Horror FPS bartop

[ChadTower]

Time for me to step up and build a game.  I've restored some, mostly pins, but haven't done any scratch builds.  I'm very new to woodworking so I'm starting the design now.

I'm going to build a bartop for Horror based FPS PC games.  Killing Time, Blood, Blood 2, maybe Undying and Systemshock.  Recommendations for other horror FPS games are welcome. 

The PC will end up being determined once the games list is hammered out for sure. 

First decision:  CRT or LCD?  LCD is smaller but used CRTs can be had all day long for free...

Second decision:  control scheme.  Since most FPS games are played by default with arrow keys for movement and mouse for aim/fire, I'm thinking trackball and trigger+button joystick.  Trackball covers mouse looking, joystick covers arrow keys (8 way), trigger+button cover the two mouse buttons.  Anyone see a flaw in that?



EDIT (the evaluation list is fluid):

Games that are definitely in: Killing time

Games that are out:  Starship Troopers

Games to evaluate:  Killing Time, Blood, Blood 2, Doom (horror levels only), dark forces, starship troopers, Alien Vs Predator, Undying, Systemshock, American McGee's Alice

System requirements: 

• Killing Time  - Win95/98
• Blood 1 & 2  - DOS
• Doom or Doom 95  - DOS or Win95
• Dark Forces  - DOS
• Starship Troopers - XP/Win2ksp4, 2ghz, 512mb, 128mb video card
• Aliens vs Predators - Win98, 200 MHz CPU, 32 MB RAM
• Undying - Win98, 500 Mhz, 256 MB RAM, 32 MB Direct3D vid
• System Shock - DOS
• American McGee's Alice - 400 MHz PowerPC G3 (whatever the x86 equivalent is), 128 MB RAM, ATI Rage 128 or NVIDIA GeForce2

PC is purchased.  Specs here.

[somunny]

Trackball covers mouse looking, joystick covers arrow keys (8 way), trigger+button cover the two mouse buttons.  Anyone see a flaw in that?

I think this sounds like a good combo but are you planning on using one of the "flight" or "tank" type trigger sticks?  One of those might be a little large for a bartop and end up blocking part of the screen.

[Kaytrim]

Don't forget the DOOM series of games.  They might not have been horror but they sure have the blood and guts.

TTFN 
Kaytrim

[johnperkins21]

Don't forget the DOOM series of games.  They might not have been horror but they sure have the blood and guts.

TTFN 
Kaytrim

Absolutely add DOOM. There are still some .wad files out there that are horror based I believe. And technically I'd think Half Life would be horror-esque enough to go on the cab.

And while not exactly an FPS, you would be doing your cab a dis-service by not including Alone in the Dark.

[SithMaster]

Ultimate doom, doom 2, final doom, a custom wad called doom arcade where you have to kill to add time to your clock, half life, dark forces, starship troopers maybe, and avp (first one).

for some reason when i think of the movement i think buttons would be better.

[TOK]

Even though I don't think FPS controls carry over well to any arcade controls, I love your idea for the theme. Think I'd skip the stick and use the layout of the Quake arcade game.

[TOK]

Double post, sorry!

[spacies]

I am new to the whole  FPS thing and I now play Call of Duty online a lot.

This is a bloody great idea for a bartop.
Kinda steps away from the 80s stuff which isnt a bad thing.

Dam, now I want one. 

Tok, good pic. That layout would be perfect.

Dam, now I REALLY want one.   

*closes eyes and backs out of thread*

[leapinlew]

Trackball covers mouse looking, joystick covers arrow keys (8 way), trigger+button cover the two mouse buttons.  Anyone see a flaw in that?

I think this sounds like a good combo but are you planning on using one of the "flight" or "tank" type trigger sticks?  One of those might be a little large for a bartop and end up blocking part of the screen.

A flight stick is a good idea, but this is going to be hard to pull off without some funky layout. You'll need to be able to switch weapons. Some games had alternate fires. There were items to use, there was inventory to switch between (like medkits, flight packs, etc.), you'll need to be able to run and walk, and duck...

For the most basic FPS (DOOM and Wolfenstein) I used

W- walk forward
S - walk backward
A - strafe left
D - strafe right
Space - use (open doors)

Mouse - look around
Mouse trigger 1 - fire

Thats about as simple as it gets. As the genre advanced, so did the control scheme. In addition to the above layout I would often need:

[ and ] to switch between inventory items
1-10 to select individual weapons or Q for weapon next and E for weapon previous
shift for run
cntrl for duck
mouse 2 - alternate fire

[KenToad]

I've been thinking about making a CP like the one TOK posted for quite a while ... and that is the layout that Ive been dreaming about, except I'd put the trackball on the left side, even though I'm right handed, but I guess I would need to playtest a bit first.

Chad, definitely include Thief 1 and Thief 2, not horror per se, but very scary at times and some of the best single-player FPS'es ever ... oh, and zombies, very stupid zombies.

[ChadTower]

Hrm.  Some great comments.  One of the reasons I'm making it limited specifically to horror FPS is to try and cut down on the amount of games.  The more games you add, the harder it is to come up with an effective CP.

So far, I see size of stick being an issue, but since it's not going into an abusive environment we may be able to get away with a strong console stick rather than a foot high arcade stick.

When I think of some of the smaller functions, like duck and run, I am starting to see buttons on the front of the CP... the vertical piece, rather than the horizontal one.  Like inverted shoulder buttons for your thumb. 

Obviously the game selection and CP design are going to be critical here.

[leapinlew]

Not sure if this would work - but I loved Resident Evil. 3rd person horror (with terrible voice overs)

add a gun and you could do House of the Dead

[shardian]

I have to say I am against the idea of a fps bartop. These games just don't translate well at all to arcade controls. There is an Atari FPS arcade game (don't recall the name right off) that uses buttons and a trigger stick. The control is very awkward.

[ChadTower]

Now we're getting too far from the original concept.  There has to be a good control scheme - after all, the control scheme is acceptable on the PC, right?

The only game in that list that is mandatory is Killing Time.  That's the reason I'm building this in the first place.  Maybe what I need to do is build a PC and install all of these games on it.  That way I can evaluate the control schemes and see how many of them can be configured in a common manner without losing any comfort.

Resident Evil and any gun games would be right out, don't fit the theme.

[KenToad]

I guess you're right, Chad, that a lot of FPS games have some unique functions and that would make your idea of a perfect layout a lot more difficult if not impossible to plan. 

Now that you mention it, the Thief games wouldn't work well anyway on a standardized kind of layout, since there is creep, walk and then run, so three different speeds of forward motion, not to mention tons of items to cycle through and ducking while creeping.  It's awkward enough on a keyboard, can't even imagine it with a flight stick or arcade buttons for directional controls. 

[SithMaster]

Well i like the idea of a bartop (better than my original idea for an upright) so my doom cab is going to be easier to carry in case of lan games.

but yeah like the pic tok posted using buttons for movement is better i think since you wont have to move a joystick and its more responsive like a keyboard.  which i think is important if you know a demon is gnawing on your face.

wait why resident evil?  they are horror and there is only one light gun game for it but i dont think the poster meant that one just the normal 3rd person view.

