Best Buy 27" Insignia is on sale for $190 (down from $235)

[rubberpoultry]

I was looking at this TV for my cabinet about a week ago and decided to wait. If this is the TV for me, I'm glad I did. I just don't know yet if it autopowers if power is cut, and I don't know if it remembers the input. If you have the answer let me know.

Anyway- here's the link:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7601838&productCategoryId=pcmcat95100050021&type=product&tab=2&id=1130982274848

RubberP

[Fozzy The Bear]

I just don't know yet if it autopowers if power is cut, and I don't know if it remembers the input.

The only way you're going to find that out for certain is to examine the item..... It'd be quicker to drop them an e-mail and just ask those questions. Or if you have a store close to you that stocks these, then go in and find out.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[rubberpoultry]

I just found a thread where someone here confirmed that it does remember the last input. I called and they said it does power back on after being switched off (when the power is cut).

So I'm heading over there!

[ArtMAME]

Looks like a good choice.  Those component inputs will make even classic games look great.
Nice and clear, not blurry like composite or S-Video

If you plan on using a DVI-to-Component adapter for the component video inputs,
make sure you get at least an ATI 9550 video card or better.  You will have to run your resolution at 640x480 if you are using the component inputs.

Good luck 

[rubberpoultry]

Thanks! I bought a Saphire Radeon 9600 256MB card. It should arrive in a day or two. I bought a DVI to Compoonet adapter from ebay.

[jWin]

Thanks for the headsup!,  anyone happen to know how to access the service menu on Insignia TV's?

[AtomSmasher]

I used a 27'' Insignia in my cab (not sure if its that exact same model) and it does not automatically turn back on when plugged back in.  The good news is that all I had to do is jam a bunch of toothpicks into the power switch to hold it down, which made it so it does power on automatically.

[jWin]

rubberpoultry: did you pick up one of these TV's by chance? Im going to Best Buy today to look and probably purchase one, digital tube (component) for 189.99 is a good deal and even if the quality isnt as good as some TV's it should still beat any s-video TV.

If anyone know hows to get into the Insignia service menus please do tell

Im not too worried about the power on after powerfailure feature, like AtomSmasher mentioned all you have to do is jam the power button in and presto, it will turn on everytime.

[AgentX]

I have this on ein my cab at home.

I can't answer to the other questions but picture quality is pretty solid for a TV.

[rubberpoultry]

rubberpoultry: did you pick up one of these TV's by chance? Im going to Best Buy today to look and probably purchase one, digital tube (component) for 189.99 is a good deal and even if the quality isnt as good as some TV's it should still beat any s-video TV.

If anyone know hows to get into the Insignia service menus please do tell

Im not too worried about the power on after powerfailure feature, like AtomSmasher mentioned all you have to do is jam the power button in and presto, it will turn on everytime.

I don't know how to get into the service menu. I'll try to scour the web at some point to see what I can dig up. I haven't had time to take the TV out of the box yet. I'm waiting for all my parts to come in.

[jWin]

Picked up one of these TV's today, it does support power on after power failure(unplug) and also remembers to stay on component input.  Picture quality seems good, reds are a little bright but its like that with any TV I use with ATI -> component, just needs some adjusting.   Need to figure out how to get into the service menu to fix the overscan or fiddle with powerstrip.

[ahofle]

Can you put a TV in 800x600 interlaced resolution when running over component input?  I hear everyone saying you have to use 640x480 for everything when using component.

[jWin]

As far as I know the max resolution is 640x480 interlaced, the optimal resolution is 640x432.

After much research I found the service menu, to access it you turn down the volume to 0 and then hold down the "Volume Down" button on the TV itself and hold down the "#9" button on the remote control for about 5 seconds and the screen will change to the service menu.  I corrected the overscan/underscan and tilt and the picture looks outstanding.   Heres a few photos, with component connection.

[ArtMAME]

Glad you got it working... 

Have you tried any of the classics like Pacman or Donkey Kong? This is where the component inputs really shine   

Nice and clear, not fuzzy like S-Video...

[Glaine]

I've got 2 19" Insignias in my 2 cabs right now and generally like the pic quality.
Never had much luck with component, but S-Vid has always looked fine to me.
You CAN run things at 800x600, just know that in general the resolution will appear fuzzier. Things look a lot more crisp (especially MAME) at 640x480.

Thanks for posting this, but I haven't the space. I've already filled the guest room with old PC monitors, TVs, keyboards, power supplies, PC cases... 

Note: their 19" TV that has the speakers on the SIDES does not remember channel or power up when switched on. My 19" with the speakers UNDER the screen does though. I really should have checked this in the store but the workers always give me a hard time when I get under the displays and start unplugging things. 

[rubberpoultry]

As far as I know the max resolution is 640x480 interlaced, the optimal resolution is 640x432.

After much research I found the service menu, to access it you turn down the volume to 0 and then hold down the "Volume Down" button on the TV itself and hold down the "#9" button on the remote control for about 5 seconds and the screen will change to the service menu.  I corrected the overscan/underscan and tilt and the picture looks outstanding.   Heres a few photos, with component connection.

Awesome! Thanks for saving me the hassle of looking for that. What MAME and FE are you running?

[ahofle]

I've got 2 19" Insignias in my 2 cabs right now and generally like the pic quality.
Never had much luck with component, but S-Vid has always looked fine to me.

Agreed.  Mine is quite crisp using S-video, not sure why everyone is saying it's 'blurry'.  I think correct MAME video configuration makes the biggest difference in video quality.

You CAN run things at 800x600, just know that in general the resolution will appear fuzzier. Things look a lot more crisp (especially MAME) at 640x480.

