Poll: Video games in home theater

[Purple Lemon]

Hello,

I am a graduate student taking a class on developing products.  I would like to get people’s opinions on a product to play classic video games in their home theater.

The product would be a mechanical stand that would rotate a flat screen by 90 degrees.  Please see the animated gif for how this would work.

My assumptions are the following:
  •  People want to play classic arcade games in their home theater, as it would be a friendly environment for having friends and family over to play.
  •  Players will play a game for a while, and then switch to playing a different game.
  •  Once people are sitting down in a couch, they don’t want to get up to go to a different room to play a different game.
  •  Wives and/or significant others may not want a video game cabinet in the middle of “their” living room, but would accept a device that is easily put away.
  •  Playing classic games in their native resolution is desirable.

Could you please help out my project and vote your preference? 

Thanks,
Purple Lemon

[leapinlew]

Couple issues here.

1. Authenticity - If we are shooting for authenticity here... playing in a living room environment 6+ feet away from the game screen isn't anywhere near as authentic. I don't know why people who would be concerned about authenticity enough to flip a screen would want to play in a media room environment to begin with.

2. Complexity - I already have enough issues with my wife trying to watch a DVD on the television. Adding a computer, changing to the proper video input, flipping the screen, and sound channel is something I have no desires to mess with.

3. Usage - my game cabinet is a game cabinet. I don't have to wait for Desperate Housewifes to end before I can play a quick game of Defender. When I want to play a game - it's right there... ready and available.

4. Looks - I like the looks of the game cabinets. I don't wish to hide it. I'm also concerned how I could install a computer, and control panel in a room and use it without having wires strewn about.

5. Market - the market for this would be small. Jakks has come up with a line of products that a large majority of people don't mind using. The whole orientation issue is lost on them. Hobbyist like us are concerned with authenticity. Some more so than others. I'd even wager that a large portion of the folks here don't mind playing vertical games on their horizontal screens.

If you are in a class to develop products, and you've zero'd in on arcade building. Perhaps you should talk to RandyT or Minwah. These are people who saw a market and developed a product. From what I can tell, developing a product for arcade gamers would be very tricky and there is very little money to be made. It's a "don't quit your day job" kinda hobby.

[Purple Lemon]

1. Authenticity

If you want authenticity, then this proposed product isn't the way to go.  The main point would be to make it look bigger for portrait games.

2. Complexity

Yes, this would obviously have to be completely automated so the computer would pick the best resolution for you.  After all, playing games is supposed to be fun, not frustrating.

3. Usage - my game cabinet is a game cabinet

True.  Switching from Desperate Housewives to Defender would have to be fairly quick.

4. Looks - I like the looks of the game cabinets

Yeah, so do I...  Unfortunately I married an interior designer.   

5. Market - the market for this would be small.

No delusions here...  I imagine it would be very small, but that doesn't bother me.  I'm more interested in building it because I want one.  Figuring out who else would want one is mainly for my graduate class.

[AtomSmasher]

Jakks has come up with a line of products that a large majority of people don't mind using. The whole orientation issue is lost on them. Hobbyist like us are concerned with authenticity. Some more so than others. I'd even wager that a large portion of the folks here don't mind playing vertical games on their horizontal screens.

Just thought I'd add that Jakks slightly modified some of the games to better fit horizontal screens.  Attached is a screenshot of Jakks version of Ms. Pac-Man which you can compare to the pacman image posted earlier.  This is part of the reason I'm not that big of a fan of Jakks games, they're copies, not ports, so a number of the little things are left out (like the enemies not firing during entry on level 10 of Galaga).

Anyways, I now have a seperate game room (no wife, so I can do what I want with my house  ) so I would have no need for this item.  I checked the build it myself box though, since that is probably what I would do (and is probably what most people here would do since this is a "build your own" forum)

[Fozzy The Bear]

Couple issues here.

Well Put Leapinlew.... Saves me typing it out 

Like his poll said: I have no idea who would want one of these! It's really the worst Idea for a product that we've seen on this forum for a long time.

Why is it that every few weeks we get some low post count student who thinks they can come in and use everybody here to do thier market research for a non existant product for them, because they can't be bothered to do it properly.

Purple Lemon.... we don't want it as a product, there is no market for it, and it will never exsist as a product anyway.

Just as a quick note: If you really want one of these, you can already buy a widescreen rotating computer monitor.

Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)

[CheffoJeffo]

I would have to agree with everything Lew said and I have a bit softer stance than Fozzy.

I am still surprised by the volume of "wife won't let me"s out there. Mine is very supportive and, so long as they don't clutter the main areas of the house, she doesn't complainabout the cabinets.

Good luck with the project.

