Best joystick for SCHMUPS?

[Doom bucket]

I've seen joysticks rated based on their compatibility with different genres such as fighting games and such. But not so much with SCHMUPs. Which joystick would be the one to go with for say, Ikuraga?

Also, are trackballs smaller than 3 inches too small? I don't see non 3 inch trackballs included in many people's arcade cabinets, but the control panel I am making simply wouldn't be able to fit one, period.

[ahofle]

I've seen joysticks rated based on their compatibility with different genres such as fighting games and such. But not so much with SCHMUPs. Which joystick would be the one to go with for say, Ikuraga?

I'm sure destructor or kowal will be here shortly to help you there.

Also, are trackballs smaller than 3 inches too small? I don't see non 3 inch trackballs included in many people's arcade cabinets, but the control panel I am making simply wouldn't be able to fit one, period.

It's really personal preference.  I prefer the 3 inch simply because I feel that I can control it better.  There is nothing wrong with a 2 1/4" trackball though and if that's all you can fit, I would certainly go with that rather than no trackball at all. 

[Doom bucket]

sorry for the off-topic question but

Although some encoders that I have looked at are compatible with the dreamcast(or sell optional adapters for it) I am still a little worried... could 8-way directional joysticks even replace the little analog stick on the dreamcast controller, or even work for any of that need it?

[destructor]

I've seen joysticks rated based on their compatibility with different genres such as fighting games and such. But not so much with SCHMUPs. Which joystick would be the one to go with for say, Ikuraga?

I'm sure destructor or kowal will be here shortly to help you there.

1. P360, best if modified actuator, spring and handle. I have modified actuator and my hanlde is shorter version slikstik. Kowal has modified all 3 things.

2. Suzo Inductive.

Other joysticks can be compared to these 2 for shmups games.
Maybe when Andy will found good spring for U360 then his stick can be good too, but not now.

Rates (1-10):
P360 mod - 10
Suzo Ind. - 10
U360 - 7
Sanwa JLW - 6
Seimitsu LS-32, LS-40 - 6.5
T-Stik - 7
Mag-Stik - I didn't know, maybe kowal will say something here

[NiteWalker]

Seimitsu LS-32.

[destructor]

Seimitsu LS-32.

My post above edited

[NoOne=NBA=]

I'm still partial to Wico leafswitch sticks.
You can tune them to get exactly the feel you want on them, and they do nice smooth circles.
I don't like corners on SHMUPS.

The P360s are nice if you modify the actuator, which is basically the same tweak as adjusting the leafswitches.

[Minwah]

I reckon J-Stiks are good thanks to their light quick action.  Stating the obvious somewhat, but a lot of Japanese cab schmups use these/similar sticks.

[DarkBubble]

sorry for the off-topic question but

Although some encoders that I have looked at are compatible with the dreamcast(or sell optional adapters for it) I am still a little worried... could 8-way directional joysticks even replace the little analog stick on the dreamcast controller, or even work for any of that need it?

No.  If you want analog, stick with a pad or build a Hall Effect interface for the Happ 49-way stick.  You can hack a standard stick to work the analog, but all you're going to get out of it is eight directions and the effect of pushing the analog to maximum.

[RandyT]

1. P360, best if modified actuator, spring and handle. I have modified actuator and my hanlde is shorter version slikstik. Kowal has modified all 3 things.

2. Suzo Inductive.

Other joysticks can be compared to these 2 for shmups games.
Maybe when Andy will found good spring for U360 then his stick can be good too, but not now.

Rates (1-10):
P360 mod - 10
Suzo Ind. - 10
U360 - 7
Sanwa JLW - 6
Seimitsu LS-32, LS-40 - 6.5
T-Stik - 7
Mag-Stik - I didn't know, maybe kowal will say something here

Hey destructor!

I always see you and Kowal chiming in as joystick authorities, yet you never mention the 49-way / GP-Wiz49 combo.  Have you ever tried this combo?  It's amazingly smooth and controllable, much like an  original WICO due to the rubber centering grommet. 

