Author Topic: Very Basic CP Layout - Comments?? [FINAL CP Design - PICS!] (Read 2491 times)

javeryh · « **on:** November 26, 2006, 10:33:33 am »

I am building a vertical mini cab for my daughter. I need the thing to be as simple as possible to operate. I've attached my initial CP design and I think it covers everything. I'm still torn on whether to put a "coin" button on the cab because I'm installing a working coin door and I'd like to be able to give her $5 (for example) and say "play until it's gone" or something as a way to limit her time with the arcade (and force her to get good!).

The CP is 18.5" wide and roughly 6" tall although I can play with the height if necessary. Also, I'm limited to 8 buttons because I'm using the wiring harness for the ultimarc 360. I plan to put labels on each of the buttons too. Any thoughts or comments?

dynamite · « **Reply #1 on:** November 26, 2006, 11:23:32 am »

About the coin button, you could still add one on the CP but just have a switch inside the coin door that would turn it on or off when just she was playing. If you wanted more buttons you could try doing a simple keyboard hack as the extra buttons such as insert coin probably won't be pressed at the same time as many other buttons and you wouldn't get key ghosting.

Layout looks great though!

javeryh · « **Reply #2 on:** November 26, 2006, 09:19:06 pm »

Quote from: dynamike on November 26, 2006, 11:23:32 am

About the coin button, you could still add one on the CP but just have a switch inside the coin door that would turn it on or off when just she was playing. If you wanted more buttons you could try doing a simple keyboard hack as the extra buttons such as insert coin probably won't be pressed at the same time as many other buttons and you wouldn't get key ghosting.

Layout looks great though!

Great idea - I think I'll give it a shot.

I made a mock-up of the CP and I'm not sure about the top row of buttons. All the buttons will be black to match the CP so it will look different. Also, the paired buttons will be 1/8" closer than they are in the mock-up. What do you think? I might group 4 buttons all the way to the left with the exit button to the far right but I don't know.

miles2912 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 27, 2006, 12:32:02 am »

2 Player start? Where is the second player?

D-

deadkenndys1105 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 27, 2006, 01:18:44 am »

Does pacman have controls for player 2? Does galaga? Does Dig Dug? Does well you get my point. I really hate having coin, exit and pause controls on my CP. I am able to use my keyboard because I dont have a bottom pannel of the CP. Also it makes it easyer to switch the mag-stick. The downfall is that if you not carefull you can hit you wires. If you dont want to do my idea just put the extra buttons on the top of the cabinet or under the CP.

leapinlew · « **Reply #5 on:** November 27, 2006, 01:34:38 am »

Quote from: deadkenndys1105 on November 27, 2006, 01:18:44 am

Does pacman have controls for player 2? Does galaga? Does Dig Dug? Does well you get my point.

yes? I'm not sure what your point is... those are 1 player alternating games. So, player 1 and player 2 share controls. You can still play a 2 player game - you just have to hot seat it.

As for the row of buttons. Your call. I don't think it looks bad - I think grouped together would be better. Perhaps you can have an instruction card printed on the artwork of the CP to help folks.

deadkenndys1105 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 27, 2006, 01:45:47 am »

Quote from: leapinlew on November 27, 2006, 01:34:38 am

Quote from: deadkenndys1105 on November 27, 2006, 01:18:44 am
Does pacman have controls for player 2? Does galaga? Does Dig Dug? Does well you get my point.

yes? I'm not sure what your point is... those are 1 player alternating games. So, player 1 and player 2 share controls. You can still play a 2 player game - you just have to hot seat it.

He asked were player 2 was. I figured it was implyed that they were alternating because of the examples I was using. I guess my bad

javeryh · « **Reply #7 on:** November 27, 2006, 09:50:09 am »

Thanks for the cooments guys.

The buttons are (from left to right):
Player 1 Start
Player 2 Start
Coin
Pause
Exit to Front End

I don't like a cluttered panel either but the reason I am including all of these buttons right on the face is because this thing has to be simple to operate. The primary player is going to be my daughter when she is old enough to understand (she's 2 now). I plan on labeling each button with vinyl stickers in as large of a font as possible.

This is going to be mainly a one player cabinet but I would still like to be able to play alternating games like Pac-man - this is why there is a Player 2 start button on the CP. When I get home tonight I'll try grouping the 4 buttons to the far left in a line (and keep the exit button to the far right). I'll also see if I can install the joystick and action buttons so you can see exactly how it will look...

