To Apache: Product improvement

[RayB]

Apache Controls, I read the RetroBlast review of your spinner. One complaint was the grinding of the spinner against the up/down microswitches. Not only is it noisey, but I bet after a white it either grinds down the switch protrusion (it's made of plastic) and/or damages the switch functioning...

So I was wondering... why aren't you using this kind of switch.

[Patent Doc]

Ray B

I got this from Arcade Controls in the thread which posted Kev's review of the spinner http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=55290.msg543662#msg543662

I think it answers your question

Hi all,

In terms of microswitches...

The microswithes do make contact with the spindle top and botton on push and pull, so naturally that contact will continue if a player turns the knob at the same time when pushing or pulling. This is a rare case indeed, and does not inhibit game play, and in nearly all situations is not even noticeable.

With that said, our team tried a variety of concepts early on to determine the final implementation.

In the end, a series of decisions had to be made which kept in mind several key factors (1) Overall Quality (2) Gameplay/Responsiveness (3) Easy of Assembly/Manufacturing (4) Footprint Size and (4) Cost

Yes, we tried the roller switches. Turns out they are much more expensive than the regular ones, and made just as much noise if not more than the non-roller switch. Go figure.

Leaf switches were also considered, but they added higher cost, increased the overall footprint of the unit, and were much harder to obtain if people needed to swap parts out down the road. The Blackhawk uses standard size microswitches so it makes it much more flexible from a support perspective.

It is certainly feasible to add additional electronic components to the unit, and have a switch-less (proximity sensing) device in its place. This would eliminate any potential friction between components. While this was considered during the prototype phase of the Blackhawk, it was not chosen due to Cost and Assembly considerations.

In terms of the tooth count...

Original testing was done using a higher frequency count, and in the end 48 teeth was chosen due to the overall responsiveness on nearly all of the core games available for a spinner. Tempest, Discs of Tron and any other games all play exceptional with the Blackhawk. With that said, it isn't fair to compare this unit with a gear driven one from days gone past, they are two different animals. (Arkanoid for example). This game does work well with some slight adjustment on the sensitivity settings in software, but it won't compare with a gear spinner.

Listen to what customers who have already purchased their units will say as I am sure they will have feedback for the group to review.

This is a solid unit that is great fun to play...really it is!

 

  AC

I hope that helps answer your question.

Patent Doc

[RobotronNut]

sounds like they were mainly concerned with noise and cost, not longevity.

can they be retrofitted easily?

[apachecontrols]

Hey guys,

If you really want, the microswitches can be changed for any standard roller switch. Just note that when installing a roller switch, the slot holes do not align with the various top-name roller-switches out there today (Cherry, Honeywell, etc). Therefore, only 1 screw/nut is needed to secure each switch to the frame of the Blackhawk. It will require that you make sure to tighten the nut down pretty good to make sure the switch doesn't move over time.

Our team tried a variety of roller switches to see how this would work, and in the end, made the choice of using standard switches.

From a long-term testing perspective, the standard Cherry switch, with a plastic contact, will hold up extremely well, much better that you think. That is why, in the end, we selected the standard microswitch for the Blackhawk.

All of our customers today are using the standard microswitches. No-one is using a roller switch to our knowledge, but it is certainly workable if desired.

Solid quality and product longevity were key elements of our design.

Give the Blackhawk a try and we are confident you will agree this is the best spinner on the market.

 

   David

Apache Controls, LLC
Honeoye Falls, NY (USA)

ONLINE: www.apachecontrols.com
EMAIL: support@apachecontrols.com

[Kremmit]

It's not like it costs a lot to replace the microswitches in a few years if you ever manage to wear them down. 

[RobotronNut]

It's not like it costs a lot to replace the microswitches in a few years if you ever manage to wear them down. 

good point. probably simplest just to replace them if they ever wear out.

[RayB]

Thanks for the replies and the answer. I assumed am oiled roller switch would be quieter. Guess I was wrong!

Here's another question: Is the noise even audible when the spinner is in a closed controler panel / cabinet? I'll have to re-read the review, as I assume the test spinner was not in an enclosed cabinet...

[PoDunkMoFo]

Isn't the main purpose of a push pull spinner DOT?

Correct me if I am wrong but if I remember correctly you adjusting up and down aim with push pull and I don't remember doing this while spinning the knob.

Not like you are likely to be holding the knob up or down and spinning the thing ala tempest, no?

[erictrumpet]

As PoDunk said, spinning WHILE holding the knob up or down is something that I literally never do while spinning. Frankly I don't see how it's even possible, since you have to grasp the knob and pull (or push), and if it's in mid-spin, then when you grab it it will stop spinning, duh. I guess you can push or pull it, and then while holding it up or down (an awkward and unnecessary maneuver), intentionally grind it around slowly... but why the heck would you do this? As I said in my Blackhawk review thread in the hardware review board, I wasn't even aware of this "problem" until it was mentioned here, even after playing many hours of DOT (and other games) with my Blackhawk. Anyone who is worried about this issue, don't be. And Apache offers a satisfaction guarantee anyway, so go for it. Boy, we arcade builder hobbyist types sometimes go a little overboard with the pre-purchase research don't we? I am very guilty of this as well! This BYOAC board is awesome and the comeraderie can't be beat, but sometimes it makes us suffer from "Too Much Information" syndrome.

Eric.

[u_rebelscum]

...Not like you are likely to be holding the knob up or down and spinning the thing ala tempest, no?

One word: Forgotten Worlds. 

Okay, that was two words, and it was only a push spinner, not a push/pull spinner.  But you had to be able to spin while pushing the button/spinner.

Some of you might have only played this game with only buttons to spin, but it is much better with the spinner button.

[RobotronNut]

while playing discs of tron, i push and pull while turning the spinner. doesn't everybody?

[saint]

I have to admit I never knew DOT let you aim up and down. I probably would have done much better at the game if I did!

[Kremmit]

I have to admit I never knew DOT let you aim up and down. I probably would have done much better at the game if I did!

You only use it in later levels, so you have to be fairly good to even get a chance to try it.

[Xiaou2]

  For those who like to hack...

 You may try drill out the existing roller on a roller switch...  then
replace it with a nylon roller... or plastic bead of some sort.  Of
course having to re-pin it togeter with maybe a watch shaft
or simular..

 Again..   a pedal hack may be a great option instead... for those
with a non- up/down  spinner.

 Saint, I believe its either level  6 or 7 that enables  up/down aiming
on DOT.   Try using a cheat to get there if needed.

[RayB]

Boy, we arcade builder hobbyist types sometimes go a little overboard with the pre-purchase research don't we? I am very guilty of this as well! This BYOAC board is awesome and the comeraderie can't be beat, but sometimes it makes us suffer from "Too Much Information" syndrome.

I'd agree and laugh along if it weren't for the fact that: the price is high, there are shipping costs and we can't just drive 5 minutes to the store to return it.