[ChadTower]

Well my purpose here isn't really to build a versatile cab.  The motivation is to build a tight cab for playing Killing time.  I'll throw in other games that use a similar control scheme to take advantage of the hardware, but anything that causes me to deviate from what is best for Killing Time gets DQed.

[KenToad]

Well, actually, now that I've thought about it some more, I don't think it would be a problem to have quite a buttons for multiple functions around.  You would just need to make sure that buttons that need to be pressed together are close enough for your hands to comfortably reach.  Obviously, this would mean fire, jump, and crouch, like in the layout TOK posted and also with an open door and a secondary fire button.  Otherwise, the other buttons could be a little distance away, so you could leave the "home" hand position to do things like weapon and item cycling.

*edit* just read your latest post and that's funny that you're fixated on Killing Time.  I'll have to Google for that, since I've never even heard of that game.

[ChadTower]

*edit* just read your latest post and that's funny that you're fixated on Killing Time.  I'll have to Google for that, since I've never even heard of that game.

Yep... I've never been a big PC gamer nor FPS gamer... but I do love horror games and evil clowns.  You just can't beat rushing through a house, blowing evil clowns away with a shotgun. 

[SithMaster]

I just checked a quick summary of the game (never heard of killing time before) and saw some screenshots.  For controls i would say the trackball for looking, and 4 buttons for movement (forwar, backpedla, and strafing).  The only thing im not sure about in your situation is if you can look up and down (released in 96 so there might be not sure).  Also for weapons i would have a button for each one you can pickup instead of two buttons to cycle through.  It would make for an easier time in game and the cpo would look nice with pics above the buttons or something similar.

But since your mainly about this game id forget about the other stuff (cept doom unless you want something more dedicated) and stick with stuff from this time period.  have you thought of serious sam and the duke nukem series?

but if killing time has a decent multiplayer work in a ethernet port.  i was thinking of doing that for a doom cab (full upright no less) but id make more sense for yours since its much smaller and easier to move around next to a pc that is also running it.

i just found the controls are these right? W = Walk Forward, S = Walk Backward, A = Strafe Left, D = Strafe Right, R = Next Weapon, Spacebar = Use/Open, Mouse Button 1 = Fire Weapon, Use the mouse to navigate and turn with.

Yep... I've never been a big PC gamer nor FPS gamer... but I do love horror games and evil clowns.  You just can't beat rushing through a house, blowing evil clowns away with a shotgun.

and they just keep coming out of the little cars.  the horde...

[ChadTower]

I honestly don't remember the specific key configs, I haven't played it in quite some time.  I'm going to have to build a Win98 box to install this on.  I have an older machine sitting around the basement that should work pretty well for that.

I also don't remember any multiplayer at all but that's not a requirement for me.  I think the last time I played a LAN FPS was 1997.

[Grasshopper]

American McGee's Alice is a fun game, although more about puzzle solving than pure FPS.

[ChadTower]

Ooh.  I like it.  The main initial drawback is that it really jumps the system specs up from every other game mentioned.

[leapinlew]

What about:

Rise of the Triad

It was so bad, it was a horror

[spacies]

I use a z-board for gaming.

www.zboard.com

I like it. If I were to build a machine for FPS it would be based on the zboard layout.

[ChadTower]

Interesting.  I definitely want to try a joystick for movement, though.

I have a line on some prototype Killing Time artwork that will just put this thing way over the top.

[spacies]

Chad,


How about 2 flight sim sticks with small buttons down the inside of the handles for your thumbs to push?
You would have the trigger buttons for aim/shoot just like a PS/Xbox pad.

Could work out quite well with a bit of thought.

 

[ChadTower]

That's what I'm envisioning for the movement, but are you saying a second stick for the vision control?

[spacies]

Yip,

2 sticks.

1 for  movement and one for vision with some small buttons on the inside for changing weapons, crouching, going prone, reload, use, blah blah blah.

With some thought on the button layout I think it would be a slick setup.

[spacies]

And you would fell like one of those guys in the final Matrix movie shooting ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- with big ass machine guns.

 

[Dervacumen]

Mouse look in PC FPS's can be done with a small trackball on the right hand, and transfer the mouse buttons to a 2 button trigger stick on the left hand.

You get WSAD, primary and secondary fire on the right stick, and directional view control on the spinner/trackball.

I've been wanting to do an FPS game for a long time but this possible answer to the mouse/keyboard layout just occurred.

You could use smaller square pushbuttons laid in a nice location near the trackball to enable other functions like flashlights, grenades, or whatever you want.

[theCoder]

I think I'd go with a trackball, two mouse buttons above that, and a 10 key pad.  I used to play a killer game of doom with this combination.

[btp2k2]

I run Duke Nukem 3D on my cabinet using MagStiks and it works great.

With a 8 button setup, there isn't much stuff you can't do.

[JamIt]

I think I'd go with a trackball, two mouse buttons above that, and a 10 key pad.  I used to play a killer game of doom with this combination.

Interesting... Did you then use your thumb to navigate the trackball?  I would have envisioned the mouse buttons being optimal towards the lower left.  I bet this gets driven by how "high" the control panel is when you are playing.

Chad, great idea on a bartop.  Multiplayer comes to mind.  Also, I know this is non-traditional, but how about voice recognition software?  I can see this as kinda cool for switching guns.

[patrickl]

I always wondered if you could use your feet in an FPS. Like with a gas pedal for moving forwards.

[ChadTower]

Mouse look in PC FPS's can be done with a small trackball on the right hand, and transfer the mouse buttons to a 2 button trigger stick on the left hand.

That's exactly what I've been saying all along.

[Dervacumen]

Yep.  I don't see any other good solution.  Having two push buttons above the trackball would be difficult.  How do you move the palm of your hand around on the mouse and keep your fingers positioned over the buttons?  I think you're right in moving the buttons to the joystick.

[btp2k2]

You know, along these same lines....I don't see why a RTS bartop or cocktail wouldn't work....with a trackball working as the mouse...you might have to wire up an ipac or something also so you could use the extra buttons as hot keys....but it could work...

[ChadTower]

I think it would be easier than an FPS cab.  You'd have to focus on a good quality trackball more than anything else.

[btp2k2]

Yeah, I think FPS would be easier too....but it does certainly open possibilities.....I am putting Madden 07 on my Seahawks cab....I might even put in NBA Live and some other sports games as well...Winning 11 maybe....As most PC games use either a keyboard and or mouse, there really isn't much you can't do with that combo

[GoPodular.com]

I always wondered if you could use your feet in an FPS. Like with a gas pedal for moving forwards.

Yes, Half-Life 2 Survivor does.  I don't know if it was ever released in the US or not?  It uses dual joys and foot controls.  Both sit-down and upright models.

http://hl2survivor.net/  <- in Japanese.

