Making square cuts on a tablesaw is tough.

[javeryh]

This past weekend I finally finished assembling my tablesaw.  I followed the directions exactly, I took my time and got everything together.  The fence that came with it really needs fine tuning to set it up parallel with the blade and I'm not sure I'm going to be able to get it perfect (it doesn't help that I'm scared to death to actually turn the thing on).  It is normal to have to continually check for squareness (like after every adjustment of the fence) or am I maybe missing something?  Norm makes it look so easy!

Is there anything I should know before powering it up?  I don't want to hurt myself.

[ScottS]

The accuracy of the fence varies from one type of saw to the next. In general, the smaller the saw the more likely it is that the fence is inaccurate crap. With a contractor's, hybrid, or cabinet saw the fence should be reasonably accurate once adjusted and should stay that way as long as it isn't abused.

Things to know? If you don't know what "kick-back" is and what causes it do not turn the saw on until you do! You also need to make damn sure that the fence is parallel to the blade.

If your only experience with a tablesaw is watching The New Yankee Workshop, you're asking for trouble. I'd suggest buying and reading Kelly Mehler's The Tablesaw Book, or something similar.

[SavannahLion]

(it doesn't help that I'm scared to death to actually turn the thing on).

If your only experience with a tablesaw is watching The New Yankee Workshop, you're asking for trouble. I'd suggest buying and reading Kelly Mehler's The Tablesaw Book, or something similar.

Stop right there. I'm not trying to preclude you from buying books others suggest. Books are fantastic sources of knowledge, especially when it's difficult to locate someone of knowledge on a particular topic. And I'm not trying to eschew Scotts knowledge of the subject here.

Being scared of a piece of machinery is a good sign. It shows that you're respectful of what it can do. But if you're afraid to turn a piece of machinary on, I strongly recommend that you locate someone who can give you hands on training with the tool in question. Check the local university or community college. Check job training facilities. Go to your local lumberyard on where you could go for lessons. Heck, ask your neighbor who might have a table saw. In my town, there's a craftsman group that meets once a week(?) and those guys just love showing people their trade. Most people will be more than happy to show someone how to use a tablesaw safely. It'd be better to put off a job for a week or two and learn tablesaw usage than to end up in a hospital.

Take it from someone who has a devil of a tablesaw. I'm always afraid of it and that keeps me very mindful of the extra safety precautions I have to take with it.

[Kaytrim]

Good advice SavannahLion.  Get familiar with the saw and the safety features.  Home Depot usually has classes for woodworking on a weekly basis.  Stop by there and see when the next class is on using table saws.  Otherwise find someone who knows how to use it prior to turning the thing on.  My dad is in construction and really know his stuff.  He has always said as long as you understand the operation of a tool, maintain it, and be mindful of the safety systems you shouldn't have a problem.


TTFN 
Kaytrim

[ScottS]

Being scared of a piece of machinery is a good sign. It shows that you're respectful of what it can do.

I disagree. Being cautious and careful are good. Being scared is not good!

But if you're afraid to turn a piece of machinary on, I strongly recommend that you locate someone who can give you hands on training with the tool in question. Check the local university or community college. Check job training facilities. Go to your local lumberyard on where you could go for lessons. Heck, ask your neighbor who might have a table saw.

While I think hands-on training is great, I'd be more than a bit cautious about taking advice from some of the sources you've suggested. I can't count the number of times I've gotten really bad advice on tool operation from tradespeople, store employees, etc. I'd trust a book or a magazine article by a recognized expert before the advice of some random Joe I don't know...

[leapinlew]

Being scared of a piece of machinery is a good sign. It shows that you're respectful of what it can do.

I disagree. Being cautious and careful are good. Being scared is not good!

But if you're afraid to turn a piece of machinary on, I strongly recommend that you locate someone who can give you hands on training with the tool in question. Check the local university or community college. Check job training facilities. Go to your local lumberyard on where you could go for lessons. Heck, ask your neighbor who might have a table saw.

While I think hands-on training is great, I'd be more than a bit cautious about taking advice from some of the sources you've suggested. I can't count the number of times I've gotten really bad advice on tool operation from tradespeople, store employees, etc. I'd trust a book or a magazine article by a recognized expert before the advice of some random Joe I don't know...

Hey Javery -

ScottS is really a good source for woodworking, and he's right. You should respect your equipment, but do not be scared. If you check out ScottS previous posts you'll see he has some pretty knowledgeable advice. I'm not saying Savannah is wrong, but ScottS been around a while and has my vote of approval.

