Author Topic: Keyboard press lag, have the gods forsaken me? (Read 3002 times)

releasedtruth · « **on:** November 02, 2006, 09:12:57 pm »

The only problem now is that when I'm playing a game there's some sort of lag sometimes where I'll perform a move or shoot action after I'm not even pressing a button. Really makes most games unplayable. I have SlikStik stainless 13oz sticks, but I would hope it's not that. Heavy springs are installed. It even happens when I use the straight keyboard, usb or ps/2. I don't have an especially slow machine and all but poly games run full speed.

I've confirmed I'm locked to vsync, that all the buttons/keys work perfectly in notepad and Passmark leyboard test, and even installed a PCI usb 2 card just to be sure.

PC: P4 2.0, 512MB ram, Radeon 9600 Pro, PCI USB hub, IPAC-2

If someone could help diagnose this I'd be eternally greatful. It's the only thing between me and endless gaming.

The fervor of GT

spacies · « **Reply #1 on:** November 02, 2006, 09:20:59 pm »

I would restore the IPAC to default again.

Open notepad and press ctrl, alt and p on your keyboard.
This will bring up the IPAC test util.

Reset the IPAC to default then exit.

Then go into MAME and delete the ini (config) file (depends on version, frontend etc)

Now you should be back to default.

Try everything again. And if you want to program the IPAC use the notepad thing again.

Why do you want to run a dedicated shift key when IPACs dont need it?
Just use the shortcuts.

spacies · « **Reply #2 on:** November 02, 2006, 09:27:42 pm »

Maybe a link to a high res photo of the wiring as well.
I know you have triple checked everything but its sometimes a simple thing that not right, as we all know!

Worth a shot?

releasedtruth · « **Reply #3 on:** November 02, 2006, 10:02:51 pm »

Here are a few pics I just snapped. The combined ground in pic 2 doesn't come in contact with any other leads. I was using a dedicated shift cause I have 2 extra buttons, you can see the backside ones in wiring2, there are 2 on each side, hidden. I wanted to use one as shift, then have a bunch of others as tab, esc, p, f keys, -, 0, things like that.

GT

spacies · « **Reply #4 on:** November 02, 2006, 10:34:02 pm »

Crikey,

Looks like a birds nest.

Sorry.

Looks like you really need to tidy that up for find your way around a bit easier.

Do you have a multimeter?
If you do, I would test each wire from the microswitch to the IPAC to make sure there is a circuit.
You could get really picky and while you have one end on the microswitch, test the other end on every socket on the IPAC to see if you have your wires crossed, LOL. Won't take that long.
Also make sure you have the wire on the correct microswitch tab, easy enough to do. I have done it loads of times.

I still wouldn't worry about the dedicated shift key.
Using the IPACs inbuilt 'shift' function is by holding the P1 button etc is good enough IMO.
Then again, its your machine.

Good luck, things like this can be frustrating but take your time and you will find the problem.

releasedtruth · « **Reply #5 on:** November 02, 2006, 10:57:18 pm »

Well, the only button that isn't working was one of my 2 extra buttons that 'would' have been the shift button. I'm just using the P1 default right now. I'll break out the multimeter tomorrow and make sure things are straight. Adding in all the wiring from the leds really made things nasty, which I'm not a fan of, but I'll straighten it out as soon as things are workin. I'm gonna leave it be for the moment since it's working, but the lag thing.... Still no clue. Thanks much, your help has been invaluable.

GT

spacies · « **Reply #6 on:** November 02, 2006, 11:21:28 pm »

All good,

Not sure about the lag, but maybe try an older version of MAME?

releasedtruth · « **Reply #7 on:** November 02, 2006, 11:27:26 pm »

Yeah, the lag is strange. I'm using .109b at the moment. As long as my Top Guns work when they come in, I'll roll back as far as they're supported, at least just to test things out.