Cheers

[Stingray]

Same here. I have a wife who has no problem with me having a game room, so that's where I play games. The TV in the living room is for watching movies & television shows. I don't play games in there even if I'm the only one home.

I would have to speculate that any wife who is so controlling as to tell you when & where you can play games would have no interst in allowing you to install something like this in "her house".

-S

[AlanS17]

Like his poll said: I have no idea who would want one of these! It's really the worst Idea for a product that we've seen on this forum for a long time.

Chill out, dude. Why are you flipping out? The guy has a project he wants to do for himself that he wants to be able to turn into a class assignment. What's the harm? It's not like he's trying to commercialize BYOAC. If he had a new encoder, monitor, or control, you wouldn't be so rabid. But the moment someone comes in with something you don't want, you freak out.

He asked a very simple, fair question and gave a whole bunch of options. If you don't like it, speak with your vote. No need to flame.

As I see it, any exposure is good exposure (at least until the abuse sets in). Maybe his research will uncover something that could unknowingly help the entire community. Who knows? But I do know there's no reason to be flipping out.

Maybe it's because I only graduated a couple of years ago, and I've still got school on the brain. I can totally sympathize with his position. I personally wouldn't have a need for one myself since I already have upright machines, but that's a personal decision. If someone wants to a turn a personal project into into a class assignment, I say go for it.

[More Cowbell]

I just think you're asking the wrong group. We are build-it-yourselfers looking for an arcade experience. Your question would be better asked at a home theater site.

[Matthew Anderson]

Look, I want to answer your poll but the option I would pick is no thanks not interested. You do not give me the choice, I can either say I am interested or that I feel it is offensive or I don't understand why people would want this. Well, I don't feel it is offensive nor am I mystified as to why someone would want it.

So where's my no thanks?

[Dervacumen]

Seems this forum isn't too interested in trying to fuse lots of different technologies into one big honking do everything kinda doohicky.   If you want market response for your Grad class, you're probably better off finding a more consumer oriented forum, like video game console boards.  If you want to build it for yourself then by all means have at it.  But methinks it would be a PITA.

And bummer about the wife issue.  Mine keeps asking when I'm going to get my machine done so I can bring it in the house.

[AlanS17]

I just think you're asking the wrong group. We are build-it-yourselfers looking for an arcade experience. Your question would be better asked at a home theater site.

Personally, I think PL should ask there in addition to here. He should also ask in general arcade forums (but he might get flack from the purists about emulation). Oh, and he should try PC gaming forums.

I think the reason he started here is because this is what he knows and he kind of wants to build it for himself.

[Stingray]

Look, I want to answer your poll but the option I would pick is no thanks not interested. You do not give me the choice, I can either say I am interested or that I feel it is offensive or I don't understand why people would want this. Well, I don't feel it is offensive nor am I mystified as to why someone would want it.

So where's my no thanks?

I was thinking the same. I chose the one that's closest to my actual opinion, but "no thanks" would have been more appropriate.

-S

[Purple Lemon]

My apologies if I have offended anyone.  The last thing I want to do is post spam.  I have seen other posts discussing product ideas here, but the moderator should remove this post if it is inappropriate.

I would have preferred to wait on posting this concept until I actually built it myself, but my class is pushing to get people's opinions.  I have been reading this forum for a few years, actually; I wanted to completely understand other members' successes and failures before I contributed something myself.

Yes, I agree that this concept doesn't fit within the traditional arcade experience.  However, the thought of playing Pac Man on a 55" screen in 7.1 audio appeals to me.  Maybe I'm just unique in that way.  I have seen that there is software such as GameEx that allows people with a Home Theater PC to play MAME on their big screen TV.  I was curious if there was similar interest here.

[RayB]

If you're going to play games in a "home theatre", there is absolutely no reason to rotate the screen. It will be so large compared to the original video games, that playing vertical games with "black bars" on the sides would be more than acceptable. The game would still be many times larger than it was ever meant to be. (So a "native" resolution is completely unecessary here).

[AtomSmasher]

Instead of a rotating screen, how about wireless arcade controls to easily play the games from the couch?  The easiest way I can think to do it is by doing a keyboard hack on a wireless keyboard.

[Stingray]

My apologies if I have offended anyone.  The last thing I want to do is post spam.  I have seen other posts discussing product ideas here, but the moderator should remove this post if it is inappropriate.

It's totally appropriate, IMO. You have to understand that having your idea called stupid, being made fun of or being called a moron is just part of having a rational discussion here. This is the cue for everyone to call me a moron.

-S

[Purple Lemon]

how about wireless arcade controls to easily play the games from the couch?