Thx for the info, that's just what I needed.  I was a little curious why everyone says you must always use 640x480 using component since you can technically run an HD signal over component.  I run 800x600 over s-video and it IS blurry, but I need to be able to navigate around windows and many of the non-sizable system dialogs do not fit on a 640x480 screen.  Do you any of you using component inputs have Act Labs lightguns that you could try out with your TVs? 

[Luljs1]

Looks like a good deal. Anyone have dimensions on it? How wide is it? I may just pick one up.

[AtomSmasher]

Looks like a good deal. Anyone have dimensions on it? How wide is it? I may just pick one up.

It lists its specs on the Best Buy page.  Width is  25-3/5"

[waldo]

do best buy ship internationally lo, only brans we can get down here in NZ are the main stayers like sony,panasonic, pioneer -  sad puppy

side question, what does component input look like? is it the 4 rca style plugs?

[jWin]

I dont think they ship internationally.   Component inputs look like 3 RCA connectors, the colors RED / GREEN / BLUE.

The only emulators I tried at the moment is MAME32, NeoMAME32, and Daphne(Dragon's Lair).   NeoMAME and MAME32 seem to act a little differently when filling up the screen, I havent figured out the best resolution settings yet for the software emulators.

Is there a guide to setting up the MAME video settings for a television?

[TOK]

Agreed.  Mine is quite crisp using S-video, not sure why everyone is saying it's 'blurry'.  I think correct MAME video configuration makes the biggest difference in video quality.

I have both working on my machine. The difference with component is very obvious if you see the two back to back.
The colors are richer and brighter, and the edges are more defined. I had some initial setup issues too, and it the difference was what kept me going until I got it figured out.

[mccoy178]

Agreed.  Mine is quite crisp using S-video, not sure why everyone is saying it's 'blurry'.  I think correct MAME video configuration makes the biggest difference in video quality.

I have both working on my machine. The difference with component is very obvious if you see the two back to back.
The colors are richer and brighter, and the edges are more defined. I had some initial setup issues too, and it the difference was what kept me going until I got it figured out.

I agree with this completely.  It made a night and day difference on my cabinet.  I'm going to try the service menu option to adjust the overscan.  Not really that big of a deal, but it would help me with the Z26 emulator.

[jWin]

Some other information about this particular TV,  Orion has this same TV in black, sold at walmart, model  Orion TVD2710.  The TV (Insignia/Orion) is actually a Toshiba as far as I can tell, the service menu code came from Toshiba.

[rubberpoultry]

I just added a new post about this TV. It's on sale at Wal-Mart for $179 right now.

[ahofle]

Agreed.  Mine is quite crisp using S-video, not sure why everyone is saying it's 'blurry'.  I think correct MAME video configuration makes the biggest difference in video quality.

I have both working on my machine. The difference with component is very obvious if you see the two back to back.
The colors are richer and brighter, and the edges are more defined. I had some initial setup issues too, and it the difference was what kept me going until I got it figured out.

I didn't mean to imply that component wasn't better.  I was simply stating that a crisp picture can be achieved with S-Video with proper video settings in MAME.  A new person reading these threads would incorrectly assume that S-video would always give them a blurry picture which is not the case.

[waldo]

hmm do walmart ship internationally hehehe

[Glaine]

Agreed.  Mine is quite crisp using S-video, not sure why everyone is saying it's 'blurry'.  I think correct MAME video configuration makes the biggest difference in video quality.

I have both working on my machine. The difference with component is very obvious if you see the two back to back.
The colors are richer and brighter, and the edges are more defined. I had some initial setup issues too, and it the difference was what kept me going until I got it figured out.

I agree with this completely.  It made a night and day difference on my cabinet.  I'm going to try the service menu option to adjust the overscan.  Not really that big of a deal, but it would help me with the Z26 emulator.

Interesting, I might have to look around for a good composite card to try, any suggestions? I tried composite on my RGB to NTSC PCB I bought from JROK and it didn't look nearly as good as S-Video for some reason (no clue why) so thats the main reason I hadn't tried it on PCs.

[TOK]

Glaine, I think that might just a confusion of terms, but composite and component are entirely different things. Composite video (single yellow RCA plug) will give a lower quality image than S-Video.

I used the ATI 9550 with the DVI to component converter. All ATI 95xx and up cards can use it. Not sure about cards from other manufacturers, but I found the ATI will support the 640x432 resolution that gives a non-overscanned component image without a helper app like Powerstrip.

[Glaine]

Right, oops. I understand the difference but I still say the wrong one sometimes. Thanks.

[Chunce DeLeone]

jWIn - How did you get full screen on the insignia,  I have the same setup you do but the screen is cropped with a one inch black border around it.  Did you have to use the service mode on the TV to do this?

[Neilyboy]

ill have to look into this tv again.. its the one i wanted to begin with /me heads to store

Neil

[Neilyboy]

crap now its back to 235 wonder why it went on sale a bit and now its back to original price.  oh well ill catch it next time i guess..

Neil

[jWin]

Chunce DeLeone:  Yes I had to use the service menu, I have a perfect picture on mine at the moment, no over or underscan,  messing with the service menu will most likely mess up other stuff like cable tv, xbox, playstation, etc.  I only use the TV for my computer/arcade so its ok.

Neilyboy: could always check your local walmart for the Orion 27" version, it might be 180-200$.

[Chunce DeLeone]

I Bought mine for 235$, still think it is a good price, the picture is awsome,

Jwin - I also only use this TV for arcade purposes, I am afraid to get into service menu and mess around.  Would it be possible for you to tell me what you changed in the service menu and what numbers they are on now,  then I could just copy your service menu config, I know this would be a pain in the A##, Ex. H Size 68, V size 34 etc. etc.