"It shoots with the cancer/gun type right stick, 360 degrees moves the 3D space freely with the left stick! It jumps with the pedal the right! With pedal the left squatting! Operation and 32 inch wide monitor and 5.1 ch サラウンド where you think thoroughly in the one for arcade and are proven, depend on the input device of the new design, used the entire body, offer large force and the appearance impression, retreat increase you to the unknown world!"

[clanggedin]

You need to add Phantasmagoria to your game list.

[btp2k2]

I always wondered if you could use your feet in an FPS. Like with a gas pedal for moving forwards.

Yes, Half-Life 2 Survivor does.  I don't know if it was ever released in the US or not?  It uses dual joys and foot controls.  Both sit-down and upright models.

http://hl2survivor.net/  <- in Japanese.

"It shoots with the cancer/gun type right stick, 360 degrees moves the 3D space freely with the left stick! It jumps with the pedal the right! With pedal the left squatting! Operation and 32 inch wide monitor and 5.1 ch サラウンド where you think thoroughly in the one for arcade and are proven, depend on the input device of the new design, used the entire body, offer large force and the appearance impression, retreat increase you to the unknown world!"

I love engrish

[leapinlew]

I love engrish

Oops! You're racist!

[patrickl]

I don't get the connection to racism or anything in that linked piece of text. BTW do you know what Engrish is?

[ChadTower]

You need to add Phantasmagoria to your game list.

Interesting game from the description.  I can't find anything yet that describes the control scheme.  That will be the biggest factor for this game as it's not an FPS.  If it causes anything other than a very minor change in CP design it can't go in.

[shardian]

This thing ain't built yet? What a slacker.

[ChadTower]

I have to bump down a substantial honeydo list before starting... so it's only in design for now.   

I'm going to probably make templates for it as well so I can build 3-4 bartops over the summer.  I'm also thinking of bartops for a Dreamcast and I'm still waffling on the others.

[leapinlew]

I played Phantasmagoria...

what a pain in the butt. It's like 9 cd's long. Somewhere around CD 6 - you have to choose all the right options and swap discs like 3 times. If you make a mistake - you go back to CD6.

As a bonus - nudity!

[ChadTower]

Yeah, Wikipedia says it is 7 CDs.  All of the games on this cab will run off the HD so I'd have to find a way to make that work as well.  Fortunately drive space is cheap.

[bfauska]

Any games that require CDs can be ripped to ISO and made to look like they are in a drive by using daemon tools to mount the file.  I don't remember exactly what all it involves, but I did it with some DVDs at one point and you can make the process invisible by using command line.  Here is the daemon tools site

The easiest way to make jigs for me, is to just make the original and use it to flush trim another piece to match.  It only takes about a couple minutes more than just making 1.  After you make the first copy set it aside to be the jig and assemble the first cabinet.

[ChadTower]

Any games that require CDs can be ripped to ISO and made to look like they are in a drive by using daemon tools to mount the file.  I don't remember exactly what all it involves, but I did it with some DVDs at one point and you can make the process invisible by using command line.  Here is the daemon tools site

I'll look at that, thanks.  I figured I'd have to do something like that since most of these games require the CDs.  The challenge may lie in the games that have multiple CDs and you have to swap them out during gameplay.

The easiest way to make jigs for me, is to just make the original and use it to flush trim another piece to match.  It only takes about a couple minutes more than just making 1.  After you make the first copy set it aside to be the jig and assemble the first cabinet.

Yep, that's the plan.  I may make the template out of something thinner just for easier storage.

[bfauska]

Some of the multi-disk games may allow you to put the disks into several "drives" if that is the case you can mount them all with Daemon tools when you start the game and then select the next drive when it's time to change disks.

[ChadTower]

Yep, though not sure if the game will know, since it will expect the new disc to be in the same drive as the previous one.

[leapinlew]

I'll look at that, thanks.  I figured I'd have to do something like that since most of these games require the CDs.  The challenge may lie in the games that have multiple CDs and you have to swap them out during gameplay.

I agree with you... having it swap out cd's during gameplay would be the part I anticipate will be difficult.

My dad had a quad cd reader. Silent Steel was this submarine game that had 4 discs. I tried loading all 4 discs in but the game didn't like it. It wanted all the discs to be in the same drive the game was installed from. 

[bfauska]

I bet you could set up some sort of shortcut key that would launch a batch file to switch which iso is mounted.  I don't know what the process would take but it seems like a path worth exploring.

[ChadTower]

Ack.  So when the game prompts for a swap, launch the batch file, which swaps the mounted ISO... not sure I see a way to make the game process, which is probably waiting on an OS eject event, to see that it happened.  Plus that's about as cab friendly as water.

[btp2k2]

Alcohol 120% is a good option too....

The trouble with making a ISO and storing it on the HD is not only do you have the game installed, but you also have a virtual CD on your HD too. What I would do is install the games, then go to gamecopyworld.com and find yourself some NO CD patches.

[Dervacumen]

I have to bump down a substantial honeydo list before starting

Seven years later when he has the itch... :laugh2:JK

[ChadTower]

 

Most of our waiting period was for the free cash... and less so for the skills.  Now they seem to be aligning.  The wife expects the payoff to the waiting.   

[ChadTower]

I'm poking through various bartop plans to get a feel for depth requirements for the monitor.  I'm torn on whether or not to use a CRT or LCD... obviously, LCD costs more, but gives a lot more flexibility.  CRT costs almost nothing but really takes up most of the space.

I have to get some measurements on average depth of a 15" and a 17" CRT as well as good deal cost on LCDs of those same sizes.

In the meantime, I just sent an order for a 3" Betson Imperial trackball (from BST).  I'm considering using the upgrade and lighting kids from GGG to give it a deep red glow to go with blood red T Molding.

I have a NOS Satan's Hollow joystick housing that just screams to be illuminated for this project.  It doesn't have a thumb buttonhole, though, and I'm not sure I want to mod it.

The guy who won the Killing Time proto artwork on ebay says it never arrived.  I had been pissed that I forgot to bid but now maybe it is best that way since thus far he's beed ripped off.

I also picked up a Porter Cable 893 router so I can make a template kit and produce a few of these bartops with varying themes (plus a billion other projects you can do with a router).

[ChadTower]

Now that I think about it, maybe I won't have to mod the SH stick casing... the modern stick it still works with I think may have a thumb button.  I'll keep looking into that.

Plus, there is this.


EDIT:  some searching on RGVAC points to this as the stick that fits that casing.  Ouch on cost, maybe I can find one used.

[vrf]

I'm sitting in front of a 17" Viewsonic E70f CRT. Goes 17" deep if you give a little breathing room for the cords.

I'd use an LCD. Bartop cab + being able to easily carry it to another bar = awesome.

Two pages deep, this project needs some concept sketches. Get doodling! 

[ChadTower]

I'm not much of a doodler, but thus far, the shape of the cab is still dependent on the monitor decision.  I put out a WANTED to my Freecycle list for a 15" and a 17" monitor... I shouldn't have trouble getting them as that's a common Freecycle item.  Worst case, my son has a 15" on his PC, and I can yoink that to take measurements.

