groovy game gear components...

[fixedpigs]

i sent randy an email asking this a few days ago...but i have yet to hear back from him...so...

do i need this:
Opti-Wiz™ Trackball and Spinner Interface

if getting these:
TurboTwist 2™ Arcade Spinner Control
Electric ICE-T™ Deluxe RGB Arcade Trackball

thanks...!

[Kaytrim]

Both the TT2 master version and the Electric ICE-T come with an Opti-Wiz.  You don't need to get to buy one separately.  In fact if you buy both you might be able to get by with the TT2 Slave version and connect it to the Opti-Wiz on his trackball.  He should be by here later and be able to answer this better, he checks the boards almost daily.

[RandyT]

i sent randy an email asking this a few days ago...but i have yet to hear back from him...so...

Odd.  I sent off a response as soon as I got your email.  If you have a spam filter, make sure my responses are not blocked for some reason.

Kaytrim is correct.  Each of those devices have their own interface, and both can be device number 1.    This is the configuration I recommend for the best compatibility.

RandyT

[fixedpigs]

thanks kaytrim & randy...!

[fixedpigs]

randy...

can the ice buttons be ordered without the cherry switches...?

i think i want the buttons with the rgb-drive(the $5.20ish option) but i' like to use ponyboy's leaf switches...

thanks again...

[RandyT]

can the ice buttons be ordered without the cherry switches...?

i think i want the buttons with the rgb-drive(the $5.20ish option) but i' like to use ponyboy's leaf switches...

Yes, all items are available separately at the store.  You'll want the RGB drives as well as the Plain EI buttons.  There is no price difference.

RandyT

[fixedpigs]

ok...so i'm about to pull the trigger...i just want to confirm i haven't missed anything...

and just to verify...the keyboard can only be used when the switch on the keywiz is switched to 'keyboard' correct...?

thanks...!

[MYX]

15 RGB Drives will give you 45 output needs from the LEDWiz. There are only 32 outputs on the LEDWiz.
Plus you have to figure for amperage loss. If you fully load the LEDWiz you will also need a +5v power supply from the same PS as the computer. The USB Can not handle this much draw.

[Kaytrim]

The U360 joysticks have their own encoders and will connect via USB.  You can also connect them to the keywiz but you loose the mapping ability that makes those sticks so special.  If you want to use the U360 sticks to their full capability you will need to connect them via USB.

Two questions... 
Why are you wanting a Magstick along with the two U360s?
How many USB ports does your motherboard have?

I would suggest that you wait a bit before you make your purchase.  Randy is about ready to release a new joystick that could be in competition with the U360.  These joysticks would use a card that could possibly replace the keywiz you are planning on using.  I don't have all the information on this card so I may be completely wrong.  It may not be able to handle all the buttons you have planned.  But I do know that the new card should be able to handle two of his new joysticks.  See this thread for more information. 

[fixedpigs]

oh...i wasn't planning on putting the u360s through the keywiz...i guess i put them there to show what joysticks i was going to be using...sorry for the confusion...

my mb has four external usb ports...

i was thinking of the magstick for two reasons...
a) so i could have a physically restricted 4-way...
b) so i could have a joystick a little closer to the center of the cp...

so i would have to get two ledwiz devices in order to  have more than ten buttons controlled...?

and it's simple enough to have the ledwiz externally powered right...?

i like the idea of having the tt2 slave to the trackball...i suppose if i have compatibility issues i could always order the encoder board for the spinner...

thanks for the continuing discussion...

[Kaytrim]

You might not have a problem then with the U360s.  I have read on some threads that if you have more than one U360 they could have a different assignment after a reboot.  in other words the player 1 joy would become player 2 and vise versa.  With both of them plugged into the MB and not using a hub you should have no problem as long as you don't move the plugs around.  I know that Andy is trying to fix this but it only happens rarely.

You will need to connect the MagStick to the KeyWiz.  The player action buttons can be connected to the U360 for that player and your admin buttons can be connected to the keywiz.  The Opti-Wiz also has connections for up to 3 buttons so that is an option as well.  These would be recognized by the computer as mouse buttons and can be mapped in MAME.

Your assumptions on the LEDWiz are correct.  There is a connection point on the LEDWiz to accept an external +5V feed.  You can have multiple LEDWiz boards just make sure when you order to get two different device numbers so there is no conflict.

I would strongly suggest that you piggyback the spinner onto the trackball's opti-wiz.  You can put it on the Z axis.  That will free up a USB port for the second LEDWiz board.

With all that said I'd say that you are ready to go, unless you want to wait for Randy and his new sticks. 

