Waranty returns - is this reasonable?

[diverdown]

Just a question.... I am not going to mention company names because it is not relevant. (besides I like the stuff and don't want to "hurt" the company in question.
First some background

I bought three electronic items from a well known company of BYOAC.

In the first week I found a problem with one item.  I sent it back and it was replaced without a problem.  The original postage was essentially "express"  and it arrived to me in Australia within about a week. I paid postage back to the company, which cost me $10.

The item was replaced but was returned "economy". This took about 3 weeks.


Soon after it was returned another item (not the replaced thing but another thing) was found to be faulty. I was not aware of the fault earlier as i could only use the 2nd thing once the 1st was replaced.

I returned that ($10 more in postage costs.)  It has been a few weeks since I was informed the replaced item would be shipped back to me.......via economy. It has not returned yet and I can still not play any games....



My question is this

Is it unreasonable to expect that the returned item be sent "express" ?

 I think it should be sent back the same way I paid for the first postage... in this case express.

I guess if the people from that company ever read this they will know their business practices and will know how you feel on the topic. This may get them to change their ways (unless you guys think it is reasonable).

please bare in mind that there is a significant difference in postage times when sending internationally between economy and express.... If it was a few days i wouldn't care.

[HaRuMaN]

Personally, I would expect express shipping for the replacement, too.

[CheffoJeffo]

I don't think it is unreasonable to ship back economy, as for most orders that won't cause any significant hardship. OTOH, with you being in Australia and the company being far from there, that does cause a difficulty in terms of timing.

OTOH, since most folks providing us with products in this fine hobby are not doing it fulltime and we are lucky to have them,I always feel that we need to cut them as much slack as we can.

You don't state if you had a conversation about return shipping with the company -- their response and the options offered are the items of interest here.

Cheers.

[Lilwolf]

It kind of sticks.  Many companies will return items at the speed you sent it to them....

but...

1) Most companies here don't make all that much.  Its a hobby.  So the first time an item is sent back (minimum shipping) they are probably loosing money.  Sure they want people to think good things from them.  But just remember... this is a hobby.

2) Its a game for you.  Its not a life saving heart, or an item thats keeping a company down... or anything like that...  Your forced to play games with a keyboard and a mouse for a few weeks...

but that being said.  it still sucks a bit... but I think its acceptable.

[shardian]

I feel that since you received two different products that were defective, you are due some sort of compensation. Most likely, I think you should have been reimbursed for return shipping on the second faulty product.

A great company will offer compensation before you even ask if you have been inconvenienced to the point of compensation. If not, then most of them will work with you if you bring it to their attention. They won't know how upset you are unless you tell them about it. Most importantly for you though, you should always discuss this with the seller before dragging it out into public view. I am glad you at least didn't name names, but there are only so many vendors around here and you basically just implicated them all.

i hope you get this worked out and that this thread dies a pieceful death.

[CheffoJeffo]

I feel that since you received two different products that were defective, you are due some sort of compensation. Most likely, I think you should have been reimbursed for return shipping on the second faulty product.

For a high-volume or high-margin seller, I would agree with this. However, in the niche that is this hobession, that may not be economically feasible.

Some will say that "if you can't back it up then don't sell it" and that may seem reaonable. Right up to the point where the vendor decides not to offer anything because they aren't making money at it.

How many vendors have we lost because they can't make money in this niche market (and I am looking at arcade vendors in general, not just the custom control folks that are popular here on BYOAC) ? I have at least two projects that will suffer because the vendors who offered the stuff I need have packed it in. I have another project where I will be buying the required part ASAP because the vendor has packed it in but still has stock.

If we want to continue to have products available to us, we need to be prepared to accept that these folks are doing their best (for those that ARE doing their best and I see no indication that the vendor in question isn't) and providing us wih cool stuff for not a lot of money. Accordingly, we need to accept the economic realities that they face.

Further, this situation is "rare" in that the buyer is so far away and shipping is so expensive. It is likely that the vendor has already lost money on this transaction and quite possibly is considering not continuing to ship so far to prevent future losses. And then people would be upset with them not shipping to Australia.

It may suck, but it sucks a lot less than the alternative.

Cheers.

EDIT: I should say that some vendors pack it in because they don't have the time, which is, unfortunately, another reality we must accept.

[shardian]

Our vendors do have low volume sales - which means it is definitely more important to make every customer happy. As we all know, it doesn't take much to set off a boycott around here. It is part of business that every-once-in-a-while you will take a hit. In low volume sales, one happy customer on here who has a bragging story can lead to much more business for the vendor.