The Wireless USB-IF plan on allowing you to do this in the future.  Their plan is to let you turn an I-PAC controller into a wireless controller with use of a dongle, according to my understanding.  I'm not sure how wireless it would be if you have to plug in power or keep replacing batteries...

http://wireless.engadget.com/2005/03/04/wireless-usb-killed-the-bluetooth-star/

For my home setup, I plan on creating a coffee table with a table top that lifts up like this:

http://www.furniturecentral.com/SimpleProduct.aspx?CS_ProductID=c5244&roiid=1321404

The table top would then flip to reveal a modular set of controls.  I have an idea of how it would work, but it's very preliminary. 

The coffee table's real purpose would be completely hidden when it was put away.  I had wanted a subtle, Tetris-like trim around the table, but my wife nixed that.

[AtomSmasher]

Heh, theres always something like this: http://www.wickedretarded.com/~crapmame/14.html

[More Cowbell]

My apologies if I have offended anyone.  The last thing I want to do is post spam.  I have seen other posts discussing product ideas here, but the moderator should remove this post if it is inappropriate.

It's totally appropriate, IMO. You have to understand that having your idea called stupid, being made fun of or being called a moron is just part of having a rational discussion here. This is the cue for everyone to call me a moron.

-S

Moron! You're welcome.

[Stingray]

Moron! You're welcome.

Thanks for being there for me.

-S

[Purple Lemon]

Heh, theres always something like this: http://www.wickedretarded.com/~crapmame/14.html

Yeah, I've seen the original site.  The 'Crap MAME' commentary is funny, although I don't agree 100% that it is deserved.  They should at least get points for trying.  My implementation will be very different, and hopefully won't earn a spot on the 'Crap MAME' page.

[toasty]

I currently have my mamebox hooked up to a 62" widescreen TV in my secondary TV room.  The computer is just another input, so switching to the game is just as easy as picking up the controller and changing to another video input.  Initially, I just hooked it up this way as a stopgap measure before I built or otherwise acquired a cab, but I actually like it so much, I might just leave it this way.  Honestly, people that visit the house truly love it -- playing arcade classics at sizes you wouldn't even dream of back in the day. 

One thing it is not, though, is authentic (although I do use arcade controls).  For me, though, it is about the games.  With that in mind, I suspect that most people who would be interested in something like this couldn't care less if it is at the authentic resolution or not, and would not want to pay the premium -- or give up the space -- for a mechanism that would spin a big screen on command.  Frankly, on a big screen, the vertical/horizontal thing isn't that big of a deal because there's so much real estate -- most people that are not in the MAME community couldn't tell you if a game is supposed to be on a horizontal or vertical monitor, and it might even take a bit of the fun out of it for my guests if I had to jump in every time they switched games to spin the monitor.   They are so wowed by seeing Ms. Pac Man at such a size, they don't even notice that it isn't arcade perfect in terms of proportions.

If you're going to market something like this, I'd suggest doing it to non-purists with no skills rather than the people on this board.  One problem you're going to encounter, though, is that with most new TVs having a PC port, it just isn't that hard to hook up a mame system to a big screen on your own.  As such, if the primary benefit of the thing is that it spins, I'd respectfully recommend that you go back to the ol' drawing board.

[Goz]

I play games in my home theater two ways... I have 3 candy cabs in the back of my theater for dedicated goodness. I also play games via emulator on an HTPC w/ 110" screen. Most people with a home theater I'd imagine would want to use their dedicated viewing source out their audio setups since that is what home theaters are about. People build their theaters arround their main displays be it projectors, plasma, or any other HD display and their audio.

Good luck with your venture

-G

[quarterback]

how about wireless arcade controls to easily play the games from the couch?

The Wireless USB-IF plan on allowing you to do this in the future. 

http://wireless.engadget.com/2005/03/04/wireless-usb-killed-the-bluetooth-star/

Yeah, but how far in the future?  According to that article, hundreds of companies should have rolled out their wireless USB products by now.

Wireless USB killed the Bluetooth star

Mar 4th 2005

Or will, starting within the next 12 months. The wireless USB protocol will be finished by the end of March, and products for the retail sector will start rolling out within a year's time.

over 200 companies already slated to release wireless USB devices in the coming year

Too bad that 'coming year' has come and gone.    Methinks their 'clever' title was a bit premature....

[Purple Lemon]

Yeah, but how far in the future?  According to that article, hundreds of companies should have rolled out their wireless USB products by now.

Like all future technology, it's probably 'Real Soon Now'.  Bluetooth didn't get it right until version 2.0, so I would rather wait for until Wireless USB actually works than a product that only works some of the time.

[kelemvor]

With a Home Theater I agree with soem above the the screen would be big enough that rotating a screen wouldn't be necessary.

I'd just get a PC with an S_Video out on it and plug that into your TV.  RUn the audio cables to your tuner and you're done.

