RandyT, when are we getting the new 49-ways?

[JMB]

I would love to see a product announcement, but I will settle for some more info.  New features? Pics? ETA?  You have been teasing us since September http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=57699.msg567871#msg567871

I will not even mention the dancing led-wiz even though I would love it for a juke!

[RandyT]

Would you believe that just when I thought it was done, I thought of another unique feature for the interface (just last night, in fact)? Right now I am battling the implementation, but I can guarantee that it hasn't been done yet on a 49-way and It should increase playability for a number of games.  I just have to squash a couple of bugs.

The standard GP-Wiz49 interface basically had 1 piece of data to be sent to it, and that data contained the info about the mode to use and the type of stick that was being used.

The upcoming interface has a map dump mode and 8 other parameter sets (maybe 9 before I am through).  More modes, programmability, and a few new features I can't talk about yet.  2 sticks on a single interface (at least that is the goal.....it's working under 2K, but hasn't yet been tested on other systems)  Had to give up the button based mode selection and the shifted buttons feature, but software will fill in those needs.  I will most likely make a single stick version with the same advanced features, higher performance and more buttons.  The dual interface was based on an economy goal, not an optimum design choice.

The stick is done, but I am holding off release until the interface is ready.  It won't be cheap, with the base model starting at $59, but it is based on a $25 [my cost] frame and loaded with custom parts.  It's one of those "spare no expense" projects.  On the other hand, existing 49-ways, including the modified ones, will work with the new interface, so the high-end stick won't be a necessity to take advantage of the other features.

The software also needed to be re-written to support everything.  But I won't delay things to make some of the new features "pretty" like the rest of the software.  Probably just a simple interface to get the job done and the fancy graphics will have to come later.   

Again, sorry for the constant delays, but this project is one that I want to make sure is everything it can be.

I will not even mention the dancing led-wiz even though I would love it for a juke!

I really wish there were three more of me sometimes.......   But I hear HeadKaze made something similar for GameEx.  You might want to take a look at it in the meantime.

RandyT

[JMB]

It's one of those "spare no expense" projects.

RandyT

Those are the best kind of projects. 

Thanks for the update.  I will continue to impatiently wait. 

[Kaytrim]

Hey Randy,

Any chance slipping in one of those prototype boards in my order?  You know that I have the old 49-way sticks and Windows XP.    I volunteer for testing duty.  Or better yet how about a swap when the new boards are ready?

TTFN

[MYX]

Hey Randy when you speak interface, do you mean on screen interface or GPWiz interface? If this is a Wiz change...I bought the GPWiz MAx because of the upgrade situation that happened a while back. With the new interface, is this just a chip change?

[Kremmit]

I thought of another unique feature for the interface (just last night, in fact)

More features?  Will it make my coffee, too?

[RandyT]

Any chance slipping in one of those prototype boards in my order?  You know that I have the old 49-way sticks and Windows XP.    I volunteer for testing duty.  Or better yet how about a swap when the new boards are ready?

I suggest a few days wait....I can put your order off until I have a unit ready.  It should be very soon now.

Hey Randy when you speak interface, do you mean on screen interface or GPWiz interface? If this is a Wiz change...I bought the GPWiz MAx because of the upgrade situation that happened a while back. With the new interface, is this just a chip change?

Yes, it is.  I think a $7.95 upgrade (inlcudes shipping) will be offered to those who want the features of the new hardware.  There will be no upgrade path with the Eco units, MAX's only.

More features?  Will it make my coffee, too?

Not till it gets done making mine.  But yes, it's one you don't even know about yet!

...aforementioned bugs are squashed....VirtualAnalog™ operation is currently functional

RandyT

[Kaytrim]

PM sent Randy. 

[Kaytrim]

  Progress report please. 

