Front USB issue on newly built computer

[acevedor2]

I built the computer a few weeks ago, but to be truthful, never tested the front USB ports until this week.  They work sporadically.  I know the OS is installed correctly and the computer runs great - except for the front USB ports.  The rear usb ports are working fine. 

What do I mean by sporadically?  Well, sometimes when I plug a USB item in it recognizes it and other times it doesn't.  Sometimes it tells me the "USB device installed has malfunctioned, please try again and if the problme persists get a new USB device"  or something along those lines.

1.  The rear USB ports work fine - all the time.
2.  The motherboard has been updated to the latest BIOS version.
3.  I even installed the pc into a different case with different front USBs just on the off change the USB ports on the other case were bad(shorted). 
4.  The USB devices (external hard drives and thumb drives) that I am plugging in, work fine in my other 4 computers, just not this one. 
5.  I have tried both front USB headers on the MB.  Same result, some times it works, sometimes it doesn't.

I get a feeling I have a bad motherboard - at least the headers.  Thoughts?  I can't see how it would be the OS or other hardware (RAM, CPU, etc.).

Thanks as always for the help.
Cheers!

[BobA]

Sounds like you have eliminated everything but your motherboard by changing the case and making sure the devices work on other pcs.   Maybe a cold solder joint on the USB pins.  If it never worked I might suspect some software but the intermittant actions sure looks like a bad solder joint.

[newbee]

 What operating system are you using, and version?

[leapinlew]

I had a motherboard that required drivers for the front USB drivers to work and the ones on the rear worked fine.

[acevedor2]

Running WinXp and as far as I can tell all drivers have ben loaded.  I loaded them myself off of the MB CD.  I might try uninstalling all of the USB devices (hardware manager), restarting the PC and letting it find everything again.  If the fronts required a separate driver I would have thought that under device manager I would see an exclamation point.

[leapinlew]

Running WinXp and as far as I can tell all drivers have ben loaded.  I loaded them myself off of the MB CD.  I might try uninstalling all of the USB devices (hardware manager), restarting the PC and letting it find everything again.  If the fronts required a separate driver I would have thought that under device manager I would see an exclamation point.

I would think so to (mine did).

[grundle]

Are they USB 2.0?  Reason I ask is that if you're running ribbon cables from your motherboard to the front USB port, a ribbon cable will probably pick up too much noise for  USB 2.0 to work reliably.

You need shielded twisted pairs to work well.  That being said, when I plug my Treo into my front usb ports, it tells me it's unrecognized about 1 out of 5 times.  This is on my work computer (a Compaq workstation), so it should be properly designed in terms of cabling.  Maybe we have too high standards.

[acevedor2]

I am using the wires from the case (hard wired tot he front ports, directly to the header on the motherboard.  They are USB 2.0.  This is much worse as far as reliability, those ports often won't work at all.  What is more strange is that the left front usv port works fairly well 95% of the time, it is just the right one that gives me most of the problem.  It was the same way on the other case which is why i am thinking it is a USB header problem on the MB. 

[SavannahLion]

Doesn't the specification call for proper shielding around USB cables, even if it's an internal cable?

[acevedor2]

To be honest, I have built about 20 computers in my life, at least a dozen of them had front USB ports.  The only cables being used are the cables provided by the case manufacturer that are attached already to the case from the factory.  All you have to do is plug them into the USB header on the MB.  Whether they are shielded or not I couldn't tell you, but I what I am pretty positive that you don't have to do anything else special to them before you connect them.

[SavannahLion]

If you really wanted to be honest, I've built more than... I guess I lost count... a bit more than five hundred. And I know people that have been building and have built the old Big Irons. Most are business machines though, so no front USB ports Pretty boring after you build the first 100 or so.

The point I was trying to make is that some manufacturers like to cut corners. If leaving off the shielding jacket around the cable saves a few extra pennies, some of them will do it if they think they can get away with it. In my experience, case manufacturers are no different than anyone else when it comes to cutting corners. Some do it, some don't.

That said. It might be a little more helpful if you mentioned what model motherboard you're using.

[Fozzy The Bear]

Guys..... There is of course a simple answer to all of this.... It's obvious that this is a MOBO Fault.

