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Author Topic: Help: Wire-outs for Frogger Isolation Transformer  (Read 1689 times)

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-Cypris-

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Help: Wire-outs for Frogger Isolation Transformer
« on: November 12, 2006, 10:50:10 am »
I wouldn't exactly call myself new to this industry. I'm 24 and have been doing arcade repair since i was 17. However 75% of my issues that result in me contacting outside help, are for self projects.

I have a Frogger cabinet and I am working on turning into something better. not sure "what", but that's not important. What is, is the fact its been sitting in my den, half a part for the better part of a year.  The only issue so far is the Original Power Supply Unit (i will refer to as PSU or $#&!!!! lol). So i have a Switching Regulating PSU (Happ) and I want to use that instead.

I re-crimped the connector that went into the old PSU so that they would work in the new one. Let me say that upon powering this thing up, I tripped the breaker in my den, and also blew the 2AMP MDL fuse that is in the Power Switch Box. How? I have some ideas. First off I misread A1 on the jamma-look-a-like connector as +5v and not -5v like it was, so it got grouped with the other +5v. My old tech manager said that shouldn't be enough to trip a house breaker.. but whatever. that's taken care of but i ain't giving that thing power until i know i have it right.

Now we move on to my big mistake. The Isolation transformer, which provided power to the fluorescent lighting, monitor, and it had 1 more plug.. not sure for what but it worked without it when i bought it.  So I snipped the AC outs on the isolation transformer without documenting. even worse, there are 3 wires, 2 black, 1 white... now that i think about it i believe my original thought was White was HOT and Black was Neutral. oops.

So what i need, is someone who can get me the Gremlin Frogger ISO. Transfrmr. Diagram, not the schematic. I need a pic with all the wires in the right spots showing me what they are.

If your asking "WHY DID HE CUT THE &(#% WIRES?!), the answer to that is the ISO. Transfrmr is mounted on the old PSU, and i didn't realize what i [or it] was doing. So in the wiring of the new PSU, i piggy backed the Monitor power on the AC in wires. Could this also be why i tripped a breaker? Once i get the wiring i will put the ISO Transfrmr back in and i will probably be asking a bunch more questions after that :)

So, for those of you who want the abridged version, I need to know, on a Gremlin Frogger Isolation Transformer, what wires do what, when referring to the AC Out (3 wires: 2 black, 1 white). I have my assumptions but id rather not assume and trip a breaker again, my room mate did not like me doin that.



Thanks for any and all help

Cypris

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Re: Help: Wire-outs for Frogger Isolation Transformer
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2006, 12:58:08 pm »
So, I suppose if i search through the manual enough times i JUST MIGHT find what i need. OK so i found a diagram of what i want. If anyone had anything to say about what i am trying to do, please do tell:)


Cypris

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Re: Help: Wire-outs for Frogger Isolation Transformer
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2006, 02:01:16 pm »
Piggy backing the monitor power on your AC wires could definately blow a fuse.   Without the isolation transformer you have could have taken your power to ground.   Not sure exactly how you wired it due to your white/black wire uncertaintly.   You may have also damaged the monitor depending on where the power went to ground.

Hope someone can help you out with putting the wiring back together.

BobA

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Re: Help: Wire-outs for Frogger Isolation Transformer
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2006, 07:28:49 pm »
its not an issue of "undoing it", i can do that, now anyways. And So I have come to this idea.. not my idea but hey it sounds good:

Remove Isolation Transformer from Power Supply
Connect the output from the line filter to a power distribution block.
Daisy chain the AC power wires (BLK & WHT) down the block so that 2 items can use AC Power
On the first set, connect AC to a Switching PSU
On the next, connect AC to the Isolation transformer, which will be used by the Light Ballast, and the Monitor.
On the Switching PSU, Connect your +12v, +5v, -5v, GND, etc to the Jamma-look-a-like.

voila! i am sure i am missing a step or 2 but I'm going through sleep dep right now.