[fixedpigs]

With all that said I'd say that you are ready to go, unless you want to wait for Randy and his new sticks. 

sooooooooooooooooooooo close to pulling the trigger...

i will wait to see what randy has for us with his new joystick...

[fixedpigs]

I would strongly suggest that you piggyback the spinner onto the trackball's opti-wiz.  You can put it on the Z axis.  That will free up a USB port for the second LEDWiz board.

With all that said I'd say that you are ready to go, unless you want to wait for Randy and his new sticks. 

so the spinner would need to be the following...?
- slave
- ps/2
- device 1

and i've been waiting...but my cab has been on hold since february...i think i'm just going to snag the u360s...-=\

[Chris G]

You still haven't ordered this stuff???  Man, you're worse than me... 

Not to contradict GGG Master Kaytrim, but back when I was asking these questions, Randy said he did not suggest going the slave spinner route if it could be avoided.  I believe he basically said the same thing above.  You can always buy another USB card if you need more slots.

[fixedpigs]

ok...so here is what i have in my cart as of this moment...

does everything look good...?

no incompatibilities or conflicts right...?

two ledwiz devices for what is essentially forty-five leds...one as device one and the other as device two...

trackball is ps/2...device one...(*edit* actually i have it as usb...should i have it as ps/2...?)

spinner is usb...device one...

thanks for any comments...!
 

[Tiger-Heli]

You might not have a problem then with the U360s.  I have read on some threads that if you have more than one U360 they could have a different assignment after a reboot.  in other words the player 1 joy would become player 2 and vise versa.  With both of them plugged into the MB and not using a hub you should have no problem as long as you don't move the plugs around.  I know that Andy is trying to fix this but it only happens rarely.

Kaytrim - I don't think that applies to the U360's.  That can be a problem when two devices use the same circuit controller (device driver), same USB controller (Pair of motherboard USB ports), and same USB Device ID (UID).

The UID for the U360's can be selected through software, so if you did have this problem, you should be able to re-assign one of them and be fine.

[Kaytrim]

Kaytrim - I don't think that applies to the U360's.  That can be a problem when two devices use the same circuit controller (device driver), same USB controller (Pair of motherboard USB ports), and same USB Device ID (UID).

The UID for the U360's can be selected through software, so if you did have this problem, you should be able to re-assign one of them and be fine.

You just now getting around to talking about this Tiger?  You're getting slow.   I was just going to post about this very thing and the list of items to be ordered from GGG.

ok...so here is what i have in my cart as of this moment...

does everything look good...?

no incompatibilities or conflicts right...?

two ledwiz devices for what is essentially forty-five leds...one as device one and the other as device two...

trackball is ps/2...device one...(*edit* actually i have it as usb...should i have it as ps/2...?)

spinner is usb...device one...

thanks for any comments...!
 

If you get the U360s make sure that they are plugged into separate paired USB ports.  You have 4 on your MB so you have two paired sets of ports.  A paired set will have one port on top of the other.  Next plug in the hub that you have on your list into the MB and plug in all the GGG USB devices into that.  Due to the amount of LEDs that you have you will need to supply additional 5v power to the LEDWiz boards.  Randy includes instructions on how to do that on his site and in the package with the LEDWiz. 

Otherwise you look good to go.  If you want to wait for Randy to release the GGG49-way sticks you could pick up two Happ Competition sticks to tide you over.  You won't have 4-way but they have similar action to the Midway 49-way sticks that I have.  Randy just posted an update today in the main forum stating that he hopes to release the new stick and interface soon.

TTFN
Kaytrim

[shorthair]

If you decide on comp tide-overs: you can have a restricted-function 4-way mode if you set mame properly. Once in the direction, desired, twice in the direction(s) not desired will yield: (for example) UP not RIGHT not LEFT.

[AndyWarne]

You might not have a problem then with the U360s.  I have read on some threads that if you have more than one U360 they could have a different assignment after a reboot.  in other words the player 1 joy would become player 2 and vise versa.  With both of them plugged into the MB and not using a hub you should have no problem as long as you don't move the plugs around.  I know that Andy is trying to fix this but it only happens rarely.

Kaytrim - I don't think that applies to the U360's.  That can be a problem when two devices use the same circuit controller (device driver), same USB controller (Pair of motherboard USB ports), and same USB Device ID (UID).

The UID for the U360's can be selected through software, so if you did have this problem, you should be able to re-assign one of them and be fine.

T-H is correct. The Ultrastik 360s can have individual IDs assigned and in fact must have for the mapping software to work properly. This problem won't happen.
Don't forget that you can connect 8 buttons to each U360 as well.
I don't think you would regret having the true analog capability of the U360s.