Either send the MOBO back for a replacement, or: Go buy a small USB HUB total cost $3 or $4 or something like that.... Stick it in one of the back sockets that work... Put it at the front, put it at the side, put it on top, stick it to the ceiling, shove it under the desk, put it wherever you want it.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)   

[acevedor2]

Thanks Fozzy.  That's what I thought but before I went through the hassle of doing that I wanted a second opinion.  Now that I have it I will do just that - probably return MB for exchange.  Thanks again and cheers!

[acevedor2]

Ok, the MB was not the problem, I am about ready to pull my hair out.  I have tried another computer and different External Hard Drives/Thumb Drives.  All work GREAT when I plug them into the rear USB ports on the MB.  When I plug them into the front, I get problems.  Problems include:

1.  Computer locks up
2.  I get the blue screen saying beginning physical dump of memory
3.  Won't recognize the drive

Again, I am running winxp pro and have reloaded with fresh complete formats multiple times!  I have tried it on 2 different computers with 2 different motherboards, etc.  Here is one commonality though.  It will only give me problems when I use an External hard Drive or Thumb Drive plugged into thefront USBs that has built in software.  Good example is that I have a Western Digital 120GB external hard drive that has its own Western digital sync software on it.  Plugged into the back ports it works perfectly.  Plugged into the front and I get the problems described above.  Same thing goes for my Thumb drive (cruzer mini) that has the U3 software on it. 

Both of those, however, I can plug into my mac or my laptops and have zero problems with them!  I have been building computers for a long time and I have NEVER experienced problems such as these.  Anyone got any ideas???

[quick2shoot]

  Have you checked to make sure that the pinouts match, the reason I ask is I encountered a couple of boards whose USB connection block pins did not match the connector block on the USB socket,  it caused all sorts of havoc until I switched around the wires in the molex connector, then all was fine, if your pinouts are correct then I would imagine it most likely a problem with the ports themselves.

[acevedor2]

I checked that but also, it's impossible to screw up, the connectors are not separate.  It is a single connector for the 4 wires.  And again, remeber that it is happening with at least two other computers.  With different MB.s and headers AND 2 different cases!  I am almost thinking now that it is a USB port power issue.  I have a powered External Hard Drive Enclosure (MadDog) and it works fine attached to the front ports.  I also have a standard 256 MB thumb drive with no software peloaded, and it works fine. 

[Tiger-Heli]

It is possible to screw up - the 4 wires can be in the wrong order even though they are in a single connector.  Can't imagine it being screwed up on two cases with different mobos and headers and working for some devices and not others.

Shot in the darK - I've had WinXP crash with a thumbdrive plugged in and not be able to find the IDE HD.  You might try disabling "Boot From USB" in the BIOS.

Also, there might be a BIOS settings for whether the ports are on all the time or not - +5V or Standby - although that shouldn't matter either.

Often the front ports are on a different bridge chip, so that might accont for it, but probably not on two different PC's.   

[acevedor2]

That's exactly my issue, different mobos, different pc's and same issue.  I am really stumped.  Ill take a look at the bios, but not sure if that will do the trick.

[Kremmit]

Look here:  http://www.directron.com/installusb.html

There are two different wiring standards for internal USB headers shown.  There might be more out there.  IF that's your problem, it's entirely possible that both cases are mismatched to the headers on your mobo.  The mobo's manual ought to have a wiring diagram showing the pinout of the headers.

If that's NOT the problem-  Did you get the exact same model of mobo to replace the first one?  Perhaps your problem is simply that the controller for the front USB on that specific model of mobo doesn't work quite right with certain hardware.  You might check the manufacturer page or Google looking for that.  There might be a BIOS update that addresses it.  Or you might just need a different model of mobo.

[tommy]

This happend to me when i built my PC, the custom case was not made well and connecting anything other than from the mobo itself was kinda worthless.

Also, maybe your bios is set to not keep the settings from anything other than connections directly coming from the "main" USB ports. Might be worth a bios check.