[SavannahLion]

While I think hands-on training is great, I'd be more than a bit cautious about taking advice from some of the sources you've suggested. I can't count the number of times I've gotten really bad advice on tool operation from tradespeople, store employees, etc. I'd trust a book or a magazine article by a recognized expert before the advice of some random Joe I don't know...

The problem with reading a book or magazine article, even one by a recognized expert, is that it might leave some assumption out. The person who is reading it might not understand that the guard has to be in a certain position or a certain knob has to be tightened. Or the person reading it might not be able to translate the adjustments for the tool used in the article to the tool they have in their hands. I have nothing against books, I have an entire library of them for countless topics. When it comes to power tools and the need to learn how to use them safely, by and far, the best place to go is to a decent university, community college or trade school. My father was a carpenter for over 30 years and of the many rules he had for his employees, he had one that he never wavered from, every single one of them had to go take courses if they wanted to work for him. There's always some crucial detail that can be forgotten that is (hopefully) captured during the lessons.

Having fear for a particular tool is a good sign. It shows something is amiss about your ability to use said tool and it shows that you need to learn more about tool in question before you're actually ready. Having no fear about a tool is a double edged sword. It either means that you understand your tool very well or you're too naive to know just how dangerous the tool really is. I guess respectful might not have been the word I wanted to use, but I can't think of anything else to express a combination of fear and err.. respect I guess. ScottS doesn't have fear for his tools, I don't either. But a person only has our word that we don't fear them because we're cautious, careful and respectful of the tools. As far as anybody knows, I might use my Husqvarna to cut down weeds.

In any case, javeryh, go ahead and take whatever advice you feel is more comfortable for you. When looking at books,  make sure they're something that you can understand and translate to the tools you own. When deciding on the class, make sure the person teaching you can answer your competitantly and in a clear manner. Try to eschew big box stores (note I never said to take lessons from store employees).

Slightly OT. What table saw do most people here use?

[NiteWalker]

First of all, what table saw did you buy? If it was a benchtop model, all but the most expensive ones will likely give you trouble with the fence locking down parallel to the blade. Being afraid is bad. You want to respect the tool, not fear it. Fear will only persuade you to stand further from the saw when making cuts and maybe even flinch a bit when you turn it on. Both are accident inviting mistakes.

I second Kelly Mehler's book The Tablesaw Book. He also has a video, Mastering your Tablesaw that is a great resource. That Video and Book taught me how to use my tablesaw properly. Classes are nice, but not around everybody. I can't rely on classes so I have to rely on books, videos and hands on experience. Been working fine so far.

Slightly OT. What table saw do most people here use?

I have the Delta 36-980. I love it. It's a really high quality machine. The fence locks down parallel to the blade every time. Once I set it up and tuned it properly all cuts are accurate and where I want them to be. There's more pics in my album.

[moriartyds]

First, I'd get or make a pushstick, and featherboard.  Benchdog makes some you can find at Lowes.  If you don't know how to use them, read the books mentioned or check online.

Second, try not to ever take off your blade guard (you may have to for some cuts, but avoid unless necessary). 

Third, as mentioned make sure you understand what kickback is and how to avoid it.  As someone who's taken a 2x6 in the chest before, it hurts ... but it can be avoided.

As long as you understand how to avoid kickbacks, and make sure you NEVER get your fingers close to the blade or your body in a position where if you slip you/your fingers could get close to the blade , then the table saw is actually pretty easy to work with IMO.

[leapinlew]

So then... how do you guys avoid kickbacks?

[moriartyds]

So then... how do you guys avoid kickbacks?

Main thing is to avoid getting the wood pinched against the saw blade.  This in my experience happens most often when you let the wood move off the fence (when using a fence).   You start pushing the wood into the blade,  but because you're not at a right angle it pinches (this can occur if you don't set your blade parallel to your fence as well).  It's certainly avoidable if you're careful with what you're doing, just make sure as you rip the material it slides along the fence.

Other than that, the 'book' answers are: use your miter gage for cross cuts (not the fence), make sure the spreader is on straight (the fin like part that keeps the cut end separate from the uncut end), ensure the little hold down legs on the side of the spreader are making contact, keep the blade clean and relatively sharp (particularly if you're cutting 'sappy' woods), and only raise the blade a little higher than the piece you're cutting (e.g. if the piece is 1/4" thick, I wouldn't raise the blade more than 1/2" above the table).  When possible, use of a featherboard will help as well. 