[Neilyboy]

im gonna pick one up for 235 next week. its the tv i was originally going to purchase and use and now youve just shown me in those pics that it is the one i need haha.. i myself am leary of the service menu but ill figure it out haha..
Thanks for the info so far the service menu trick will come in handy.

Neil

[jWin]

Chunce DeLeone: It differs per TV, just write down the values it has and keep those values safe incase you want to revert back.  The options I messed with are between something like 04 and 08 on the remote, as well as 31 to 33.   It will not break your TV, so just play with it, after you record the default values.  Typing 39 on the remote will shut off the TV and save the values as well.

[Chunce DeLeone]

Thanks Jwin,  I will do that .....when you say between 04 and 08 on the remote, do you mean that after I get into the service menu I press 04 and a certain option will come up to adjust? then press 05 and adjust that and so on and so on...?

[jWin]

Yes that is correct, typing in numbers similiar to changing the channel is how you go through the menu options, and use the volume control to adjust the actual setting,  it starts from 00 and goes up to 39,  02 turns the screen into a thin line, just type another number to get out of it.


To add, this TV is very bright on default which makes the blacks look grey, in the normal menu (not service) I keep the brightness down to about 18 (Default 25)

[tranq]

.....isn't that stuff in the manual?

[Neilyboy]

not the service menu stuff.. of course the brightness and contrast is in the menu but thats just the standard osd for the general user to tinker with to get bob barker to look a normal skintone... the service menu adjustments tweak the hardware more or less.. adjusting the 'software' talking to the hardware..

Neil

[acevedor2]

One more question about this monitor is does the Happ 27" Bezel fit it? 

[jWin]

once my 27" happ bezel arrives ill let you know, will be awhile with the holidays though I imagine.

[acevedor2]

Thanks!  I am interested to know.  Cheers!

[rubberpoultry]

I've got mine looking great too. Thanks again for finding out the service menu entry code. Where did you find it?

The Happ Bezel sort of fits. It's very close to covering everything up. I put a strip of gaffers tape on the very bottom of the TV's bezel and now you can't tell at all that it's a TV. I also installed graylite 14 smoked glass, and now it looks killer. Smoked glass really adds to the look, and makes the monitor seem even better.

The only issue I have is that on some screens I get a little bit of what looks like interference. I'm not sure what's causing it. I get dancing patterns sometimes. I wish I had written down all of the original service menu values so I could compare, and try one more time. Does anyone know how to reset those?

RubberP

[jWin]

I found the code on avsforum somewhere, its also on this forum under a toshiba tv post. 

any chance you could post some pics of your bezel in action with the greylite glass?  the glass shop here offers 2 smokey grey's, one is about 25% dark and the other is about 50% dark, any idea what the greylite 14 compares to?

describe the interference, theres 3 different types that I know of..
1) interlace lines flickering
2) wavey motion during black or dark scenes
3) distortion of picture on the left/middle of the screen

[rubberpoultry]

This would describe what I'm seeing:

2) wavey motion during black or dark scenes

It seems to happen with dark blue. Black seems fine. It just doesn't like dark blue.

I've never attached a photo before, so I hope they make it, but these are some shots with and without the glass. It's hard to convey that with digital photos. The without looks much worse than it does in person.

[Neilyboy]

ok so you just sold me on teh greylite14 glass im gonna have to find some..

Neil

[jWin]

Dont ask me where but I have read several times that its a common problem with SDTV's and component connections (maybe PC connections only) to have those wavey lines on dark scenes, it might be possible if you use high quality over priced component cables it could help but im doubtful.   Picking up a Geforce 7300GT tomorrow and going to see if the quality is improved or changed at all over nvidia type component connection.   The only thing that really bothers me with component is how bright my "reds" are, like Ken in street fighter is blinding and lacking detail, of course the greylite would improve it a lot.

and wow that glass looks great, as does the bezel... still waiting on my bezel to arrive,  does the greylite glass hide or make the component flicker less noticeable?

the glass shop here offers 2 different shades of grey, one is really dark, say 50% dark and the other is say 25% dark... wish I knew which greylite 14 compared to

[rubberpoultry]

Dont ask me where but I have read several times that its a common problem with SDTV's and component connections (maybe PC connections only) to have those wavey lines on dark scenes, it might be possible if you use high quality over priced component cables it could help but im doubtful.   Picking up a Geforce 7300GT tomorrow and going to see if the quality is improved or changed at all over nvidia type component connection.   The only thing that really bothers me with component is how bright my "reds" are, like Ken in street fighter is blinding and lacking detail, of course the greylite would improve it a lot.

and wow that glass looks great, as does the bezel... still waiting on my bezel to arrive,  does the greylite glass hide or make the component flicker less noticeable?

the glass shop here offers 2 different shades of grey, one is really dark, say 50% dark and the other is say 25% dark... wish I knew which greylite 14 compared to

my reds were bleeding bad too, but I fixed that in the service menu. I turned down the red bias [correction I turned dow the red DRV]. I don't have it with me, but I thought I might post the service menu settings just for reference. I know evey tv would be different, but I thought it might be useful for someone.

The greylite does help hide the wavy lines some. They're still there, just not as noticable. I only see them on rare occasions when dark blue comes up. Black doesn't set it off thankfully.

RubberP

[Chunce DeLeone]

Rubber.....can you please post your service menu setting!!!!!! I have the same TV and I have gotten the Vertical height of the screen to where I want it but the horizontal is still an inch short on each side, every time I fool with the Service menu I get weird curves and distortion along the sides

Also Great tip on the red bleed, I have seen this especially with Robotron where the robots look like road flares, I will try the red bias decrease,,,,

I also know that your service menu setting will be different from mine but Atleast I could be in the ballpark and maybe find out what I am missing .....Thank You

[rubberpoultry]

At first I had the resolution set to 640x480, and I never could fill the screen right. When I changed it to 640x432 that solved my problems (after retweaking the service menu). 640x480 looked blurry, 640x432 looked crisp. So if you can, switch to that resolution.