[MYX]

Perhaps, I am being rude (not meaning to be) and I can't speak for Randy, but Randy will sell it when it is done. He makes good stuff and wants to make sure he has it right before letting it out. This stuff takes LOTS of time and the guy is busy. But I promise when it is ready he will let you know. There is usually a really nice announcement with pretty pictures to boot.

[steveh]

I dont believe you MYX i think he wont let any one know. 

[Kaytrim]

I just got a reply via PM from Randy.  Real life, taxes and compatibility issues are delaying the the new interface.  I am not worried about the quality of the interface because I know that Randy will not release something that is only half working.  I am usually patient on these things and I understand the issues of software development. I was just curious on the progress because the last thing I heard from him is that he was close to being done.

TTFN 
Kaytrim

[MYX]

I dont believe you MYX i think he wont let any one know. 

[steveh]

Randy,

I hate to be one of "those guys"  I am now at the stage where i am trying to decide what i want to do for control's  i plan to be building once it warms up over here.  Do you have any info available about the sticks you are working on.  I am trying to keep the costs down, but i need to figure out what joys i was going to use,  and what encoders to go with them.  It would be great to know what it is you have in store for us, and if possible an eta. 

[RandyT]

I hate to be one of "those guys"  I am now at the stage where i am trying to decide what i want to do for control's  i plan to be building once it warms up over here.  Do you have any info available about the sticks you are working on.  I am trying to keep the costs down, but i need to figure out what joys i was going to use,  and what encoders to go with them.  It would be great to know what it is you have in store for us, and if possible an eta. 

I can't give an ETA.  Only that it will be done ASAP.

The software to configure the stick is now where the time is being spent.  Because there are so many features, I wanted to make an OCX to base the software on.   This will make it simpler to program for this (and future) interface(s) and hopefully speed integration into 3rd party apps.  This is proving a bit of a challenge, but finding the time is the main issue.

I finally buttoned the firmware code up (again) after adding in a few more pre-defined DRS modes.  I entertained the notion of dropping the originals in favor of new ones, but I had room for them on the device, so they are all there (effectively ~19 in total).  This took some time to do, but  that is done and I finally can't think of anything else to include...unless I think of a couple more modes between now and release time.

The other thing I will say is that much effort has gone into integration of the rotary option on this setup.  Similar to what's been around for a while, but completely re-designed to address some issues of the past.  I can say with confidence that I believe this setup will be one of the best all-around performance systems available, with the real gaming innovation people have come to expect from GGG.

RandyT

[steveh]

Sweet.  Do you have a price point you are planing them to be at? or does that still have to be worked out.  (i need to know if these are going to kill my budget or not)

[Kaytrim]

The other thing I will say is that much effort has gone into integration of the rotary option on this setup.  Similar to what's been around for a while, but completely re-designed to address some issues of the past.

Is this rotary setup something that I can add to my Midway 49-way sticks?  Or am I going to need a different stick to have the rotary option?  Time Solder, Heavy Barrel and other games like them were some of my favorites.   If I can get DRS and rotary functionality all in the same joystick I'll be singing your praises forever. 

TTFN 
Kaytrim

[Havok]

VirtualAnalog™ operation is currently functional

RandyT

Do I smell a U360 competitor?

 

[Kaytrim]

I just found the adaptors

fl0yd makes them.  I sent him a PM asking if he is still in business because the last post on the thread was back in 2005.  http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=35533.0

His adapter calls for "Druin's Rotary adapter".  After some searching I found that these are no longer being produced but Ultimarc has a rotary joystick interface.  $27 to handle two sticks and connects via USB.

Randy does your new interface handle direct connection to a rotary switch or do I need some kind of interface?

[ahofle]

I would be highly surprised if Randy's new stick required you to buy some old adapters for the rotary function.  My guess is that everything you need will be built in.

[RandyT]

I would be highly surprised if Randy's new stick required you to buy some old adapters for the rotary function.  My guess is that everything you need will be built in.

Ahh, you know me too well.  There will also be a twist or two that you haven't seen before (no pun intended.)

