Repro artwork site

[sfrascella]

http://www.thisoldgame.com/thisoldgame/new_page_2.htm

Anyone know anything about these guy's? I'm thinking of ordering the Galaxian CPO if they have quality stuff.

[Luigi]

Great.....they took my Asteroids Deluxe CPO from Localarcade and now sell it for their profit 

I recognize it because I used other arrows than on the original panel.


That's not the way it was meant. I guess I will never ever upload a CPO again   




edit: I did a little comparison

The upper picture is the thumbnail from Localarcade and the picture below is the one shown on their site. I guess that you all will agree that they look like twins 

[btp2k2]

yeah, they sure look the same to me

[Luigi]

I used a light grey for imitating the silver colour of the original.....you won't find that on any other CPO.


I will ask them but I'm pretty sure they will claim they did it on their own 

[btp2k2]

Interesting....I am getting a "Sorry, but you are forbidden to view the page or the file that you're looking for." when going there now.....I pulled it up once.

There are on tripod....can't even spring for a real hosting provider

[Luigi]

Yeah, you're right. Nothing works there.....maybe someone else felt kicked in the a** 


Anyway.....I wrote them an email where I explained the whole thing. I asked them to remove my cpo from their offer. If they at least had asked for permission.


To all other members: please check their site (if they get ever up again) if they took your work from Localarcade (or whereever) too!!!

[FrizzleFried]

...still down.

[Luigi]

They are up again.


Ich compared "their" Galaxian CPO with the thumbnail at Localarcade: identical !!!  What the..... 

[zorg]

I guess Burgertime bezel, cpo, side art are the one I traced.
Berzerk should be the one traced by ravage.
Space invader by .... and so on.

personaly I don't care if they use the work I've set up on AAL.

the price they quote on the website, would be for the printing process.

[Luigi]

They should have asked for permission. The reason why I upped the file was that other arcade enthusiast can use it for their own restoration. I've spent hours and days searching pictures, measuring and drawing...like you others too, I guess.


And you don't want to tell me they don't make any profit with that, do you?

[motorfish]

Great.....they took my Asteroids Deluxe CPO from Localarcade and now sell it for their profit 

I recognize it because I used other arrows than on the original panel.


That's not the way it was meant. I guess I will never ever upload a CPO again   




edit: I did a little comparison

The upper picture is the thumbnail from Localarcade and the picture below is the one shown on their site. I guess that you all will agree that they look like twins 

I feel your pain sir. I've had countless images and designs stolen by companies which have made tremendous profits, while I've sat back and not even been recognized for creating such piece, nor been compensated a penny.

A custom CPO design duplicated for someone's own personal use? Sure thing. No problem. Sold for profit? No way. Not unless the actual artist is compensated for his time and energy.

"I mean, I didn't have to pay for the ROMS, right? Why should I have to pay for custom artwork when I can get the actual ROMS for free?" is such the mindset of at least half of the MAME and custom arcade community.

[Luigi]

Here's the answer from Richard:

Not sure what happened here
I scanned in my orginal panel and redrew it in corel as well
alot of the differences you pointed out may be in fact caused by the dpi
resolution of the jpg
it was a simulated graphic composite as the screenprinted lexan does not
photograph as well
As most of the images on my site are done the same way, with some exceptions
where an actual photograph is used

All of my reproductions are made from orginal parts that I own.
They are scanned, vectored using CorelDraw then color seperated for
screenprinting

Please feel free to contact me if you have any other questions.
Thanks again and game oN!
Richard



What a poor liar Well, I was prepared for such an answer but still I don't know what to do now. If I ask him to send me his Vector-File for comparison he will immediately change it a little. He seems to ignore that the two thumbnails are identical 



My answer to him:


Hi Richard.


Come on, have you compared your thumbnail with the one at Localarcade? It's really the same. Same colors. They are identical (besides the size). All other CPOs I found during my search on the net had other colors. How do you explain that??? I know what jpg-compression can cause but that is not what happened here.