[Tiger-Heli]

You just now getting around to talking about this Tiger?  You're getting slow.  

Perhaps, (I think I missed the FEB posting until the thread bump. . . )  Do you have a link for the Kaytrim Kustoms?  OTOH, it bothers me that you still don't seem to be getting it.

If you get the U360s make sure that they are plugged into separate paired USB ports.  You have 4 on your MB so you have two paired sets of ports.  A paired set will have one port on top of the other.

No, as Andy said, the 360's can be in the same ports or any even a hub in the same port b/c you can (must) set a different UID for each one.

Next plug in the hub that you have on your list into the MB and plug in all the GGG USB devices into that.  Due to the amount of LEDs that you have you will need to supply additional 5v power to the LEDWiz boards.  Randy includes instructions on how to do that on his site and in the package with the LEDWiz.

No again, the LEDWiz's should NOT be plugged into the same hub and should be in separate ports, UNLESS you specifically order them with different UID's at the time of order.  These can NOT be set in software.  Same goes for the Opti-Wiz's as well, AFAIK, but don't quote me on that part.   

[RandyT]

Next plug in the hub that you have on your list into the MB and plug in all the GGG USB devices into that.  Due to the amount of LEDs that you have you will need to supply additional 5v power to the LEDWiz boards.  Randy includes instructions on how to do that on his site and in the package with the LEDWiz.

No again, the LEDWiz's should NOT be plugged into the same hub and should be in separate ports, UNLESS you specifically order them with different UID's at the time of order.  These can NOT be set in software.  Same goes for the Opti-Wiz's as well, AFAIK, but don't quote me on that part.   

Actually, you can connect several LED-Wiz's to the same hub.  But as Kaytrim stated, run the power externally. 

Multiple units must have individual ID numbers, and up to 16 can be used on one machine.  As a side note, I never thought that I'd see an installation using 16 units...turns out I was wrong.   A company in NYC is using 16 of them for lighting in a massive scale model.  I'd love to see it, but I'm sure it's a private project for one of their customers.

Also, multiple Opti-Wiz boards should have their own IDs.  However, an Opti-Wiz, TurboTwist2 and Electric ICE trackball are all different devices, even though they use similar firmware.  These can all be device 1 without any issues.  Only select device 2+ if you are installing multiple units of the same type (e.g. more than one TT2, etc.)

RandyT

[Kaytrim]

Do you have a link for the Kaytrim Kustoms? 

Not yet, I still need to finish my current projects including some home improvement ones.  I also want to build a sample or two.  However I am open to orders and inquires.  It would help the wife unit accept the hobby.

No, as Andy said, the 360's can be in the same ports or any even a hub in the same port b/c you can (must) set a different UID for each one.

If Andy has fixed this issue then great.  Though it would be a nice service to the customer if they were pre-programmed like Randy does his encoder cards.  This is meant as a suggestion not a negative comment on Andy and his stuff.

No again, the LEDWiz's should NOT be plugged into the same hub and should be in separate ports, UNLESS you specifically order them with different UID's at the time of order.  These can NOT be set in software.  Same goes for the Opti-Wiz's as well, AFAIK, but don't quote me on that part.   

Randy has dealt with this one.

[AndyWarne]

If Andy has fixed this issue then great.  Though it would be a nice service to the customer if they were pre-programmed like Randy does his encoder cards.  This is meant as a suggestion not a negative comment on Andy and his stuff.

Its not really a case of "fixing" the issue as there was no issue in the first place.
At the design stage I thought about whether to fix the IDs and pre-assign, and certainly having software-assignable IDs was technically not easy to do. But I thought it would give maximum flexibility.
It means a bulk user can order many sticks without having to pre-plan how they will be used. Also, unlike encoders, the sticks come in various colors so that multiplies up the variants which need to be kept in stock. Programming each one at ship-time is not a very scalable solution. But I will think about whether it can be done.
Andy

[ahofle]

If Andy has fixed this issue then great.  Though it would be a nice service to the customer if they were pre-programmed like Randy does his encoder cards.  This is meant as a suggestion not a negative comment on Andy and his stuff.

Why would you want them pre-programmed like that?  Allowing you to change them via software is much more flexible.

[Kaytrim]

If Andy has fixed this issue then great.  Though it would be a nice service to the customer if they were pre-programmed like Randy does his encoder cards.  This is meant as a suggestion not a negative comment on Andy and his stuff.