Am I missing any admin buttons or anything that will make things easier? I'm using an Ultimarc 360 for the joystick and I'm going to see about loading the different maps based on the game selected (I think this is a Mala feature) so the right controls will always be installed no matter what game is chosen.

javeryh · « **Reply #8 on:** November 27, 2006, 06:10:35 pm »

OK, I revised the CP layout. What do you think? I asked MikeDeuce to make me some pink vinyl button labels to go on the black admin buttons and to match the pink action buttons if he can.

Thoughts?

quarterback · « **Reply #9 on:** November 27, 2006, 09:23:38 pm »

I like this layout better than your original.

Personally, I prefer that arrangement of 3 buttons to the one on your first layou. I also like the grouping of your buttons. Even though 4 of them are close to each other, the worst thing that could happen if you push the wrong one is that you pause the game. Having the Exit button completely separate is a smart move.

javeryh · « **Reply #10 on:** November 28, 2006, 08:55:21 am »

Thanks! I think I like the second one better too. I made another tweak by swapping the top row of buttons just to see how it would look but I think I am going to stick with design #2 unless anyone has any major concerns with it.

This one looks too cluttered on the right with the admin buttons on top of the action buttons...

_) (V) (-) · « **Reply #11 on:** November 28, 2006, 09:35:15 am »

Just my $0.02

Most kids know where the ESC key on the keyboard lives, and what it does.
Might be easer if the QUIT to FE button was in the upper left hand corner.

You could also 'stack' em down the side and put the labels next to em:

O esc
O P1
O P2
O pause

Stobe · « **Reply #12 on:** November 28, 2006, 09:37:01 am »

I like this most recent one the best. Since the right hand is more often free, it makes more sense to put the coin and P1 button on that side.

If you needed to free up a button (of your

for something else, you could always get rid of pause. I'm building a cab for my daughter, and I can't imagine her getting into a game so much that she would have to pause it. 3 Lives on pac-man take her about 45 seconds

But if no other buttons are needed, then pause would be my next choice. (Ah, I see now, its for the parent, not the child!... The pause button should be on top of the cab where the child can't reach it!) Dinner time NOW!)

-Stobe

javeryh · « **Reply #13 on:** November 28, 2006, 09:52:56 am »

WOW!!! You guys are awesome. These are fantastic ideas! The reason I reversed the buttons to begin with was because I thought having the ESC button in the upper left would be really out of the way and there's no way someone would accidentally hit it - I just didn't like the way the other 4 buttons lined up on the top. Of course it never dawned on me to make them vertical... I also moved the action buttons and joystick to te left a little so my right hand wouldn't be resting where the admin buttons are.

I might have to make the CP a bit taller but I think I have the room - as it stands now 6.5" might be tight for four buttons because I need to leave at least .75" on the bottom to accomodate the panel for the front of the CP.

Here's another mockup:

More thoughts?!?!?

javeryh · « **Reply #14 on:** November 29, 2006, 07:27:21 am »

Hmm.... I drilled out the admin buttons and the CP looks a little tall proportion-wise. I'm going to finish making it tonight and see what it looks like.

javeryh · « **Reply #15 on:** November 29, 2006, 12:47:23 pm »

OK, a little more detail on where I am. I started to make a mock-up CP last night and the button layout forced the height of the CP to be 6-7/8" tall which seems a little high. I have room for it but that means there is a lot of dead space on the CP (which I could use to install a spinner - thanks for the idea leapinlew) so I'm not sure overall how it will look. I'm going to go ahead and finish drilling out the holes for the action buttons and joystick (which is arriving today!) and maybe even cover it in black vinyl to see what the "finished CP" will look like.

I'm also not sure where exactly to put the joystick and action buttons - how far apart should they be? I'm going to center them from top to bottom but I'm not sure how close to each other they should be...

If I decide to scrap it, no big deal - it only takes an hour or so to layout the buttons and drill out the holes...

Another CP design to shrink the overall height:

ahofle · « **Reply #16 on:** November 29, 2006, 12:52:08 pm »

I wasn't going to suggest this because it would have only saved one button spot, but since you are running into problems with the extra admin button...I would suggest putting the coin button on the front of the CP, facing the player. It will still keep your nice clean vertical line of admin buttons on the right and minimize the CP height. Also, pressing the coin button in that manner is fairly similar to how you would actually insert a coin. Like this:

quarterback · « **Reply #17 on:** November 29, 2006, 12:57:35 pm »

Quote from: ahofle on November 29, 2006, 12:52:08 pm

I wasn't going to suggest this because it would have only saved one button spot, but since you are running into problems with the extra admin button...I would suggest putting the coin button on the front of the CP,

I was thinking the same thing (about losing the coin button).