GT

spacies · « **Reply #8 on:** November 02, 2006, 11:43:33 pm »

I think 109 does have some issues.
As MAME devs keep working, the program gets more hungry for CPUs.
I have used 0.81 since it came out and I will never change...muwhahahhaaaaa

Hope that fixes your probs.

Bill Mote · « **Reply #9 on:** November 03, 2006, 06:34:20 am »

Quote from: releasedtruth on November 02, 2006, 10:57:18 pm

Well, the only button that isn't working was one of my 2 extra buttons that 'would' have been the shift button.

Have you tested the micro-switch? Those do go bad. After wiring my entire cabinet I found 2-3 that were DOA. Replaced them and I haven't had a problem since.

dot

releasedtruth · « **Reply #10 on:** November 03, 2006, 10:42:19 am »

I tested every switch, even swapped a few out, just to be sure. When I test them in notepad or other keyboard test progs they work like a champ. I'm rolling back to .96, then .84 as a testing method. I have a spare 2.2Ghz cpu in another half broke computer I may drop in, no reason not to I guess.

GT

releasedtruth · « **Reply #11 on:** November 05, 2006, 02:27:57 pm »

Alright gents, here's an update. I received a new USB 2.0 via pci hub in the mail and plugged the IPAC into in. I thought things were fixed (yay), but alas I was mistaken. I played 1943 and other such games and here's what happens exactly:

Whilst moving about the screen, eventually I lose control of the player. I'm standing still (personally) and the plane moves about on its own shooting and invariably killing me. Almost like the keyboard is overloading and can't handle nimble moves. I tested by using just a keyboard, same situation in any game requiring quickness.

I've rolled back to .96u and then to .85u, same situation, maybe even worse. I've got everything else full on flava flav, but this has me baffled and dejected. Keyboard testing works appropriately (passmark)...

I'll try using mame from command line, could it be GameEx?

GT

Jess-- · « **Reply #12 on:** November 05, 2006, 06:26:36 pm »

Hmm try using the PS2 connection on the Ipac rather than the USB connection.

releasedtruth · « **Reply #13 on:** November 05, 2006, 06:53:31 pm »

I don't have a ps2/ps2 cable around, but I am using a usb keyboard too so.... It's a wireless usb no less. I'll try one of my ps2 keyboards and see if it's the same thattaway. I wonder why usb would in any way be slower, but at this point I'll try anything.

GT

Silver · « **Reply #14 on:** November 06, 2006, 08:11:03 am »

Quote from: releasedtruth on November 05, 2006, 06:53:31 pm

It's a wireless usb no less.

Do you mean completely wireless? As in it sends all the USB data wirelessly with no physical connection? If so, its the first thing I would test without - do you get the issues with a wired hub?

releasedtruth · « **Reply #15 on:** November 06, 2006, 09:23:26 am »

My IPAC is connected via USB 2.0 to a PCI hub and my keyboard/mouse is a wireless usb setup. I tried out a ps/2 keyboard last night just for kicks, same issue so it seems system related, but I can't imagine why. When I use Passmark to test the 2 keyboards and IPAC, all seems good. Seems to happen in GameEx and MAME from a command line. I'm going to get a ps/2 cable for the IPAC, just in case. My diagnosis options are running thin.

GT

Bill Mote · « **Reply #16 on:** November 07, 2006, 01:12:57 pm »

Quote from: releasedtruth on November 05, 2006, 02:27:57 pm

I'm standing still (personally)

LIAR! No one stands still while playing video games. It's like asking the Mrs. to clasp her hands while she talks ... it just can't be done.

dot

releasedtruth · « **Reply #17 on:** November 07, 2006, 06:12:36 pm »

Haha, when I'm watching my guy move all around the screen I am. Blinking and shaking my head, saying "Get back here you!" I actually have nothing new to report. I'm gonna fiddle tonight, post my continued lamentations....