Its not really a case of "fixing" the issue as there was no issue in the first place.
At the design stage I thought about whether to fix the IDs and pre-assign, and certainly having software-assignable IDs was technically not easy to do. But I thought it would give maximum flexibility.
It means a bulk user can order many sticks without having to pre-plan how they will be used. Also, unlike encoders, the sticks come in various colors so that multiplies up the variants which need to be kept in stock. Programming each one at ship-time is not a very scalable solution. But I will think about whether it can be done.
Andy

I guess I am missing the boat here.  I remember several threads a few months ago that were about problems with the U360 sticks being remapped after a reboot.  Joy 1 now player 2 and vice versa.  This was due to Windows not being able to tell the difference between two devices with the same ID.  What was the answer to the problem?  I'd like to know what the proper solution is so I don't mislead anyone else on this.

Thanks ,
Kaytrim

[Tiger-Heli]

No again, the LEDWiz's should NOT be plugged into the same hub and should be in separate ports, UNLESS you specifically order them with different UID's at the time of order.  These can NOT be set in software.  Same goes for the Opti-Wiz's as well, AFAIK, but don't quote me on that part.   

Actually, you can connect several LED-Wiz's to the same hub.  But as Kaytrim stated, run the power externally. 
Multiple units must have individual ID numbers . . .

Actually, that's what I said above, but I might not have worded it as clearly.

Also, multiple Opti-Wiz boards should have their own IDs.  However, an Opti-Wiz, TurboTwist2 and Electric ICE trackball are all different devices, even though they use similar firmware.  These can all be device 1 without any issues.  Only select device 2+ if you are installing multiple units of the same type (e.g. more than one TT2, etc.)

That's the part I was unclear on.

[Tiger-Heli]

If Andy has fixed this issue then great.  Though it would be a nice service to the customer if they were pre-programmed like Randy does his encoder cards.  This is meant as a suggestion not a negative comment on Andy and his stuff.

Totally disagree here.  It is great to have the flexibility to set a UID to whatever you want it in software.  I wish RandyT's devices had this feature.  This is meant as a suggestion, not a negative comment on GGG and their stuff.

[Tiger-Heli]

I guess I am missing the boat here.  I remember several threads a few months ago that were about problems with the U360 sticks being remapped after a reboot.  Joy 1 now player 2 and vice versa.  This was due to Windows not being able to tell the difference between two devices with the same ID.  What was the answer to the problem?  I'd like to know what the proper solution is so I don't mislead anyone else on this.

I don't know Kaytrim.  I don't remember those threads so all I can do is speculate.  However, there are two situations where I can see this being an issue.

1)  If someone installed their U360's, plugged them into a hub or the same motherboard pair of ports, but didn't bother to program them or set a UID, I (think?) they would both work and default to UID1.  The first one plugged in would be Joy1 and the second would be Joy2, but this order could swap on reboot.

2)  If someone were building a desktop CP, (almost mis-spoke here) - I think MAME assigns devices in the order installed and then the order it finds them taking UID into account.  So if stick 1 is UID 1, Stick 2 is UID 2, Stick 1 is plugged into the hub first (first new device installed), and then Stick 2 is plugged into the same hub and the hub is mounted into the desktop CP, everything should work fine (One USB cable to connect and disconnect).  If no hub in the desktop CP, and separate USB cables are used, either one could be plugged in in any order without problem.  However, if stick 1 were not plugged in, but stick 2 was, MAME would see Stick 2 as Joy 1 until stick 1 was plugged in, then Stick 1 would be Joy 1 and Stick 2 would shift back to Joy 2.

I think all that was correct.  I haven't tried this and UrebelScum (and Krick) are really the "experts" on this.  

[Kaytrim]

1)  If someone installed their U360's, plugged them into a hub or the same motherboard pair of ports, but didn't bother to program them or set a UID, I (think?) they would both work and default to UID1.  The first one plugged in would be Joy1 and the second would be Joy2, but this order could swap on reboot.

2)  If someone were building a desktop CP, (almost mis-spoke here) - I think MAME assigns devices in the order installed and then the order it finds them taking UID into account.  So if stick 1 is UID 1, Stick 2 is UID 2, Stick 1 is plugged into the hub first (first new device installed), and then Stick 2 is plugged into the same hub and the hub is mounted into the desktop CP, everything should work fine (One USB cable to connect and disconnect).  If no hub in the desktop CP, and separate USB cables are used, either one could be plugged in in any order without problem.  However, if stick 1 were not plugged in, but stick 2 was, MAME would see Stick 2 as Joy 1 until stick 1 was plugged in, then Stick 1 would be Joy 1 and Stick 2 would shift back to Joy 2.

I think all that was correct.  I haven't tried this and UrebelScum (and Krick) are really the "experts" on this.  

This helps.  I think that the issue was the first one you mentoned.  Newbees that didn't following directions. 

Thanks,
Kaytrim