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Author Topic: rotating monitor methods  (Read 5422 times)

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USSEnterprise

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rotating monitor methods
« on: February 14, 2007, 05:30:20 pm »
Finally getting going working on my cab again. It sits in my living room, empty and unpainted, and my parents either want me to finish it or throw it out. Because I cannot bear the thought of tossing it, (with the $100 in MDF already invested), I'm going to finish it.

Currently, I have a 17" Acer LCD that I plan on using as the main display. I have to use an LCD, because I already cut the cab shallow to fit where we want it to go. A CRT really wasn't an option.

Because I do enjoy a variety of different games, both horizontal and vertical, I want to make the monitor rotatable. How difficult is this to do? I've seen examples using casters and making the front of the monitor a disc, essentially. Is that the only method of making a rotatable monitor?
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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2007, 05:33:03 pm »
Finally getting going working on my cab again. It sits in my living room, empty and unpainted, and my parents either want me to finish it or throw it out. Because I cannot bear the thought of tossing it, (with the $100 in MDF already invested), I'm going to finish it.

Currently, I have a 17" Acer LCD that I plan on using as the main display. I have to use an LCD, because I already cut the cab shallow to fit where we want it to go. A CRT really wasn't an option.

Because I do enjoy a variety of different games, both horizontal and vertical, I want to make the monitor rotatable. How difficult is this to do? I've seen examples using casters and making the front of the monitor a disc, essentially. Is that the only method of making a rotatable monitor?

You could put 1 hand on one side of the monitor, another hand on the other and pick it up and turn it.

leapinlew

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2007, 05:33:25 pm »
You could also check out Cornchips build.... if your an engineer and own a machine shop - you can do what he did.

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2007, 06:01:13 pm »
You could mount it to a lazy susan and use those little cabinet bumpers to keep it in place. It's a manual solution that would also require you to use leapinlew's original suggestion.

http://www.thehardwarehut.com/catalog-product.php?p_ref=4536

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2007, 06:32:01 pm »
Edge used to have a page up where he had used some parts from Grainger.com to achieve something a bit more simple the chornchips build as well.  Here's a pic.. I'll be modeling my build after this method.


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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2007, 07:10:41 pm »
Edge used to have a page up where he had used some parts from Grainger.com to achieve something a bit more simple the chornchips build as well.  Here's a pic.. I'll be modeling my build after this method.

hey - someone remembered. :)

Yes - I have details on my rotating LCD engine that I can dig up if you are interested  My website harddrive unfortunately crashed a few months ago and I haven't had time to get it back up.

csa3d - I would love to see pics from your project.

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2007, 09:55:37 pm »
Edge

I have been avoiding the monitor part until I get the actual monitor, as I'm fairly certain any amount of planning is not going to be enough until I am holding all the parts.

My project page is here and be sure to check out the animated gif only imagine your technology underneith.  I emailed you a while back and you got me a list of part numbers.  Last we spoke, you were figuring out limit switches to have it stop automatically.  Did you ever finish that portion?

Also, I've noticed you've been quite active in Mala plugin land.  Any interest in sending a signal via parallel port or other so that the motor activates upon game launch then back upon exit.  That would be the cat's meow!!!

Let me know.  I'll be sure to post lots of details when I get this monitor in place.  Baby steps.. ;)

-csa

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2007, 02:27:14 pm »
Last we spoke, you were figuring out limit switches to have it stop automatically.  Did you ever finish that portion?
Nope - on the to do - but haven't had the time. I ran into a little mouse problem in my basement, so everything is chaos done there.  Need to fix that up before wifey "understands" how important it is for me to finish my autorotating, autostopping, arcade cabinet. geesh - women!

Also, I've noticed you've been quite active in Mala plugin land.  Any interest in sending a signal via parallel port or other so that the motor activates upon game launch then back upon exit.  That would be the cat's meow!!!
That would be a cool Mala plugin.  Once I finish v2 of the LEDWizard, I will look into it. :)

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2007, 02:39:36 pm »
I was considering using my 20" LCD and adding rotation capabilities and then decided on going for a much larger 26" LCD screen. No more need to consider rotation. My hats off to you guys though since I put a lot of thought into it myself and know first hand that it is quite a bit more work. Edge's version does look like a much simpler version on the surface but don't forget cornchip was rotating a monitor which required more robustness and horse power. Good luck with it.
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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2007, 03:52:30 pm »
(+_+) - Did you go with a 26" widescreen or 4:3 format?

