Newbie Question - PC Case or no Case?

[Moose13]

Hey Guys,
I've been using Mame for 5 years or so onmy PC and FINALLY am jumping into the cabinet scene. My slikstik classic controller with overlay is on order (yeah, yeah I know, good luck with the production & shipping times). I'm about to order the UAII cabinet (I'm no carpenter, nor do I have all the tools necessary). I have a montherboard, processor (Athelon 64, 3200+) and 1G of memory on order. I have a spare hard drive (100 G) and power supply.I also picked up a Toshiba 27"TV (with power return) on craigslist for $50, which shold do the job well along with a ATI Radeon 9600 128M video card. I've been starting to test front ends, and found Maximus Arcade (yeah it's $25, but I think it'll be well spent). I think it's great for the ability to run so many emulators under one roof (or program).

Things I need to buy:
I need one of those smart power strips to turn everything on and off.
A PC case.

Now there's my question. Do I really need a case? Should I mount the MB directly on one of the cabinets sides? If I do that will the CPU fan/cooler be enough?
I've read about people putting fans in the cabinet, but I don't know if it's really necessary. If it is, I'd probably have an intake ONLY, at the botton front, with a exhaust grill or cutout at the top back.

Thanks to all the people on this board for all the ideas, as I lurked for the past 2 months. And thanks in advance for advice I'm seeking, and constructive criticism, if I need it, dish it out. If I'm doing anything wrong I wann know now before it's too late.

Moose13

[leapinlew]

If you don't have a case, but you already have a PC - you can mount it all in there. I keep mine in their cases since they are already in cases, if you don't have a case - don't worry about it.

As for the fans - I'd put at least 1 in there. I'd reverse it and have 1 fan pull air out of the top or back-top of the cab and a hole for intake.

also - lets see some pics!

[RayB]

You don't need a case. Your cabinet IS the case.

You can see what I did in photos here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=21381.40

I didn't even bother with extra fans since the whole board is exposed, and hot air rises away from it.

[SavannahLion]

I'll play devil's advocate here.

You can get away with not using a case in the cabinet like most people. I've run many PC's for years exposed to the elements in some fashion, even once hanging a PC on my wall to prevent my cats from playing with the colorful cabling (didn't work). On the flip side, you might encounter problems like what we're talking about in the Faraday Cage thread.

I'm opting for a PC case in my first cabinet. Space is going to be tight and it's going to be hard enough for me snaking all those wires everywhere without worrying about  PC itself.

[unclet]

I like to keep everything in the case so if there is a problem with the computer and I need to work on the computer, I can simply pull it out of the cabinet and work on it, instead of having to unmount stuff from the  walls of the cabinet.

Also, be careful of having everything expose in the cabinet.   You could reach in there and knock something lose on the motherboard, or break something.   Worries me, so I never did it, but real arcade cabinets have eveything mounted inside .... so go figure ....

[leapinlew]

I'll play devil's advocate here.

You can get away with not using a case in the cabinet like most people. I've run many PC's for years exposed to the elements in some fashion, even once hanging a PC on my wall to prevent my cats from playing with the colorful cabling (didn't work). On the flip side, you might encounter problems like what we're talking about in the Faraday Cage thread.

I'm opting for a PC case in my first cabinet. Space is going to be tight and it's going to be hard enough for me snaking all those wires everywhere without worrying about  PC itself.

I've built 6 cabinets now. 5 of the cabinets have the PC's in their cases because I wasn't going to decase a PC to remount it in a huge cabinet with plenty of space.

For my bartop I had no choice but to decase. I say if you got the room and it's already in a case - just drop it in the cabinet. But, I wouldn't buy a case. I'd mount the whole thing to some wood and mount that in the cabinet.

[Teebor]

hmm I can't find any pictures but I built my machine into the inside of the control panel box (the box was intended to be a separate piece all along so this worked well)

It doesn't really matter tbh which way you do it so long as you make sure you have no wayward wires and everything grounds out correctly.

The only technical reason for a case is for electronic emissions control (faraday cage thread potential problem) but if its a newish machine it should be ok

[Bobbler]

I went without a case, but my cab has a sliding tray (made of the same as the cabinet carcas) on runners so you can just slide it out and work on it. I just mounted the powersupply and everthing directly to this bit of board.
Does the job for me

[Moose13]

Well I don't have a PC yet, that's why I'm asking about it.
Is this Faraday cage thing a specific problem. I sounds like NO ONE else has had this problem. I don't have a garage door opener, meybe I don't have to worry
I do like the option that I can take the entire PC out to work on it if I need to. I haven't thought about that.

I guess the step are:
Try it without the case, if I have probelms I'll get one (sounds cheaper and less headaches than some of the other solutions.
Maybe I'll run into a free case of very cheap one.....

[Teebor]

Yep thats a good method to work to.  I can't see it being a problem though it seems like the other thread is kind of unique as I have not heard about anything like that happening before and I have been working with PC's for years

[Loki]

I think I would go without a case... mount everything on a removable board. It's lighter and cheaper. You also won't use case coolers so it's even more quiet.
Use some big fans in the cab itself and hook them up on a fan speed controller. They can move more air with less sound.

[clockwork]

This article suggests it's better to leave the case on: http://www.pcguide.com/care/care/gen/coolAir-c.html

Whether that's true or not, I don't know, but I'd say if you're not having heat issues, just leave it in the case.

[SavannahLion]

Is this Faraday cage thing a specific problem. I sounds like NO ONE else has had this problem.

Just a mention, I don't know exactly why it's like this. I suspect something burned out and errant EMI exasperates the problem.