[CheffoJeffo]

Our vendors do have low volume sales - which means it is definitely more important to make every customer happy. As we all know, it doesn't take much to set off a boycott around here. It is part of business that every-once-in-a-while you will take a hit. In low volume sales, one happy customer on here who has a bragging story can lead to much more business for the vendor.

At this point, we should remember that the vendor HAS made good and has sent replacements in what appears tobe a very timely manner. This is a good vendor behaving appropriately.

There are some unfortunate realities about the OP having to wait due to shipping halfway across the world, but i don't see any reason to label this vendor as anything but great (e.g. for not offering additional compensation).

Cheers.

[ChadTower]

And no one has mentioned the actual value of the items.  A couple of $25 items, expect the service you are getting, which is sufficient.  A couple of $250 items, I would expect express shipping.

It sucks, but if you order something from the other side of the planet, this is a known risk.  I've encountered more vendors that will say "forget it, I'll just issue a refund" at best in this situation than vendors that would handle multiple returns.

[diverdown]

And no one has mentioned the actual value of the items.  A couple of $25 items, expect the service you are getting, which is sufficient.  A couple of $250 items, I would expect express shipping.

It sucks, but if you order something from the other side of the planet, this is a known risk.  I've encountered more vendors that will say "forget it, I'll just issue a refund" at best in this situation than vendors that would handle multiple returns.

The Items were both worth more than $50 US each (and even more to me given the exchange rate). The vendor, I don't believe does this as a hobby........ too much great stuff designed and made by them.

I agree with the comments above, If it was a backyard salesman I would not think otherwise.

i don't necessarily agree that I should ask for it to be sent back express....... that's part of customer service...... The first time i didn't ask because it never occurred to me...... the second time was following many emails back and forth stating I was still waiting for the first to be delivered..........so the company knew it took ages.

Thirdly I actually asked if the company wouldn't mind  to please give me a quote on shipping it back as well as a forth item I was considering buying...... They gave no discount on the return shipping (even though I was doing them a service by letting them combine my return with a new item).
I actually would go so far as to say that if an item is returned due to manufacturing fault then the postage costs i incurred should be refunded, given that I have spent enough once over in postage to pay for another of the items in full.


Lastly  The company and products they sell are Great.
The service is great
This would not stop me buying from them in the future.
I think if I had asked then it may have been sent back express......I don't necessarily think that is the point.

this thread was more to allow companies that browse these threads to see what "the customer feels" with regards to postage etc.

I don't want to implicate any company in this thread... That was not and is not my intention.


happy gaming

(knowing my luck the thing will arrive in today's post)

[Fozzy The Bear]

I think you got very reasonable service.

1) As people have pointed out, the company in question would not have sent faulty items out intentionally in the first place, it's not in their interests to do that.

2) The markup on items sold by companies in very small volume to people like us is very small. Nobody is getting rich on it.

3)  If you had checked all your items before shipping the first one back, then you'd only have had one lot of postage and so would they.

4) Your order has probably cost them money as a result of the additional postage costs to them.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[RandyT]

I'm sorry you had difficulties and hope you get through them ok.  But I just want to say...

It wasn't me!

There, I feel much better now.....


RandyT

[Mr. Greenjeans]

3)  If you had checked all your items before shipping the first one back, then you'd only have had one lot of postage and so would they.

I was not aware of the fault earlier as i could only use the 2nd thing once the 1st was replaced.

[PoDunkMoFo]

My opinion is that a public forum is not the place to try and handle the problem especially if you have had no discussion in attempt to resolve the problem.

Please don't take this as a flaming but all you accomplish with this tactic is general mistrust of all the suppliers we have come to love.  I point you to the Groovy Game Gear post above.  He was obviously concerned that your post might make people think he was the seller you hinted at.  We still don't know who you had the problem with and someone new to the hobby might now be worried about whatever product they were going to order.

Again please take this with no malice but you could have accomplished far more, with the time you have spent, by directly contacting the supplier and trying to resolve the issue.

Good luck in future purchases.

[diverdown]

Thanks Mr. Greenjeans

and PoDunkMoFo
 I know I could have, with that company

It was not a go at that company just a way of highlighting to all companies what consumers expect.

Fozzy
 If a company  lost money on a sale of faulty items - ----- I dropped $20 because they sold faulty items.

I guess what got me into this mood was that after I asked for the quote to get an aditional item sent back with my replaced one I was given a quote...(with no discount) The next day I recieved an email saying I had been misquoted and the postage was actually $5 more......