Also I was wrong about changing the red bias. I actually changed the Red DRV.

Here are my service menu settings:
OSD H              1
OSDC               6
H.POSI           17
H. BLK L           1
H. BLK R           1
V. SIZE           73
V. POSI             1
V. LIN             12
V. CORR          10
V. COMP            2
R. BIAS         130
G. BIAS         133
B. BIAS         130
R. DRV              3
G. DRV              0
B. DRV             25
BRI. CENT        60
BRI. MAX         75
BRI. MIN          72
CONT. CENT   127
CONT. MAX     127
CONT. MIN      127
COL. CENT      126
COL. MAX        127
COL. MIN          18
TINT CENT        66
SHARP. CENT    60
SHARP MAX      39
SHARP MIN      25
SUB BIAS          0
H. SIZE            41
PARABOLA        17
TRAPEZIUM      37
COR TOP            5
COR BTM            6
TEST STEREO     0
TEST AUDIO       0
FREQ                 1


Hope this helps someone!

RubberP

[acevedor2]

So based off of this I think I am going to go and get the 27 inch flat tube tv they have at Best Buy on sale now.  It is the same INSIGNIA brand SDTV, but it is a flat tube.  I am hoping the HAPP 27inch flat tube bezel will fit.  It is on sale now for 229.  That and the fact that I have 150 bucks in Best Buy Gift Cards from Christmas make it a very attractive option!  I really like the look of that smoked glass.  How thick is it?

[rubberpoultry]

The glass is 1/4" thick.

[acevedor2]

Great, only problem I have is that I just looked at the width of the flat tube tv and it is too wide for the cab.  Back to the drawing board.  I want a billabs tri mode 27 flat monitor but it is 600 bucks!

[Chunce DeLeone]

First and foremost I want to thank RubberPultry and Jwin for all their help with this TV, they have answered every question I have given them very quickly and completely......

Unfortunately I have not been able (Due to my own incompetence with Service Menu's) get the screen to a full size and now have tweaked the colors beyond repair......

Please just understand that these TV's may not do what you want right out of the box

And be careful with service menu.....

[jWin]

Chunce: im not really sure why you cant get the screen to full size, does windows itself look chopped off?  H. Size will make the screen bigger from left to right , I believe that is #31 on the remote, and V.Size will make it bigger up and down which is around 05 or 06 on the remote I believe.    Just using those 2 alone should make the screen full size.  Ill write down my color settings and post them and you can compare them with RubberPultry's color settings he posted above,  but my screen settings are in a limbo at the moment from video card swapping.

I myself had 640x480 running perfectly but the screen flicker caused by the ATI to component dongle for 9x00 type cards was causing interlace flicker so now im trying to get a video card that does component without the dongle (nvidia 6/7 series, ATI x1k series) which has no flicker at all with component.   I tried out a Geforce 7300GT yesterday with component and the screen was great looking however it would only come in as black and white, no matter what I tried I could not get a color picture on a SDTV, worked fine on a HDTV though,  going to try out a ATI x1k next.

acevedor2: there is a lot of great TV's around but most have speakers on the side, which will instantly tell you it wont work in your cabinet, I know I would love to find a 27" HDTV without speakers on the side and in full-screen, or better yet a 27" fullscreen LCD.

Which video card are you guys using for output?

[Chunce DeLeone]

JWIN......the vsize works perfect, I can get the vertical size to the edges of the bezel...when I then increase the       H-size the screen starts to curve on the sides and I get two horizontal choppys lines in two places

Maybee its a problem with my vid card ATI x550 PCIE
Maybee its the TV itself
I can't figure out why the H-size curves like it does
I have my resolution set to 640 432 30hz interlaced in Catalyst Control center,
When I look at the resolution in the windows display settings it still says 640 480 60hz
The window itself is not cut off, all of the screen is shown, it's been so frustrating to buy a 27inch TV and wind up with less screen, also with the colors being off now classic games such as Robotron have a little blurryness, and the Reds on all games flare way to bright, I don't know....I'm at a loss....my wife is going to kill me

[Chunce DeLeone]

Jwin I just noticed you are using 640 480??   Do you get the whole screen with that resolution or is some cut off?  May bee I can get that resolution working because when I do uuse 640 480 I get a bigger screen right of the bat it just seems that vertically some is cut off

Also just to not I have been able to get 1024 768 to show on the TV but the results aren't as crisp as 640 432.
What are your feeling about 1024 768 resolution on this TV?
Does a higher resolution result in less picture quality?

[Chunce DeLeone]

  don't ask me how but its working full screen perfect,
I installed powerstrip and did some trial and error and got some wacky results
All of a sudden it worked with a weird resolution I have since forgot
Then I got stupid and tried to change something else and got scrued
I had wavy junk on the screen while I tried lots of different combos of catalyst control center and windows display props and powerstrip
I was about to lose it
then I unistalled powersrtip and did some things and its is back to full screen perfect
the res says 800 600 100hz but i don't think that it what it is
I think powerstrip fooled with it and it is now some combo of PS and catatlyst
I wish I had an answer
some advice....be persistent and a little lucky

[jWin]

Yeah I did have 640x480 working fine on mine with an old ATI 9500 + component dongle, there was about 2 lines chopped off at the bottom which I had to use PowerStrip to fix, it was windows that was chopped not the TV, .. im trying to pickup a newer card that doesnt use a dongle like you are using, maybe ill run into those issues then but I wont know til next week.

I know if I adjust it too far left ill get some distortion, like wavey jittery distortion around the middle/left of the screen.. as for the bowing you can fix that with PARABOLA, TRAPEZIUM options in the service menu,  I just messed with that til it was straight mostly all around and then had to go adjsut the H and V size again to fit it.