I'm heavily leaning CRT.  Cost of controls is adding up and FPS games have very high screen rate requirements.  The average CRT can do far better than the cost effective LCD in this situation.

[ChadTower]

Whoa.  It may be 15" CRT just because of how easy they are to get.  I put out a Freecycle request and within 10 minutes had been offered 6 15" monitors from 3 different people.  Since I hope to build a couple different bartops from the same design, this could be the decision maker.

[leapinlew]

I hear ya...

The availability of 17" CRT's has made me decide to use 17's for my bartops. The kicker is - in about 3 years we'll be looking very hard for CRT tubes.

[ChadTower]

Holy crap, the offers are still pouring in and it's only been an hour.  I have some people with 5-6 they want me to take. 

Anyone in MA/RI area need PC monitors?     

[Kaytrim]

There has been two 21" monitors offered this week alone on my local Freecycle.  I was too late on both of them.  I am gong to have to put out a request for one if I want one that size for my standing cab.

Holy crap, the offers are still pouring in and it's only been an hour.  I have some people with 5-6 they want me to take. 

Anyone in MA/RI area need PC monitors?     

Put out a request for old computers PIII or better and you can build tones of bartop cabs for sale. 

TTFN
Kaytrim

[ChadTower]

Computers themselves tend to be more useful longer and I prefer to leave the free ones, unless I have specific need, to people who need one but can't afford one.  I don't actually need a PC yet as I have a 600mhz range machine sitting here that I can use for my testing right now, and if it fits form factor, for this particular cab.

[rovingmind]

Then after testing you can order a nanoitx mb 

nano-itx and lcd leaves you lots of space

[ChadTower]

Drives the cost way up, though, and I'm trying to limit the cost for some things so I can add other things like the better trackball and lighting for it.

[rovingmind]

yeah, i know how that goes, I keep thinking about my empty wallet and the ram-controls new yoke.

[ChadTower]

Okay, I'm testing this old PC, and I can't even get a freakin' video signal from it with two different video cards.  Clearly I'm going to need a motherboard with video and sound built in anyway so I may as well start looking on ebay at mini boards.

I don't know a ton about mini pc specs, so any advice here would be helpful. 

Micro ATX or mini ITX?  I'm thinking we don't need to go higher than 1ghz at the most.

[rovingmind]

mini-atx

http://www.mini-itx.com/

for spec and general information


I've got a late 90s millenium falcon to put one in as a future project

[leapinlew]

Consider an older laptop.

They are finally starting to show up in decent numbers with decent specs, but can still be a bit difficult to find.

[rovingmind]

Computers themselves tend to be more useful longer and I prefer to leave the free ones, unless I have specific need, to people who need one but can't afford one.  I don't actually need a PC yet as I have a 600mhz range machine sitting here that I can use for my testing right now, and if it fits form factor, for this particular cab.

you could take the free ones sift through the pieces put together a couple and donate the ones you don't need for cabinets back into freecycle

[ChadTower]

I don't want to use a laptop screen, definitely.  If I could find a 750mhz or so laptop for cheap I'd use that but I can't see that happening.


rovingmind, that's a good idea, and there already a couple people who do that in my area.  What I can do, though, is head to the town recycling depot and keep an eye out for useful machines.  The old guy that runs it knows me and lets me take what I want.  I just wish it were a little easier to visually separate the reasonable MAME boxes from the ones that aren't any good since he doesn't let me open them, I have to take them whole just by looking at the case.

[ChadTower]

Or maybe something like this. 


I suppose it's too early to be trying to pick out a specific model, really, as I don't have the game requirements yet.

[ChadTower]

Looked up system requirements for each game... I think we can eliminate Starship Troopers right off the bat, it is too different than the rest.  Everything else we can get on a 98 box, I believe.

[rovingmind]

no, its gateway

[rovingmind]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Mini-ITX-motherboard-VIA-1GHZ-CPU-CARPC-256MB-DDR_W0QQitemZ180105199590QQihZ008QQcategoryZ44943QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

this is what i was thinking about

[ChadTower]

no, its gateway

 

[rovingmind]

no, its gateway

 

flex-atx gateway

I know a guy running a computer repair business, He has nothing but problems with those.

Gateway has some wierd deal with microsoft that makes them kinda proprietary like HP used to do with hardware around windows 3.1

[ChadTower]

So, gateway mini mobo not recommended.  Understood.

I have my finger twitching over this one.  I have not found yet the reason it's not gone.

[rovingmind]

OOOOH i'm tempted on that one myself

this is what i would get if money flowed like water
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-0GHz-VIA-C7-Jetway-Mini-ITX-CarPC-Carputer-Server_W0QQitemZ260104651173QQihZ016QQcategoryZ1244QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

So, gateway mini mobo not recommended.  Understood.

I have my finger twitching over this one.  I have not found yet the reason it's not gone.

[ChadTower]

Yeah, couldn't pass that one up.  I may need to drop more RAM on that but other than that it should work nicely.

[rovingmind]

ooh yeah, that should be a sweet bartopper when you get it done

swapping in a great big honking 1gig ram?

[ChadTower]

ooh yeah, that should be a sweet bartopper when you get it done

swapping in a great big honking 1gig ram?

No point in that... now that I look at at the first post at the requirements list, the highest remaining RAM requirement is 256mb.  So this could work.  It only supports up to 512mb anyway.

[ChadTower]

Now I need a power supply.  I'm going to be drawing a decent amount, I think.

Things drawing on PC power supply:

• Motherboard
• Trackball lighting
• Joystick lighting (if used)
• Any CP button lighting TBD
• LED controller (if used)

[Kaytrim]

Now I need a power supply.  I'm going to be drawing a decent amount, I think.

Things drawing on PC power supply:

• Motherboard
• Trackball lighting
• Joystick lighting (if used)
• Any CP button lighting TBD
• LED controller (if used)

As far as power your main draw will be the motherboard and the hard drive.  All your lights are LEDs and they draw in the milliamp range.  A 200w power supply should be plenty.

Kaytrim

[ChadTower]

That's what I was thinking, I just wanted to make sure I had everything accounted for.  More than power I need to make sure I have enough 5v and 12v lines to limit how many connectors I have to alter.

[rovingmind]

other than leds the only other thing you should have to power is the harddrive

[Kaytrim]

Don't forget the CD Drive.  I know you don't want to but you might want that accessible from the side or front of the cab.  Just in case your ISO imaging dosen't work out.

Kaytrim

[rovingmind]

slimline laptop dvd drive maybe? low profile

[ChadTower]

I'll have the whole ISO scheme worked out and tested before I finalize design on the cab, just in case.  If I have to put a CD drive in there I have 5-6 of them on a shelf here.

[ChadTower]

Picked up a 15" and a 17" today... these things are old Multisyncs, though, and they appear to be pretty deep.  Maybe I can take advantage of that and use these as deepest case scenario for the measurements.  If I make it so these fit with minimal clearance, then any newer tube would be guaranteed to fit in future builds.

[ChadTower]

The 15" is also 15" deep and you gain almost nothing by decasing it... the chassis is covered in a metal cage that is practically the same form factor as the plastic housing.