Nothing I know of can prevent kickback if you hit a particular bad knot or something, but that's pretty rare (and non-existent with most arcade-cab materials).  You could try to not stand right behind the piece you are cutting just in case, but you'll only make it worse if you end up reaching (which could cause you or the wood to slip).

I'm not sure I'd agree that 'fearing' the tablesaw is good;  I would say better to respect it.  That said, it's a pretty easy tool to use once you understand the basics.

EDIT - one more thing.  That tablesaw book mentioned is a good book for beginners, but if you're looking to save some money check your local library.  They'll probably have 2-3 books on using a tablesaw, and unless you're making fancy jigs you probably don't need a copy of the book once you read/understand it.

[ScottS]

So then... how do you guys avoid kickbacks?

The first thing to do is understand the causes of kickback. There are many, but the most common ones involve the piece moving away from the fence or being pinched between the fence and the blade. In these situations, there's the potential for the teeth at the back of the blade to catch and throw the piece back at you.

To avoid kickback:

Make sure the fence, blade, and miter slots are properly aligned

Use the splitter supplied with the saw or a suitable aftermarket alternative

Keep the piece being being cut against the fence at all times!

Use the miter gauge or the fence, but not both at the same time

Use a featherboard, when appropriate, to keep wood against the fence and down on the table. Grip Tite's magnetic featherboards are a really slick product in this regard. If there's a woodworking show in your area, their demo is pretty darn impressive.

Use a special jig or fence when working with laminates or other very thin stock that can slide under a normal fence. Invariably, the piece is sliding under the fence the back is also skewing into the blade, inviting kickback.

I would also suggest that you need to set the blade at an appropriate height for the cut being made. Different people have different opinions of what constitutes "appropriate". I would probably tend to run the blade a bit higher than most; the lower the blade the more teeth are buried in the wood at any particular time and the easier it is for kickback to happen if something goes wrong.

[NiteWalker]

The simple answer to the kickback question- and this is assuming your tablesaw is properly tuned, is to use a splitter. With a splitter in place and correctly aligned the wood will never have the chance to contact the back of the blade and being thrown at you. Anti kickback fingers are also helpful but a splitter is the numero uno line of defense. A guard WILL NOT prevent kickback. That's just to keep the digits safe and attached to your hand.

One thing about pushsticks; AVOID the type that are sticks with notches at the end. They invite more accidents than they prevent. Go for the shoe type. These are way better and safer.

[prOk]

Different quality table saws make a huuuuuge difference.. your standard issue 100.00 craftsman will probably never be reliably square.   Kickback is never something you can completely avoid, every woodworker has a kickback event (or many) occur.  The best thing you can do is respect the saw.. I echo ScottS here, RESPECT for the tool is in order, not fear.   If you're scared of it, odds are you are going to take a gingerly touch for fear of something going wrong.  Tools such as this take a smart and confident approach in addition to following the rules.   If you push a piece of wood through with two fingers because you're scared of it you're just begging for a piece of wood in the gut.

While books are nice, nothing beats hands on training or shadowing someone with more experience.   Also, keep your saw clean, blade clean and blade sharp at all times.  Overbuildup of pitch on blades is a prime source of kickback too.

For the safety aspect, there's a product some of you may have seen called the 'grripper' which is a shoe type push tool but it is very configurable to the material you are dealing with.. in addition it keeps your hands completely away from the blade.  Look them up, I sell them for 54.00 and they are awesome for safety.  Feathearboards are also a fantastic thing to have, but at the same time, learn to use them.  Improperly used featherboards are a strong source of accidents too.

/brian

[SavannahLion]

OK, I'm a little confused on my nomenclature here.

I was taught and raised to use notched pushsticks. Like the first picture on this random site.

I had always figured that the "shoe-type" push sticks is what's in the second picture and the third, like the Grrriper is considered a push block. Or do I have that backwards there?

[NiteWalker]

The first one in those pics are the ones to avoid. They invite more accidents than anything else. The second one is the best kind to use. I've made several and use them all. Takes 1/2 hour to make one. Less if you're not picky about appearance. The grriper is nice and all but the price is crazy for what it does. You can fabricate something similar out of MDF and rubber padding from walmart for a small fraction of the cost. I keep meaning to build something like that but my push shoes have been working so well I haven't had the need to.