Chunce: Are you using the same TV in the topic?  It sounds like your TV might not be as forgiving, you could still return it or exchange it if you purchased it recently, they wont know you touched the service menu unless you tell them you did.

Here are some of my settings... the sizes arent proper as im in a video card limbo at the moment but its close.

H. POS. - 16
H BLK L - 6
H BLK R - 2
V. SIZE - 69
V. POS - 2
V. LIN - 11
VS. CORR - 11
V. COMP - 3
R. BIAS - 127
G. BIAS - 156
B. BIAS - 188
R. DRV - 80
G. DRV - 10
B. DRV - 66
BRI CENT - 70
BRI MAX - 96
H. SIZE - 41
PARABOLA - 16
TRAPEZIUM - 45
COR. TOP - 6
COR. BTM - 8

[jWin]

I am glad you have it working better for you, now to hope that MAME fits the screen properly as well... thats another battle.  As far as I know the ATI Dongle wont allow anything above 640x480 on a SDTV but the new cards seem to do it. 

Recieved my happ 27" bezel today (from ebay, twistedquarter) and cut it to fit, looks great and fits great, will post pics soon

comparing my R. DRV to rubberpoultry, his is set to 3 and mine is still on the default 80, no wonder theres so much bleeding red 

[Johnbz]

I also have a 27" Insignia I am trying to use. But the image on the screen seems to stretch on the top and bottom and there is bowing on the tv. Any way to fix these problems on the service menu?

[jWin]

Yes by adjust V.Size and PARABOLA + TRAPEZIUM you should be able to fix those issues,  H.Size if youre image is stretched left and right.

Be sure to write down your previous values before altering them because once altered you will not be able to reverse the effects unless you record the values.

[rockin_rick]

Recieved my happ 27" bezel today (from ebay, twistedquarter) and cut it to fit, looks great and fits great, will post pics soon

Please post some pics of this.  I am most interested in how close the curvature of the tube matches the curvature of the bezel - does the bezel sit flat on the screen in all places?  Or are there gaps under the bezel?

Also, how close does the opening in the bezel match the size of the screen?  How much larger or smaller is the bezel compared to the screen in both the vertical and horizontal?

Thanks,
Rick

[jWin]

Heres some photos I just took, and to answer your questions, it does not sit against the screen for me, but I also use smokey grey glass which helps.  The glass I have is probably equal to greylite 31.

[Neilyboy]

its back at 190 again for those of us interested.. i may have to swing by there tonight

Neil

[vputz]

Bah, you people complaining about S-VHS vs Composite.  I have a 1992 Sanyo 27" clunker on a RCA composite video cable!

"I think I might have a high score, but it's so fuzzy I can't tell..."

(hey, at least the Atari games running on Stella look about right...)

[needlesmcgirk]

You guys are saying that you can make s-video look great with the right settings in mame.  Can you do the same thing with RVA composite?  I got a Sharp 27" from Goodwill real cheap, so I want tosee if I can make it look as good as it can.  Thanks!

[ahofle]

What version of MAME are you running?  Assuming it's one of the latest (after the video rewrites) I'll try to help you out.  There are about 4 different MAME video settings combinations I use -- depending on the game, one of them usually looks good on a TV.

I've actually considered writing a tutorial on picking video settings for people using MAME on a TV, because if you leave everything on 'auto' it looks bad IMO.

[needlesmcgirk]

Thanks Ahofle.  I'll send you a PM so we don't clutter up this topic.

[rubberpoultry]

If you do write a tutorial about how to make MAME look better on a TV. I want to know about it. Post a link here!

Mine looks really good right now, but if I can make it look better, I'd like to.

[jWin]

still running component connection rubberpoultry?

[rubberpoultry]

Yepper. I think it looks great, but if there's room for improvement, I want to know about it.

[vputz]

Actually, ahofle, that would be great (a mame-on-TV tutorial).  I'm not sure ANYTHING could be done to make MAME look good via RCA composite, but hey, I'm willing to try just about anything.

(stubby fingers... first time I typed ahofle's name I missed the 'f'; wouldn't THAT have been embarassing!)

[blueboy]

Ohhh, a TV/Mame settings would be very nice...
PLease share you're tweaks...I agree auto looks a little off..

Thanks
-Blue

[ahofle]

I sent some game-specific tweaks to rubberpoultry and needlesmcgirk to try out.  If they get some improvement I will consider spending some time on a more detailed document of some sort (it takes quite a bit of time documenting everything and taking pictures).  For now, you can see some of the differences I am getting on a TV here (the d3d pics are the mame defaults, and ddraw are my settings):

http://hofle.com/mame

[rubberpoultry]

Unfortunalely I fried up my onboard sound card yesterday, while applying thermal paste. Darn thing was barely touching the chassie when I fired it up the first time. POP...then wispy smoke rising. So I can't run MAME or anything else that requires audio at this point. So far my experience with the PC side (I'm a Mac Guy) hasn't gone well. I'm going to pick up a PCI sound card  this afternoon, then I'll try your settings and will report back. Probably will be a few days.

[rockin_rick]

How's everyone liking this TV after using it a while?

Just to be sure, it is model # NS-27RTV, correct?

Thanks,
Rick

[rubberpoultry]

Mine is still great. I have no problems except that I may need to tweak my color some. The blocks on Klax are hard to distinguish sometimes. That's the only game I've noticed it on.

[Jeff AMN]

I only have 25" of width in my cab, so this would be just a tiny bit too wide for me. It's a bummer, because it looks like a nice set. Does anybody know if I could de-case it, or would that cause problems?