As for the controls, a friend of mien rigged up a small CP that you'd hold on your lap.  It connected via a LAN cable to the iPac near the PC.  He also made a second one that plugs into the first one with another LAN cable so you could have 2 people sitting next to each other, each with their own CP on their lap, and playing head to head.

[RandyT]

I'm just wondering when it was that "home theater" started applying to anything bigger than a 35" TV or an aspect ratio of other than 4:3.

I guess we can thank the marketing people at the electronics conglomerates for that one.


True "home theater" setups can display a vertical game virtually from the floor to the ceiling without turning anything. 

RandyT

[Purple Lemon]

True "home theater" setups can display a vertical game virtually from the floor to the ceiling without turning anything. 

If you have a dedicated room for home theater with the high end seating, projector, AV equipment, etc, then chances are that you can afford the extra room to put any pinball / arcade machine you want.

I'm not in that category, unfortunately, which means I have to make do with moderate priced equipment that has 80-90% of the functionality of the high end gear.

[NickG]

I live in a single 20ft.x20ft (approx) room yet i have one (so far) arcade cabs and a 600 dollar projector setup    and futon.  Yeah; no need to rotate the screen.  I laugh at people when they buy theses leetel girly-man lcds for 600 and try to call it a home theater-  until my bulbs run out, then they laugh at me back.  Then, all of a sudden having a small screen sounds like a good idea.  Then, your idea also sounds nice.......but, I'd just as soon prop one up on it's side with a pizzabox or something...people in your "category" will pobably be inclined to build their own stuff unless you make yours really impressive and unapproachable somehow; seeing is believing.

[RandyT]

True "home theater" setups can display a vertical game virtually from the floor to the ceiling without turning anything. 

If you have a dedicated room for home theater with the high end seating, projector, AV equipment, etc, then chances are that you can afford the extra room to put any pinball / arcade machine you want.

I'm not in that category, unfortunately, which means I have to make do with moderate priced equipment that has 80-90% of the functionality of the high end gear.

You don't need any of that stuff.  You need a projector that is about 13' from a screen and you can cut a hole in the wall and mount it in a neighboring room if that's a problem (ask me how I know about that one.)  You also need a sofa and Dolby Digital speaker setup.  If you want a dual purpose room, the pull-down screens work nicely.

Decent projectors no longer cost the obscene amount I paid a few years ago.  A good projector and a screen now cost as little or less than a decent plasma TV.  If big screen gaming is your thing, a plasma just isn't the same, rotated or not.

Also, keep in mind that the classic vertical games, like PacMan, used a 19" monitor.  This game can be shown actual size on a 27" horizontally oriented monitor.  Any monitor bigger than 27" will give the screen a size boost over the original.  Why go through all the trouble to rotate a large, heavy screen when the regular image is already way larger than anyone remembers it?  How big does it need to be?  Will your guests be substantially more impressed if the screen is 7x larger instead of 5x?  And if they are, is impressing your guests worth the price of your doo-dad and is that really what it's all about?

And let's not forget that modern widescreen format displays are not optimal for classic gaming, no matter which orientation they are in.

I think you probably know where I stand on the marketability of your device from the above comments.


NickG:

Don't sweat bulb life.  If 4 people go to the theater to see a movie, you are looking at $40 minimum.  Do that about 7 times and you bought a new bulb for your projector, which is good for about 1000 movies for the same 4 people.  Not much for them to laugh at there.


RandyT

[AtomSmasher]

I figure when the bulb goes out on my projector it will be time to buy a new one.  I bought my projector for $900 3 years ago, at first I used it just for dvds, but for the past year I've been using it for regular television as well.  The projector keeps a tally of how long its been on and so far I'm just barely over 1000 hours.  Since the bulb in it is rated for 3000 hours, I think I'll be fine for a couple more years.

[ArcadEd]

I don't know if there is a market for such a screen.  But I promise you, there is a market for gaming in home theaters.  The home theater crowd is one of our biggest markets.

I have a home theater.  80" screen 16:9 with a Panny HD Projector.  I have my demo Arcade-In-A-Box setup on it as well.  It's a lot more fun playing with a bunch of buddies, when everyone does not have to huddle around a cabinet.  Authentic, no.  Fun, yes. 

As the way this thread turned a little bit ugly, you have to understand this is a DIY type of community.  So pitching product ideas has to relate to that crowd.  It's the reason the Arcade-In-A-Box isn't advertised here.  This isn't our market, and I understand that.  We have a few smaller products that help out people here from time to time, and we continue to try and create items like that as well. (like a new restrictor plate that is hopefully coming soon . 

Anyway, don't let your idea die Purple.  If it's something you are passionate about, and really want to give it a try, I say go for it.