One more thing to consider building for your tablesaw is a cross cut sled. Make one, make sure it's accurate and it'll last a long time.

[prOk]

yea.. no way i'd ever use a push stick again.. dangerous beasties those are.

Hey Night, have you used a gripper?  I know it's a tad expensive but as easy as it reconfigures to cut things down to 1/8 safely it's worth it to me.   I used to have half a dozen jigs and sticks and crap but i reduced it to just a gripper and it's great.  Just my opinion of course

[sodapopinski]

I try to avoid the pushstick. The general rule is to use it when your space between the blade and fence is less than 100mm(4"). Like mentioned before, quality is huge. A solid saw will cut like butter, there should be no reason for kickback unless your crosscutting.  I taught my 58 year old mother how to use my bosch, and she loves the thing. If she can use it safely, anybody can.

[NiteWalker]

Hey Night, have you used a gripper?  I know it's a tad expensive but as easy as it reconfigures to cut things down to 1/8 safely it's worth it to me.   I used to have half a dozen jigs and sticks and crap but i reduced it to just a gripper and it's great.  Just my opinion of course

I may grab one if I can get a deal on it. It never seems to go on sale at amazon though. I haven't used one, but was impressed by a demo I saw. Then I was unimpressed with the price. Who knows though? I've spent a lot of money on tools. What's another $70 for something I'll use a lot. I guess the real price of a tool can be determined by how much use it gets rather the sticker on it.

Thanks prOk. You may have just spent $70 of my money. 

[ScottS]

If there are any woodworking shows in your area, look there. I bought a pair of the GR-200 models for less than $100 a couple of years ago. FWIW, I rarely use the extra doo-dads that the GR-200 includes over the GR-100. When feeding long stock through the jointer or ripping it on the tablesaw, it's pretty nice to have two of them...

[prOk]

Heheh.. grippers are good.. I dunno if you guys cut veneers much but I use mine a lot for that.. only thing i've ever used that lets you rip a veneer sheet on a table saw

[javeryh]

Wow - this thread is full of great info!! 

So if I'm cutting a piece of MDF or plywood to make a panel should I be using the perpendicular mitre to push it into the saw blade or should I be running it along the parallel fence and using a push-stick/gripper to push it into the saw blade?

[ScottS]

So if I'm cutting a piece of MDF or plywood to make a panel should I be using the perpendicular mitre to push it into the saw blade or should I be running it along the parallel fence and using a push-stick/gripper to push it into the saw blade?

Not to make you paranoid about this... but you should really know the answer to this question before purchasing a tablesaw!

Use the fence when making rip cuts. Use the miter gauge, or better yet a sled, when making cross cuts.

[moriartyds]

I'm rather suprised by the number of people avoiding the use of push sticks ... unless everyone just means the notched types.  I personally use my shoe type stick quite a bit.  I couldn't imagine narrow making cuts (small distance betwen the blade and fence) without one.

Side note - those grip tite featherboards look pretty cool.  I may have to try some of those.

[SavannahLion]

I'm rather suprised by the number of people avoiding the use of push sticks ... unless everyone just means the notched types.

I am too, but I guess it's a case of too many people not using the tool in question properly that it's just better to say forget it and find a safer tool to use.

While we're on the topic of safety, anyone ever look at the Sawstop? Pretty cool but the tool creeps me out when I think about someone who is so used to using a Sawstop and they, for whatever reason, use a table saw that doesn't have that feature?

As it stands, I have two tablesaws and my GF has one. Mine are devils and with a seven year old who always insists on "helping" even after careful explaining of the dangers, GF wants this saw when we get the garage back in order.

[ScottS]

I'm rather suprised by the number of people avoiding the use of push sticks ... unless everyone just means the notched types.

Bingo! I don't think anyone is saying that you shouldn't use a push stick at all. We're just saying that the notch-type push sticks cause more problems than they solve. I would heartily recommend a shoe-type push stick, GRR-Ripper, or anything else that will actually work and help you maintain control of the wood when doing narrow rips...

[ScottS]

While we're on the topic of safety, anyone ever look at the Sawstop? Pretty cool but the tool creeps me out when I think about someone who is so used to using a Sawstop and they, for whatever reason, use a table saw that doesn't have that feature?

The SawStop is a fantastic product! But it's not the only way to improve the safety of a tablesaw. My understanding is that it's virtually impossible to buy an American-style tablesaw over in Europe. They're simply considered too dangerous... Why the major U.S. manufacturers haven't added riving knives and decent blade guards to tablesaws is beyond me.

