Some questions from a complete r-tard

[asker]

I've been looking through all the FAQs I could find but couldn't find answers to all my questions.

So, I'm thinking of building this arcade, mainly to use with Golden Tee Golf PC. What I want is a trackball working as the mouse of the computer and two buttons working as mousebuttons. To make it more versatile, I will also add two joysticks with 4 buttons each. What I put on my order list so far:

I-PAC 2 Interface
Opti-PAC Interface

SUPER JOYSTICK,4&8 WAY BRACKET ,HUB,SUB ASSY BLACK SHAFT x 2
TRACKBALL ASSY 3" GREEN TRANS TRANSLUCENT HIGH-BALL STD HARN
3" TRACKBALL (HIGH BALL) MNTG KIT BLACK WITH HARDWARE

ULTIMATE PUSHBUTTON x 12

Now to the (probably silly) questions:

1) Will the trackball work as a mouse, and will I be able to get two buttons connected to work as mousebuttons? If so, to what interface will I connect those buttons?

2) I'm not really clear on the meaning of the 4/8-way joystick, other than that it only reads X directions. What happens if I push a 4-way joystick diagonally, or is that physically impossible due to how the joystick is constructed? What about an 8-way-joystick being pushed in a direction other than the regular 8? Is the actual joystick pushable in 360 directions?

3) I understand the I-PAC emulates keyboard button presses. Will there ever be a problem where too many buttons are pressed at once so that other button presses are ignored?

4) This is perhaps the silliest question, but I can't find any answer to it that I understand. How do I connect the interfaces to the computer? What cables do I need? Will the computer identify the interfaces automatically (ie, will it think the trackball is a mouse by default)?

I'm sure there are more questions to be answered and I'll post them as they pop up.

Another thing; as a veteran forum lurker, I know the default way of treating new users with stupid questions is "lol, read FAQ!". I did and couldn't find any exact answers to these exact questions. IF there in fact are answers, post me the URL and I'll look into it.

English isn't my native language, so be gentle with me.

[shardian]

1) Yes. The trackball will hook up to the optipac and be recognized as a mouse in windows. You could get a trackball that is already wired up to plug directly into the computer, like a Betson Imperial Ps/2 trackball. This would simplify your wiring ALOT, and you wouldn't need the optipac anymore.

2) The Super joystick has a rotatable restrictor on the bottom. You have to get under the control panel to switch it from 4 way to 8 way. In 4-way mode, the joystick will still go to the diagonals, but no switches will be depressed - thus a dead spot will occur. Not optimal in a 4-way game, but works in a pinch.

3)No. What you are describing is blocking. The IPAC does not suffer from this.

4)The IPAC comes with a ps/2 cable and it simply plugs into the keyboard port. The pc will recognize the IPAC as a keyboard. With ps/2, you have to have the cord plugged in before the pc is powered up for it to be recognized. Same thing for the opti-pac. It plugs into the mouse port on the pc.

Good luck.

[leapinlew]

lol, read FAQ!

Just kidding!

1) Will the trackball work as a mouse, and will I be able to get two buttons connected to work as mousebuttons? If so, to what interface will I connect those buttons?

yes

2) I'm not really clear on the meaning of the 4/8-way joystick, other than that it only reads X directions. What happens if I push a 4-way joystick diagonally, or is that physically impossible due to how the joystick is constructed? What about an 8-way-joystick being pushed in a direction other than the regular 8? Is the actual joystick pushable in 360 directions?

The super is either a 4 way, or an 8 way. There are 4 switches on the bottom. In 4 way mode, only 1 switch at a time can be activated. If you push a joystick in 4 way mode to a diagonal, you'll activate 1 of the 2 switches. In 8 way mode, you'll activate both switches.

3) I understand the I-PAC emulates keyboard button presses. Will there ever be a problem where too many buttons are pressed at once so that other button presses are ignored?

no - push as many buttons as you want.

4) This is perhaps the silliest question, but I can't find any answer to it that I understand. How do I connect the interfaces to the computer? What cables do I need? Will the computer identify the interfaces automatically (ie, will it think the trackball is a mouse by default)?

The ipac hooks up via USB or PS2 (depending on which model you order). I've used both with no problems. I'm not sure about the Optipac, but I believe it operates the same way. The computer will automatically recognize these devices as input controllers.

[javeryh]

Welcome!  I'll try to help...

