New Product: TurboTwist 2 - The Ultimate Spinner / Paddle control ! From GGG!

[Kaytrim]

Does the spinner perform EXACTLY the same (IOW with the same resolution/update speed) on the Z-axis as it does on the X or Y?

I tested it a bit (in USB mode) with Tempest and found that I need to cut the sensitivity down to 3% to match the 6% used when on the X-axis.  This would seem to imply that something is different with the Z-axis and the TT2 (or opti-wiz).  Maybe the scaling is different?  Is there any difference (regarding Z-axis performance) between PS/2 and USB modes?

Of course, the reason for the Z-axis is the ability to add a trackball to the opti-wiz.  If the spinner works on the Z-axis 100% as good as it does on the X-axis, then that certainly adds value to the TT2.

Rick

The problem is not with the spinner it is with Windows.  Go to the control panel and look for the Mouse Properties and open it.  Look at the wheel tab for your mouse properties the default setting will be 3 lines at a time for each click of the wheel.  This is your Z axis.  This property intercepts the action of the Z axis and sends 3 times the amount to any program listening to it.  If you set this option to 1 line then you will have the same performance as if the spinner was on the X or Y axis. 

TTFN 
Kaytrim

[rockin_rick]

I tried this.  It was initially on 3, and I tried setting it to 1 and 10 and there was no difference in Tempest.

Rick

[RandyT]

Kaytrim is correct in that it is a Windows "thing".  There have been custom MAME builds to address this, and the topic has surfaced a couple times here, including what needs to be done to the MAME code to counter the Windows translation.

The Z-axis is treated the same as the the other two as far as the hardware is concerned.

RandyT

[DoctorWHO]

I'd like to buy it, but I see there's no shipping to Italy...

[Fozzy The Bear]

I'd like to buy it, but I see there's no shipping to Italy...

 

Don't worry!! E-Mail Randy at Groovy Game Gear.... I'm sure it's an ovesight in his checkout system. I've no doubt he'll be happy to help you here. His customer service is great!!

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[DoctorWHO]

Thanks for the tip. Sent email to Randy. Hope to hear from him soon. 

[Derrick Renaud]

Kaytrim is correct in that it is a Windows "thing".  There have been custom MAME builds to address this, and the topic has surfaced a couple times here, including what needs to be done to the MAME code to counter the Windows translation.

Ummmm...

This has already been addressed in windows MAME for quite some time.

MAME divides the scroll wheel count by 30.   So if you set the sensitivity to 25% then 1 wheel click = 1 MAME optical count.

[RandyT]

Kaytrim is correct in that it is a Windows "thing".  There have been custom MAME builds to address this, and the topic has surfaced a couple times here, including what needs to be done to the MAME code to counter the Windows translation.

This has already been addressed in windows MAME for quite some time.

MAME divides the scroll wheel count by 30.   So if you set the sensitivity to 25% then 1 wheel click = 1 MAME optical count.

I went back through our discussion and found this:

MAME 110u5 is out with the Mouse Z fix

And also re-read where you stated that under XP it has worked before that version.  Many thanks for your work on this.

But my comments were also based on the idea that not everyone uses the latest builds, and a modded or at least recent version (as you pointed out) will be necessary for best utilization of the Z.  Sorry if it looked like I was talking about the current official distribution.

RandyT

[Tiger-Heli]

Randy, you beat me to the answer, but I did a Google search and it was indeed 110u5.  You can read the details here: http://www.mame.net/whatsnew.html

The info for previous builds (0.84 and up) is here: http://www.powermame.com/pmwiki.php?n=Features.Z-axisFix

[Derrick Renaud]

No problem Randy.

Just want to make sure everyone was aware of the change to the Z axis.

BTW has anyone tried using their spinner for Asteroids yet?  Mouse axis are now selectable as button input in the latest MAME.

D.

[RandyT]

Another "Updated Info" bump:

For those who haven't noticed, The Mini-Racers have been revised due to supply issues with the original style.

As a result, we can now offer 3 different sizes.  The original 5", as well as a 6" and 7" version.  The bigger wheels look just like the small ones but are larger (who'd have guessed  )  Exact dimensions are included in a table at the site.

If you have the room on your CP (I don't  ) and can swing the extra cost, the bigger wheels might be a consideration.

RandyT

[Minwah]

BTW has anyone tried using their spinner for Asteroids yet?  Mouse axis are now selectable as button input in the latest MAME.

Cool!  I think there were some other games people have wanted to have this ability, although I can't think of what they were...