While I looked at putting some of my buttons in a vertial orientation at one point, I decided I didn''t really like it. I'd put the three buttons across the top and a coin button on the front OR use a coin door if you have one. Having a working coin door, IMO, adds to the arcadiness of a cab.

quarterback · « **Reply #18 on:** November 29, 2006, 01:10:15 pm »

I just re-read your original post and saw that you are putting a working coin door in. I'd just use that. Here's a quick 'edit' of your cp in the way I described in the last post.

miles2912 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 29, 2006, 04:03:50 pm »

After playing for a year I am a huge fan of the coin button on the CP. I would make some room by the pause button or just forget pause and go with a coin button instead. I rarely use the pause button but it is nice if I get a phone call in the middle of a game or the wife calls for something.

I guess I didn't get the 2 player buttons because of the single person layout and when we play pac-man or galaga it is always 1 person at a time. It is prolly best to have the second button there.. and you can always swap it out for something else if you need to.

D-

javeryh · « **Reply #20 on:** November 29, 2006, 04:43:50 pm »

Hmmm... thanks for the comments. Even though I am going to have a coin door I still think I want a coin button on the CP so it's simple for my daughter to use. If this weren't for her I'd probably ditch it. This is also why I'm not going with mini-buttons for the admin buttons.

As for putting the coin button on the front part of the CP, that's an excellent idea except that panel isn't perpendicular to the ground - it slopes down and away from the player. Plus, I think it might be a little confusing. This is the profile:

The pencil lines show the layout for the CP panels. I'm really torn on this because I want it to look good but mainly be functional and easy to operate. I'm going to finish the mock-up tonight with the 4 buttons lined up vertically on the right and see how it looks. Hopefully I can live with it or else I'll have to start playing around with the design (again)....

ahofle · « **Reply #21 on:** November 29, 2006, 05:00:55 pm »

FWIW my CP is slanted slightly too. I'm not sure why that would dissuade you though. I also used black coin buttons (3 of them since this is a 3 player panel) so they blend in with the black CP and do not stick out at all. I don't think it's very confusing -- my 3 year old even knows the drill now (press coin button, then press the player 1 button then game on).

javeryh · « **Reply #22 on:** November 30, 2006, 08:44:10 am »

Well, it's time for the daily update. Last night I finished making a mock-up of the CP with the 4 buttons on the right. Here it is:

The top of the CP is right at where the bottom of the T-square is located. The bottom of the CP more or less goes right to the bottom of the panel (I just need to rip it straight but if you look closely you can see the pencil line). Also note that all of the admin buttons will be black on the final CP - I just didn't have enough extra lying around.

I'm thinking it is one button too tall and that I need to seriously consider relocating or removing the coin button so only 3 buttons are on the right. It's not that I don't have the room for it - this is strictly on proportions by eyeballing it.

Any thoughts/comments?

quarterback · « **Reply #23 on:** November 30, 2006, 11:19:56 am »

Quote from: javeryh on November 30, 2006, 08:44:10 am

I'm thinking it is one button too tall and that I need to seriously consider relocating or removing the coin button so only 3 buttons are on the right. It's not that I don't have the room for it - this is strictly on proportions by eyeballing it.

Any thoughts/comments?

I think you're right. Like I said, I toyed with the vertical-row idea but I didn't end up liking it. Clearly it's up to you but I'd still recommend putting the P1 and P2 horizontally in the center at the top. You could leave pause and coin on the right (either vertically or horizontally)

Looks cool, BTW. It's fun seeing these things come together after looking at drawings for days.

javeryh · « **Reply #24 on:** December 04, 2006, 09:31:27 am »

OK, I didn't have much time over the weekend to work (stupid trees dropping leaves all over the place) but I did get a chance to make my final* control panel. I went with a similar layout as the test one I made above but I ended up dropping one of the buttons on the right. The panel looks way more proportioned now and it's just an all around better design. I did have to sacrifice the "coin" button but I am going to be installing a working coin door so my daughter will just have to figure it out. I might wire the player 2 coin return to act as a "coin" button if I find that inserting quarters is too much of a pain. I'll also mount a switch on the inside to toggle this on and off so she isn't "free playing" all the time.

Anyway, here are some pictures of the panel with everything cut:

Here's one of the joystick bottom installed in the routed area:

Here is the CP with everything installed (the bottom edge of the t-square is the top of the CP). Also note that I will be covering the entire control panel with black vinyl, the bottom edge has yet to be rounded over to meet the control panel front and all of the admin buttons will be black and have pink vinyl labeling.

Finally, here is a comparison of the old design and the new one:

Thanks for looking!!

* subject to change

javeryh · « **Reply #25 on:** December 06, 2006, 06:15:22 pm »

Any thoughts as to whether I should go with a simple black vinyl overlay (with button labels) or should I try and maybe add some type of artwork?


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