It's not immediately apparent if the cage is live or if it's just RF shielding.

If I remove the cage I can probably get it down to about 14-14.25" deep.


The 17" is roughly 17.5" deep with the very elaborate RF shielding in place.  If I remove the shielding maybe I can get it down to 16" or so.  It appears the neckboard on this one is very small but runs to a PCB that is in the 1" space behind it in the shielding.

Looking at some well formed plans, like these, it would appear that even 17.5" deep is in the acceptable range.  If I'm reading those plans right, the area from front of the tube is probably in the 18" range, and this is a big monitor.  I assume other 17" monitors would be a bit less deep.

[leapinlew]

As for your power - don't forget about wall warts. I prefer using those instead of drawing power from the computers PSU.

[ChadTower]

Don't those take up a whole lot of space inside a bartop?  Could you show an example of a good use of those? 

[leapinlew]

The sizes your talking about aren't too bad. 5volt and 12volt wall warts aren't huge. In my bartop I needed to plug in a light fixture, monitor, computer, and speakers. There was room left on the strip for a 12volt wall wart to power my LED's and fans.

While working on my showcase, I was wiring the LED's and I'm not sure what I did wrong or if it was just a coincidence but I think I shorted out the PSU. Since then, I use a dedicated power source for any external DC devices that need power.

[ChadTower]

Sounds like a great example.  Could you post a link to your project thread (if it has one)?  I'd like to study it.  Thanks!

[leapinlew]

Here is a link to my project thread:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=60017.0

I wouldn't waste too much time "studying" it. I looked through it and here is the most relevant information I could find.

In this picture you can see an incomplete bartop, but you can see the power strip. I had a few plugs open after plugging in the speakers, marquee light, computer and monitor so I plugged in a 12v wall wart and snipped off the part that plugs into the device.



I plugged those 2 wires into a small terminal block and wired my LED's and fans to the otherside of the terminal block. You can see the terminal block on the top right.


I just started doing this. I have a few previous projects that are wired directly to the computer power supply and they are still doing fine. Since I assume I blew up my previous power supply hooking it up to non-computer related things I just decided this wall wart solution worked better for me.

[ChadTower]

It's certainly not a bad idea if you have a 12v wall wart around.  Most of mine seem to be 9v but I'll have a look, I have a bin of random ones.  People show up with bags of random parts and leave them at my house. 

[ChadTower]

Found a great candidate stick here (thanks igboo) at a great price. 

Picked up a couple of DOS books off Freecycle so I don't have to bang my head against the wall forever trying to get some of these oldass games to run properly.

[rovingmind]

found this on ebay, if you wanted to use a slimline cd/dvd drive to take up as little space as possible but still have one.


edit*
removed the link.  sorry guys

[ChadTower]

Thanks, not bad... if it proves to need a CD drive, that is a good option.

[psychotech]

Just a thought..

If your cab needs a CD drive try to find a slot-in drive. Using one of those it would be almost unnoticeable..

Couldn't find a better example ... but see this link:
http://www.tradera.com/Pioneer_Slot_in_CD_36x_hastighet-auktion-41962153

Psycho.

[ChadTower]

One without a loading tray.  Another good idea if necessary.  Thanks!

[ChadTower]

Trackball has arrived, initial inspection is positive.   

[Glaine]

I would want one, but I can't imagine a better setup for FPS games than a keyboard and gaming mouse. A lot of FPS you need lots of keys to shortcut between guns (I want to push a num and get a gun, not scroll through them with the mouse wheel), use items, strafe, lots of things. And I can't get the same kind of speed and accuracy from a trackball in the ways I need it. For missile command, super - but not for Aliens V Predator 2. Nope. Apparently thats just me though.

Good for you though, if that setup works for you.
And I like that someone's doing it, plenty of newbs used to all the time ask about  the best controls for Grand Theft Auto: Vice City, but not one of them can I recall that came back latter and told us how awesome it worked out.

Just the same, this will be an interesting read.

[rovingmind]

I would want one, but I can't imagine a better setup for FPS games than a keyboard and gaming mouse. A lot of FPS you need lots of keys to shortcut between guns (I want to push a num and get a gun, not scroll through them with the mouse wheel), use items, strafe, lots of things. And I can't get the same kind of speed and accuracy from a trackball in the ways I need it. For missile command, super - but not for Aliens V Predator 2. Nope. Apparently thats just me though.

Good for you though, if that setup works for you.
And I like that someone's doing it, plenty of newbs used to all the time ask about  the best controls for Grand Theft Auto: Vice City, but not one of them can I recall that came back latter and told us how awesome it worked out.

Just the same, this will be an interesting read.

There is always the option of having a usb port out the front to plug a hub into.  I have a nostromo n50 for just such rounds of gaming and need for keys close at hand.   

I plug it in for the games that require that many keys, rest of the time it sits in a desk drawer.

[ChadTower]

It's a good point, but keep in mind I'm not designing a CP for all FPS games.  I'm limiting it to a narrow scope of specific games for just that reason.  This isn't a multipurpose cab and I won't be adding games to it once it is done. 

[rovingmind]

did you get your mobo arrive and get tested yet?

[ChadTower]

Still waiting on the mobo.  UPS says it should be here the 25th.

[KenToad]

Glad to see there is still progress here.  I'm going to try playing thief with my Kensington trackball, just to see how I like it. 

And hey, Rovingmind, why don't you shorten that link.  I have to scroll horizontally on the thread now.

[bfauska]

Rovingmad,

In case you don't know how (I know I had to research it)  you can shorten the link by putting the web address in the first "And put whatever you want the text to be right here]" box like this "[url=http://www.whateveryouarelinkingto.com]And put whatever you want the text to be right here"  it is quite handy.

[rovingmind]

sorry about that, i didn't know about the text shortening

since it was an ebay acution anyway i just removed the link

[bfauska]

Rovingmad,

No problem, it's not very obvious without research.

Now that I view this thread on my laptop it seems like psychotech's link could use some trimming too.  Now I feel like the long link police,    I am such a dick.

[psychotech]

No it wasn't me, it's the guys...

Edited the slot-in link ..but check out the 1st post on this page ...

[rovingmind]

Why not duke nukem 3d atomic?

American McGee's Alice is a great addition also.  More dark and gothic than horror but still excellent choice

[ChadTower]

Can't see a ton of gaming sites from work anymore... the Atomic edition isn't horror based, is it?

[rovingmind]

maybe a new thread should be started with just a list of "horror" and "dark gothic" genre games?

I'm starting to think about building my own dedicated horror cab now.  My only problem is i would want Carnevil.  

[rovingmind]

Can't see a ton of gaming sites from work anymore... the Atomic edition isn't horror based, is it?

well if doom is considered horror, duke nukem blows away the same kinds of alien monsters, plus egg sacks and strippers.

the atomic edition gives you the map editor and loader.
 it was the last package version. 
I have it somewhere in a box at my moms house along with an extra disc of something like 200+ add on levels

[ChadTower]

I am absolutely in love with the art on Carnevil.  Never seen the cab, just pics of it, but wow.  Awesome.


