Setting up monitor in cab with a mirror. Options to mirror the image?

[quarterback]

I'm working on a pc-monitor based mame setup that will be in one of those cabs where the player is actually looking at the screen via a mirror.    Mame itself has the flipx and flipy options to mirror-image the games, but I'm concerned about my front end.

I'm using MaLa right now and, as far as I can tell, it doesn't have an option to flipx or flipy.     I understand that ArcadeOS offers this option but, I have to admit, I'm not a fan of the way ArcadeOS looks.

I did some searching and found a thread here that tells me, with arcade monitors/tvs, you can switch a couple wires and get the entire display to be a reversed image.  The plus of this wiring-switch is that it would mean everything (windows included) would look correct through the mirror.  However, since I'm not planning on using this machine as a 'computer', I don't have a particular need for that.

Can this be done with arcade monitors as well?

Are there other solutions to this that people use?
Thanks

[javeryh]

You can't use flipx and flipy in connection with MaLa?  I am using both of those functions and Gamelauncher and it works fine - I just changes the settings in the mame config file...  I don't really know what I'm talking about but I would at least give it a try...

[quarterback]

You can't use flipx and flipy in connection with MaLa?  I am using both of those functions and Gamelauncher and it works fine - I just changes the settings in the mame config file...  I don't really know what I'm talking about but I would at least give it a try...

I'm not sure if this is what you're saying, but the issue is getting MaLa itself to flip.  Maybe it does this, and I just haven't been able to find it.    Does Gamelauncher itself run in a backwards/flipped image?

Thanks

[Grasshopper]

I'm afraid I don't know the answer to your question, but out of interest what type of cab are you converting? Or are you building from scratch?

I ask because I've always been a big fan of the older mirror-style cabs and I might convert one myself one day.

[javeryh]

You can't use flipx and flipy in connection with MaLa?  I am using both of those functions and Gamelauncher and it works fine - I just changes the settings in the mame config file...  I don't really know what I'm talking about but I would at least give it a try...

I'm not sure if this is what you're saying, but the issue is getting MaLa itself to flip.  Maybe it does this, and I just haven't been able to find it.    Does Gamelauncher itself run in a backwards/flipped image?

Thanks

Gamelauncher doesn't flip while doing this (I don't think).  I am running it in vertical mode and everything is facing the way it should.  I needed to flipx and flipy in order to display the image upsidedown on my monitor for my cocktail cab.  I was thinking maybe Mala would run normal and then when you launched Mame it would flip because the settings are Mame specific.  Of course that's not what you want though - Again, I don't really know what I'm talking about and all of this stuff is very new to me and quite confusing - I was hoping it might spark an idea from someone else.

[quarterback]

Thanks for the reply, javeryh.

Yeah, MaLa will spin/rotate but not do a backwards image, which is what I'm looking for.   

I've just discovered MaLa and I'm using it for my cocktail cab, but the mame parameters of -flipx and -flipy will actually give you a reversed image (like you'd see in a mirror) while -rol and -ror will 'rotate' the image so it will go upside down, but not actually backwards.   

I can get MaLa to rotate (so either cocktail player could read it correctly) but as for having things completely backwards, well, that doesn't seem to be an option as far as I can tell.

Thanks
qb

[spacies]

 
Have you thought about switching the wires on the chassis to get a reversed image?
That would be an easy fix if possible.

[quarterback]

Have you thought about switching the wires on the chassis to get a reversed image?
That would be an easy fix if possible.

Yeah, the thread I linked in my first post references that technique with a true arcade monitor or a TV.   Does a PC monitor work in the same way?

Here's another thread with the same suggestion and the same question about PC monitors, but it never got a response.

Anybody done this with a computer monitor?

[Kremmit]

I've never heard of anybody doing this trick with a PC monitor, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.  A CRT is a CRT is a CRT.  Open 'er up and have a look!

[javeryh]

Thanks for the reply, javeryh.

Yeah, MaLa will spin/rotate but not do a backwards image, which is what I'm looking for.   

I've just discovered MaLa and I'm using it for my cocktail cab, but the mame parameters of -flipx and -flipy will actually give you a reversed image (like you'd see in a mirror) while -rol and -ror will 'rotate' the image so it will go upside down, but not actually backwards.   

I can get MaLa to rotate (so either cocktail player could read it correctly) but as for having things completely backwards, well, that doesn't seem to be an option as far as I can tell.

Thanks
qb

Interesting... I'm going to try installing MaLa on my cocktail cab sometime this week.  I've been planning on using MaLa all along but Gamelauncher was already on that computer.  In order to play the horizontal games I'll need to flipx and flipy.  I'll let you know how it goes.  In Gamelauncher I had the vertical games set to -rol but after getting flipx and flipy to work they were all facing the Player 2 vertical CP and I had to switch everything to -ror.  I'm not sure if that was because Gamelauncher was also getting flipped.  For what it's worth, on the MaLa site the first thing listed in the features is "Rotatable in any direction (0, 90, 180, 270) on the fly for horizontal and vertical screens."