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2007, 05:30:40 pm »


I built a rotating monitor in my cab (21 in. crt) - controlled through the parallel port.   The parallel port controls an h-bridge which controls the direction of motor rotation. (if one pin is high, rotate clockwise - if the other pin is high, rotate counter clockwise.) 
There are two limit switches - each switch is set up to interrupt the signal to the h-bridge to stop rotation, as well as set another pin on the parallel port so the pc can read when the limit is reached.  Another paralled port pin is attached to the monitors degauss circuit. 
I wrote a quick command line prg that you pass a few arguments to - which way to rotate, degauss at end of rotation or not, and a timeout in seconds, so the montitor will stop turning if there is a limit switch malfuntion.   You can use this from you desktop or call it from whatever to change the monitors orientation.

I also re-compiled mame to do this automatically based on the orientation of the game that's launched.

If any of this sounds like it might be helpful, let me know, and I'll pass on any info you may want.

Good luck!- I think the rotating monitor is awesome.

Koz


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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2007, 07:32:03 pm »
That's interesting. Can the monitor be rotated to all four directions, or just two directions and you use a setting to flip the video?

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2007, 10:05:00 pm »

Good point - I just have it set up so there are two orientations - vertical and horizontal.  If the monitors normal orientation is horizontal, it rotates 90 deg clockwise for veritcal, then 90 deg counterclockwise for horizontal again.  Any other variations need to be set individually thru the emulator.

I suppose it wouldn't be too hard to set it up for 4 orientations insetad of two.      You'd need a different limit switch setup,   and make sure your rotation logic was set up to return to a home position so you dont get your cables all twisted in a bunch doing multiple 360s.  Definitely doable if you think its worth the extra complexity.






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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2007, 01:56:05 pm »
What would you want it for? :dunno

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2007, 02:03:59 pm »
(+_+) - Did you go with a 26" widescreen or 4:3 format?

I went with an LG 26" wide. The screen is now almost as high as my 20" would be rotated to portrait mode. It will be great now for my 2 outer players since the viewing area is huge now. I tried my favorite games such as Robotron, Mutant Storm, RIP and many others and was very satisfied with the stretched image. I can also opt to not stretch and play the game as it should be with 2 narrow bars on each side, but so far I don't see the real need to. What's also good about this screen is I'll be able to take advantage of newer widescreen games.
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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2007, 03:12:48 pm »
I wouldn't bother unless you really had to have vertical games in the correct orientation.

I would figure how many vertical games are on my favorite list an go from there.  Motorized, lazy susans, bike tires, etc are great but is it worth it?  I hear that motorized rotation systems goof the LCD up and you have to degauss it everytime.

I have heard from several people who have rotated their monitors only for them to tell me it was a waste of time.  I wanted to rotate mine, but I play only a few vertical games.  Big deal.

I would get a pivot bracket, that way you would not spend too much time and money if it goes pear shaped, and these brackets cost less than $30.
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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2007, 03:20:58 pm »
I hear that motorized rotation systems goof the LCD up and you have to degauss it everytime.

I'm pretty sure you are referring to rotating CRT monitors.  LCD monitors do not degauss.

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2007, 03:39:16 pm »
I wouldn't bother unless you really had to have vertical games in the correct orientation.

I would figure how many vertical games are on my favorite list an go from there.  Motorized, lazy susans, bike tires, etc are great but is it worth it?  I hear that motorized rotation systems goof the LCD up and you have to degauss it everytime.

I have heard from several people who have rotated their monitors only for them to tell me it was a waste of time.  I wanted to rotate mine, but I play only a few vertical games.  Big deal.

I would get a pivot bracket, that way you would not spend too much time and money if it goes pear shaped, and these brackets cost less than $30.

I actually like more vertical games that I do horizontal, but my issue was that my absolute favorites of all time are horizontal (Robotron, Moon Patrol and Defender). I considered a rotating monitor briefly, but decided to just have 2 cabs. Its very cool when you have company over and both are going.

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2007, 04:54:10 pm »
I hear that motorized rotation systems goof the LCD up and you have to degauss it everytime.

I'm pretty sure you are referring to rotating CRT monitors.  LCD monitors do not degauss.

Yes well spotted.

 :cheers:
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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2007, 05:36:33 pm »

FWIW,  I think the extra effort put into rotating the monitor was totally worth it. 

Building the cab was as much fun as playing it is, so it really wasnt any extra 'work'.