[steak]

Guys, I know I am late in to this topic, I also have a 27" Insignia from BB, and I installed soft-15 the new video program out there, and all I can say is WOW!
what a difference! I get much better quality now, even on vector games!

Read on!http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66402.0

[Chunce DeLeone]

Can you post a pic of the 15k software working on the TV,  I have the same TV as in this post, 

[ahofle]

Yeah that doesn't make much sense to me.  I thought you have to run 640x480 or whatever it is for component inputs. 

[rubberpoultry]

Say more Steak. Tell us what you did with this tool, and what it did for your TV.

[steak]

I have the 27" Insignia running with component video cable on a  6200 Nvidia Gforce with the dvi to component dongle that came with it,  like everyone else I was using 640x432 before Soft 15k and I did went in to the service mode to be  to fix the edges of the TV, Nvidia Keystone proggie helps too.
A couple of days ago I installed Soft 15 and as the developer recommended,  I am running 640x480 I was able to go down to 640x480 by using Quickres, and then installed Soft 15,  at 15hz, 25hz and 31hz resolutions, the results are much  better quality on video and fonts, most of raster games and even oldies look like they are running on the real arcade monitor  .

Steak

[rubberpoultry]

So do you have to switch the resolutions depending on the game you're playing or does it auto detect in some way?

[steak]

It auto detects..

ohh well here are some pics.. of the before and after project...

Here is the cabinet I found for $150 with a missing motherboard and a broken monitor....
and ... after 2 months later...











As you can see I mounted the TV motherboard on wood before taking it a part, and to my surprise the original arcade mornitor mounting metal frame, fitted on this TV as it was made for it!

Edit - images now hosted at BYOAC --- saint

[steak]

Here are some pics of Soft 15 in action












Edit - images now hosted at BYOAC ---saint

[btp2k2]

Good luck with those......

The Insignia brand is absolute dogshit.

I have been through 2 in the last 3 years, and blew up an Insignia portable DVD player in about 7 hours.

It is the reason I don't shop Best Buy anymore....got tired of em pitching that garbage on me when I went in there looking for something.

[steak]

I guess I got lucky, mine it's been running flawlessly since August 2005... and this was a scratch and dent unit! I picked up at my local BB for $100, and BTW BB has a lot more TV brands in stock, insignia is their brand name.. and of course it is cheap...

[eclypse]

Looks nice.. Whats the model number off that tv?

[steak]

The model number is IS-TV040924

[moriartyds]

Sorry to sound like a noob Steak, but if I got this right ... basically you added some additional resolutions/refresh rates (15/31/etc..) via Soft 15.  Then mame selects the appropriate resolution based on game startups.  Does that sound right?

Are there games that were designed to run at say 15KHZ?

[ahofle]

Are there games that were designed to run at say 15KHZ?

Probably around 90% of arcade games.

[moriartyds]

Are there games that were designed to run at say 15KHZ?

Probably around 90% of arcade games.

Hmm, I had no idea.  Thanks. 

Edit - and the reason I say that is because when I go somewhere like MAWS, I never see a Mame game listed below say 27HZ frequency.  Or am I confusing two different things?

[ahofle]

That's the refresh rate or vertical scan rate.
15khz (horizontal scan rate) is just another way of saying CGA resolution, or games with 300 or fewer horizontal lines of resolution.  So all the 320x240, 256x240, 256x224, 384x256 etc, etc games (which is the vast majority).

I still don't understand the point of Soft 15khz on a TV (unless you are using a SCART connection) because the signal just gets converted to NTSC anyway.  Any chance you could post pictures before and after using soft 15khz on the TV?

[moriartyds]

That's the refresh rate or vertical scan rate.
15khz (horizontal scan rate) is just another way of saying CGA resolution, or games with 300 or fewer horizontal lines of resolution.  So all the 320x240, 256x240, 256x224, 384x256 etc, etc games (which is the vast majority).

Ahh, got it.  Thanks again.

[Chunce DeLeone]

I have to admit that I am scared to use the Soft 15 program for the chance of losing my current settings, which are pretty good,  could be better though.........but this is one of  those instances where if I do run the program and it messes something up, I will wonder why I ever did

Like allot of people with TV's I am happy but not thrilled with how vector and classic look, 

[rubberpoultry]

I'm in the same boat. I nervous about changing things up. On top of everything else I'm a Mac guy with very little Windows knowlege. If I new everything would be fine and that I'm not going to screw anythign up permanately, I'd go for it.

Does anybody know how to set the TV's service menu back to defaults? If I understand it right, this program via 640x480 at 15k will eliminate the need for some of the picture stretching we've done on our sets via the service menu. Is that correct?

[RandyT]

I still don't understand the point of Soft 15khz on a TV (unless you are using a SCART connection) because the signal just gets converted to NTSC anyway.  Any chance you could post pictures before and after using soft 15khz on the TV?

I'm a bit intrigued by this as well.   Is it possible that one can shift the frequency of the component outputs on the video card down to 15khz and the TV will actually display them?  If so, that would be very cool

Any chance of a close up photo of something running in 320 x 240 so we can get an idea of what might be happening with this combo?

RandyT

[steak]

I'm in the same boat. I nervous about changing things up. On top of everything else I'm a Mac guy with very little Windows knowlege. If I new everything would be fine and that I'm not going to screw anythign up permanately, I'd go for it.

Does anybody know how to set the TV's service menu back to defaults? If I understand it right, this program via 640x480 at 15k will eliminate the need for some of the picture stretching we've done on our sets via the service menu. Is that correct?

THis won't affect your default service menu settings, if you want to play it safe, just write down all the settings before trying.

[steak]

I still don't understand the point of Soft 15khz on a TV (unless you are using a SCART connection) because the signal just gets converted to NTSC anyway.  Any chance you could post pictures before and after using soft 15khz on the TV?