[Minwah]

As a result, we can now offer 3 different sizes.  The original 5", as well as a 6" and 7" version.  The bigger wheels look just like the small ones but are larger (who'd have guessed  )  Exact dimensions are included in a table at the site.

If you have the room on your CP (I don't  ) and can swing the extra cost, the bigger wheels might be a consideration.

A 3 player Super Sprint panel enters my head....

[langdoguk]

I'm so deperessed  ,I've just bought the TT2 with the 5" steering wheel two days ago and a 7 " comes out now  .
Would have loved the bigger wheel , just unlucky timing 

[RandyT]

I'm so deperessed  ,I've just bought the TT2 with the 5" steering wheel two days ago and a 7 " comes out now  .
Would have loved the bigger wheel , just unlucky timing 

Don't be depressed   If it's an unused new style, I'll swap it for the difference in price+shipping.  Drop me an email if you are interested.

RandyT

[Arcades R Fun]

We just got in our first 5" Mini-Racer steering wheel from GGG. Tried it last night and it was awesome! Very authentic  in the "feel" and "play" of the wheel.

I think we might have to go for the bigger 7" wheel even if it means changing the default spinner location a bit.

Thnaks Randy! Keep the innovations coming!

[shorthair]

I guess with the insane resolution of the TT2 a 7" wheel might be big enough, eh?

[Tiger-Heli]

BTW has anyone tried using their spinner for Asteroids yet?  Mouse axis are now selectable as button input in the latest MAME.

Sorry for the thread hi-jack.

Does anyone know how to make this work?  I go into "Input-This Game", select "Rotate Left", press Enter, and move the mouse, and "Rotate Left" gets set to "None."

The Mouse works in the trackball and lightgun games,

Using MAME 114.

[u_rebelscum]

BTW has anyone tried using their spinner for Asteroids yet?  Mouse axis are now selectable as button input in the latest MAME.

Does anyone know how to make this work?  I go into "Input-This Game", select "Rotate Left", press Enter, and move the mouse, and "Rotate Left" gets set to "None."

You have to spin it fast and far enough within the second or so you have to remap.  (But not too fast so you get back spin. )  Very much like remapping any mouse axis to a normal analog axis (which seems to work easier on some systems than others).

Works fine on my laptop, except if I try to map a normal mouse or touchpad X axis for example, the Y axis is included with lots of NOT or ORs or ANDs.  Hand editing the cfg file gets rid of the extra Y axis junk.

However, I don't see a way to adjust the speed.

[Tiger-Heli]

I tested on the computer at work.  You have to spin it much faster to assign mouse input to a button, but I got it to work on about my third attempt.  That's good enough, though.

Last question - What I would prefer is for either the Buttons or the Mouse to do Rotation, but I didn't see any way to assign this.

Do you think it's possible?

[u_rebelscum]

Last question - What I would prefer is for either the Buttons or the Mouse to do Rotation, but I didn't see any way to assign this.

Do you think it's possible?

You just like left arrow OR mouse X axis Pos?  This will be a head slapper for you Tiger-Heli  :

It's just like entering multiple OR inputs in mame: enter, press key/button, wait until mame accepts it, enter, spin spinner, wait until mame accepts it, (repeat as needed).

[Tiger-Heli]

You just like left arrow OR mouse X axis Pos?  This will be a head slapper for you Tiger-Heli  :
It's just like entering multiple OR inputs in mame: enter, press key/button, wait until mame accepts it, enter, spin spinner, wait until mame accepts it, (repeat as needed).

Thanks Robin, I tried that earlier.  My work, errmmmn test system does not like reading the mouse inputs at all.

I simplified my earlier response, but when I spun the mouse, my unmodified .cfg file looked like this:

Code: [Select]

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!-- This file is autogenerated; comments and unknown tags will be stripped -->
<mameconfig version="10">
    <system name="asteroid">
        <input>
            <port type="P1_JOYSTICK_RIGHT" mask="64" index="18" defvalue="0">
                <newseq type="standard">
                    NOT MOUSECODE_1_X_POS MOUSECODE_1_Y_POS MOUSECODE_1_Y_NEG MOUSECODE_1_X_NEG MOUSECODE_1_X_POS MOUSECODE_1_Y_POS MOUSECODE_1_Y_NEG MOUSECODE_1_X_POS MOUSECODE_1_Y_NEG MOUSECODE_1_Y_POS MOUSECODE_1_X_NEG MOUSECODE_1_Y_NEG MOUSECODE_1_X_POS MOUSECODE_1_X_NEG
                </newseq>
            </port>
            <port type="P1_JOYSTICK_LEFT" mask="128" index="19" defvalue="0">
                <newseq type="standard">
                    MOUSECODE_1_X_POS MOUSECODE_1_Y_POS NOT MOUSECODE_1_X_POS MOUSECODE_1_Y_POS MOUSECODE_1_X_POS MOUSECODE_1_Y_POS MOUSECODE_1_Y_NEG MOUSECODE_1_X_NEG MOUSECODE_1_Y_NEG MOUSECODE_1_X_POS MOUSECODE_1_X_NEG MOUSECODE_1_Y_POS NOT MOUSECODE_1_X_POS
                </newseq>
            </port>
        </input>
    </system>
</mameconfig>

