KeyWiz - IPac - Keyboard Hack ... which to choose?

[digitalmonkeyman]

I'm going to be running a single 8-way joystick, and 5 buttons.  Nothing fancy. 
MAME on a WIN 98SE computer.
I'm not afraid of small scale soldering (keyboard hack), but for the 30 or so bucks, I'd rather save some frustration. 

Which encoder do I go for?
I-Pac?
KeyWiz Eco?
KeyWiz Max?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!!

[quarterback]

I've bought two GPWiz 49s and one KeyWiz Eco2.   If you go 'solderless' then each one is about $23 and worth every penny, IMO

[Fozzy The Bear]

I've bought two GPWiz 49s and one KeyWiz Eco2.   If you go 'solderless' then each one is about $23 and worth every penny, IMO

Absolutely agree with Quarterback on this! You simply can't beat the KeyWiz Eco2 in the value for money stakes.  Certainly go for the solderless option. It saves a lot of hassle.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[digitalmonkeyman]

So I guess the solderless Eco will do the trick for me?  I don't need to go to the Max?

Thanks

[Fozzy The Bear]

So I guess the solderless Eco will do the trick for me?  I don't need to go to the Max?

The only thing the Max adds is a switched keyboard passthrough and screw terminals. For such a small panel with basic controls you really won't need it. In any case if you want to add a keyboard as well, then you can do it by plugging a USB one into the PC.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[vrf]

I went with an ipac for two reasons:

1. Didn't have room for a dedicated shazaam button. (My shift button needs its own function.)

2. Groovy Game Gear ships to many countries, but Taiwan is not one of them.

[quarterback]

2. Groovy Game Gear ships to many countries, but Taiwan is not one of them.

Good point.   

FWIW, digitalmonkeyman, I don't have anything against the Ipac or the "keywiz max", I just think the ~$20 price is hard to say no to.

Have you bought your other parts yet?  If not, you can get buttons and stuff at GGG as well and save on shipping over buying from multiple places. 

Hey, I don't know if you have your joystick yet, but there's a deal in the B/S/T forum that I think is good.  It's somebody selling a 49-way joystick plus the GPWiz-49 Max.   I haven't actually used a Midway 49-way, so I can't speak to it's 'feel' but for a single joystick setup the 49-way would allow you to do 4-way, 8-way, q-bert etc.  Plus the GPWiz49 allows for another 20 buttons (or something like that) to be hooked up, so it would easily cover your small CP setup.

If you DO already have a joystick and buttons and don't need anything else from GGGear, the post in B/S/T might still be of interest to you because he's selling the GPWiz49 MAX for $25 incl shipping.    Even without a 49-way joystick, the GPWiz-49 can be used for other controls/buttons/joysticks as well.  And $25 shipped is less than you'll pay for the solderless Eco version to be shipped to you from GGGear

Here's the thread in B/S/T: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=60162.0

[digitalmonkeyman]

Thanks!
This place is the BEST

[leapinlew]

I've purchased 3 Ipacs from Divemaster. I started off with the Ipac and haven't had any reason to switch. I have nothing against the keywiz. I've never used one.

[digitalmonkeyman]

Ordered my KeyWiz, and It seems to be missing a pin!  I tried emailing GGG twice, and they do not respond.  Any idea if I do in fact have a faulty unit?

[RandyT]

Ordered my KeyWiz, and It seems to be missing a pin!  I tried emailing GGG twice, and they do not respond.  Any idea if I do in fact have a faulty unit?

Just saw your email.  The pin that is missing is due to a board change that occurred a little while ago.  It's an extra 5v connection that used to be a ground and was put into place for future expansion.  We just don't want people with older wiring harnesses to accidentally get them crossed up.

The 5v line is still accessible from where it always was, as are the rest of the ground pins.

IOW, no, there is nothing wrong with your board.

RandyT

[digitalmonkeyman]

Thanks Randy!
Appreciate it!

[urbecrisch]

I'm new to arcade controls and I don't know much about computers and wiring but I'm in the process of building a Mame arcade.  I have the cabinet finished (a gutted out Defender) and now I'm working on the control panel.  I read that keywiz is a good control interface but I do not have any soldering skills, nor do I know anything about wiring.
 