GT

BobA · « **Reply #18 on:** November 07, 2006, 06:20:46 pm »

Seems like a deep rooted problem. Check for an updated USB driver for your motherboard. May not be needed for XP but sometimes they are fixing internal problems that have been found on the MB. Worst case if a new driver is not available how about a clean install of XP. I am just assuming that is your OS as I don't think you stated it previously.

releasedtruth · « **Reply #19 on:** November 07, 2006, 09:02:17 pm »

I just tried it again. Terrible....

Yes, I'm running XP. This HD was blank, we loaded XP and then all the roms, etc so things were clean. It's an older Compaq machine so it's no great shakes, but I'm baffled. I'm using a PCI USB 2.0 card now just because the MB ones were doing it. PS/2 does it as well as USB. I'm almost to the point of buying a new barebones just in the odd chance that will work. My unveiling party was going to be the 18th, but I think I'll have to cancel it now if I can't get it working by this weekend. I'm desperate enough to pay someone who can solve it without buying a new system.

GT

releasedtruth · « **Reply #20 on:** November 08, 2006, 09:39:52 am »

I've gotten some real good advice from a gent here on the board, but unfortunately I can't seem to make things happen so I have 3 final ideas.

1. I'm using a "cloned" desktop for testing with the TV/LCD monitor so I wonder if I shut off one screen it'll have a more accurate vsync?

2. My laptop has mame and should be able to plug and play with the control panel. It won't be running on the TV, but it has S-video out if that would make things more accurate. If it happens with the laptop (twice as fast, 3x the ram) then I'll know it's not the computer specifically.

3. Try AdvanceMame or Mame32 just to see if the problem persists in other versions.

If the laptop works, I'm buying a barebones system post haste. If not.... perhaps it's time to buy an ultracade.... j/k, seriously, I'm having a hard time, I'm not plain retarded. any other thoughts?

releasedtruth · « **Reply #21 on:** November 08, 2006, 09:17:54 pm »

Well ladies and gents, I loaded up MAME32FX and low and behold, it works. Don't ask me why cause I couldn't say. I loaded it up and it works. I'm not going to argue with good fortune, but we'll see how long it lasts. Thanks to all who read and suggested!

GT

leapinlew · « **Reply #22 on:** November 08, 2006, 10:01:05 pm »

Quote from: releasedtruth on November 08, 2006, 09:39:52 am

1. I'm using a "cloned" desktop for testing with the TV/LCD monitor so I wonder if I shut off one screen it'll have a more accurate vsync?

Wtf! This should've been in your first post. In troubleshooting, it's best to get back to a normal known good configuration. In this case, it should've been Dos based mame with a few roms to a monitor and work backwards from there. Trying different computers, etc.

It's possible the Mame32FX folks implemented something that has resolved your issue. But, I would make things as standard as possible and then build up adding things until you find something that breaks it.

Glad the problem is fixed?

releasedtruth · « **Reply #23 on:** November 08, 2006, 11:10:19 pm »

I spoke too soon. I played for about 1.5 hours and it was perfect, now it's back to doing it. I've never even left GameEx tonight, still on in fact.

I've never actually had what one would call a good known configuration. I hadn't tried many games for more than 30 seconds or so till last week. I tried it without the cloned desktop, doesn't seem to make any difference. I still have this sneaking suspicion that it's hardware related. I played through Pirates once, then some NBA Jam, Street Fighter, then it started with Cabal and in Pirates after.

HD was blank, loaded Win XP Pro, then all the roms/marquees/icons/vids, etc. so I want to believe that isn't it. I'll test further once my patience returns.

Sorry for the early celebration.

GT

leapinlew · « **Reply #24 on:** November 09, 2006, 12:00:25 am »

You got a different machine you can try. If it does the same thing on a different rig... We'll know the computer is good.

releasedtruth · « **Reply #25 on:** November 09, 2006, 12:11:49 am »

I'm going to load up the ol laptop here with a few games and mame setups, plug in the CP and give it a go. It's a lot faster than the mame machine anyway. I kept playing through the retardedness and hit another sweet spot there for a while. I'll get dos mame snd give that a go.