I'm not really considering Doom itself to be horror, but I think there are a few custom WADs out there that are horror based. 

[rovingmind]

I played one carnevil cab a few times.  loved it. Definitely need the huge monitor.   If i had the rolls of dough i would set up to play it on a wide flatscreen.  Its on my list of want to own.

[ChadTower]

PC is here... looks reasonable, now to find a power supply to test it with.  I'm sure I have one around somewhere not in use.

[Timoe]

What does your bar top look like?

[ChadTower]

Cab plans haven't been nailed down yet.  It wouldn't do much good to design a cab without having the requirements finished.  Odds are the shape won't be anything too unusual but the details will be.

[ChadTower]

Had some time this morning.  I pulled the power supply from the PC I originally tried to test with, grabbed a 12g drive and a 50x cdrom off the shelf, and tried to power up.

Couldn't figure out at first how to make it "turn on" so I looked at how the other motherboard does it.  Momentary contact switch over two pins on the front panel header on the motherboard.  So, I grabbed the new motherboard user manual off the web, found the power button pins, and shorted them with a screwdriver.  Fired right up. 

Oddly, I guess this drive already has win98 on it.  To my surprise it already started in the OS I need.  Too bad it's Emachines branded so I'll have to re-image it.

Couldn't get the old 50x CD drive to eject the tray... grabbed an older 8x off the shelf.  This one would eject and somehow had a Win98SE disc in it.  WTF is going on here?  A little while longer and still can't get it to recognize the oldass 8x.  Pull a much, much newer drive off the shelf and this one fires right up.  Two old drives to the trash can.  The goal is to eventually not need the CD drive anyway.

Was about to re-image the drive when I had to go to work.

[ChadTower]

Proto CP planning.

The trackball is in hand.  The joystick is still en route.  I have a couple of Ultimarc controllers on hand, can't remember which right now, so that will determine which I buy going forward.


Things to be added as proto construction goes on:

Definitely:
GGG TrackBall Booster Kit

Maybe: 
GGG Electric ICE™ RGB Trackball Lighting Upgrade Kit
GGG Opti-Wiz

[rovingmind]

how did your motherboard testout? or have you had time to set-up the drive yet.

[ChadTower]

The motherboard tested great... have to re-image the drive with fresh 98se but other than that, looks really good.

[rovingmind]

great, waiting for pictures now

 

[ChadTower]

Still nothing to see, really, other than the motherboard sitting on my workbench with the various parts attached to it.

[rovingmind]

I figured, but soon you will have your optiwiz and begin sizing panels and thinking about artwork.

[ChadTower]

First, I build a proto CP so I can see how many buttons I'll need and test out the proposed control scheme.  It is possible this control scheme will suck and need serious revamping.  I don't think it will but you never know.

[ChadTower]

Just imaged the drive with clean 98SE... no USB support, though.

Found an unofficial 98se service pack... sounds good.  Trying that.

[ChadTower]

The oldass power supply is squealing when the motherboard is powered down... probably dead caps or dying inductor.  I'll keep using it to test but when time comes to put it in the cab I'll need a new one.

[theCoder]

As for your power - don't forget about wall warts. I prefer using those instead of drawing power from the computers PSU.

I used three transformers on my last project.  15 vdc for the monitor, 19 vdc for the CPU, and 12 vdc for fan, amp & led's.  I tried creating a circuit to step down a 19 vdc to 15 & 12.  It worked, but the monitor drew too much current and the thing got REALLY hot.  I'd recommend looking into it if you are concerned about space & weight and are only powering simple stuff like lights & fans.  It is documented in the PartyBox thread below in my sig.

You mentioned lighting your trackball?  You can easily do it with 3 led's, 3 resistors, and 3 strategically drilled holes in the trackball housing.

Good luck with the build.

[ChadTower]

Got USB support working and at least initially that service pack looks good.

[ChadTower]

Joystick is in... this sucker is a monster.  It may be too big and heavy duty for a bartop.  We'll see when I start making proto CPs... but goddam, I feel like if I put this on a bartop and yanked hard I could flip the cab over.

[theCoder]

Joystick is in... this sucker is a monster.  It may be too big and heavy duty for a bartop.  We'll see when I start making proto CPs... but goddam, I feel like if I put this on a bartop and yanked hard I could flip the cab over.

How big is too big?  Do you have a picture of it?

[ChadTower]

That one.

[ChadTower]

Installing mobo drivers now... using an ancient serial trackball mouse.  This mouse is awesome, it's hair sensitive, and the ball is nice.  I'll have to seriously consider using this thing as a small CP control later on.

[ChadTower]

Drivers working well.

Killing Time is installed.  The controls are more than I thought... here are the keyboard mappings grouped by how I'm initially seeing them on a CP.

Joystick directions

• Forward                       Up
• Backward                     Down
• Turn Left                      Left
• Turn Right                    Right

Trigger

• Attack                           L Cntrl

Trackball

• Look Up                         Page Up
• Look Down                    Page Down
• Side Step Left              Q
• Side Step Right            W

Buttons immediately right and left of trackball?

Two joystick thumb buttons?

• Run                               L. Shift
• Next Weapon                Delete

• Side Step On                L. Alt
• Open/Use                     Space
• Jump                             A
• Crouch                          Z
• Center View                  Home
• Automap                        Tab

[GadgetGeek]

I don't recall what encoder you are using...any chance you could shift/shazamm a couple of the functions?  Maybe sidestep on and automap?  Might save a couple buttons on the CP.
Just a thought.

[ChadTower]

Haven't chosen an encoder yet as I didn't know the layout requirements.  I need to play a bit and remember exactly what automap and sidestep on are used for in the game, maybe I can just common them or something.  I'm not familiar with the shazam or shift so I'll look that up tonight.

[Grasshopper]

As you're using a trackball, I'd say that a mini-pac would be the most economical and flexible solution.

[ChadTower]

I may already have something else... I had a project a couple years ago so there are some controllers on hand, but I don't remember for sure which.  I know there's a Jpac, a v1 AVGA, and an Ipac4... there may be an optiwiz or something else too as well as a repro tempest spinner.  I've been collecting parts for a while now waiting on the chance to make some scratch builds.

[KenToad]

Man, it all sounds great, but such a tease without any visual accompaniment.

[ChadTower]

There is nothing to see yet anyway.

[Havok]

That one.

I'm not seeing that working out well for you. You might be better off just using a U360, or perhaps four buttons to move in the directions...

[ChadTower]

That doesn't give trigger or thumb buttons, though, so going that way puts it 6 or 7 buttons, not 4.  The trigger joystick is the best way I have come up with so far to have that many distinct controls in one spot.

What I may have to compromise here, though, is finding a smaller trigger joystick.  Since this isn't a commercial cab, if the Happ stick turns out to be too big, I can find a decent 8 way PC trigger joystick to use.  That would actually be easier to interface, too.

[shardian]

I would recommend one of the older style pc joysticks like this one:
ebay link

I had one similar to this that had a small footprint and wasn't too tall or wide. I played the crap out of road rash with it.