-Cypris-


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Re: Help: Wire-outs for Frogger Isolation Transformer
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2006, 10:14:46 pm »
Sounds like the right method as long as you know which wires are which on the isolation transformer.

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Re: Help: Wire-outs for Frogger Isolation Transformer
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2006, 08:50:07 pm »
OK, Well, As i get the whole 'powering up = breaker popping' thing resolved, i find out that unless the fuse in the monitor is blown, the monitor needs repair,  and since the only thing on the game boards that use -5v is the $#&%*#%#$ processor, well i can assume thats probably all nice and toasty. to make things even BETTER, i see no physical damage, so i actually need to do an indepth diagnostic with a meter and a hammer. the hammer is for my hand. so i can stop myself from ever trying this again. lol jk.

So, what I ask now, is if anyone has delt with what i am dealing with. the chances are slim cuz what i did was amazingly retarded and this is the guest board. and also if anyone has any info on what i am dealing with, like what i need to look for, testing specific things, the correct spot to hit my hand so it doesnt heal right.. (jk again)

Cypris

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Re: Help: Wire-outs for Frogger Isolation Transformer
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2006, 06:53:59 pm »
I have been reading this thread, but not commenting as there is not enough infomation provided (e.g. how did you resolve the breaker issue ?)

At this point I can't say how what you did cooked your monitor or may have impacted your game board. My instinct is that in your initial rewiring, you had a short, but I can't really know until you let us know everything (and pics would help).

First thing to look to is that you are now getting proper power everywhere (from the PS, ISO, to the PCB). Are you testing these ?

Hope to help, just tell me more.

Cheers.
Working: Not Enough
Projects: Too Many
Progress: None

-Cypris-

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Re: Help: Wire-outs for Frogger Isolation Transformer
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2006, 06:58:06 am »
As a note, The main issue, the reason why i started this thread, which is in the title, has been resolved. My apologies too all who wanted to help me out, but couldn't due to my lack of information. I thought I had covered everything but I guess I was wrong.

To answer your questions though...
Quote
...(e.g. how did you resolve the breaker issue ?)...
The breaker issue was caused by the lack of an Isolation Transformer. During the swapping of the PSU's, I did not realize The new PSU did not do the job of a an Isolation Transformer, but that's my fault because I  leeched power off the AC IN wires on the new PSU to get power to the monitor. The breakers tripped was because the monitor was now able to ground itself to both chassis and earth ground, allowing a short between both grounds.

Quote
...At this point I can't say how what you did cooked your monitor...
The monitor was actually not cooked. a 3amp fuse blew before it could be damaged.  The lack of an Isolation Transformer may result in Monitor Chassis damage. (Source: Randy Fromm's Big Blue Book)

Quote
...or may have impacted your game board...
This damage has not yet been confirmed. 
A Double whammy occurred. I misread a voltage on my Meter, and also misread the voltage for the same output on the wiring harness's definitions  on the schematic. A1 on the harness is -5v, i thought it was +5v and twisted it with the 2 other +5v. I found out later from my previous tech manager (Jillians, Mall Of America) that I may have not damaged a thing, applying -5v 1amp to a circuit which is meant to have +5v 15amps, is very unlikely to do anything bad. I also followed the -5v input path on the PCB, and found it actually goes no where. a component needs to be soldered on the PCB for the -5v to continue its path. So +5v was never applied to any -5v components.

Quote
My instinct is that in your initial rewiring, you had a short,...
I did, The lack of an Isolation Transformer allowed earth ground be used.


Quote
...pics would help...
Even though the thread was started at like 10:50am, The whole thing took place at like 3:30am. So i spent that time lapse searching for a decent forum, at same time trying to figure out my error by myself. I guess in all the mess, I didn't think about taking pics.

And yes, all power sources  are fine.


But hey that's all irrelevant now that I am turning this thing into...something. An Arcade yes, most likely Mame, but I am also reconfiguring it for a different monitor and different viewing angle, I will be creating a thread about it once i get more done.


Cypris