GT

HaRuMaN · « **Reply #26 on:** November 09, 2006, 05:45:46 am »

Is this computer going to be used strictly for MAME? If so... I'd roll back your OS to something faster (and more stable, IMO) to like Win 98 SE.

releasedtruth · « **Reply #27 on:** November 09, 2006, 09:24:01 am »

Yeah, this is a MAME/Daphne/Hotd/Mad Dog McCree only machine. As long as I have full USB/Lightgun/video card support, I may just think about going back in OS time a bit. Tonight I'll test the laptop. What I don't understand is why it worked for a while, then not, then back to working. If it 'always' fails it can be diagnosed so much more easily. Hopefully this fiasco will someday help another lost soul.

GT

leapinlew · « **Reply #28 on:** November 09, 2006, 10:13:00 am »

does it do it just sitting there? Or is it only when your playing?

Have we ruled out a bad ground?

releasedtruth · « **Reply #29 on:** November 09, 2006, 10:23:59 am »

It's only the joys/keyb that's the problem so I can only notice it when actually playing. I've checked all the wires/grounds and if it does it with an unrelated ps/2 keyboard, it just makes little sense. I was told there's a problem with Direct3d and keyboard lag sometimes so I'll switch to DirectDraw tonight and check. Who'd have thought there'd be so many options to diagnose.... I was using mame with defaults before so now that I'm in MAME32FX I need to toy with their settings. I really like how mame32 displays though, just as an aside.

GT

AlanS17 · « **Reply #30 on:** November 09, 2006, 10:48:53 am »

Have you tried using a gamepad or other game controller with your MAME installation? I don't know if you have a spare anywhere you could test out. If that works then maybe you can switch out your keyboard-based encoder for a gamepad-based encoder like the GP-Wiz. Just a thought...

AlanS17 · « **Reply #31 on:** November 09, 2006, 10:49:56 am »

Quote from: HarumaN on November 09, 2006, 05:45:46 am

Is this computer going to be used strictly for MAME? If so... I'd roll back your OS to something faster (and more stable, IMO) to like Win 98 SE.

There may be less overhead, but there's nothing more stable about Win98 compared against WinXP.

releasedtruth · « **Reply #32 on:** November 09, 2006, 12:23:05 pm »

A little further research would suggest that Direct3d and vsync could cause keyboard lag so hopefully we're on to something. I have the newest Directx, newest Catalyst drivers (Radeon 9600) as well. I have "wait for vsync" set in GameEx and I think as well in MAME32FX. I'm at 60Hz as prescribed and using Powerstrip at 640x432. Are there specific 'vsync' options in Catalyst somewhere too?

GT

Jess-- · « **Reply #33 on:** November 09, 2006, 05:54:17 pm »

just a quickie.... when you tried the PS2 keyboard you did remove the usb lead to the Ipac / Jpac didnt you, it could be that the usb keyboard interface was affecting the ps2 interface

also try going into the bios and switch off "Legacy support for USB devices" if you have the option, this will disable bios support for usb keyboards and in doing so force windows xp to load up its drivers for usb keyboard.

NickG · « **Reply #34 on:** November 10, 2006, 12:53:05 am »

You mentioned you are running a powerstrip resolution? For troubleshooting purposes it may be wise to disable programs like that and use a standard resolution.

Edit: ...on a standard single vga monitor.

releasedtruth · « **Reply #35 on:** November 10, 2006, 09:19:24 am »

I've been testing most of the time without powerstrip running so there's overscan, but that's fine for testing. I got out of work super late last night (4 hours late) so I didn't get to fiddle, but tonight, back to the arcade! Nick, I think I have it set to Quality right now, but I'll confirm tonight and post the results of what I find in as empirical a way as I can. Thanks,

GT


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