1) Will the trackball work as a mouse, and will I be able to get two buttons connected to work as mousebuttons? If so, to what interface will I connect those buttons?

Yes.  There are 4 button inputs on the Optipac if I remember correctly which you can also connect to the iPac so you don't have to put separate buttons on your control panel - they are very customizable.

2) I'm not really clear on the meaning of the 4/8-way joystick, other than that it only reads X directions. What happens if I push a 4-way joystick diagonally, or is that physically impossible due to how the joystick is constructed? What about an 8-way-joystick being pushed in a direction other than the regular 8? Is the actual joystick pushable in 360 directions?

With the joysticks you chose you will probably be physically restricted due to a restrictor plate or something.  If you get something like the Ultimarc 360 you can program different maps so even though you won't be physically restricted you can still tell the joystick what to do when pushed in a given direction.

3) I understand the I-PAC emulates keyboard button presses. Will there ever be a problem where too many buttons are pressed at once so that other button presses are ignored?

Nope.  

4) This is perhaps the silliest question, but I can't find any answer to it that I understand. How do I connect the interfaces to the computer? What cables do I need? Will the computer identify the interfaces automatically (ie, will it think the trackball is a mouse by default)?

The iPac and Optipac can be connected by USB or by a PS2 cable.  The computer should automatically recognize everything but there are drivers you can load too that come with the iPac and Optipac if that doesn't work.  The first time I tried hooking all this stuff up I had ZERO trouble and I had no experience with wiring or computers or anything...

Good Luck!  

[asker]

Thanks alot guys!

I'm still confused about the mouse buttons. Does the opti-pac support buttons? If so, does the buttons hooked up to the opti-pac work as mouse buttons?

[shardian]

You probably would want one of these to simplify things:
ebay link to happ ps/2 trackball with extra button wiring

[asker]

You probably would want one of these to simplify things:
ebay link to happ ps/2 trackball with extra button wiring

My first choice would be the high ball. I also try to buy my stuff from serious retailers since I live in Sweden and want minimal chance of screw-up.

[shardian]

Fair Enough.
Official Happ Controls 3" usb/ps2 trackball

Or you could talk to Divemaster and see what he could do for you.

[u_rebelscum]

Does the opti-pac support buttons? If so, does the buttons hooked up to the opti-pac work as mouse buttons?

Yes.  Yes.

Think this way: Optipac tells the computer a "normal" mouse is connected.  "Normal" as in mouse with buttons, whether or not you physically hook up any buttons to the optipac.  If you don't, the computer just thinks that no buttons from that mouse are ever pressed.


And personally, I prefer optipac, optiwiz, or mouse hack over any of the "PC" TBs shardian linked.  Easier to replace parts means easier to upgrade and fix (see thread about a master board of a PC TB frying to see one case).  (It's rare that you need to, though.)  The optipac & optiwiz interfaces also give you more options with a second mouse or Z axis, respectively.  And unless the PC version is on sale, it's more expensive than getting the arcade TB + external interface. 

However, as shardian said, getting a PC TB does simplify things.  [shrug]  Just letting you know the options and risks.

[asker]

Thanks for the advice rebelscum. I will most probably get an opti-pac.

Are there any difference in how the computer detects USB-deviced between connecting them directly to the computer as opposed to connecting it through a USB-hub?

[FrizzleFried]

You can get a 3" Happ trackball...in your choice of colors...translucent or not...with a USB interface and the ability to hook up to 3 buttons that work as your 3 mouse buttons...for $82.99 plus shipping and handling here:

http://www.tornadoterrys.com/surplus.htm

...and that INCLUDES the mounting plate as well...which a lot of people charge extra for! 

I have used Tornado Terry 5 different times thus far and each time has been nothing but a pleasure.   As a matter of fact,  I purchased my translucent blue trackball from him,  and just today had a package with 2  "super" joysticks with aftermarket red ball shafts and 7 buttons arrive.  I ordered Monday.   Not bad.

Tell `em Jon "FrizzleFried" sent ya...

[asker]

Since the trackball will be the main attraction of this arcade, I'm fairly sure I will go for the High-ball version from Happs. This version however is harder to find at other sites, especially one with cables already connected.

I also want to minimize the number of sites I have to order from, since shipping costs can get pretty hefty. Therefore, I would need to place my order from a site where I can get most of the stuff I need.

