/2 keyboard plugged in at bootup.  So I use a PS/2 keyboard and hot-swap it for the desktop CP.  I could plug the PS/2 keyboard into the KW and flick the switch, but it is just as easy to hot-swap the keyboard back in place of the KW.

If you have a dedicated arcade cab, you could use a PS/2 keyboard with the I-PAC's pass-thru, or you could run your PS/2 keyboard through a USB adapter ($8-ish) with the KW, or use a USB keyboard ($10), or a wireless keyboard ($20-ish).  Or you could just unplug the KW and plug the PS/2 keyboard into the mobo and then replace the KW connection.  Basically, the USB keyboard eats up some, but maybe not all of your cost savings with the KW, but the pass-thru wouldn't be my primary concern.

[BobA]

Love the encoder wars but my comment is regarding monitor size.    A 17 inch monitor looks too small in a full size cab.   Consider a bartop if you want the monitor to fit the cab.

[Kaytrim]

Love the encoder wars but my comment is regarding monitor size.    A 17 inch monitor looks too small in a full size cab.   Consider a bartop if you want the monitor to fit the cab.

17 inch monitors may be a bit big for a bartop cab.  13 and 15 seem to be the standard there.  I do agree that a 17 inch can be a bit small for a full cab.  I plan on a 20-21" computer monitor when I can afford one.

[granty]

Enjoyed reading this interface debate, I'm going to go with using an I-PAC (Gotta start somewhere  ).  I will be building a 2 player control panel and I have acquired a 19" CRT monitor for the cabinet as suggested.


I'll report back when I have mase a start.

Thansk very much for the advice so far.

[u_rebelscum]

The actual  1player pin on the encoder is still the shift input.

No, it isn't.  ...  By default the P1Start Pin is the shift input, ... but you can also assign any pin to be the shift input through the WinIpac software without re-wiring the board.

Definitely confirm.

Personally, I would recommend having a dedicated input for Pause and using this button to activate the shift functions.

Agree, but almost anything getting rid of the default start1+start2 = exit is a Good Idea.

[Tiger-Heli]

And this is REALLY nit-picking but while we're sorta on-topic, your earlier quote needs to be:

Another correction.  Quote from ultimarc:
Quote
Shift functions. Holding "Start1" and pressing other buttons sends a range of codes for MAME functions such as "escape", "Coin 1", "tab", "enter". This means no extra buttons are needed on the cabinet. In programmable mode any input can be the shift key and all OTHER keys can be programmed with a shifted code.

You can't assign a shifted function to the key that sends the shift key - so in reality you have 28 standard and 27 shifted inputs on the I-PAC.

What is not really nit-picking is that the I-PAC shift function effectively loses one action input.  (You can't very well use an input for FIRE if pressing it and any other button sends some admin code.)

With the KeyWiz - all 32 inputs can be used for gaming, and you have an "extra" input that can be used to send 24 shift codes.

With the I-PAC - if you use shifted inputs - only 27 inputs are available for action inputs.

[vrf]

Did Tiger really just say he wasn't nit-picking? 

[Tiger-Heli]

Did Tiger really just say he wasn't nit-picking? 

Only for part of my reply, but I guess even that is arguable