I went with a 21" PC monitor in my current cab, I wanted the high resolutions for vector games.   I want to build another cab this summer with an actual arcade monitor, I'll probably set that one up to rotate as well.


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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2007, 06:22:40 pm »
You see, there are some horizontal games I really enjoy, like Marble Madness and Missile Command, while some of my other favorites, like Donkey Kong and Centipede are vertical. I am definitely going to use some type of rotation, and I have a plan utilizing an old turntable which may work, may not. I need to tru it out, and see if that old fisher turntable can move the weight of an LCD. Its direct drive, so there is a chance that it will work.
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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2007, 06:23:15 pm »
I built a rotating monitor in my cab (21 in. crt) - controlled through the parallel port.   The parallel port controls an h-bridge which controls the direction of motor rotation. (if one pin is high, rotate clockwise - if the other pin is high, rotate counter clockwise.) 
There are two limit switches - each switch is set up to interrupt the signal to the h-bridge to stop rotation, as well as set another pin on the parallel port so the pc can read when the limit is reached.  Another paralled port pin is attached to the monitors degauss circuit. 
I wrote a quick command line prg that you pass a few arguments to - which way to rotate, degauss at end of rotation or not, and a timeout in seconds, so the montitor will stop turning if there is a limit switch malfuntion.   You can use this from you desktop or call it from whatever to change the monitors orientation.

Koz:  Do you have any pictures of the rotating setup on these forums by chance?  I didn't see any linked to the Golden Ticket thread..

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2007, 06:31:53 pm »
Koz: especially if you go large, I'd like to see how you set up.

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2007, 10:23:08 pm »
I don't think I ever posted pics of the rotating setup... I'll check and see if I have any handy.  If not, I'll take a few sometime this weekend and post them. 

If I do another cab,  I'll probably stick with an arcade monitor in the 19-21 inch range (do they even make 20 or 21 in arcade resolution monitors?  I need to check).   The main reason is I want to keep the size of the cab as reasonable as possible, and to allow the monitor to rotate, you need to allow some additional width.  For my space, a cab set up to handle a 25 or so inch monitor would probably be bigger than I want.  (meaning I would no longer be able to fit it thru the door :) )


Just out of curiosity, what do you consider large? 

For my current cab,  I etched a simple board for the motor contoller at home.   If theres some interest,  I could probably get a few made at a boardshop for a couple of bucks each.   I dont remember the cost off the top of my head, but it couldnt have been more than 10$ for components, if that.   

Koz

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2007, 10:46:21 pm »
Awesome!  Can't wait to see this setup.  Sounds interesting.. board etching.. H-Drives... like pig latin to me  ;)  Hopefully a pictures says a thousand words.

-csa

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2007, 12:57:08 am »
By large I meant 25 to 27 inches.

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2007, 09:21:58 am »
Personally, I like to say it's not the size of your monitor, but more how you rotate it.  My wife might have other opinions...

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2007, 11:13:01 am »
I went with a post above.
Miltie arcades.
room is now a issue .Going with main TV witch is a 32"
I would go with a cocktail cab if I was to just build 1 cab
with 3 or 4 player CPs

most LCD monitors I have played with had a base that did flip.
I saw a cab posted with a large wooden disk. With cut outs on the sides of the cab. He just grabbed the wheel and turned it,
did not look all that bad to me.
other I have seen was the Basel was cut to pull out. You then just reached in and flipped the screen, Flip the glass and insert.

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2007, 12:49:37 pm »
I saw that first one.  Ick. If you're gonna do it, you might as well make it high speed.

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2007, 04:18:48 pm »
I just came into possession of a 21 Inch Sanyo TV from a pile of garbage curbside. Works great. Its very shallow, and I am looking into the possibility of using it in the cab with no rotation. When I was thinking of using a 17", it seemed necessary, but it doesn't anymore with the bigger screen.
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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2007, 08:20:22 pm »
It's all a matter of what you can settle for. After having a rotating 19 LCD, I can still enjoy playing a vertical game horizontal-ways on my 21" PC monitor....but it ain't near as cool as with it on its side! You could get two and build a two-piece, double-wide cab. I might do this...ahhh, the problem with having too many options, but not unlimited space and bank to just say, 'yeah, I want that!'