But it won't be in the stick, per se, rather in the interface.

RandyT

[RandyT]

VirtualAnalog™ operation is currently functional

Do I smell a U360 competitor?

I hope so, but it won't be only due to this feature.  If one places a high value on true analog, then that is what they will need to get.  However, if one just wants a number of analog games to play better with a 49-way, I believe this will help quite a bit.

RandyT

[JMB]

All your snow must be melted by now.  Any updates?

[Kaytrim]

I almost brought this thread back to the top myself a week or two ago but I resisted.  Now that someone else has chimed in I will ask again as well.  Randy how goes the upgrades?  It has been a couple of months since we heard anything and I have a sneaking suspicion that you will have something to release soon.

My lips are sealed as to what and when because I don't know.  LOL

[edge]

I was on vacation for the last week... I got back this morning... I just logged on here and the first thing I scanned for was any "Product Announcements" form RandyT.... hahaha...

I am eagerly awaiting the new sticks as well.

[fjl]

Randy, on the original thread you put up this vid, http://www.groovygamegear.com/LED_Wiz_Music.mpg

Where those sticks the new 49 ways? And is it possible to have those transparent ball tops have RGB LEDs inside of them so they too flash with different colors just like the butons? I saw someone set up their LED wiz so only buttons used with the selected game will light. I'd like to be able to do this with the joystick as well since there are games that don't even use buttons like Robotron. So if both joysticks light up when Robotron is selected then any person trying out the game for the first time will automatically know that they will have to use both joysticks to play.

I'm almost about ready to start purchasing my arcade hardware. I was originally going to get the U360's but have also heard of 49way sticks. What exactly are 49 way sticks and are they better than the U360s? And will this new 49 way stick you are working on, will it be better for my arcade system than the U360s? The reason, I went with the 360s in the first place was that it can be automatically set to configure itself(4 way, 8 way etc.) to whatever game I'm playing via the frontend allowing me to play a greater range of games with a single joystick. Will this also hold true with the new 49way joysticks?

[RandyT]

Randy, on the original thread you put up this vid, http://www.groovygamegear.com/LED_Wiz_Music.mpg

Where those sticks the new 49 ways? And is it possible to have those transparent ball tops have RGB LEDs inside of them so they too flash with different colors just like the butons? I saw someone set up their LED wiz so only buttons used with the selected game will light.

Yes, those were the sticks.  But the shafts are too thin in some spots to make them hollow, so no direct illumination will be possible for these currently.  However, a hole drilled into your panel at just the right angle with a narrow beam LED inside would probably get the idea across.  Think spotlight illumination

I'm almost about ready to start purchasing my arcade hardware. I was originally going to get the U360's but have also heard of 49way sticks. What exactly are 49 way sticks and are they better than the U360s? And will this new 49 way stick you are working on, will it be better for my arcade system than the U360s? The reason, I went with the 360s in the first place was that it can be automatically set to configure itself(4 way, 8 way etc.) to whatever game I'm playing via the frontend allowing me to play a greater range of games with a single joystick. Will this also hold true with the new 49way joysticks?

The GP-Wiz49, coupled with a 49-way joysticks were the first to ever offer this functionality, so yes .   Which one you find to be "better" than the other will be a very subjective decision.  The rubber centering grommet of the 49-ways, as used with the original WICO sticks, will be enough to sway many due to the familiar "old school" feel it can provide. 

My apologies again for taking so long with this.  I have shifted gears several times on the packaging, mainly in an attempt to see if backwards compatibility was possible.  I have several things brewing, one of which is nearing release.  So there will probably be one or two things between now and then.

RandyT

[fjl]

Yes, those were the sticks.  But the shafts are too thin in some spots to make them hollow, so no direct illumination will be possible for these currently.  However, a hole drilled into your panel at just the right angle with a narrow beam LED inside would probably get the idea across.  Think spotlight illumination

Interesting, but I don't really like that idea. Perhaps some kind of ring that goes around the outside of the frame of the joystick on the top of the control panel that lights up would be a cool add on.