[shorthair]

I have something similar, though not so harrowing, going on with my new comp I had built for me: all the usb ports work fine - they recognise any mice/keyboard/controllers.  Then I connect my external drive.  Only one port will recognise that sucker.

[Fozzy The Bear]

I have something similar, though not so harrowing, going on with my new comp I had built for me: all the usb ports work fine - they recognise any mice/keyboard/controllers.  Then I connect my external drive.  Only one port will recognise that sucker.

I'll revise what I said earlier...... I've now experienced this problem myself. It seems that some Hard Drives are very sensitive to being pluged into anything except the master sockets (1 and 2). In fact so much so that I've seen recommendations from the manufacturers that, under no circumstances should you use a hub. Effectively, that's what you're doing when you plug into the front sockets.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[acevedor2]

Thanks Guys I appreciate the help.  I thought it was just me going crazt.  I am going to double check the pin out with the manual just in case but I have checked the bios and all is well there and this was 2 different mobos.  Thanks again.

[grundle]

I still think it's a cable noise issue.  If the pinout was wrong, would it EVER work?  He's changed motherboards, usb devices, etc.  Everything except for the case and the front USB cables.

[shorthair]

In a similar vein to Fozzy's response, my local computer dude thinks at least my issue is due to low voltage on those ports.  I've never had any issue with anything on my Dell, though, regadless of front or rear ports.....go figure.

[acevedor2]

I still think it's a cable noise issue.  If the pinout was wrong, would it EVER work?  He's changed motherboards, usb devices, etc.  Everything except for the case and the front USB cables.

I have changed the case (and subsequently the cables) same issue.

[shorthair]

Hey, I just had this same 'device not recognised' issue all of a sudden on my old Dell with a usb cable to my camera.  I happened to have a usb wireless keyboard/mouse combo connected to the port next to it - they're both on the front bus - and I thought, hmmmmm....so I disconnected that wireless unit, and voila! - now it recognises the camera.  The keyboard still works, but I have to plug it in after the camera.  Maybe one of your peripherals is ginking things?

[acevedor2]

No peripherals are attached at all.  I have a wireless keyboard and mouse and both are connected to the ps2 ports. 

[shardian]

Do you by any chance have an ECS mobo? I had problems with the front USB on mine and after troubleshooting DID find that the pinouts were wrong. I had to pop out two wires from the plug and switch them. I still get the occasional time when I'll plug in a thumb drive or my desktop cp and it won't pick up.

[acevedor2]

Shardian,
   I am running a gigabyte mobo.  I haven't double checked the pins yet, I am oing that this evening - been swamped.  That said, if the pins were wrong, I would think that it would not pick up any of the thumb drives or peripherals I plug in.  It does see them, just only when it wants to - 

[Kremmit]

Shardian,
   I am running a gigabyte mobo. 

The link I posted specifically shows a different-from-standard pinout for Gigabyte mobos. 

[DrewKaree]

Guys..... There is of course a simple answer to all of this.... It's obvious that this is a MOBO Fault.

This was kinda funny to read, given the multitude of things it could be, and the statements up to that point that didn't definitively rule out other things.  To me, this could be a driver issue, since it's happened to me as well, and that was the problem. 

Just because XP has a built-in driver for it doesn't mean it's the PROPER driver for it.  When building a new PC, it's common that one of the first things to do after getting the PC operational (with OS installed) is to go online and update all drivers.  Manu-specific drivers may have been written specifically because XP's native driver(s) cause such wonky behavior.

The solution I was given (and I think mine was a Gigabyte board as well) was the same as all old USB devices as well as cameras.  Remove the ports from device manager, go into the case and unhook the header wires.  Reboot.  Run the mobo disc and install the drivers (hopefully they'll be recognized, otherwise....different steps).  Reboot.  Reattach the header wires, check device manager to see no exclamation points....off you go. 

I have no idea if this could work or fix your problem, but there's fistfuls of info out on the 'net for exactly these problems, so you're not unique or alone with this, and as you've found out, it wasn't obviously a mobo problem.  One thing - someone brought up manu's cutting corners to save costs...the case you switched to, was it a DIFFERENT TYPE of case, or just another copy of the same case?  Perhaps you're a victim of such cost cutting measures too.