Does the keywiz come solderless?
What do you recommend for an interface for this setup?
 
I'm interested in having a two player control panel with a total of around 25 buttons, 2 4/8 way joysticks, GroovyGameGear USB spinner and USB trackball from Happs.  I also may add a dedicated 4 way retro joystick.
 
Any help would be greatly appreciated! 
 

[Kaytrim]

I'm new to arcade controls and I don't know much about computers and wiring but I'm in the process of building a Mame arcade.  I have the cabinet finished (a gutted out Defender) and now I'm working on the control panel.  I read that keywiz is a good control interface but I do not have any soldering skills, nor do I know anything about wiring.
 

Welcome aboard 

Does the keywiz come solderless?
 

Yes there are two options with the keywiz.  One has screw termanals this is the max version.  The other is the eco version and has a IDE hard drive connection soldered in place.  For you I would recomend the max version for ease of setup.

What do you recommend for an interface for this setup?
 
I'm interested in having a two player control panel with a total of around 25 buttons, 2 4/8 way joysticks, GroovyGameGear USB spinner and USB trackball from Happs.  I also may add a dedicated 4 way retro joystick.
 
Any help would be greatly appreciated! 
 

For your complete setup that you have stated here. I would recomend you go with the KeyWiz Max for the Player 1 joystick, buttons and admin buttons.  Get a GPWiz for Player 2 joystick and buttons.  You can also wire the dedicated 4-way to the same terminals as the player 1 joystick.  Get a standard trackball, not the USB-PS2 varity if you are getting the Turbo Twist  2 spinner.  You can set the spinner for the Z axis and connect the trackball to the X and Y axisies.  This way you don't deal with the reasigning of mouse numbers via windows.

I would recomend that you read up on the various controls and how to wire them up because without that knowlege you will be compleatly lost.  The search function is your friend.  One other nice thing is that all the tech documents are downloadable from Groovy Game Gear (GGG).  Also you can go through the newbie guide on this site.  Click on the ArcadeControls logo at the top of this page.  There will be a list of things on the left side of that page.  Lots of information right there at your fingertips.

Have fun with your build and start a thread in the projects forum and show us how you are progressing with pics.   

[urbecrisch]

Really all I want to know is the brand or kind of gauge wiring to use and what kind of metal clamps? (not sure what they're called) to plug into the contacts of the microswitch buttons and joysticks. 

Also, why would I have a problem with both a USB trackball and spinner?  Can you elaborate for me when you said "deal with the reasigning of mouse numbers via windows".  Thanks.

[Kaytrim]

Really all I want to know is the brand or kind of gauge wiring to use and what kind of metal clamps? (not sure what they're called) to plug into the contacts of the microswitch buttons and joysticks. 

You can use 16-22 gauge wire without a problem.  I use CAT-5 wire (network cable) with no problems and that is thin stuff.  The female quick disconnects would be what you are looking for and you can get them real cheap from GGG

Also, why would I have a problem with both a USB trackball and spinner?  Can you elaborate for me when you said "deal with the reasigning of mouse numbers via windows".  Thanks.

As far as the reassigning of the mouse numbers in windows this issue is discussed in several threads and recently on these boards.  The problem is that Windows sees a USB mouse as a USB mouse and cannot distinguish the difference between them.  The mouse number is assigned on each boot as a first in first number.  The order that the mice are recognized can change if the mice are connected via a USB hub or even directly to the motherboard.  In other words your spinner may be assigned as mouse 1 and the trackball as mouse2 one time and on the next boot they would be reversed.  One workaround that I have seen as being effective is to have one of these connected via the PS2 port and the other connected via USB.  Windows does recognize a difference then and they would have the same assignment each time the computer is booted up.

I hope that helps, 

[urbecrisch]

But if I use a ps/2 for my kwywiz, I wouldn't be able to use the ps/2 port for my spinner or trackball.  Should I just buy a optiwiz to plug my spinner into?

