Is there a living to be made from arcade cabs?

[CheffoJeffo]

I'm not a PI, but given the ads on your site, and the topics that are allowed to be conversed I think I'm in the house....

Uh, it's not my site. It's saint's site. I have the mustache and floppy hat -- he has the helmet and shield.

You said "everything here is paid for by one of those companies". I asked for the source of that information.  You haven't answered the question.

Cheers.

[Chris]

 

[spacies]

Im moving to Sweden!  

Quote form link:

The monopoly for the copyright holder to exploit an aesthetic work commercially should be limited to five years after publication. Today's copyright terms are simply absurd. Nobody needs to make money seventy years after he is dead. No film studio or record company bases its investment decisions on the off-chance that the product would be of interest to anyone a hundred years in the future. The commercial life of cultural works is staggeringly short in today's world. If you haven't made your money back in the first one or two years, you never will. A five years copyright term for commercial use is more than enough.  'End quote'

Are the girls are HOT HOT HOT!

[jimmy_bored]

Also,

Thanks for the PMs and emails asking where to buy the multi-game PCBs from.
You guys really crack me up.

Why don't you ask on the boards?


 

It was already asked in this thread and you did not respond

I am also interested in this board... Please let me know the details.  I forgot to to post this is my last message.

Jimmy

[CheffoJeffo]

Thanks for the PMs and emails asking where to buy the multi-game PCBs from.
You guys really crack me up.

Why don't you ask on the boards?

I would presume because you have already documented where the ROMs are on these boards and discussing how to get ROMs is against the rules.

Cheers

[jimmy_bored]

I'm not a PI, but given the ads on your site, and the topics that are allowed to be conversed I think I'm in the house....

Uh, it's not my site. It's saint's site. I have the mustache and floppy hat -- he has the helmet and shield.

You said "everything here is paid for by one of those companies". I asked for the source of that information.  You haven't answered the question.

Cheers.

Sorry... I thought you were the the supreme chancellor. Since that's not the case, I don't think a direct answer is appropriate....  But I still, "love you man..."

[jimmy_bored]

Thanks for the PMs and emails asking where to buy the multi-game PCBs from.
You guys really crack me up.

Why don't you ask on the boards?

I would presume because you have already documented where the ROMs are on these boards and discussing how to get ROMs is against the rules.

Cheers

LMFAO...

Where have you been???  Watch the google ads and you'll see <<<reference removed by saint -- don't link to rom sellers please>>> advertised... Who needs a search when its at the top of the page...

Lets not feed the  .

[jimmy_bored]

Im moving to Sweden! 

Quote form link:


Are the girls are HOT HOT HOT!

Very hottttttttttttttttttttttt................

[CheffoJeffo]

LMFAO...

Where have you been???  Watch the google ads and you'll see romnation advertised... Who needs a search when its at the top of the page...

Sorry .. the skin I use doesn't show the ads. I guess that explains where you are coming from, though.

Cheers.

[majs]

Also,

Thanks for the PMs and emails asking where to buy the multi-game PCBs from.
You guys really crack me up.

Why don't you ask on the boards?

 

OK, so where do you get them? 

[saint]

Get this straight - this web site is paid for by me, out of my personal pocket. I get advertising dollars from Google Adsense, and from mamemarquees.com, and once in a blue moon an affiliate sale from Amazon, X-Arcades, and mameroom. There are zero rom advertisements allowed here. In fact, I cut my own pocketbook by specifically banning ROM vendors from my Google ads, which limits the amount of ads I get from Google. This is not a MAME site. This is an arcade control site. There are hundreds and hundreds of games you can play with arcade controls that do not involve MAME or emulation, or involve legally purchased emulation. Yes, you can be a pirate if you want, but to claim that anyone involved in this hobby must be a pirate is blowing smoke out your keester. You're just plain wrong.

I bought every single ROM that starroms had legally available for purchase when they were in existance, including ROMs for games I physically own. I have purchased every arcade compilation available for the PC that I'm aware of. The most often used games on the Project Arcade cabinet are "Best Friends" from http://www.retro64.com/, and Jazz Jackrabbit 2 from Epic ... yes, both purchased. My kids love them.

Be a pirate if you wish, but don't paint everyone with your paintbrush, it doesn't wash.

--- saint

Also,

Thanks for the PMs and emails asking where to buy the multi-game PCBs from.
You guys really crack me up.

Why don't you ask on the boards?

 

LMFAO... My point exactly....

If you think this website is paid for by non-grey market companies(e.g. boiler rooms walking the legal line) you are living in a fantasy land.  Everything here is paid for by one of these companies.

