P360's : The 411

[Amra]

Ok you guys,the UPS guy knocked on my door today and delivered my P360's, and since there seems to be a lack of knowledge about these joysticks, I figured I would help eliviate this lack of information by giving a detailed pictorial of the design and construction of these beautiful babies!

Picture #1


This is how they came packed, in a box filled with newspapers.  They are nicely packed, and tightly packed, no way for them to bang around in the box and get damaged during shipping.  Kudos to Happs Controls for that!

Picture #2


The package came with four things, A paper explaining how to put it together (scanned and placed at the bottom of this post), a bag of the small parts, the base, and finally the teardrop shaft.
 
Picture #3


I took this pic really just to give you an Idea about how long the shaft is, for refrence I put a ruler beside it, it is almost 6 inches exact.

Picture #4


I took this pic to show how far apart the mounting holes need to be.  Exactly 3" apart, and exactly 3/16th of an Inch, or 0.1875 or about 4.7mm.  (5mm will prolly work).

Picture #5


This is to show you the Joystick assembled, note the spring thickness, it is pretty thick, this this joystick is pretty tight, which personally I like, but I am not everyone.  The spring is not too difficult to remove and if somone wants, I will show how to remove it.

Picture #6


This pic is the Wiring picture, The P360's are almost idiot proof, they are labeled both on the plastic and the board.  You do NOT need to daisy chain a ground for these, as the single ground lead if for all four directions, just wire each one, run power, and poof your done, not too complicated at all.

Picture #7


This is the picture that shows how to assemble it.  Note in yellow, that you need the WIDE side facing down, as if you assemble it facing up, your new P360 will STICK if not right away, within a week of use.  If all else fails, READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!  hehe

Well, Im going to play with these for a little while, if there is anything you want to know, like length/size of base, size of connectors (which are small spade terminals) then dont hesitate to ask, ill be more then happy to try and help

Im going to start working on my Control Panel next week, I will post pictures when Im done (when is anything truly done?)

Hope this helps someone!

[Jakobud]

I don't know much about these joysticks.  The website says they are good for 45* or 90* 4-way or 8-way games....so is there any sort of rotation of the joystick involved to get these things?  How does the 4-way work? Restrictor plates? Or does it just sense the 4-way movement only in that 'mode'?  I think that restriction of movement is the most authentic way to get true 4-way movement for the classics....

[Amra]

Good Question!

The 4 Way and the 8 Way "Feel" the same, the same control, the same range, the only diffrence is using the smaller side, it doesnt 'catch' the corners, so in that sence its the same as the other 4/8 Way joysticks that use microswitches, it catches the sides, but too small to catch the corners.

[OSCAR]

I don't know much about these joysticks.  The website says they are good for 45* or 90* 4-way or 8-way games....so is there any sort of rotation of the joystick involved to get these things?  How does the 4-way work? Restrictor plates? Or does it just sense the 4-way movement only in that 'mode'?  I think that restriction of movement is the most authentic way to get true 4-way movement for the classics....

Hey Jakobud!

Happ's page says "Precise 45

[Amra]

Nice Diagram there Oscar, thanks!

Very expanitory, infact, it really does now make perfect sence!

[AceTKK]

have you encountered any problems finding the diagonals in fast-paced fighting games?  I've heard that folks who use the Supers sometimes find it difficult to hit "down-left" to block because of the way the actuator is designed.  Is this problem still evident with the P360's?  I'm going with Competitions b/c I like feeling the corners for fighters.

-Ace-

[Amra]

You dont really "feel" the corners, but then thats perfect for me, so if you really like to be able to find the corners easily, then no this joystick is not for you...

[MAMEDUDE]

Hey man, I'm not nuts about the relatively short control throws of the Happ supers- let alone the damn click of the cherry switches-  I remember sticks like that on machines being used like directional fire buttons.  Anyway, I would really like to use p360s with an IPAC2, but as far as I know I would be over budget by about 5 volts, given the keyboard on a PC draws only 5, and using two p360s would require 10? Am I right about that? Is that why everybody uses cherry switch controllers with an IPAC?

[shmokes]

My Perfect 360's also arrived today.  Thanks a lot.  This thread will be extremely helpful.  I now have just about everything for my cabinet and control panels except the wood, which I'll be picking up tomorrow, and some other items such as lexan and plexi.  The build up has been enormous.  I've been planning (mostly in my head) and saving for more than a year.  I've been ordering parts and acquiring tools for the past month and a half.  I only started participating in this message board about the time that I started ordering parts, etc.  but construction begins this weekend.

I'm a newbie to both woodworking and wiring.  I'm extremely excited and probably getting in way over my head on the complexity of my cabinet, so it'll definitely take a while to complete.