The GP-Wiz49, coupled with a 49-way joysticks were the first to ever offer this functionality, so yes .   Which one you find to be "better" than the other will be a very subjective decision.  The rubber centering grommet of the 49-ways, as used with the original WICO sticks, will be enough to sway many due to the familiar "old school" feel it can provide. 

My apologies again for taking so long with this.  I have shifted gears several times on the packaging, mainly in an attempt to see if backwards compatibility was possible.  I have several things brewing, one of which is nearing release.  So there will probably be one or two things between now and then.

RandyT

So when will we see these new fangled 49 ways? Come on, I'm very close and ready to buy my hardware and I'd like to compare to see what I should get. 

Keep up the good work RandyT 

[fixedpigs]

after waiting on the ggg sticks since february...i'm about two buy two u360 joysticks...

unless something happens rather soon with these...

any updates...?

 

[RandyT]

Yes.  I switched gears on the firmware design.   I was hoping to have a cheaper version of the interface for just operating the sticks and few buttons, but have been plagued by issues with the development hardware.  Dealing with the large corporation who provides the chips and the development platform has been excruciatingly slow.  The fact that I lost many hours of work on the firmware due to a hard drive crash didn't help either.

So while all of this has been going on, I decided that backwards compatibility with existing software, and getting this project done,  was more important than the arrangement I was using previously.  The new QD board style (it does more than DB-25's) is also slated to be used with the new interface and input reorganization was necessary.   I've also just ordered small PCB's to facilitate building the rotary add-on option.

The project is very much in motion, but so are others at the same time.  The release of the KeyWiz-QD was just the first of several items that will be coming along shortly, and hopefully the GGG49 will be included in that group.

RandyT

[Tiger-Heli]

The project is very much in motion, but so are others at the same time.  The release of the KeyWiz-QD was just the first of several items that will be coming along shortly, and hopefully the GGG49 will be included in that group.

Sounds familiar for you!!! 

[Kaytrim]

Randy you have said more about the stick publicly in this one post then ever before.  You must be really close to release.  Just make sure you have a stockpile of ready devices prior to announcement or you will run out in a day or two.

TTFN
Kaytirm

[fjl]

Hmm, kind of sounds like you might end up rushing the GGG49 sticks. And I wouldn't want an unfinished or not not completely tested stick. Perhaps I should just finally break down and get the U360 sticks.

Got my tax refund. Gonna use it to order the parts, finally!

[Kaytrim]

Hmm, kind of sounds like you might end up rushing the GGG49 sticks. And I wouldn't want an unfinished or not not completely tested stick. Perhaps I should just finally break down and get the U360 sticks.

Got my tax refund. Gonna use it to order the parts, finally!

Don't bail on Randy yet.  I anticipate that we will be seeing these new sticks this summer as well as a bunch of new stuff to spend our $$$ on. 

Kaytrim

[RandyT]

Hmm, kind of sounds like you might end up rushing the GGG49 sticks. And I wouldn't want an unfinished or not not completely tested stick.

No, just the opposite.  If I were "rushing it", they would have been available long ago.

RandyT

[Aurich]

From what I've seen Randy say publicly it sounds like the U360's and the new 49's are going to be different enough that you should probably choose on feel, not release date.

For instance, most U360 users seem to want a pretty short throw, I've heard some people say the restrictors aren't even tight enough for them, and almost everyone at least seems to be using the restrictors, while the rubber spider for a 49 means a longer throw (according to Randy IIRC) with a different feel because of the rubber. Randy, correct me if I'm mis-stating anything about a product I haven't seen.

Personally throw is super important to me, it's one of the key aspects of liking/hating a stick. That's what I would choose on.