If you haven't given this combo a run, you don't know what you are missing for SHMUPS.

RandyT

[destructor]

Hey destructor!

I always see you and Kowal chiming in as joystick authorities, yet you never mention the 49-way / GP-Wiz49 combo.  Have you ever tried this combo?

I didn't test it. No money for it now. Maybe in future. Or maybe someone near Poland want to send this combo to me or kowal for test?

[kowal]

I had not 49, but  some men tell 49way has very large throw. You can measure throw? engagement be regulated -from this what I know.
Best throw for shmups 4-8mm, engagement 3-4mm. Above throw 8 mm ang engage 4mm larger values influence on game negatively.
someone will say that 1mm does not act difference. 1mm this so small distance that almost imperceptible. But this 1mm in percentages is big difference. Suzo inductiv has ideal parameters throw 5mm engagement 3mm.
throw:
Suzo inductive 5mm-100%
LS32 6,5mm-130%
Competion 12mm-240%
engage:
Suzo Inductive 3mm-100%
LS32 - 4,5mm -150%
Competion 7mm-233%

obviously these are only numbers, do not give back true workings but they inform about speed.
electronic joysticks they are better from mechanical (microswitches) for shooters

[RandyT]

I had not 49, but  some men tell 49way has very large throw. You can measure throw? engagement be regulated -from this what I know.
Best throw for shmups 4-8mm, engagement 3-4mm. Above throw 8 mm ang engage 4mm larger values influence on game negatively.
someone will say that 1mm does not act difference. 1mm this so small distance that almost imperceptible. But this 1mm in percentages is big difference. Suzo inductiv has ideal parameters throw 5mm engagement 3mm.

"Throw" is based on a number of factors.  The biggest one is from where on the stick you are measuring it.  The very top of the handle?  The base of the handle?  Closer to the shaft?  Everyone will have their own preferred "grip" on a joystick, so this facet is exceptionally difficult to quantify.

However, based on a quick, 3x averaged sample of the 49-ways on my machine and taken at the major diameter of the ball-top, I am seeing about 4.6mm to actuation of cardinal directions in the GP-Wiz49 8-way mode.

Like I said, I don't think you two guys know what you are missing

electronic joysticks they are better from mechanical (microswitches) for shooters

No argument

RandyT

[kowal]

real travel (mm or inch)

the point of reference, the edge of knob is in the widest place ( the diameter) the joystick

angle of inclination (degrees)

The angle of inclination (degrees) is the universal measurement, but it does not take into account the length of stick. Real road in mm or inch is better information (for players)


throw (maximum road in direction)
engage (maximum road to registering movement)

I am seeing about 4.6mm to actuation of cardinal directions in the GP-Wiz49 8-way mode

probably you write about engagement improvements me if I make a mistake

short throw acts how max speed in cars
short engagement how acceleration in cars
shumps are how F1. you must have fast car and large acceleration

[destructor]

Yes, this is no argument I don't know why but I feel sure in shmups games when use joystick with no microswitches With microswitches sometimes my moves are not smooth.

I'm very interesting what construction was in joystick when I played on arcade cabinets. I remember that this joystick was excellent for airshooters (it was about 14 years ago ). For sure in this joystick was red ball-top.

angle of inclination (degrees)

Otherwise there is method for better measuring angle than this showed by kowal. Second method measure angle as from center of rotary.
Kowal know it

[kowal]

microswitch has physical limitation, cliques on second - c/s.
example -SAIA XGG2 are very slow microswitches. Saia X3C can do more clicking on second. Electronic joysticks have not this limitation. The speed of centring to center is the only limitation. Microswitch must to have, place to withdrawal plunger, additional degree. It on electronic joysticks it possible to stop on border of engagement. Additional place was not one needed on withdrawal plunger. If you stop on border, you can with gentle movements get autofire. It was it been possible in this way more exactly to move on small distances about pixel on screen.  Useful when you scraping bullets (danmaku shooters)
hard to explain. .