I'm a bit intrigued by this as well.   Is it possible that one can shift the frequency of the component outputs on the video card down to 15khz and the TV will actually display them?  If so, that would be very cool

Any chance of a close up photo of something running in 320 x 240 so we can get an idea of what might be happening with this combo?

RandyT

Yes I can post a picture.... what game would you like to see running in 320x240?

Let me know and I will post them here...

[Glaine]

I've been playing with Soft15K this week after reading this and wanted to thank you for mentioning it because as you say - it really does make a TV look "arcade sharp".

With the TV I have, whenever it tries to load a game with an incompatible resolution in mame, it just displays a blue screen so no worries so far. And all of my other windows apps that I've tried so far work fine still. Only problem is there are quite a few mame titles that try to access incompatible settings and blue screen and I've yet to read up on how to force a kh setting in those cases (right now it seems mame is automatically picking the best one).

I've been playing things like Cadillacs & Dinosaurs and Street Fighter Alpha 3 on it, and the difference is in the renderings - the edges look much crisper, as if they were being anti-aliased. I'm still on S-Vid at this point.

The actual Soft15K thread has already had over 1,000 views in about 3 days. I hope it gets stickied.

[rubberpoultry]

Steak, are you having this problem too? That's kind of a bummer if so. I've not had much time to think about installing this, and I'm hesitant to do it at this point.

Can you say anything about the install process? Did you just run an installer and that was it? Did you have to disable any other software? Like I use the ATI Catalyst software to adjust my monitor. Will this conflict with that? Do I need that anymore?

[Justin Z]

Steak, are you having this problem too? That's kind of a bummer if so. I've not had much time to think about installing this, and I'm hesitant to do it at this point.

Can you say anything about the install process? Did you just run an installer and that was it? Did you have to disable any other software? Like I use the ATI Catalyst software to adjust my monitor. Will this conflict with that? Do I need that anymore?

I can answer to a certain degree.

There is no installer at all.  It's just a small, standalone program.  When you click "Install 15KHz" it edits your registry to add 15KHz video modes.  You can then "Uninstall" them if you want to get rid of them.

Catalyst drives me nuts so I don't use it but if I recall correctly, SailorSat indicated that you can utilize the new resolutions within Catalyst.  However, the consensus seems to be that MAME brings them up automatically so it doesn't really matter.

~Justin

[shorthair]

Oh! Since Windows already has 31khz and above res's handled, I would think there'd be no need to use Soft-15 for them, hence just load 15 and 25khz res's. While on your desktop, they won't be in use, but in games selected for them, they will. Is this correct? (I loaded all of them and got flicker in the desktop, and thought maybe it was just my card and system. Has anyone else encountred Windows flicker?)

[steak]

Steak, are you having this problem too? That's kind of a bummer if so. I've not had much time to think about installing this, and I'm hesitant to do it at this point.

Can you say anything about the install process? Did you just run an installer and that was it? Did you have to disable any other software? Like I use the ATI Catalyst software to adjust my monitor. Will this conflict with that? Do I need that anymore?

I  already tried a bunch of games and no problems so far, just pure eye satisfaction ; ) lol
Remember you must set your video card windows resolution to 640 x 480 for Soft 15 to work.
I am running on a DVI to component dongle from  a Nvidia 6200, I have soft15 running with all resolution on 15khz,25khz,31khz, as you can see on this picture, don't get discourage by the way the picture looks, the camera that I was using didn't do a good job upclose.
 

[Chunce DeLeone]

STEAK "Remember you must set your video card windows resolution to 640 x 480 for Soft 15 to work."

Is your screen cropped on your TV?,  IE a black border around the screen.  When I set  my res to 640 X 480 I got that plus the screen had some bleed over,  Also I can see that on your last pic, some of the screen isn't there.  Most of us on this post have set our Resolutions  to 640 X 432 to get the maximun screen size, then going into the service menu to strech the H-size and V-size,

Hate to be a pest but STEAK can you post a pic of a CLASSIC game such as ROBOTRON, just to see how that looks?
If soft 15 can make the CLASSICS sharper and the VECTORS brighter,  I and I think allot of other people will do it.

[Kaytrim]

  Also I can see that on your last pic, some of the screen isn't there. 

This is normal when taking a pic of a TV.  It has to do with the scan rate.  The image in person will not have the black line going through the image.

TTFN
Kaytrim

[steak]

STEAK "Remember you must set your video card windows resolution to 640 x 480 for Soft 15 to work."

Is your screen cropped on your TV?,  IE a black border around the screen.  When I set  my res to 640 X 480 I got that plus the screen had some bleed over,  Also I can see that on your last pic, some of the screen isn't there.  Most of us on this post have set our Resolutions  to 640 X 432 to get the maximun screen size, then going into the service menu to strech the H-size and V-size,

Hate to be a pest but STEAK can you post a pic of a CLASSIC game such as ROBOTRON, just to see how that looks?
If soft 15 can make the CLASSICS sharper and the VECTORS brighter,  I and I think allot of other people will do it.

Is not cropped I was also running 640x432 before w/o Soft15 and even with the 640x432 resolution I had to go in to the service menu and center the screen a bit. at 640x480 windows does comes out  less than 1/2" on each side, but I am sure this is a problem that I have for messing with the service menu.
I will post some pics later on... no prob.. 

[steak]

  Also I can see that on your last pic, some of the screen isn't there. 

This is normal when taking a pic of a TV.  It has to do with the scan rate.  The image in person will not have the black line going through the image.

TTFN
Kaytrim

Here are some pics, I took without the acrylic cover. Let me know if you want to see any other game..

[shorthair]

steak, it would help if you did two things:

1. get a higher resolution camera.

2. particularly in some cases, turn up the pause brightness and pause the screen.