I have a BH6 with a classic Celery that I ran overclocked for about four years. It was so rock solid that the fan failed at one point and melted the plastic clips for the CPU and melted the VRAM a bit. Swapped the vcard out put a new fan in and the board was back up and running. That happened a year into the boards life. On year five, I started getting intermittent crashes in Windows and some of the files were corrupted. I swapped out every component I could but I kept having problems. I ran memtest86 and found pages of botched RAM. I swapped the modules around and out and it still failed. IIRC, if I had RAM in just slot 1, it passed. If slot 1 & 2 were filled, both failed. If slot 1, 2 and 3 was filled, slot 1 would fail. slot 1 & 3 would make 3 fail. If I put everything in a case, all the test results would change. All the components were tested with a different motherboard (except CPU) and everything passed. I declocked the board and everything passed again. As near as I can figure, something burned out or EMI (from the board itself?) is playing some wicked role. I finally retired the motherboard and scavanged the parts but I still have the board because it bugs me that I can't figure out what's wrong with it   

[Loki]

Keep the Cover On: Many people think that running the system with the case cover removed will improve cooling since the components are exposed to the outside air. In fact, this usually makes cooling worse (unless you have something silly like a big external fan blowing right onto the system unit, which is impractical, to say the least). When you remove the case, the air that the power supply fan is pushing out the back of the case is replaced by air drawn from the room instead of being drawn across the components. As a result, many components will sit in stagnant air and get little cooling.

I don't think this is true.
In my normal pc there is no way the power supply fan is giving enough airflow to make it cooler in my cab.
Last summer it was very hot here and my pc rebooted all the time cuz of the heat. When I removed the side of my case the temperature went down with 10 degrees Celsius.
Now I have to add the airflow sucks in my cab because I don't have any case coolers.

Anyway, what needs to be cooled is the CPU, GPU and chipset. It all gets cooled by it's own cooler, this warm air it produces needs to go out of the cab so it won't get "cooled" by hot air that stays in the case.
If there isn't a case, there isn't any hot air development ^^

[leapinlew]

Keep the Cover On: Many people think that running the system with the case cover removed will improve cooling since the components are exposed to the outside air. In fact, this usually makes cooling worse (unless you have something silly like a big external fan blowing right onto the system unit, which is impractical, to say the least). When you remove the case, the air that the power supply fan is pushing out the back of the case is replaced by air drawn from the room instead of being drawn across the components. As a result, many components will sit in stagnant air and get little cooling.

I don't think this is true.
In my normal pc there is no way the power supply fan is giving enough airflow to make it cooler in my cab.
Last summer it was very hot here and my pc rebooted all the time cuz of the heat. When I removed the side of my case the temperature went down with 10 degrees Celsius.
Now I have to add the airflow sucks in my cab because I don't have any case coolers.

Anyway, what needs to be cooled is the CPU, GPU and chipset. It all gets cooled by it's own cooler, this warm air it produces needs to go out of the cab so it won't get "cooled" by hot air that stays in the case.
If there isn't a case, there isn't any hot air development ^^

It's true...

Computers that are built by a company like Dell or Apple take air flow into consideration and design the cases to work best with the cover on and air being drawn in and exhausted where it's supposed to be. It may not be true with your computer you built yourself because you probably didn't handle the air flow correctly.

As a computer gets older and the airflow is decreased due to failing equipment or dust, the computer may run cooler with the case off but thats more of a work around than a fix. You should replace the fans and clean the airflow path.

[superbovine]

I thought it looked better without a big case in there for no reason... no problems with cooling either.  I had planned on adding a small (non-pc) fan to help circulate air, but it stays quite cool inside.

[MYX]

I asked the exact same thing in THIS thread. I finally decided to leave it UNCASED for several reasons. 1. better circulation. 2. Cabinet protects the board. 3. Once it is all set up, you really will not be messing with it (much). 4. It looks really cool. It has more of the feel of a real arcade machine. And really, what good is it if it doesn't look really cool. 

BTW, as to problems... I have had none with the mobo. My problem came into play because braniac plugged my IDE cable in upside down breaking one of the pins clean off. You wanna hard solder job, try soldering one of those suckers back on. (pin connection was under the circuit board.)  But back to the point... Being able to have my DVD/CD tray shoot right out the back end is great. VGA card and everything else stays connected just fine (which was my worry).

[Moose13]

So it looks like I'm going UNCASED....at least for now.
SO, another thought. Most pictures I've seen have the MB mounted vertically, anyone do it horizontally so that there wouldn't be a problem with the cards falling out (weight and gravity)? Maybe it's a dust issue with it horizontally?

[Teebor]

Mine is mounted Horizontally, just seemed better that way. to me at least 

The cards shouldn't fall out anyway, it would take some sort of interference to make them drop out, besides AGP and PCI-e slots have clips to hold onto the card. Other than that most everything is usually onboard these days

[MYX]

I would think that dust would be the enemy if you went hoz. I am shocked at how much dust I find in my cab when I think of how many places I made sure it was totally enclosed.
Also, while building, I can't tell you how many times I dropped stuff while putting the thing together. If you go hoz, you have a HUGE target sitting there. Most of which does not wish to be shorted out by a falling screw or otherwise. Also avoid the urge to put the mobo in first. 1, for the reasons I just mentioned, and 2, as soon as it is playable, the cab is done for a while. One more thing. I was super cautious while I was building. But this does not take mistakes out of the picture. Because my monitor was at an angle (laid back) I had to build a frame for it for mounting. One time I made a near critical mistake by removing a bolt to get access to a higher area. I totally forgot the order in which I put the frame together, pulled the bolt, and the while monitor (only connected at the front) swung backwards, eventually the narrowness of the cabinet cause it to stop it's arc. If the mobo had been in place it would have been sent into a brazillion pieces. (laid back monitors are not real common here so this probably is not even an issue, but it is more the point of the thing. Keep the delicates out until it is safe to bring em in.