I also compared the Galaxian CPO at Localarcade with your thumbnail: they are exactly the same, even the size.

Btw....look here : http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=63481.0

There are other people recognizing their work.....it's not only me.

The fact that this artwork is "public domain" at Localarcade does not mean that one can download it and make profit with it.



However.....I'm very sad about that and I will never upload my work again.


Bye

[Bobbler]

Surely they have just been and shot themselves in the foot there?
Given as this "theft" is now documented on one of the biggest sources for his customer base, would it not been better to have just complied with the request for removal?

[Luigi]

Surely they have just been and shot themselves in the foot there?
Given as this "theft" is now documented on one of the biggest sources for his customer base, would it not been better to have just complied with the request for removal?

In my first mail I complained about the fact that they simply took the free files from Localarcade and asked them to remove my CPO.....as you see above he claims that he has done it himself. I still don't believe that. Look at his stupid plea (alot of the differences you pointed out may be in fact caused by the dpi
resolution of the jpg/it was a simulated graphic composite as the screenprinted lexan does not photograph as well).

Does anybody here think he drawed them himself?


Concerning the price: he wants $39 for an Asteroids Deluxe CPO. That's about 29 Euros. I paid 20 Euros for printing my CPO. And don't be silly: he will get a much better price, looking forward to order dozens of CPOs. But let's assume he has $10 as his profit. Not bad for just stealing other people's work      Lazy as he seems to be he even used the thumbnails from Localarcade.

[prOk]

Man.. all this noise about artwork you weren't legally allowed to duplicate and post for public use in the first place.  Try not to forget that part.   Localarcade is a cool resource, but you can't forget that it's existence is on shaky legal ground to start with.

Also, before going nutso about costs, make sure you understand the processes involved.  Printing one overlay on an inkjet machine is a very different process both time and cost wise than screen printing and the resulting quality of product reflects it.  End of the day, if you don't want people using the art, don't put it out there publicly.  To me, if you make it freely available then so be it.  If someone uses that art to make a high quality reproduction product that you can't do that's a good thing right?  It's a part you wouldn't otherwise have no?   If you think people get rich off arcade repro parts i'd think twice.

As a repro art producer I am both a user and a contributor to the localarcade repository. There has been an incident in the past where someone swiped artwork off my site that I did not want posted there and uploaded it there without my permission but this was custom artwork I designed and mahuti kindly removed it.  I never thought of the AAL as being a me me me mine mine mine repository, it's there to share and hopefully assist others in getting artwork made.. if you have one overlay printed at kinkos they will be making money off of the work.  I'd rather have someone that understands artwork and arcade games do a high quality product and then buy it from them and compensate them for their work.  It's also great to have multiple sources for quality parts, too many inkjetters have come along and soiled the quality work done out there with prints made by people that don't understand color (Scott at Mamemarquees being a notable exception).

Anyway, i'd tone down the rhetoric about someone 'stealing' something that you stole first (unless of course you own the rights to the Atari artwork for Asteroids deluxe and didn't tell us )    Just because you redrew it, doesn't make the art legally yours and if atari wanted to they could prove the point. 

[Luigi]

@prOk: of course, you're right. I do not own the right for this panel's artwork nor does Localarcade. And "stealing" is surely not the right expression here. I did not steal the cpo. To be exact, I made a copy of our CP. I'd rather compare it with playing/singing and recording myself all music tracks from an Audio-CD I bought    Not simply make a copy but reproduce it with a lot of work. The "illegal" thing was to upload it to AAL and share with the community.

By the way.....what do you think how many arcadeshops asked the manufacturers if they may take the artwork, redraw it and make money with it ?? (no, I don't think one gets rich by selling arcade stuff)

Don't missunderstand me....I don't know that!!! Maybe the shops that offer repro artwork pay a license fee to the manufacturers they reproduce....maybe not.



hmmmm..... I guess this leads to nothing. What makes me so angry about that: he could have asked Localarcade if he may use the files for providing other arcade enthusiasts with artwork at a reasonable price (which I still think they offer!!!). But instead he still claims he did this all by himself.