[leapinlew]

But if I use a ps/2 for my kwywiz, I wouldn't be able to use the ps/2 port for my spinner or trackball.  Should I just buy a optiwiz to plug my spinner into?

oh my...

you do know that the keywiz plugs into the ps2 port for the keyboard right? Meanwhile, the optiwiz goes into the ps2 port for the mouse. Save yourself some trouble and get one with a USB interface.

[Kaytrim]

But if I use a ps/2 for my kwywiz, I wouldn't be able to use the ps/2 port for my spinner or trackball.  Should I just buy a optiwiz to plug my spinner into?

leapinlew is correct the keywiz will plug into the keyboard PS2 port because it is a keyboard encoder and will send key press events to the computer.  The optiwiz with your spinner will plug into the mouse PS2 port.  Then your trackball can plug into a USB port.

[MYX]

Awww man...Hacking a keyboard is so 1990's. Seriously though, I did a keyboard hack on my first console an the problems reared it's ugly head on games like robotron and anything that is 2 player at once.
On my cabinet I did it right with 2 GPWiz49 encoders and 2 49 way joys and I love em. There is too much difference to explain. It is a feel thing.

[urbecrisch]

Of course!  I forgot about the mouse ps/2.  Sorry guys but I'm new at this so it will take me some time to figure this whole thing out.  Thanks.  More questions to follow...

[urbecrisch]

I noticed some pics from other control panels show different color wiring to different controls.  Is there a reason for this?  Should I color-code what I'm wiring or doesn't it matter?

[Kaytrim]

I noticed some pics from other control panels show different color wiring to different controls.  Is there a reason for this?  Should I color-code what I'm wiring or doesn't it matter?

The choice is yours.  I would recommend that you choose one color for the ground, black and don't use that color for any other connection.

[SavannahLion]

I would recomend you go with the KeyWiz Max for the Player 1 joystick, buttons and admin buttons.  Get a GPWiz for Player 2 joystick and buttons.

Is there a particular aversion to using two GPWizes for both P1 and P2?

I ask because I don't have the motherboard selected, so there's no guarantee I'll have PS/2 available. In addition, the operating system isn't selected either. I don't see a problem if I elect to use an alternate OS such as Linux, but I'm covering my bases here.

I'm flipflopping between using IPACs or *Wiz's

[Kaytrim]

I would recomend you go with the KeyWiz Max for the Player 1 joystick, buttons and admin buttons.  Get a GPWiz for Player 2 joystick and buttons.

Is there a particular aversion to using two GPWizes for both P1 and P2?

I ask because I don't have the motherboard selected, so there's no guarantee I'll have PS/2 available. In addition, the operating system isn't selected either. I don't see a problem if I elect to use an alternate OS such as Linux, but I'm covering my bases here.

I'm flipflopping between using IPACs or *Wiz's

That is an option, using two GPWiz boards.  I am using only one for my two player setup  I'd choose your joysticks first.  If you go with the standard microswitch joysticks then you can use a KeyWiz, GPWiz or I-Pac interfaces.  If you want to use a 49-way joystick then there is really only one option, the GPWiz49.  Finally if you are wanting to use the Ultimarc 360 joysticks you don't need an interface card for them.  You can even connect buttons to them so you might be able to get away without an interface card at all if you plan it out right.

TTFN 

[urbecrisch]

I still haven't found a good tutorial for wiring solderless controls.  The arcadecontrols.com wiring hyperlink is old and outdated.  I'm a fast learner and already figured out the gauge of wiring and in what lengths, female quick disconnects, but I'm not sure how to wire the ground.  I'm assuming there is a ground on the keywiz but where do you ground it to?

[Kaytrim]

Once you connect all the common (ground) connections together and then to the ground point on the keywiz you are done with the ground connection.  Look at the image below.  This is the underside of some of my panels.  The switches ground points (common) are daisy chained together then to the my interface board (not in the pic)  Then each of the normally open connections are connected directly to a point on the interface board.  The joystick in the background is done the same.  The spinner in the front is not part of this discussion and is wired differently.

I hope this helps.