When I tried to map an OR combination, it changed ROTATE LEFT from "mouse gobbledygook" to "Enter", so I asked here, but now that I know it's possible, I'll see if I have any better luck with my home (real) PC.

[u_rebelscum]

My work, errmmmn test system does not like reading the mouse inputs at all.

I simplified my earlier response, but when I spun the mouse, my unmodified .cfg file looked like this:[snip]

When I tried to map an OR combination, it changed ROTATE LEFT from "mouse gobbledygook" to "Enter", so I asked here, but now that I know it's possible, I'll see if I have any better luck with my home (real) PC.

Works fine on my laptop, except if I try to map a normal mouse or touchpad X axis for example, the Y axis is included with lots of NOT or ORs or ANDs.  Hand editing the cfg file gets rid of the extra Y axis junk.

Your example has 15 words per input: the max is 16, and to add a button, you need "OR" & the button.  If the number words goes above 16, mame drops the old settings and just goes with the new.  And 15+2 = 17 > 16, so that's why you lose the mouse inputs.  Did you try it in the order in my reply (key first then mouse)?  Does it make a difference?  (I ask because I usually only get between half to one dozen words when remapping a mouse axis to a digital input, so either order usually works for me.)

[Tiger-Heli]

Thanks Robin - it was much easier to configure on my home system.

The game that I wanted this for was Pirates.  It is supposed to be a joystick game, but the code is a pretty obvious rip of CABAL (the bootleg of CABAL is joystick-based) so I wanted it to play like a trackball game.  It works much better that way, but it makes it a bit too easy.

The code I used allows me to work with my home desktop computer.  The arrow keys or my joystick control panel can also be used.  Or for a quick one player game, I can use the PC mouse (Mouse 1) or for a more serious game my PC USB trackball (Mouse 2) or for a serious 2-player game, Player 1 on the first PC trackball and Player 2 on the second PC trackball (Mouse 3).

Also, I swapped buttons 2 and 3 b/c MAME has 2 as "duck and roll" and 3 as "Grenade" and I thought that was backwards, at least compared to CABAL.

Here's the .cfg file:

Code: [Select]

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!-- This file is autogenerated; comments and unknown tags will be stripped -->
<mameconfig version="10">
    <system name="pirates">
        <input>
            <port type="P1_JOYSTICK_UP" mask="1" index="1" defvalue="1">
                <newseq type="standard">
                    KEYCODE_UP OR MOUSECODE_1_Y_NEG OR MOUSECODE_2_Y_NEG
                </newseq>
            </port>
            <port type="P1_JOYSTICK_DOWN" mask="2" index="2" defvalue="2">
                <newseq type="standard">
                    KEYCODE_DOWN OR MOUSECODE_1_Y_POS OR MOUSECODE_2_Y_POS
                </newseq>
            </port>
            <port type="P1_JOYSTICK_LEFT" mask="4" index="3" defvalue="4">
                <newseq type="standard">
                    KEYCODE_LEFT OR MOUSECODE_1_X_NEG OR MOUSECODE_2_X_NEG
                </newseq>
            </port>
            <port type="P1_JOYSTICK_RIGHT" mask="8" index="4" defvalue="8">
                <newseq type="standard">
                    KEYCODE_RIGHT OR MOUSECODE_1_X_POS OR MOUSECODE_2_X_POS
                </newseq>
            </port>
            <port type="P1_BUTTON1" mask="16" index="5" defvalue="16">
                <newseq type="standard">
                    KEYCODE_LCONTROL OR MOUSECODE_1_BUTTON1
                </newseq>
            </port>
            <port type="P1_BUTTON2" mask="32" index="6" defvalue="32">
                <newseq type="standard">
                    KEYCODE_SPACE OR MOUSECODE_1_BUTTON3
                </newseq>
            </port>
            <port type="P1_BUTTON3" mask="64" index="7" defvalue="64">
                <newseq type="standard">
                    KEYCODE_LALT OR MOUSECODE_1_BUTTON2
                </newseq>
            </port>
            <port type="P2_JOYSTICK_UP" mask="256" index="9" defvalue="256">
                <newseq type="standard">
                    KEYCODE_R OR MOUSECODE_3_Y_NEG
                </newseq>
            </port>
            <port type="P2_JOYSTICK_DOWN" mask="512" index="10" defvalue="512">
                <newseq type="standard">
                    KEYCODE_F OR MOUSECODE_3_Y_POS
                </newseq>
            </port>
            <port type="P2_JOYSTICK_LEFT" mask="1024" index="11" defvalue="1024">
                <newseq type="standard">
                    KEYCODE_D OR MOUSECODE_3_X_NEG
                </newseq>
            </port>
            <port type="P2_JOYSTICK_RIGHT" mask="2048" index="12" defvalue="2048">
                <newseq type="standard">
                    KEYCODE_G OR MOUSECODE_3_X_POS
                </newseq>
            </port>
            <port type="P2_BUTTON2" mask="8192" index="14" defvalue="8192">
                <newseq type="standard">
                    KEYCODE_Q
                </newseq>
            </port>
            <port type="P2_BUTTON3" mask="16384" index="15" defvalue="16384">
                <newseq type="standard">
                    KEYCODE_S
                </newseq>
            </port>
        </input>
    </system>
</mameconfig>