OK OK, since I cannot prove that it is really "my" file he used I will calm down and leave this thing alone......

[zorg]

Thank's pRok 

you explained thing's better than my english would have allowed me to do so.

Zorg still tarcing and uploading to AAL, even if some of my tracing are used by reproers. (I take that as a compliment, not as a "stealing")

printing quality repro, material, colors is a professional task that most of us does not master, I'm glad to see guys involving efforts to provide the whole comunity some quality printing.

anyway if a printer would want to donate some money, printed material from my work, drop me a pm

[spriggy]

You got in before me... Don't you hate that? I typed a nice reasonably long reply.. and then fat fingers made me lose the lot!  Doh!  And hey prOK!... Aren't you selling stuff based on some of my work?       Hogannnnnn!!!

Luigi... chill and be happy someone is willing to go to the trouble of setting up Screen Printing Ellements based on your artwork (if it's yours).  They must think it's worth the trouble!

I would imagine a hell of a lot of printing companies would  have already made a profit printing out your artwork from your downloaded file.

[Luigi]

Luigi... chill and be happy someone is willing to go to the trouble of setting up Screen Printing Ellements based on your artwork (if it's yours).  They must think it's worth the trouble!

Of course it is dude 

Just kidding, if I weren't proud of my work I wouldn't have had it attached to my control panel

I calmed down a little and thought things over. I still think he should have asked for permission but I will ask the AAL admins if they can't insert a sign saying "Dear repro shops "(please excuse my horrible english) "All this artwork has been done by arcade enthusiasts and freely given to others for supporting their own restoration. We appreciate when you take those files an offer high quality artwork at a reasonable price. If you make money with this artwork, please consider making a donation to a charitable company" (please use better words than I know).

Even if its only $1 per artwork he sells.....better than nothing and I would have a good feeling about that 


What do you guys think about that?



edit: spriggy, could you please make this chick stop licking the good old Atari joystick? Or provide a larger picture 

[spriggy]

edit: spriggy, could you please make this chick stop licking the good old Atari joystick? Or provide a larger picture 

Nope! 

[sfrascella]

As someone who has just gotten in to restoring these old games, I have to say that I am grateful to the people who took the time to scan, trace, and upload the artwork. At the same time I am happy that others provide a place for me to purchase quality reproductions of that artwork since I lack the skills and equipment to do so.

And yes I would be in favor of paying an additional fee for the artwork if I knew the extra money was going to the person who did the original trace.

Just my 2 cents.

[Luigi]

And yes I would be in favor of paying an additional fee for the artwork if I knew the extra money was going to the person who did the original trace.
Just my 2 cents.

Erm....with "charitable company" (is that a good expression ) I didn't mean me 

As I already said: I think he sells the repros for a reasonable price (though I don't know what quality he delivers), OK from this side. The only thing I don't like is the way he did it.

[zorg]

And yes I would be in favor of paying an additional fee for the artwork if I knew the extra money was going to the person who did the original trace.

I can provide you my paypal information

[spriggy]

And yes I would be in favor of paying an additional fee for the artwork if I knew the extra money was going to the person who did the original trace.

I can provide you my paypal information

Looks like you won't have to work soon Zorg.  The money will be rolling in!! 

[Luigi]

Can somebody tell me why my Asteroids Deluxe CPO was removed from Localarcade?

I hope it is not because of my postings here. That has nothing to do with the fact that I want to share my work with the community 


I changed some emails with Richard (from www.thisoldgame.com) and he really seems to care about that. This topic is over for me. You sure are right: it's not only taking the files and printing them. From my ow two projects (more to come) I know that....

So please bring back the CPO to AAL 

[zorg]

Can somebody tell me why my Asteroids Deluxe CPO was removed from Localarcade?