Thank you all for the immeasurable help you've already provided.  Simply put, I literally could not have done this without all of you (heh, who knows, maybe I'll find that I can't even do this WITH all of you   ).  

Also, a warning:

I started posting...asking questions...making comments, etc. about the time that I started ordering parts and really making a commitment to do this thing.  I apologize in advance.  I'm going to have A LOT more questions when I run into REAL-LIFE roadblocks instead of theoretical ones in my head.  I'll consult the faq and search the threads for everything, but you know how that goes sometimes.  No two problems are exactly alike and so on...

So once again thank you all for the past and both a big "THANK YOU"  and a big "I'M SORRY" for how much you'all will hear from me over the next month.

Hmmm.....now that I think about it, no one is going to read this unless they're particularly interested in P360 sticks.  Oh well...

[Druin]

Anyway, I would really like to use p360s with an IPAC2, but as far as I know I would be over budget by about 5 volts, given the keyboard on a PC draws only 5, and using two p360s would require 10? Am I right about that? Is that why everybody uses cherry switch controllers with an IPAC?

No, voltage isn't added up like that in a circuit like this.  When you're tapping a single power source to run several units like this, you connect them all in parallel with the 5 volt supply, meaning, every unit's +5v terminal is connected to the +5 power supply terminal, and all the grounds connect to the power supply ground (parallel)...so the Ipac, and Joystick 1, and Joystick 2, all have their +5v wired to each other and to the +5v supply...each unit sees 5 volts then.  

The current is what adds up with more devices added to the supply.  Depending what's powering the IPac, if there's enough current, you can chain as many devices as you like in parallel with the power supply.  

I'm guessing the IPac uses just a few mA of current, and the optics in the joysticks could be from 5mA to 20mA per optical unit......let's say it's efficient and is 5mA per optic unit, then suppose you have 2 optic units in one joystick activated at a time, 2 joysticks give 4 optic units activated, that's 20mA maybe drawn by the pair of joysticks, give IPac 5mA as well maybe.  So about 25mA plus some safety margin to power all that stuff on the same 5Volt source.

If this 5 volt supply comes from the keyboard port or the USB port, I don't know what the current rating is, but if you're using a power adapter, should be no problem.

[Druin]

Hmmm.....now that I think about it, no one is going to read this unless they're particularly interested in P360 sticks.  Oh well...

Well I read it all with enthusiasm because I am also just beginning my cabinet after much lurking around the scene.  I started thinking about the cabinet in 1998/1999 (when I was still a student and could never afford it) and now that I moved to a house and have been working 2 years, I finally started going through the example links and plotting the dream cabinet.  

I'm going to attempt a version of 1uP's rotating panel but I'm going to try locking it in position with solenoids rather than sitting it on the front door/metal plate latch....and I have a 17" LCD monitor which I'm going to rotate with a DC motor, automatically per game if it requires this orientation (auto-detect by sensing mame command line -rotate parameter in a batch file and run an optional parallel port utility to command the motor)....

I did a test mockup of the rotating monitor here:

http://members.rogers.com/jpdesign/misc/lcd.html

I've scoped out the local Home depot and another home store and I can get 5/8 melamine, which I intend to use, and I was reading some info that suggests a good way to cut it is make the cuts 1/8" too long, then router it with a straight bit, so I'm going to try that (when I buy a router)... I'll be getting the wood in the next few weeks hopefully.

Today I placed my order with StarBurstCoin, for the happs trackball, 4player coin door, 2 Rotary Mechanical joysticks, etc....and I'll buy the buttons on pick-up when I go in.

I figure it's about time I build a cabinet AND some rotary joysticks, after my involvement with the "Rotary Interface"  for almost 3 years!  haha.

I have to order the Tmolding and router bit too, once I commit to the wood and guarantee my width required.

May we both be well rewarded.  I can handle the electrical but I have never worked with wood and have no idea what to expect.

[shmokes]

Heh...how ironic.  My first purchase for my cabinet, about a month and a half ago, was none other than.....A Druin interface.

I too am going to attempt a 1up, but don't think I'll try to vary from the plans too much.  I have no experience and the Melamine is super expensive.  I'm paying $38 per sheet.  I won't actually try to wire everything up, until the cab is built and the control panels are coming together, though, so I probably won't have too many questions for you until then.  

Keep in mind that you can't use the ACT-LABS light guns with an LCD monitor.  Might not matter, but it'd suck to find out the hard way if it does matter.

[Druin]

Keep in mind that you can't use the ACT-LABS light guns with an LCD monitor.  Might not matter, but it'd suck to find out the hard way if it does matter.

Yeah I read their web site recently but I decided it wouldn't affect me much, I never really was into the arcade light gun scene, EXCEPT back in the mid 80's 7-11 days, Cheyenne.....even back then it was rather unexciting, and that being the only gun game I played, I will let it slide...maybe I'll end up with 2 cabs overall to fulfill all needs...or else they will come out with an LCD compatible gun.