Your example has 15 words per input: the max is 16, and to add a button, you need "OR" & the button.  If the number words goes above 16, mame drops the old settings and just goes with the new.  And 15+2 = 17 > 16, so that's why you lose the mouse inputs. 

Wow - I never would have realized that!!!

Did you try it in the order in my reply (key first then mouse)? 

Not on the work computer.  I did try that on the home computer, although on the home computer - I basically ended up spinning ANY mouse to get the directionals assigned to something other than default (so they showed up in the pirates.cfg file) and then hand-editing the file to what I wanted (once I could see how the format was structured).

Does it make a difference?  (I ask because I usually only get between half to one dozen words when remapping a mouse axis to a digital input, so either order usually works for me.)

I'm not sure if it would have made a difference or not.  Now that you explained the problem, I think I might have ended up with only the button input if I moved the mouse first, and only the mouse gobbledy-gook if I input the button first.

Although I think you hit it correctly with your initial reply:

You have to spin it fast and far enough within the second or so you have to remap.  (But not too fast so you get back spin. )  Very much like remapping any mouse axis to a normal analog axis (which seems to work easier on some systems than others).

At first, I was not spinning it fast enough to register, so nothing was added.

Spin it too FAR and you get MOUSECODE_1_X_POS MOUSECODE_1_X_POS MOUSECODE_1_X_POS ...

Spin it too fast or not quite in a straight line, and you get all the NEG inputs, NOT codes, and Y-Axis stuff.

With practice on the home computer, I actually got it to register correctly "MOUSECODE_3_Y_NEG" only ONCE, and I suspect experience explains why you only got about 6 words and I was getting 15.

Since we're looking at curiosity things, do you have any idea what the various

Code: [Select]

mask="16384" index="15" defvalue="16384"etc. values mean?

[u_rebelscum]

Thanks Robin - it was much easier to configure on my home system.

The game that I wanted this for was Pirates.  It is supposed to be a joystick game, but the code is a pretty obvious rip of CABAL (the bootleg of CABAL is joystick-based) so I wanted it to play like a trackball game.  It works much better that way, but it makes it a bit too easy.

I'll have to try that game.  I tested on scrolling games (rastan) and control wasn't good.

You have to spin it fast and far enough within the second or so you have to remap.  (But not too fast so you get back spin. )  Very much like remapping any mouse axis to a normal analog axis (which seems to work easier on some systems than others).

At first, I was not spinning it fast enough to register, so nothing was added.

Spin it too FAR and you get MOUSECODE_1_X_POS MOUSECODE_1_X_POS MOUSECODE_1_X_POS ...

Spin it too fast or not quite in a straight line, and you get all the NEG inputs, NOT codes, and Y-Axis stuff.

With practice on the home computer, I actually got it to register correctly "MOUSECODE_3_Y_NEG" only ONCE, and I suspect experience explains why you only got about 6 words and I was getting 15.

That makes sense.  But to be able to hit the speed perfectly?

Since we're looking at curiosity things, do you have any idea what the various

Code: [Select]

mask="16384" index="15" defvalue="16384"etc. values mean?