Welcome to pirate land... Ahoyyy.... mates

[saint]

By the way (and perhaps this has already been addressed, if so I'll nuke my reply when I find it) -- it's entirely possible that it *is* less legal to sell than to possess illegal material. I believe in the US that possession of pot, for instance, carries a lesser penalty than possession with an intent to sell. It wouldn't surprise me if such variations existed for copyrighted material as well. I am, however, talking out of my hat on this one as this is purely conjecture.  "I gave them away instead of selling them" wouldn't fly worth a flip in court though in either case I'm sure.

The above isn't an attempt at moral persuasion one way or another -- that's between you, your conscience, and God -- it's just a statement that I would think long and hard before engaging in a venture that included transfer of copyrighted material you don't have the rights to distribute. Is the money worth the risk to your house, possessions, and liberty?  You won't think so if someone takes you to court. Even if you avoid severe penalty, you'll pay a fortune in court costs, lawyer costs, and the toll on your psyche and wits. You'll make at least as much money at a boring 9-5 job without all that.

Now, making these things for fun and profit without venturing into illegal material?  Several vendors have done so, some with more success than others. I suspect it's a saturated market unless you can find a way to undercut costs significantly without compromising quality -- so far that's proven to be the toughest nut to crack. 

--- saint

Selling a machine with roms is no more or less legal than you having them yourself. Do you think you above the law by having them privately and think nobody will find out? Dude, you are on here saying you have a MAME machine, with roms, and your ISP address is accessible. Doh!

However, I didn't sell my machines with roms anyway. I am not stupid. I am in businees and you need to protect yourself every way you can.  I just 'gave' them away on DVD instead! LOL

The whole rom issue is completly overated IMO. If the owners of the 'protected' rom images were that concerned then they would shut down sites which contain roms for FREE download and also prosecute rom burners who have paypal accounts which contain their details.  Have you ever heard of anyone that has been charged with a rom 'offence'? I haven't.

Anyway, I don't build MAME machines anymore. Too much hassles.
How legal are the multi boards that are around these days that use a cut down version of MAME? Not very right? What about Clay and his multi boards or Arcadeshop? Or the 100, 200, 400, 800 in 1 boards from China which clearly show a hard drive sitting on top! If you ghost that hard drive you will even see ArcadeOS running on it!

Who cares, they should be happy we still play these games and think of how many businesses wouldn't be operating or would take a serious decline in income if we didn't have access to roms. Sh*tloads!

Website owners
Artwork suppliers
Cabinet builders
Electronics suppliers
Joystick/button suppliers
Ultimarc
Keywhiz
T-molding
Me!!!

Dont get to tied up in the legality of roms mate. Lets just be thankful to the MAME team and all the rom dumpers and 100s of others who have contributed to keeping these old games we love alive.

 I  to them all and so should every member on this forum and 1000s of others who are re-living their mis-spent youth. 

[saint]

Bah ... message removed as I totally missed the switch to discussing all-in-one boards and it doesn't apply.

[saint]

If anyone has seen a rom seller advertised on this site's Google ads, please let me know so I can add them to the ban list.  As far as I know there haven't been any slipping through for many many months, and they get banned as quickly as I'm made aware of them.

--- saint

Thanks for the PMs and emails asking where to buy the multi-game PCBs from.
You guys really crack me up.

Why don't you ask on the boards?

I would presume because you have already documented where the ROMs are on these boards and discussing how to get ROMs is against the rules.

Cheers

LMFAO...

Where have you been???  Watch the google ads and you'll see <<<reference removed by saint -- don't link to rom sellers please>>> advertised... Who needs a search when its at the top of the page...

Lets not feed the  .

[quarterback]

Does anyone on here actually do this as a full time job?
I'm having so much fun making my cab I was wondering if it is possible to sell cabs if they are built to a really high standard, seems like the perfect job to me 

Well, I guess I should defer to Night Walker's answer since he does this and I don't.... but I'd still say the answer is "no".

Search around, you're certainly not the first person to wonder and not the first to ask.   My response is that there already are already people who have established businesses doing what you're asking about but I'm not sure any of them are rolling in the dough.   It's a niche market.   The advice in the past has been something to the effect of:

 "Give it a shot.  Try selling some to your friends, neighbors, co-workers but you'll probably find that the market is small"
"You'll find that people don't want to pay what it costs to make one-off cabs (and for your labor)."
"You'll find That shipping cabs is expensive, and that legally selling arcade cabinets without MAME and ROMS installed, means that the end-user needs some MAME knowledge, in which case, it's likely they'll build their own cab"
"You'll find that you become a computer tech who has to troubleshoot their machines for them when something doesn't work" etc

Again, there just aren't that many people buying these things and most of those who might buy them are going to want them to be a turn-key gaming solution. 