I'm mainly going for the 8 way shooter games....Contra, Gradius, Twin Cobra, Tiger Heli, 194x, Commando, Karnov, that sort of thing.  

I still haven't figured out how to integrate spy hunter controls in the cab though.  I must have a spy hunter panel, and I think I will go with a Xenophobe trigger stick for Xenophobe and Tron....must have the 2 thumb buttons for Xenophobe.

[slug54]

Most of the games I play were made pre 1984.
Can someone tell what are some of the good games
that utilize rotating sticks. Iv'e heard Ikari warriors tossed
around ,anything else worth checkin out.

                                Slug54

[Druin]

Most of the games I play were made pre 1984.
Can someone tell what are some of the good games
that utilize rotating sticks. Iv'e heard Ikari warriors tossed
around ,anything else worth checkin out.
                                Slug54

Ikari Warriors, Ikari III, Victory Road, Guerrilla War, Heavy Barrel, Time Soldiers, TNK III, Midnight Resistance, SAR - Search And Rescue, Gondomania, Bermuda Triangle, Downtown, Exterminator, Touchdown Fever, Caliber 50, XYBots, Tron, Forgotten Worlds, Mad Planets

[jerryjanis]

Can someone tell what are some of the good games
that utilize rotating sticks. Iv'e heard Ikari warriors tossed
around ,anything else worth checkin out.

Here is a pretty good list of games that use the rotary joysticks.  If anybody knows of more, post it here!:

http://home.attbi.com/~howert/rotary/

As far as which ones are good, probably they're all good in their own little ways...  Midnight Resistance is like Contra (a platform game) except that you can rotate the joystick to aim in any direction.  I like Downtown - it plays like Ikari Warriors except with fists and kicks instead of guns and grenades.  Exterminator is very very unique, but in my opinion that's not enough to make it fun.  Gondomania is a scrolling shooter.  Top gunner bootleg is pretty awesome - because it adds the rotary joystick to a game that didn't initially use it.  Most of the rest of the games operate pretty much the same as Ikari Warriors.

Personally, I wouldn't call any of the games particularly awesome, but it was pretty cool when somebody came into my home and recognized the joysticks and said, "whoa - you've even got those Ikari Warriors joysticks!" - I'd hate to be without them when somebody asks for them by name!

[Fat-Johnny]

Can someone tell what are some of the good games
that utilize rotating sticks.

Two words:  Heavy Barrel

Basically you run around an island, shooting enemies, collecting better weapons along the way.  You also collect keys, which open treasure chests.  Some tresure chests contain power-ups, weapons, and such.  But some treasure chests containg pieces to a gun.  Collect all 6 pieces to the gun, and you have the........(in my best video game voice).........HEAVVVYYYYYYYY  BARREL!!!!!!

You will always remember the first time you get the Heavy Barrel  

Have fun,
Fat Johnny

[MAMEDUDE]

Yeah, I realized right after I wrote it, the current will compound not the voltage. The IPAC is strictly a kind of (sorta) keyboard hack powered by the PC motherboard. The maximum current that can be drawn above what is needed to power the unit is 10mA. Most likely not enough for 360's which sucks if you want to do a USB device. That is probably one of the reasons, along with price, I never see these in a standalone CP. Thanks for the feedback.

Anyway, I would really like to use p360s with an IPAC2, but as far as I know I would be over budget by about 5 volts, given the keyboard on a PC draws only 5, and using two p360s would require 10? Am I right about that? Is that why everybody uses cherry switch controllers with an IPAC?

No, voltage isn't added up like that in a circuit like this.  When you're tapping a single power source to run several units like this, you connect them all in parallel with the 5 volt supply, meaning, every unit's +5v terminal is connected to the +5 power supply terminal, and all the grounds connect to the power supply ground (parallel)...so the Ipac, and Joystick 1, and Joystick 2, all have their +5v wired to each other and to the +5v supply...each unit sees 5 volts then.  

The current is what adds up with more devices added to the supply.  Depending what's powering the IPac, if there's enough current, you can chain as many devices as you like in parallel with the power supply.  

I'm guessing the IPac uses just a few mA of current, and the optics in the joysticks could be from 5mA to 20mA per optical unit......let's say it's efficient and is 5mA per optic unit, then suppose you have 2 optic units in one joystick activated at a time, 2 joysticks give 4 optic units activated, that's 20mA maybe drawn by the pair of joysticks, give IPac 5mA as well maybe.  So about 25mA plus some safety margin to power all that stuff on the same 5Volt source.

If this 5 volt supply comes from the keyboard port or the USB port, I don't know what the current rating is, but if you're using a power adapter, should be no problem.