Index is which number of the input "port" in the driver's input port input list.
Mask is which bit (or bits which analog) is changed.
Defvalue is the default value if nothing is pushed.  (for digital single bit inputs, it's either the same as mask ("active low") or zero ("active high"); spinner & trackball have no (zero) default; analog joystick & lightgun usually default in the center of the range; pedals are usually the mask or zero)

They are game specific, and ignored if copied into default.cfg or a ctrlr file.

Example from marble madness:
snip from cfg/marble.cfg:

Code: [Select]

<port type="P1_TRACKBALL_X" mask="255" index="1" defvalue="0">
<port type="P1_TRACKBALL_Y" mask="255" index="3" defvalue="0">
<port type="P2_TRACKBALL_X" mask="255" index="5" defvalue="0">
<port type="P2_TRACKBALL_Y" mask="255" index="7" defvalue="0">
<port type="START1" mask="1" index="9" defvalue="1">
<port type="START2" mask="2" index="10" defvalue="2">
<port type="COIN1" mask="1" index="21" defvalue="1">
<port type="COIN2" mask="2" index="22" defvalue="2">
<port type="COIN3" mask="4" index="23" defvalue="4">
snip from /src/mame/drivers/atarisy1.c:

Code: [Select]

INPUT_PORTS_START( marble )
0 PORT_START  /* F20000 */
1    PORT_BIT( 0xff, 0x00, IPT_TRACKBALL_X ) ... PORT_PLAYER(1)

2 PORT_START  /* F20002 */
3    PORT_BIT( 0xff, 0x00, IPT_TRACKBALL_Y ) ... PORT_PLAYER(1)

4 PORT_START  /* F20004 */
5    PORT_BIT( 0xff, 0x00, IPT_TRACKBALL_X ) ... PORT_PLAYER(2)

6 PORT_START  /* F20006 */
7    PORT_BIT( 0xff, 0x00, IPT_TRACKBALL_Y ) ... PORT_PLAYER(2)

8 PORT_START /* F60000 */
9 PORT_BIT( 0x0001, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_START1 )
10 PORT_BIT( 0x0002, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_START2 )
11 PORT_BIT( 0x0004, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_UNUSED )
12 PORT_BIT( 0x0008, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_UNUSED )
13 PORT_BIT( 0x0010, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_VBLANK )
14 PORT_BIT( 0x0020, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_UNUSED )
15 PORT_SERVICE( 0x0040, IP_ACTIVE_LOW )
16 PORT_BIT( 0x0080, IP_ACTIVE_HIGH, IPT_SPECIAL )
17 PORT_BIT( 0xff00, IP_ACTIVE_LOW, IPT_UNUSED )
...
Notice the index # matches the number I added to the driver code, the mask = the hex number right after "PORT_BIT( ####" except in decimal.

[jace055]

Another "Updated Info" bump:

For those who haven't noticed, The Mini-Racers have been revised due to supply issues with the original style.

As a result, we can now offer 3 different sizes.  The original 5", as well as a 6" and 7" version.  The bigger wheels look just like the small ones but are larger (who'd have guessed  )  Exact dimensions are included in a table at the site.

If you have the room on your CP (I don't  ) and can swing the extra cost, the bigger wheels might be a consideration.

RandyT

Randy,

I would love to see a picture with all three wheel sizes next to each other with something in the pic for a size comparison. I have seen the table at GGG with the sizes but I can't seem to grasp the size differences. 

From reading the entire thread, it looks like alot of the people with the 5" wheel wish they bought the 7".

Thanks in advance

[zedhead]

Hi all...just to confirm, if I would like to have 2 spinners (and two 5" wheels) and want to be able to use them both at the same time (with 2 players), I would purchase one TT2 (master) and one TT2 slave (plus the 2 wheel addons)? How about if you wanted to run 3 or 4 spinners (with wheels) would the extra spinners be slaves or would you need another master?

Thanks for any insight you can provide.

cheers,

Zed

[RandyT]

Hi all...just to confirm, if I would like to have 2 spinners (and two 5" wheels) and want to be able to use them both at the same time (with 2 players), I would purchase one TT2 (master) and one TT2 slave (plus the 2 wheel addons)? How about if you wanted to run 3 or 4 spinners (with wheels) would the extra spinners be slaves or would you need another master?

Each TT2 Master can support up to 3 spinners.  However, one must be aware of any possible MAME / OS limitations on the Z-Axis sensitivity.  If you are going for 4 wheels, you'll need 2 Master Units anyway (X and Y axes on both units), so that would be the best solution for that configuration.

RandyT

[zedhead]

Thanks Randy, I just placed my order for two spinners and two 5" wheels.

cheers! 

[kronic24601]

so ... any 9" wheels coming out anytime soon?