I've vented

and now off my 

To all newbies out there (and I am very much one) Please don't be put off by this thread.... I have recieved great products from all over the world. The service and quality(even from this company) are fantastic.

The biggest problem I have now Is i have to wait till christmas to open a package from RandyT............bloody christmas fairies got to the mailbox before me...

[Fozzy The Bear]

Fozzy
 If a company  lost money on a sale of faulty items - ----- I dropped $20 because they sold faulty items.

Read it again... That's exactly what I said.

On top of that, you specifically asked for an opinion.... If you don't like reading the opinions you get then don't ask for one. Not everybody in this life will always agree with you.

My opinion on this one is that you don't have anything to be moaning about. The company in question sorted your problem out for you. These things sometimes happen, and that's not anybody's fault.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[diverdown]

Fozzy your Opinion taken with the good intent.
 I have no problem with your or any one's opinion. My OP was just asking a question. It didn't flame a company, just asked for others feelings.
I originally deleted the bit in my post where i have put ----------.  That more or less originally said  If a company lost money on the sale of faulty items "its their problem not mine for selling me faulty items " I dropped $20 because they sold me faulty stuff etc........

From the posts above I guess I should expect not to get original method of shipment back on faulty goods. I hope this doesn't mean I get surface mail (3months return) if this is the way businesses operate.

I again have great respect for all companies assosciated with BYOAC.  This hasn't changed.

again im off my 

Please everyone enjoy christmas. I hope you all have a better new years eve than I will ( I get to spend 1700-0700Hrs dealing with drunks and patching up assaults.

(that last bit was just to get some sympathy)

[Fozzy The Bear]

Please everyone enjoy christmas. I hope you all have a better new years eve than I will ( I get to spend 1700-0700Hrs dealing with drunks and patching up assaults.

You have a good Christmas too mate.... You have my sympathy, I'm in a similar boat... Except that in an Arcade I get to spend New Years Eve dealing with Drunks and Being Assaulted.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[MYX]

You know, I have a couple of thoughts here.
1. If it is a defective item, the company could send you a new product with a return shipping slip included in the box. Then if they want to send it back economy, no big deal.

2. If it is a mom n pop shop, then the volume should be low enough that they could at least do some quality control before the stuff ever goes out the door. I think 2 minutes of time would be worth more than the hours of frustration trying to make the thing work and finding out that it is a dud, then having to go throught the wait for the next item to get there, having to cough up more money that you did not intend to put into this very expensive hobby (and I thought golfers were nutz). A vender could built a test rig for most of their products (especially items 50$ and above) and test the stuff. Plug Play Done...Happy customer. 2 minutes of time vs. another X amount of dollars for shipping multiple times seems like a better idea. You are eating into what ever profit you have made.

Jus my $.02

[diverdown]

I dont want to bump this thread but i like your $0.02
especially #1

I had an issue with an xbox years ago. They sent me out a return bag which was collected by a courier. It was returned same way......This would have cost way more to them than it did selling off a shelf in a store.

[lloydcom]

I had a similar problem with a company we shall call company X.  They had a lifetime warrany on all their products.  It's packaged right on the box.  The item is available all over the planet. 

One day the unit failed.  I contacted company X to be told that the unit I bought (in the UK) was only warranty'd in the USA.  If I wanted another unit I would have to buy another one.

Back and forth the emails went, to no avail.  I contacted the company's sales manager (or so he said he was) for company X, and he caved into one solution.  I had to pay $14.00 via paypal, and the shipping of the item to company X and back.  For which I could buy two units for the same money.

Since the product was still in waranty I complained about their customer service to several registered distributors of the product that was within earshot.  One of them took pity on me and replaced the unit free of charge.

So it goes to show, that Company X might have a good review and an excellent product, but when it comes to waranties..... 

Read the fine print, and get an ultraviolet light for the magic ink they use when they tell you the warranty is good only in the USA.   

[MYX]

I would fight that, then I would find a lawyer friend that could write up some really legal sounding mumbo jumbo and send it to them. I thought that the whole NAFTA thing was supposed to protect against that sort of shenanigans.

[acevedor2]

  alert

I guess I have to respectfully disagree with the notion that he has been made whole - he has not been - At a minimum he is out 20 bucks in shipping the items back, not to mention the inconvenience.  It is a sad state of affairs (in many industries, not just the arcade retail industry) that we should be happy that a company is selling to us at all.  That is essentially what many posts above have said.