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2007, 09:34:25 pm »

You could put 1 hand on one side of the monitor, another hand on the other and pick it up and turn it.


not such a silly idea. ive seen at least one upright with an lcd that does this. it doesnt even have to rotate on a swivel. he just made it so that you pull it out of its bracket and then you just turn it 90 degrees...
« Last Edit: February 17, 2007, 09:47:41 pm by danny_galaga »


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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2007, 09:45:33 pm »
I built a rotating monitor in my cab (21 in. crt) - controlled through the parallel port.   The parallel port controls an h-bridge which controls the direction of motor rotation. (if one pin is high, rotate clockwise - if the other pin is high, rotate counter clockwise.) 
There are two limit switches - each switch is set up to interrupt the signal to the h-bridge to stop rotation, as well as set another pin on the parallel port so the pc can read when the limit is reached.  Another paralled port pin is attached to the monitors degauss circuit. 
I wrote a quick command line prg that you pass a few arguments to - which way to rotate, degauss at end of rotation or not, and a timeout in seconds, so the montitor will stop turning if there is a limit switch malfuntion.   You can use this from you desktop or call it from whatever to change the monitors orientation.

Koz:  Do you have any pictures of the rotating setup on these forums by chance?  I didn't see any linked to the Golden Ticket thread..

yes, post all this please! have you not noticed how stumped we are on how to automatically rotate with software? especially just by selecting a game.i know ive linked this a few times but wont hurt to again:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=32060.0

 that would be a brilliant addition to my machine (",)


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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2007, 04:24:56 am »
With an LCD I guess I wouldn't motorize it, but just rotate it by hand. Hmmm... where's that braincell if you need it... ah, yes. I dunno what kind of cab you're planning, but if it's a lowboy design you could simply 'lift' the bezel and rotate it :-)

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2007, 09:41:44 am »
yes, post all this please! have you not noticed how stumped we are on how to automatically rotate with software? especially just by selecting a game.

Agreed entirely!  The only thing I'm hesitant about after reading the description was that a custom Mame executable was recompiled.  As often as Mame is changing, this doesn't seem like an optimal solution.  I'd want my front end to be in charge of this process if possible, as it's not likely Mame Devs are going to make that a permanent feature.  Still interested in the process non the less.

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2007, 12:01:42 am »

You could put 1 hand on one side of the monitor, another hand on the other and pick it up and turn it.


not such a silly idea. ive seen at least one upright with an lcd that does this. it doesnt even have to rotate on a swivel. he just made it so that you pull it out of its bracket and then you just turn it 90 degrees...

Going that way, you could buy a rotating stand.  I like the powered version.

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2007, 02:39:07 am »
<Thinking outloud>
Could you use some of the outputs from an LedWiz to fire a relay that rotated your monitor until it hit some limit switches.
</Thinking outloud>

I don't know much about the LedWiz or the software available for it, but I had gotten the impression that people were having it do game-specific things when they launch a game from their frontend (illuminate the buttons used by a game for instance.)  If the LedWiz can do that, then there should be a way to use the orentation tag (or whatever it is) to send power out of some pins on the LedWiz that are then conected to some relays that control the monitor.

If somebody already has an LedWiz then this seems like a simple(ish) solution with out much cost for the interface.

Sounds promising to me, but what do I know?

Later,
Brian

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2007, 08:17:03 pm »
  It might be a question to ask Randy. The LedWiz can put out up to 500ma/output. A 5VDC relay typically might only need 60ma. Match that with a decent rating of 10amps (plenty) and you'd have something workable.

http://oeiwcsnts1.omron.com/marcom/pdfcatal.nsf/0/391BE930848E283386256FC700609BA6/$file/MJN+0906.pdf

Cornchip

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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2007, 06:58:55 am »
  It might be a question to ask Randy. The LedWiz can put out up to 500ma/output. A 5VDC relay typically might only need 60ma. Match that with a decent rating of 10amps (plenty) and you'd have something workable.

http://oeiwcsnts1.omron.com/marcom/pdfcatal.nsf/0/391BE930848E283386256FC700609BA6/$file/MJN+0906.pdf

Cornchip

the output is certainly no prob, besides you could use power transistors. but can you program the ledwiz to recognise horizontal/vertical games? thats the key...


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Re: rotating monitor methods
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2007, 07:09:50 am »
the output is certainly no prob, besides you could use power transistors. but can you program the ledwiz to recognise horizontal/vertical games? thats the key...

I've  been pondering this too.  The ledwiz as I understand, is set up to turn on lights, mainly to identify button usage.  I've never seen a button on an arcade light up telling the user they are playing a vertical game, so I'm too confused on how this would work.  Anyone with insight, do tell.  I always assumed I would need to beg someone from Mala Land to code me a plugin to fire off a signal.

-csa