If it's fun for you, then go for it.  Give it a run and see what happens.  But you should think about how many hours you've spent on your cab?  What hourly-wage would you need to do this for a living?  Then add that up with all the supplies and come up with a total.   Now shop that price around and see what you can do.  If you've got some rich friends, you could be in business, but one reason that this community exists is because we're not willing to spend $3,000+ to play 20-games on an Ultracade machine.    And, outside of people in this BYOAC community, I know exactly ZERO with arcade games in their homes.

My 2-cents

Geez, you change your tune quick mate.

My tune has not changed by one single note.   The fact you think it has changed just makes it even more obvious that you are either not reading or understanding the words I'm typing.   


This is saint's forum.  Whether you, I or anybody else agrees with saint's rules is irrelevant.  It his house, and his rules apply.

[spacies]

  to Saint.

I dont believe in God, not until he shows me his face. If there is an afterlife, I just hope it is has roms!

 

[RobotronNut]

I have purchased every arcade compilation available for the PC that I'm aware of.

do you play these compilations directly, or do you play them through mame, as a "fair use" of the copyrighted material in the compilations you've purchased?

[Haze]

My point is simple.  You should not be using those multi-game boards, nor recommending them.  They're just as bad (actually worse IMO because they're set up for arcade use) than people selling ROMs, MAME Cabs etc. on ebay or whatever else.

If you're knowingly purchasing the things, and using them, making a profit with them, taking money from people via them thus creating a market for them then you ARE the bad guys.

If nobody purchased the boards, and suppliers were flooded with them then they wouldn't buy additional ones, the market would be gone.

It's impossible to operate those boards legally in any location.  We very specifically do NOT want MAME being used for commercial purposes.

[spacies]

.  We very specifically do NOT want MAME being used for commercial purposes.

I fully understand where you guys are coming from.
I have NOT given out website adresses for the PCBs and wont be doing so anytime soon.

I am saying these are out there but you clearly know that.

But maybe MAME should email China and Japan and explain it to them that what they are doing is illegal. Or maybe you should look in your own back yard first as I could find 10 webistes selling MAME machines in the USA in 0.13 seconds using Google. Theres even one with Celebs playing them!

I am sorry if I have come across the wrong way.
I love what you guys have done but it has been exploited while you were sleeping.

Also, if we didn't have a product to buy in the first place then this wouldn't be a problem. Not the other way around.
You stop the source you stop the problem. Because if the market was flooded then the price would drop and even more people would buy them.

[Haze]

We are aware that it is a problem.  Just because we're aware of something doesn't mean it's easy for us to stop it.  If things were that simple there wouldn't be any drugs problems anywhere in the world, and you'd never have to worry about getting shot on the street etc.

Please remember that we work on MAME mostly because we enjoy working on it.  We don't get paid for it, we don't have money to try and track down whoever is producing these things in China etc.   What we can do is inform anybody who is using them that they shouldn't be using them.  I'm sure one day MAME will end up having to emulate them to document that they existed, but it's sad to see them in operation.

You guys gave Ultracade a lot of stick here without actually ever proving that it was MAME.  The majority of these Chinese/HK/Taiwan things are KNOWN to be MAME.

[NightGod]

  I'm sure one day MAME will end up having to emulate them to document that they existed, but it's sad to see them in operation.

That phrase simply drips with irony-I love it!

[saint]

If you're not good in life, all the ROMs in the afterlife are the Atari 2600 ET.

to Saint.

I dont believe in God, not until he shows me his face. If there is an afterlife, I just hope it is has roms!

 

[danny_galaga]

spacies, the difference people are trying to point out is much like the difference between downloading some illegal mp3s, compared to downloading them and then selling cds on a rug on the street. technically they are both illegal, but who is the law going to chase first? also, from an australian perspective. we are descended from convicts. standover tactics are not dead here! iffen i go and set up some totally illegal machines somewhere, it wont be the law i have to worry about. itll be angry arcade owners. which would suck because ive seen some of those 40 in 1 games in the 'legit' arcades.

talking of dodgy chinese pcbs. they are pirated obviously (arrggghhh! by the way  ). at any time, whoever is importing them into a western country, can expect a friendly visit from customs. china famously has no copyright laws. but bring that merchandise into a 'western' country and its not chinese law you are playing with. same as if i go and buy a whole bunch of knock off dvds from bali. customs turn a blind eye to a few, but if its obvious by the fact i have several boxes of them that i want to sell them i can expect trouble...

i can tell you now that if you tried to set up 41 machines with pirated games in australia, and probably the US then once other arcade owners cotton on, they will be more than happy to give your details to the man. or sort something out themselves...

edit: just looked at your site. nice work BTW 

[shardian]

If you're not good in life, all the ROMs in the afterlife are the Atari 2600 ET.

to Saint.