[ChadTower]

That's like what I was thinking, though that particular one may be analog.

[KenToad]

There is nothing to see yet anyway.

I have never seen one of those Happ trigger sticks in "real life."  How about just a photo of the hardware you have assembled so far, or even just a mockup of the layouts you're considering.  I'm wondering what your trackball looks like, etc.  Anyway, it's pretty weird to have 4 pages of a project announcement without even a mockup to show for it.

So show something already. 

[ChadTower]

I'll give it a shot.  I have it laid out in my head but I'm not very good with mockups.  How do people usually demonstrate that in these threads usually?  The one thing I don't want to do is spend 2 hours making concept mockups that I could have spent on the actual machine.  This is my first scratch build so some of this is new to me.

[KenToad]

Well, there is the infamous cardboard mockup, which some people find works well and is really funny when people go overboard and try to make it playable.  What I usually do is start with a potential controls layout and consider how the artwork could be strikingly integrated into it.  But, I've never really tried anything as revolutionary as what you are attempting, so for you, I'm guessing that a test board will be very helpful for practice mounting and for actually playtesting your ideas.  Any time you spend mocking it up will certainly not be wasted, as you will get a lot of feedback from the guys on here as well as a more concrete idea of where the potential design snags lie.  As far as sharing your ideas initially, a basic sketch can make a world of difference.  I'm sure a lot of people in this thread will be willing to chime in with wanted and unwanted opinions about the WIP in your head. 

In any case, I'm looking forward to "seeing" progress.   

[ChadTower]

Oh, yeah, a proto CP will definitely be made, maybe 2-3 of them.  I didn't figure pics of a generic blank bartop cardboard cab would be all that useful.  There isn't a ton of use in trying that until I have the actual requirements worked out, though.  Requirements first, design second, build third.  That's one thing I see a lot of guys do around here that I don't necessarily agree with... they've got the thing half built and are still tweaking the design elements around.

[Havok]

What I may have to compromise here, though, is finding a smaller trigger joystick.  Since this isn't a commercial cab, if the Happ stick turns out to be too big, I can find a decent 8 way PC trigger joystick to use.  That would actually be easier to interface, too.

Just get a Tron cocktail joystick. Should be real easy to find...

 

[horseboy]

Get a Wico Command Control joystick for the Atari 2600. Easily the best topfire 8-way around. Also, it is definitely my favorite joystick to use with the 2600.

[ChadTower]

I have a whole big box of various 2600 style joysticks... some of them real leaf switch 8 ways.  Definitely a good suggestion and if I can't find a decent 8 way trigger PC joystick, that's another way to go.  That's only, of course, if the Happ stick does turn out to be too damn big.

[Havok]

That joy is too damn big for a bartop. Here's Chad, playing away on his horror bartop, scared sh*tless, yanking the crap out of that joy. I give you a day before you flip the thing onto the floor. Perhaps you can bolt it to the table?

[ChadTower]

Then I may have to bolt the table to the slab.

[rovingmind]

cripes, next thing you know he'll get really excited and his house will be upside down.

[ChadTower]

Holy ---fudgesicle--- I found my sideart... this is a pic from when we took the kids minigolfing at a local place called Monster Minigolf... I can't use this pic, but goddam, I'm going back to get a clear hi-res pic of this thing for the cab.

[rovingmind]

Holy ---fudgesicle--- I found my sideart... this is a pic from when we took the kids minigolfing at a local place called Monster Minigolf... I can't use this pic, but goddam, I'm going back to get a clear hi-res pic of this thing for the cab.

heh heh gotta love the evil clowns

[theCoder]

Ah, such a pleasant theme.  Let's invite grandma over for milk, cookies, and a quick game of CarnEvil.

[ChadTower]

Not much to say of late, picked up a new power supply ($7 after rebate), removed the CD drive since I'm loading everything on via thumb drive.

[rovingmind]

yes but progress is progress.  :|

[Stobe]

Ah, such a pleasant theme.  Let's invite grandma over for milk, cookies, and a quick game of CarnEvil.

I thought her favorite game was Chiller??

-Stobe

[ChadTower]

So, I was going through my Box Of Ancient Controllers (AKA crap I've accumulated) and found one of these.  This pic isn't mine, I yoinked it from an Ebay auction, but it's the same stick.  It's an old analog PC joystick, built pretty well, but the key is the number of buttons.  It's a trigger stick (on the other side) and there is also a button near the bottom of the trigger side.  I haven't checked yet to see how many of these are wired in parallel.  Even so, it might be possible to attach this to an 8 way base of some sort...

[KenToad]

Congrats on pics and good thinking ripping the latest from an auction.  I wouldn't use that stick, though, looks a little ... too ... phallic ... not that there's anything wrong with that.   

[barnes]

My game suggestions to you:

Alice is my favorite game of all time. Make sure its on there.

Look at the modding community. I've played the scariest games of my life from home made mods for commercial games.
-Afraid Of Monsters (HL1 Mod)
-Killing Floor (UT2004 Mod Online only though...)
-Hidden Source (HL2 Mod. By far scariest game.)
-No More Room In Hell (HL2 Mod..not finished)

Also, another new one is Penumbra. Its a strange new type of FPS, cool physics. Check that one out.

Good luck though, looks like it will be really cool!

[ChadTower]

   It's not quite so phallic in person.  I think it's the angle.

[shardian]

Hey man, this is a horror based cabinet. What would be more horrifying that having to use a phallic joystick to control your character.

[Grasshopper]

Alice is my favorite game of all time. Make sure its on there.

Alice is indeed a very good game. It would also be a good game to base the artwork around. That cat gives me the creeps.

[superbigjay]

Ah, such a pleasant theme.  Let's invite grandma over for milk, cookies, and a quick game of CarnEvil.

...I wouldn't use that stick, though, looks a little ... too ... phallic ... not that there's anything wrong with that...

Now it's really time to invite grandma! 
Jay

[ChadTower]

Alice does fit the specs of the machine, so I'll give it a whirl.

Status as of now is that the PC joystick isn't working so I'm repairing that.  If it takes too much more effort I'm going to just scrap it and build a proto panel with the Happ stick to see how it works.

[rovingmind]

if the controller buttons are wired in parrallel you could always re-wire it (provided you could enough small wire to fit through the shaft. 

I have an older saitek cyborg joystick plug version i've saved that i keep thinking about hacking onto a flight panel for afterburner,  it plays pretty sweet although it doesn't have the built in rumble motor.

I havn't decided which way to go for a controller though.  I'd rewire it so the hat-switches register as individual buttons, instead of combinations of the other 4

[ChadTower]

if the controller buttons are wired in parrallel you could always re-wire it (provided you could enough small wire to fit through the shaft. 

I think you could do it even if they're not.  It's only a few small microswitches and they do each have their own switch.  I don't see any kind of encoder chip inside, it's just wired to a small PCB with resistors on it.  It would be a much smaller challenge than finding a way to make the stick 8 way, though since it does work with the joystick port of a sound card, maybe analog would be enough.  I'll play with it once I get the stick fixed.  Also have to make sure this mini-mobo has that joystick port on it.