I understand that no company would deliberately send you a defective product.  That said, once they do, it is up to the company to do everything possible to correct the deficiency and make you a satisfied customer.  That includes paying for return shipping and expediting the faulty product's replacement. 

Yes, this would likely cause the vendor to lose money on the sale.  That is the cost of doing business and providing a high level of customer service.  I think too often we buy into the notion that - " I am just lucky he is selling that to me."  It's ok if customer service stinks or the product is overpriced.  You see it everyday from car sales to electronics.   

As a result, customer service has become a rare commodity in many cases.  Again, this is not an attack against the particular company here. It is instead a wake up call to all who believe that as long as they provided a replacement they did good. 

We will not get customer service unless we demand it.  And we demand it through the use of our dollar, yen, deutsch marc, etc.  In nearly EVERY field of retail, including the arcade retail, there are alternatives.  Yes it hurts when a vendor goes under and our field of choices is therefore diminished, but it is a sacrifice I am willing to take in order to demand quality service.

Ok, I am off the soap box now.  I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas. Cheers

[CheffoJeffo]

Yes, this would likely cause the vendor to lose money on the sale.  That is the cost of doing business and providing a high level of customer service.  I think too often we buy into the notion that - " I am just lucky he is selling that to me."  It's ok if customer service stinks or the product is overpriced.  You see it everyday from car sales to electronics.   

Since this one was pretty clearly aimed at my comments ...

I do not typically "buy into the notion", however, there are a number of instances in this hobby where we ARE lucky and some vendors operate at a close-to-break-even range (if that). Hang around a while looking for that elusive part or watch the vendor who sold a part you wanted/needed close up shop and you will understand what I am talking about.

The OP asked if the service he received was REASONABLE ... the answer is yes. Yes, he is out the return shipping and the time (and that sucks). If he had bought in a store, he would be out gas and (signficantly less) time. The fact that it is around the world is the primary contributing factor here and is unfortunate.

There are vendors who provide unparalleled service and, by all means let's support the heck out of them. I notice that you chose to support a vendor wth a dismal service record and even worse customer relations attitude, paticularly hostile towards members here  ... it makes your whole rant ring a bit hollow.

You mention that there are always alternatives, and this is not always true, although it may be for your project. While YOU may be willing to sacrifice vendors to get better service (in which case, you had better send that SlikStik spinner back right now, mister!), I am not willing to sacrifice those vendors who provide reasonable service and provide valuable parts and services.

Cheers.

EDIT for spelling

[acevedor2]

There are vendors who provide unparalleled service and, by all means let's support the heck out of them. I notice that you chose to support a vendor wth a dismal service record and even worse customer relations attitude, particularly hostile towards members here  ... it makes your whole rant ring a bit hollow.

Just a couple of notes:

I will continue to support ANY vendor who provides me a quality product and quality customer service.  In the case of SLIKSTIK, this is only a sample size of one.  I have received one product from them, and the service was very good.  I didn't research them before I ordered through them so I guess I got lucky.  That said, if I fail to receive the same level of service in the future (as many have indicated with regards to that particular vendor) then I will cease doing business with them.

I by no means intended to "rant" and I hold absolutely no ill will to any member of this forum.  In fact, in the short time I have been on this particular forum I have found the knowledge and friendly demeanor of the members to be without reproach.  I am grateful to be a member of this community.

All of that said, I have VERY strong opinions on customer service, or the lack thereof, that has become so prevalent.  I just think many retailers take it for granted.  They expect the customer to "suck it up."

I wanted to wish everyone a very happy Holiday Season.  Be safe and have a wonderful Christmas.  Cheers.



 

[CheffoJeffo]

All of that said, I have VERY strong opinions on customer service, or the lack thereof, that has become so prevalent.  I just think many retailers take it for granted.  They expect the customer to "suck it up."

I agree with all of this, BUT within this niche market things are a little different. You seem to attribute delays and less-than-ideal service to attitude and that does not always apply.

If you look at vendors who have long turnaround times and missed customer expectations, Clay Cowgill and Classic Playfield Reproductions spring to mind ... I think you would be hard-pressed to find folks who would be willing to sacrifice those vendors. Some things ARE worth the hassle and the wait.

Cheers

[diverdown]

Since this is not a bump as the topic is at the top of the list

Just to let the thread show. This item has still not been returned to me. I have ordered several other items from the UK/USA/China since i started this thread and all have arrived ....... It would have been nice to play my machine over the christmas break......oh well
At least the part WILL arrive by christmas