[sodapopinski]

he SawStop is a fantastic product!

great saw, we have them in the shops at school. Best table saw i've ever used

[SavannahLion]

My understanding is that it's virtually impossible to buy an American-style tablesaw over in Europe. They're simply considered too dangerous... Why the major U.S. manufacturers haven't added riving knives and decent blade guards to tablesaws is beyond me.

I can think of a lot of reasons really. Depends on your perspective I think.

For instance, when blade guards were first introduced in my school shop, we took all the guards off (I say this from the perspective of a student). We found the plastic guards made the kickback worse when the wood twisted the plastic and metal bits into the blade and made a mess of things. Those were the early years when the guards were first being introduced, but these things tend to make a lasting impression. Not once single person I know from that class use guards on any of their table saws, despite improvements in the design.

I've never encountered this problem myself, but I hear a lot of complaints that the guard ruins the finish on the wood. In my opinion, I always thought that was what sanding was for.

There are a lot of grognards around that don't do well with using "new-fangled" equipment. These grognards pass that idea down to the next generation and so on and so forth. They also pass down the idea that older equipment was "built to last." (I won't debate the truthfulness of that point.) That's my running theory on why a lot of people offer to try and buy my old guardless Homelite chainsaw but no one ever offers to buy my bigger, newer, and "safer", Husqvarna.

And I always hear the same thing over and over. COST. I can't count how many times I've encountered people willing to save a $100 by not buying guards or whatever for their equipment.

I'm sure there are lots more reasons, but I'm out of time

edit: fixed quoting

[NiteWalker]

The SawStop is a wonderful saw. The fact that it is an excellently engineered saw inside and out is often overlooked by it's blade stopping feature. Even without the stop feature, it's a top class tablesaw, maybe even surpassing those made by powermatic, laguna, etc.

Even with that being said, I'll likely never own one. Cost is an issue to a point. My current tablesaw is working great, so I see no reason to upgrade. Even if I did own a sawstop, I'd act like the stopping feature wasn't even there. It is not a safety feature. It is an accident preventive. As long as people view it as such, and not a feature, they will be less likely to take it for granted and ignore normal safety practices. Not to mention the fact that every time the blade break is engaged it destroys the blade and the brake. That can be costly if you spend good money on sawblades or dado sets.

Scott, one of the big reasons (I think) american saws are hard to get in europe is because dado sets are not allowed in europe. Safety officials deem them too dangerous, just as you said.

[ScottS]

Scott, one of the big reasons (I think) american saws are hard to get in europe is because dado sets are not allowed in europe. Safety officials deem them too dangerous, just as you said.

Most european saws also tend to have additional safety features: riving knives, sliding tables, better blade guards, etc. Not sure how many of those are required by law.

[NiteWalker]

European sliding tables put us made sliding tables to shame. There are some very nice sliding tables for us saws, but theri quality is nothing compared to euro saws. I wonder why saws in the us skimp on the safety features so much sometimes.

Makes me want a euro saw...

[prOk]

Wow.. first time I've ever heard someone unhappy about the cost of a blade and brake on a sawstop..  If you really think about it, IF you  need a blade and brake it probably means you just saved a few fingers.. Cheap date if you ask me.

Sawstops are great tablesaws, but the powermatic pm2000, jet Exactasaw etc all have as good or better performance.  You're paying for the safety aspect.  I hear all the time how people say 'if you're using your saw properly you don't need a sawstop' type of comment, but, realistically name one person that's not had a close call in the shop?  No matter how careful you are you just never know when that freak kickback might throw your hand into the blade.  It's not a replacement for common sense and good safety practices but it does make a good insurance policy.

On the pushstick thing, i'm not shocked at all to hear people avoid using them.  They were good long ago, but by today's standards with the great inventions people have made the pushstick is essentially archaic as shop safety tools go.  Any item that can become dangerous in and of itself if not used safely can go bye bye in my book

[SavannahLion]

t's not a replacement for common sense and good safety practices but it does make a good insurance policy.

That's the point I'm trying to make. They've had to make a law on the books stating that airbags are not a substitute for seatbelts, but a supplement.

The saw looks like a great product, it just creeps me out thinking about peoples attitude about safety. Reading some of the testimonials, I can't help but think, wtf were you doing being that careless?