[Kaytrim]

Chad,

Looking at the thought process you have been going through and seing the StarCraft 2 is in the works has given me an idea.  I'd have to put some thinking on this but how about a war strategy bartop.  Games like the Red Alert series, StarCraft and WarCraft would be great to play on a larger screen.  Could you send me the information you found on loading the CDs into memory or what ever you are doing to remove the CD drive? 

Email or PM would be fine, Thanks,
Kaytrim

[rovingmind]

i picked up a disc at a yardsale, i havn't looked at it yet but if you want it i'll mail you a copy. 

The title is HELL A Cyberpunk Thriller

wiki link

interactive story/game from 1994  Dennis Hopper does one of the voices.

[ChadTower]

Kaytrim, I haven't gotten that far yet, so far I'm working on the control scheme.  It turned out that Killing Time doesn't need the CD to run so I haven't worried about the other games to this point.  When I do I'll lay the info out here.  A C+C type bartop would be pretty cool if you could get a trackball down to the very very fine control you need for an RTS.  I'm not sure how you would end up with a larger screen in a bartop, though.  The biggest you could possibly go would be 19" and that's with a costly LCD.

[Kaytrim]

CRTs are much cheaper and I now know how to decase and mount them.    I am still in the thinking about thinking about it so no big rush at this point.  Besides I still have two projects to finish and another in the planing stage.  I am also concidering getting into the custom CP business.

Work in progress...
   Dad's Bartop
   FrankenMAME

Planing Stage
   Kaytrim's Casino
   Kaytrim's Custom CPs

TTFN
Kaytrim

[ChadTower]

Not a ton to report at the moment.  Got the joystick back nicely together and repaired, have to find the drivers for it next.  If this one works out I'll locate a newer version with the same button scheme, this one has seen better days.  The motherboard does have a joystick port, turns out.

Not much to see yet but this is where I am.

[ChadTower]

Joystick wasn't working at all... figured it was a driver issue since I hadn't installed any.  On a web search found this:

You dont need a driver for this one. Just go to start; settings; control panel; joysticks. Configure a joystick using 2 axis and 4 button. Calibrate it, then use it!

Did that, seems to be working okay now.  I can definitely see where an analog stick may cause an issue in gameplay on FPS... we'll see.

[ChadTower]

Okay, turns out as wired, this stick has four button lines.

1 - trigger
2 - either of the inner thumb buttons
3 - either of the outer thumb buttons
4 - a small button, trigger side of the stick near bottom where your pinky goes

[ChadTower]

Joystick directions

• Forward                       Up
• Backward                     Down
• Turn Left                      Left
• Turn Right                    Right

These seem to be working, but they work a hell of a lot better with the keyboard than with this analog stick.  Probably would work better with a digital stick, I'll have to slap a gamepad on there to test that theory.

Trigger

• Attack                           L Cntrl

Done, works, yay.

Trackball

• Look Up                         Page Up
• Look Down                    Page Down
• Side Step Left              Q
• Side Step Right            W

Not so good... it appears as though Killing Time doesn't have mouselooking.  In fact, it appears as though any control has to be configured via a keypress (or, with the stick, directions mapped to arrows).  This could be a real problem.

[Kaytrim]

A quick Google for Mouse2Key returned this link.   I don't know if this will work for your needs but it might be worth a try.

TTFN
Kaytrim

[ChadTower]

Interesting... I'll have a look in depth.  Thanks!  This is exactly why we have these project threads.

[rovingmind]

WIP update?

[leapinlew]

Interesting... I'll have a look in depth.  Thanks!  This is exactly why we have these project threads.

No, we have these threads so people can post a project announcement. This is pie in the sky till you cut a piece of wood.

[ChadTower]

Fair enough.  I've been consumed with the kids' baseball season and honeydo items lately.

[leapinlew]

Fair enough.  I've been consumed with the kids' baseball season and honeydo items lately.

Your lack of clever response infuriates me

[ChadTower]

Would it help if I said I have the MDF sheets but have never built a cab before... so I have to get some practice in before I give it a shot?  I may build the sawboard Drew talked about over the weekend to get a feel for cutting MDF.

[leapinlew]

Would it help if I said I have the MDF sheets but have never built a cab before... so I have to get some practice in before I give it a shot?  I may build the sawboard Drew talked about over the weekend to get a feel for cutting MDF.

First the jab: How did you get the MDF home? 

Second the serious and more sensitive side of Lew- make sure you wear a mask and protect yourself from the MDF dust. I wear a mask and cut outside.
<80's sitcom audience> - "AWWWWWWWWW"

[ChadTower]

First the jab: How did you get the MDF home? 

I hired pinballjim to haul it for me and then stiffed him on the payment.  He spilled the water and that wasn't part of the deal.  Plus he stole Sloth's Baby Ruth and it took Chunk 45 minutes to calm him down.

Second the serious and more sensitive side of Lew- make sure you wear a mask and protect yourself from the MDF dust. I wear a mask and cut outside.
<80's sitcom audience> - "AWWWWWWWWW"

Yep, I cut everything outside anyway, on sawhorses/picnic table.  No indoor place for me to cut.  I'm probably going to build 2 of them at once - one for this, one for a Dreamcast, which will be a different project in the near future.

[rovingmind]

you can come over to my house and practice by making shop cabinets.  I need alot of those.

  

[ChadTower]

Aren't you the same guy that wanted me to come over and build a loft in your shed too?

[rovingmind]

nope, i have an insulated polebarn...... 1008 sq ft and as soon as the house stuff gets sorted out i get to set up the shop portion.

If you want to come over and build a shed to put a loft in though i could use another
and then theres the tiki bar thats going under the overhang off the back of the shop. 

[ChadTower]

Time to build the cab... to that end, made a 4' sawboard today.  I'm waiting on the glue drying so I can finish it up next weekend.

[leapinlew]

Time to build the cab... to that end, made a 4' sawboard today.  I'm waiting on the glue drying so I can finish it up next weekend.

 

Got a shape in mind? My last bartop I built a little bigger than I thought I needed. Turned out to be good things

[ChadTower]

I'm thinking I'll base it on this one, probably altering the side profile to make it match the theme a little more.  Suggestions on that are definitely welcome as I don't have a clear shape in mind yet.

[leapinlew]

 

[TOK]

Maybe the glue is still drying.

[Malenko]

still loadin MDF I reakon`

[Barry Barcrest]

To be fair it is hard to find time for new projects when you already have so many projects going on, especially restorations.

[Santoro]

 

[ChadTower]

 

Hadn't seen this until now.  This never really got past the prototype phase.  I built a system for it and had a proto CP to play with some layouts.  I forget exactly why it got pushed aside.  Life probably got in the way and Barry is probably right about projects.  I have a habit of bringing project games in before I'm done with what's already on my plate.   

[leapinlew]

7 years later, I'm sure this is done by now.

[rovingmind]

well then, if its done PICS PICS PICS