[AndyWarne]

Octagonal restrictors are currently in production for the UltraStik 360 for those who like a shorter throw. The injection molds have already been made, just waiting for actual molding.
Andy

[NoOne=NBA=]

while the rubber spider for a 49 means a longer throw (according to Randy IIRC) with a different feel because of the rubber.

That depends on what you are comparing it to.
The Williams sticks have a significantly shorter throw than the Happ/Midway 49-ways.

You can do a BYO restrictor using acrylic, but you'll lose some resolution.
It just bolts onto the bottom of the stick over top of the metal piece shown below.

[RandyT]

From what I've seen Randy say publicly it sounds like the U360's and the new 49's are going to be different enough that you should probably choose on feel, not release date.

For instance, most U360 users seem to want a pretty short throw, I've heard some people say the restrictors aren't even tight enough for them, and almost everyone at least seems to be using the restrictors, while the rubber spider for a 49 means a longer throw (according to Randy IIRC) with a different feel because of the rubber. Randy, correct me if I'm mis-stating anything about a product I haven't seen.

Personally throw is super important to me, it's one of the key aspects of liking/hating a stick. That's what I would choose on.

Nope, you have it correct, except for the "spider" part.  The new stick will use a rubber grommet like the WICO leaf-based sticks did, but the same sentiment applies.  The feel, the look and the rotary option will be the things that differentiate it.  Nothing feels quite like a good rubber grommet joystick, especially for the classics. 

RandyT 

[Aurich]

Nothing feels quite like a good rubber grommet joystick, especially for the classics. 

Just my point, your sticks will have a totally different feel. Choice is a good thing.

Octagonal restrictors are currently in production for the UltraStik 360 for those who like a shorter throw. The injection molds have already been made, just waiting for actual molding.

I get a % on those right? The sad thing is my cab is still waiting for paint so you'll have the real thing ready to order before I've had much wear and tear on my hacked ones.

[shorthair]

Octagonal restrictors are currently in production for the UltraStik 360 for those who like a shorter throw. The injection molds have already been made, just waiting for actual molding.
Andy

How short?

[AndyWarne]

Octagonal restrictors are currently in production for the UltraStik 360 for those who like a shorter throw. The injection molds have already been made, just waiting for actual molding.

I get a % on those right? The sad thing is my cab is still waiting for paint so you'll have the real thing ready to order before I've had much wear and tear on my hacked ones.

Yes, 100% hehe.

The octagonal restrictors measure 20mm across at the widest point. The regular round ones 22mm. For an exact angular measurement I will need to wait until they arrive unfortunately.

I received an email today asking why I did not name the UltraStik 360s a 4294967296-way stick as thats what they are! Well to be more accurate thats what they are "internally" before scaling and mapping. When sending to the PC they are a 65536-way stick.

Andy

[shorthair]

The octagonal restrictors measure 20mm across at the widest point. The regular round ones 22mm. For an exact angular measurement I will need to wait until they arrive unfortunately.

I received an email today asking why I did not name the UltraStik 360s a 4294967296-way stick as thats what they are! Well to be more accurate thats what they are "internally" before scaling and mapping. When sending to the PC they are a 65536-way stick.

Andy

That's all I needed to know, Andy, thanks. And, not all permutations are non-trivial.

[Aurich]

The octagonal restrictors measure 20mm across at the widest point. The regular round ones 22mm. For an exact angular measurement I will need to wait until they arrive unfortunately.

That's from "corner" to "corner" right? Because the shaft won't go all the way into the corner, the diameter will meet resistance before that. So it's going to be effectively even shorter of a throw.

Are these based off of the ones I used for my hack or your own dimensions?

[fjl]

All, right I'll get these 49 ways whenever they are available. For now I suppose I'll get some Super Joysticks to tide me over. Just wondering though, once I cut out the base for the Super Joystick, will these new 49 way sticks also be able to fit into the same base or will they be different?

[steveh]

Hey Randy any updates on these ?