I dont believe in God, not until he shows me his face. If there is an afterlife, I just hope it is has roms!

 

Don't forget atari pacman.

[RayB]

What a great thread! 

There's some truth to some of what Spacies has to say. We just don't want to hear it. In my opinion, there is much hypocrisy on all sides of the argument.

I hope this thread doesn't end up in Post Hell. Spacies dissection of one of these jamma boards was very informational. I had no idea how those things were built. It's really interesting learning that they are just PCs running ArcadeOS and MAME, and even more eye opening is the fact that they have Windows 98 on there rather than a Free DOS! WOW, how brazen of them!

[leapinlew]

What a great thread! 

There's some truth to some of what Spacies has to say. We just don't want to hear it. In my opinion, there is much hypocrisy on all sides of the argument.

Yes, there is some truth to what Spacies is saying and I'm not disputing that. The primary issue to me is the building of machines to put into commercial settings and his "enjoy it while it lasts" attitude. That kind of mentality will bring the gray area of this hobby to the front and center stage. And we all know how much friendlier the hobby will be if lawyers get involved.

Spacies also assumes this is a ROM driven hobby. This may be true for a large portion of the crowd, as Saint pointed out, it doesn't cover everyone.

With all this being said, Spacies is alright with me. He has some obvious building talent and seems like a good guy overall. What he's doing is neat, but I wonder what impact he (and others like him) are having.

[horseboy]

Scabies, I have a few points for ya.

to Saint.

I dont believe in God, not until he shows me his face. If there is an afterlife, I just hope it is has roms!

 

You, sir, are an idiot. If I was Saint (and 75% of the other people here would do the same), I would have already pushed that big glowing red button on his desk and jettisoned you back into obscurity. Saint is good enough to pay for and maintain this place for us to all discuss and help each other build our own arcade controls, and you should respect him for that. Just because he feels strongly enough not to use illegal roms is certainly no reason to mock him.

But maybe MAME should email China and Japan and explain it to them that what they are doing is illegal.

My Outlook address book got erased, do you have their emails?  

Or maybe you should look in your own back yard first as I could find 10 webistes selling MAME machines in the USA in 0.13 seconds using Google. Theres even one with Celebs playing them!

How much do you want to bet that none of those machines come with the ROMs? If any of them do, a couple of well placed phone calls could end that in a hurry.

I am sorry if I have come across the wrong way.

You have, and I already knew you were sorry.

I love what you guys have done but it has been exploited while you were sleeping.

The only person freely admitting exploitation here is.........you.

Also, if we didn't have a product to buy in the first place then this wouldn't be a problem. Not the other way around.
You stop the source you stop the problem. Because if the market was flooded then the price would drop and even more people would buy them.

Wow, what a revelation. My outlook has totally changed due to this statement. So wise are you.

The U.S. government can't stop people in Mexico from making meth, if they could it would stop a huge portion of the meth problems here. Since they can't, though, I now feel the only thing to do is capitalize off of it. Well, I'd love to keep chatting, but I got to get to the school yard down the road. It's almost recess!!!!!

 

[Chris]

There's always someone who's going to take a look at the hard work of folks giving their work away for free and rub their hands and say "How can I make money off this?"  I face it all the time with WinCab jukebox; people who build jukebox cabinets and "just give away" the software in violation of the license.

The bottom line, folks, is that he's just yanking our chains and laughing his ass off as we all get frothy.  Spacies is a troll, the type we've seen come and go plenty of times before.  Put him on Ignore and move on.   

[jimmy_bored]

It amazes me that this thread is still open... I also enjoy the fact that these types of topics get the most posts and reads.  Yet when I ask what a certain cabinet material is no one knows... 

This thread is as good as the Hanaho one...   Lets stay focused on arcade controls like the saint said... He pays for it and this is just wasting bandwidth. 

BTW - I love you all! 

[CheffoJeffo]

Yet when I ask what a certain cabinet material is no one knows... 

OK ... I responded, but you may want to post pics for questions like that.