[Chunce DeLeone]

Steak Thanks allot for the pics.  Robo does look good, not sure if it is much better than what I have going right now.
"640x480 windows does comes out  less than 1/2" on each side,"  I don't think that is from you messing with the service menu,   I think that is just the way it goes with that resolution.  If that is the case, are you able to use the service menu to get it to full screen?

[ChicagoDave]

This sounds like a great tool, but I'm still a little confused.

Basically, I am using an ATI 9500 Pro with S-Video out to connect to a 27" Mitsubishi CS27MX1 TV via the S-Video. 

My questions are: 

1) Will this program adjust the frequencies via the S-Video output or is the S-Video output always forced to standard NTSC?
2) If it does send the frequencies, can they damage a TV?
3) Does someone have pictures of the results using this connection method? 

Before and after pictures would be nice.

Also, Steak, it would be nice to see some before and after pictures of your results, not just "after" pics.

Thanks in advance!

[ahofle]

1) Will this program adjust the frequencies via the S-Video output or is the S-Video output always forced to standard NTSC?

I haven't been able to find a definitive answer on this, but I'm pretty sure S-video is always 480i NTSC (or 576i for PAL).  Component can be 480i, 480p, 576i, 576p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p.  I don't believe they go lower than that.  So no matter what resolution you set in MAME, I'm fairly sure your video card's TV out circuitry will just bastardize the signal into 480i.  This would explain why I always found that setting MAME's resolution to 640x480 looked the best on my TV.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-Video

[RandyT]

This is just some speculation on my part, so take it as such;

*edit* Turns out it was based on bad memory.  Deleted to avoid confusion. 

RandyT

[ahofle]

Hmm interesting.  Though I had always assumed that anti-flicker setting simply blurred the image sent to the TV more so that fine one pixel horizontal lines like you'd find in Windows would be blurred/spread across multiple lines and hence would not flicker as badly.  I remember playing around with that setting and noticing that as the flicker went away, the image was more and more blurred.

I wish there was more information out there on this stuff.  I can hardly find anything about how video card TV-out circuitry works (or even how the DVI to component dongle works).  Maybe I'm not searching correctly.

[bb040]

Hey Steak where did you get the frame you used on your TV was the one on the old monitor?

[RandyT]

Hmm interesting.  Though I had always assumed that anti-flicker setting simply blurred the image sent to the TV more so that fine one pixel horizontal lines like you'd find in Windows would be blurred/spread across multiple lines and hence would not flicker as badly.  I remember playing around with that setting and noticing that as the flicker went away, the image was more and more blurred.

I wish there was more information out there on this stuff.  I can hardly find anything about how video card TV-out circuitry works (or even how the DVI to component dongle works).  Maybe I'm not searching correctly.

I think you are correct on that one as your recollection has jogged my memory.  Most likely I've confused it with one of the flicker controls on a video scaler I've used in the past. 

So bummer, it's probably canned and nothing can be changed for standard TV out    Anyone know what kind of circuitry the component outputs are subjected to?

RandyT

[steak]

Hey Steak where did you get the frame you used on your TV was the one on the old monitor?

Yes the frame is the one that came with the machine.

[steak]

Steak Thanks allot for the pics.  Robo does look good, not sure if it is much better than what I have going right now.
"640x480 windows does comes out  less than 1/2" on each side,"  I don't think that is from you messing with the service menu,   I think that is just the way it goes with that resolution.  If that is the case, are you able to use the service menu to get it to full screen?

Absolutely, the service menu allows you to shrink and expand  the image horizontally and vertically and also in Mame you can use "~" and make adjustments to each game individually.

[shorthair]

Absolutely, the service menu allows you to shrink and expand  the image horizontally and vertically and also in Mame you can use "~" and make adjustments to each game individually.

I've always found this character to control the volume in Mame.

[steak]

Absolutely, the service menu allows you to shrink and expand  the image horizontally and vertically and also in Mame you can use "~" and make adjustments to each game individually.

I've always found this character to control the volume in Mame.

What version of Mame are you running??, I have .109 installed the the features are in there ... follow this steps..
Press "~" then hit the up arrow key and to set left and right arrow... 

[shorthair]

Hey, neato. I'd forgotten that there were other things besides volume (it just being the first) in that sub-menu. Didn't know there were image controls, though. (Note, it must be since the re-write, cos it's not on my trusty old .104 .) And they are separate from your monitor, which I guess you can only get to from its OSD but I checked to make sure.

Still, when mentioning something like that, it's helpful to say something like 'scroll through the menu or sub-menu', so that someone like me who forgets about such things, or someone who doesn't know it's not just one parametre will know to look for it.

Thanks, though, I may recently have need for it. Actually, this should be in the wiki so people with TVs aren't stuck in cases where they can't access an OSD, if there is one.

[Chunce DeLeone]

Don't let this thread die,  Steak How is your screen holding up?

[shorthair]

Update to the Mame screen settings thing: After checking it out, I can see this being useful only if you have overscan, but not the reverse, as it only affects the image area being displayed. For example, say you're running a vertical game in vertical orientation and your monitor is horizontal. You have black areas on either side of the image. You can stretch the image via your monitor's OSD, or you can exit Mame and change the aspect. While in Mame, changing the Mame image geometry just relates to the image area already displayed - meaning, sizing it larger stretches the image off the imaged area.

[steak]

Don't let this thread die,  Steak How is your screen holding up?

The TV is working great, no complaints so far, keep in mind that before I installed Soft15 I was using the regular driver with my Nvidia Gforce 6200 and the DVI dongle, for 1 year... now that I have the new proggie running I see the difference and IMO it is a keeper 

[shorthair]

I was messing around with that app and I got flicker and weird geometry in windows. Did it set up right off for you?