[quarterback]

I've never heard of anybody doing this trick with a PC monitor, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.  A CRT is a CRT is a CRT. 

I hadn't heard of anybody doing it either, so I just wasn't sure if it was possible.  Didn't know if the wires were different for some reason.

Open 'er up and have a look!

Gonna' do it!

[quarterback]

Yeah, MaLa will spin/rotate but not do a backwards image, which is what I'm looking for.

In order to play the horizontal games I'll need to flipx and flipy. 

 For what it's worth, on the MaLa site the first thing listed in the features is "Rotatable in any direction (0, 90, 180, 270) on the fly for horizontal and vertical screens."

I don't think you're understanding what -flipx and -flipy actually do.  MaLa does have the ability to rotate in any direction, and -rol and -ror are ways to rotate mame itself.   What -flipx and -flipy do is completely different and I'd be surprised if that's what you're using for your cocktail, unless there's a mirror involved.

-flipx and flipy don't simply rotate the screen so people on opposite sides (or any of the 4 sides) of a cocktail can play.  -flipx and flipy create mirror images.  It would be as if you turn your cocktail monitor to face the floor and you can see through the back of the tube. All text becomes reversed, as if you were looking in a mirror.    Instead of your game scrolling to the left, it now scrolls to your right.  Pushing your joystick one way results in the person moving the opposite direction.   

Below are some pics of what -flipx does to your screen and should explain the reason it really only works in a mirror.  Even if you're not familiar with Donkey Kong (yeah right! ) the text is a sure giveaway why this isn't a solution to a 3-sided cocktail table.

[javeryh]

I know... but if you flipx and flipy you are actually only making the picture go upsidedown.  If you hold a piece of paper in your hand and turn it over once on the horizontal axis and then again on the vertical axis the paper will appear correctly (not mirrored) but will be upsidedown.  The reason I am using both functions is because the monitor is upsidedown for the people playing on the third CP.  Am I making things more complicated  than they have to be?

[quarterback]

I know... but if you flipx and flipy you are actually only making the picture go upsidedown. 

Ahhhh, I see how you're using them now.   For vertical cocktail mode you're using -rol but for horizontal cocktail mode (which is actually 'upside down' relative to how your monitor is oriented) you're flipping it 180-degrees by using both -flipx and -flipy.

See, my problem is that I actually NEED the text to be backwards so it will look right when viewed through a mirror.  I need either -flipx OR -flipy which I can do to the games in Mame, but I can't do to the front end.  I can rotate MaLa to face any of the 4 directions (which would make it useful for you) but I can't get it to actually be a backwards/mirror image.

As soon as I can get to the back of one of my PC monitors, I'm going to check the re-wiring option.

[danny_galaga]

ill keep an eye on this too. ive been trying to be low key, but anyone can guess that my new project is a space invaders upright (",).

[krick]

Just for reference in case anyone cares...

There's 8 different possibilities for monitors in an arcade machine (assuming at most 1 mirror)...

rotate 0
rotate 90
rotate 180
rotate 270
rotate 0 + flip x
rotate 90 + flip x
rotate 180 + flip x
rotate 270 + flip x

To flip the x axis, you use a mirror.

The driver source in MAME can be confusing because they use FLIP_X, FLIP_Y, SWAP_XY in addition to all the rotations, but really, they all boil down to the the 8 possibilites above.

I'd like to see the drivers changed to use a rotation plus an optional "mirror" because it's more clear how the original cabinet was set up.

[Popcorrin]

Switching the yoke wires on a monitor isn't too difficult, just make sure you follow the safety guidlines for working with monitors.
I have switched the yoke wires on both a pc and arcade monitor and it's pretty much the same on either one.

[javeryh]

I know... but if you flipx and flipy you are actually only making the picture go upsidedown. 

Ahhhh, I see how you're using them now.   For vertical cocktail mode you're using -rol but for horizontal cocktail mode (which is actually 'upside down' relative to how your monitor is oriented) you're flipping it 180-degrees by using both -flipx and -flipy.

See, my problem is that I actually NEED the text to be backwards so it will look right when viewed through a mirror.  I need either -flipx OR -flipy which I can do to the games in Mame, but I can't do to the front end.  I can rotate MaLa to face any of the 4 directions (which would make it useful for you) but I can't get it to actually be a backwards/mirror image.

As soon as I can get to the back of one of my PC monitors, I'm going to check the re-wiring option.

Ahhh... I finally understand what you are trying to do as well...     Maybe there is a setting in Windows or something that allows for a mirrored image?  This way you wouldn't have to mess around with configurations in mame or mala...

Good luck!  On a semi-related note - how cool is this?  http://sharp-world.com/corporate/news/060927.html.  Imagine the possibilities - one cabinet to play different games at the same time!  No more fighting with the wife!

[Stingray]

Switching the yoke wires on a monitor isn't too difficult, just make sure you follow the safety guidlines for working with monitors.
I have switched the yoke wires on both a pc and arcade monitor and it's pretty much the same on either one.

This is interesting. I didn't know that, but I may incorporate it into a project I'm planning.

-S