So please bring back the CPO to AAL 

Are you sure your CPO was removed ??

http://localarcade.com/arcade_art/details.php?image_id=1088 ?

[Luigi]

   It seems that only the thumbnail has gone....weird 


But if there's no thumbnail that can be clicked it cannot be downloaded.......

[zorg]

sounds like you have a problem, here's what I have on screen and I just downloaded the file without problems

[Luigi]

it's there again...even more weird     

 

[zorg]

it's there again...

nop, it was ALWAYS there.

you may have a cache problem.

[Luigi]

it's there again...

nop, it was ALWAYS there.

you may have a cache problem.

I had that problem at three different PCs.....doesn't matter...it's still there

[WunderCade]

You Know.....

People complain about having to pay out the rump for artwork from a select few "dealers". We then dredge around this forum to find alternative people or vendors to produce artwork or who have printers. Then, we turn around and cry that others are stepping up to the plate and offering to print this stuff for us but not giving credit. We then start whining about not getting our share of profit. Or, "they stole my work!" BLA BLA BLA BLA....

C'mon now, if some people are willing to PRINT us out this stuff for a cheaper pricethen say...(2Bits) then let them have at it already and stop griping about credit for this and that and getting your share.....we're all in this together, let's not start thumping on one another. GEEEEZ!

[zorg]

You Know.....

snip things I tend to agree

just a question, did YOU know the time needed to trace artwork ?

It's just a matter of respect to credit people you are using work.

anyway AAL is here and I hope people will still contribute and populate it.

[Luigi]

You Know.....

snip things I tend to agree

just a question, did YOU know the time needed to trace artwork ?

It's just a matter of respect to credit people you are using work.

anyway AAL is here and I hope people will still contribute and populate it.

Thanks for that 


And I want to say it again: I don't want to have money for the files, otherwise I would try to sell it to the known arcade shops for a few bucks instead of uploading them to AAL. When my work helps others to bring new life to a machine that (maybe) was saved from the dumpster...that's enough "payment" for me and makes me really happy   

[WunderCade]

When my work helps others to bring new life to a machine that (maybe) was saved from the dumpster...that's enough "payment" for me and makes me really happy   

I agree. That was my point. From a restoration standpoint, our passion to save these machines should be our reward, not whether or not we receive props or kudos. That is why I was scratching my head wondering why you had a problem with this guy providing a service that we all use and need, and the fact that your work (you believe) is being used should be a form of flattery, not insult....it just goes to show you that your work is directly helping to save these machines.

I was just wondering why you concluded that you would never upload your work again. Difference of opinion I guess.

P.S. Props on that artwork and thanks for doing it - even though I haven't used it for a restoration, someone probably has and as a result, you saved another machine. 

[rikitiki]

another side note from thisoldgame.com
it takes more time to rework someones art from AAL for screenprinted reproductions than it does to simply retrace it.  allowing for color seperations, trapping, placements, measurements, etc.
This procresss is how it was originally done  and takes far more time than just clicking print on your inkjet.
 AAL is a good source for refernece  and if I ever need a piece of art that I dont have Id be more than happy to hook up the artist with a free printing of his piece.
I find it hard to believe that some people believe that redrawing this art can only be accomplished by a handful of AALs elite.

Just trying to bring fire to the people.
GAME ON!
Richard

[Luigi]

another side note from thisoldgame.com
it takes more time to rework someones art from AAL for screenprinted reproductions than it does to simply retrace it.  allowing for color seperations, trapping, placements, measurements, etc.
This procresss is how it was originally done  and takes far more time than just clicking print on your inkjet.
 AAL is a good source for refernece  and if I ever need a piece of art that I dont have Id be more than happy to hook up the artist with a free printing of his piece.
I find it hard to believe that some people believe that redrawing this art can only be accomplished by a handful of AALs elite.

Just trying to bring fire to the people.
GAME ON!
Richard

With two uploads to AAL I do not consider myself beeing a member of AAL's elite

I calmed down about that...you folks may all continue your business