[ahofle]

As far as I have been able to find, the highball is not available with the USB interface.  You have to get the encoder yourself if you want a highball.  That said, I have a highball TB and optipac and I love it compared to the regular Happs TB.

[asker]

As far as I have been able to find, the highball is not available with the USB interface.  You have to get the encoder yourself if you want a highball.  That said, I have a highball TB and optipac and I love it compared to the regular Happs TB.

By encoder you mean something like optipac, right?

[sphetr2]

You can get a 3" Happ trackball...in your choice of colors...translucent or not...with a USB interface and the ability to hook up to 3 buttons that work as your 3 mouse buttons...for $82.99 plus shipping and handling here:

http://www.tornadoterrys.com/surplus.htm

...and that INCLUDES the mounting plate as well...which a lot of people charge extra for! 

I have used Tornado Terry 5 different times thus far and each time has been nothing but a pleasure.   As a matter of fact,  I purchased my translucent blue trackball from him,  and just today had a package with 2  "super" joysticks with aftermarket red ball shafts and 7 buttons arrive.  I ordered Monday.   Not bad.

Tell `em Jon "FrizzleFried" sent ya...

*sigh* Oh, how I wish his website wasn't web 1.0. He has a header 'Parts' that's size 108 or something. And his Caps lock seems to be stuck. It's like a used car salesman's website. He might as well have it hosted on geocities!

But I do like the stuff he has and will be ordering from him. 

[FrizzleFried]

I agree the website is asstastic,  but the dude ships SAME DAY (or the next at most)... can't ask for more.   I have gotten 4 sticks from him,  4 round top shafts,  trackball,  too many buttons to count....all arrived within 5 days of ordering...all arrived packaged nicely....and all work great.

If you want to pad your ebay feedback,  he also offers most of his stuff there as well.

[Kaytrim]

As far as I have been able to find, the highball is not available with the USB interface.  You have to get the encoder yourself if you want a highball.  That said, I have a highball TB and optipac and I love it compared to the regular Happs TB.

By encoder you mean something like optipac, right?

You got it.    Encoders take the input from one type of device, in this case a trackball and translate it to something  a computer can understand, a mouse.  A keyboard encoder will take joystick signals and button presses and translate that into key pressed that a computer can understand.  The computer then passes this information on to MAME to get the actions you want with the game.

[u_rebelscum]

Are there any difference in how the computer detects USB-deviced between connecting them directly to the computer as opposed to connecting it through a USB-hub?

No and yes.   

Going through a hub, the computer has to detect the hub first before the devices on it.  Some cheap hubs have problems if different version (2.0 vs 1.1) then the USB port on computer.  Then there are wall powered and non-powered hubs, and non-powered sometimes give problems (with high powered or a few low powered devices).  But if everything is working as they should, you won't notice a difference.

[miles2912]

If you want to save some $$ get a mini-pac.  It will do everything you need but cheaper.

Don

[Kaytrim]

Are there any difference in how the computer detects USB-deviced between connecting them directly to the computer as opposed to connecting it through a USB-hub?

No and yes.   

Going through a hub, the computer has to detect the hub first before the devices on it.  Some cheap hubs have problems if different version (2.0 vs 1.1) then the USB port on computer.  Then there are wall powered and non-powered hubs, and non-powered sometimes give problems (with high powered or a few low powered devices).  But if everything is working as they should, you won't notice a difference.

Thanks for the clarification rebel.  This narrows down the problem for me.  I thought it was all USB hubs that had problems.  Guess I should stop buying cheep USB hubs and go with the powered models.

[asker]

If you want to save some $$ get a mini-pac.  It will do everything you need but cheaper.

Don

Looks more complicated and I only save 9 dollars. I think I better go with the two interfaces since I think I understand how they work now.

[ArtsNFartsNCrafts]

question:  will a happ track ball work with an opti-pac? tornado terry deals the happ trackballs, right?

[ahofle]

Yes it will, but only if it's not a USB trackball (which already has an encoder built in).

[BobA]

If you want to save some $$ get a mini-pac.  It will do everything you need but cheaper.

Don

Looks more complicated and I only save 9 dollars. I think I better go with the two interfaces since I think I understand how they work now.

It has got to save you more than just $9.   

An Optipac and Ipac2 cost $78 plus shipping

Minipac with no harness $29 plus shipping
Contrary to what some people will say there is only one minipac board.  How you wire it up enables you to use the trackball/spinner part.