Cheers

[Santoro]

The bottom line, folks, is that he's just yanking our chains and laughing his ass off as we all get frothy.  Spacies is a troll, the type we've seen come and go plenty of times before.  Put him on Ignore and move on.

Agree & Done. (wait, is there an ignore function here?)

[horseboy]

It amazes me that this thread is still open... I also enjoy the fact that these types of topics get the most posts and reads.  Yet when I ask what a certain cabinet material is no one knows... 

Uh huh, and you are 7 of the first 68 replies. So what exactly was your point?

[Chris]

The bottom line, folks, is that he's just yanking our chains and laughing his ass off as we all get frothy.  Spacies is a troll, the type we've seen come and go plenty of times before.  Put him on Ignore and move on.

Agree & Done. (wait, is there an ignore function here?)

There is, but it looks like it only works for PM's.    Pretty glaring omission from any forum software...

[jimmy_bored]

It amazes me that this thread is still open... I also enjoy the fact that these types of topics get the most posts and reads.  Yet when I ask what a certain cabinet material is no one knows... 

Uh huh, and you are 7 of the first 68 replies. So what exactly was your point?

Do you really need a point to understand?  What was your contribution to the thread?  Nothing but garbage, absolutely nothing of value and more importantly nothing about arcade controls.  So whats your point of relevance to the topic?

BTW - I love you man!

[Chris]

The bottom line, folks, is that he's just yanking our chains and laughing his ass off as we all get frothy.  Spacies is a troll, the type we've seen come and go plenty of times before.  Put him on Ignore and move on.

Agree & Done. (wait, is there an ignore function here?)

There is, but it looks like it only works for PM's.    Pretty glaring omission from any forum software...

Found a mod for it, posted it on the Forum Discussion board.

[horseboy]

It amazes me that this thread is still open... I also enjoy the fact that these types of topics get the most posts and reads.  Yet when I ask what a certain cabinet material is no one knows... 

Uh huh, and you are 7 of the first 68 replies. So what exactly was your point?

Do you really need a point to understand?  What was your contribution to the thread?  Nothing but garbage, absolutely nothing of value and more importantly nothing about arcade controls. 

Actually, I was letting scabies know that he was making no sense in his defense of selling illegal roms. But, I can see where you wouldn't understand that, as you never make any sense.

So whats your point of relevance to the topic?

Well, my post towards you was making a point by asking a simple question. You are "upset" because posts such as this get all of the replies and reads as opposed to other posts with more content about arcade controls. I will now rephrase my question a bit so you can understand.

How can you be so shocked that posts like this get all of the reads/replies, when you contribute 7 8 replies to the cause?

Just doesn't make much sense to me. That was my point relevant to your ignorant post.

[jimmy_bored]

[



Uh huh, and you are 7 of the first 68 replies. So what exactly was your point?

Do you really need a point to understand?  What was your contribution to the thread?  Nothing but garbage, absolutely nothing of value and more importantly nothing about arcade controls. 
[/quote]

Actually, I was letting scabies know that he was making no sense in his defense of selling illegal roms. But, I can see where you wouldn't understand that, as you never make any sense.

So whats your point of relevance to the topic?

Well, my post towards you was making a point by asking a simple question. You are "upset" because posts such as this get all of the replies and reads as opposed to other posts with more content about arcade controls. I will now rephrase my question a bit so you can understand.

How can you be so shocked that posts like this get all of the reads/replies, when you contribute 7 8 replies to the cause?

Just doesn't make much sense to me. That was my point relevant to your ignorant post.
[/quote]

The topic is, "Is there a living to be made from arcade cabs?".  Where is there selling roms in the topic?  The real ignorance is going off topic, like you did.  Your count to the thread continues to grow? Are you trying to catch up. 

Bottom line is grow up.  Learn when not to speak because in instances like this your limited mental capacity is clearly demonstrated.

[DeLong20]

You forgot to tell me you loved me

[horseboy]

The topic is, "Is there a living to be made from arcade cabs?".  Where is there selling roms in the topic?  The real ignorance is going off topic, like you did.  Your count to the thread continues to grow? Are you trying to catch up. 

Bottom line is grow up.  Learn when not to speak because in instances like this your limited mental capacity is clearly demonstrated.

I was simply debating the same thing that had been being debated for the last 60 posts.

So, which of your posts were on the topic at hand...

Was it the first one where you called Saint a pirate and said this site is paid for by pirate companies?
Or is it the next one where you say you run pirate sites?
Maybe it is the 3rd one where you ask where to get the pirated boards?
Is it one of those next 2 where you berate CheffoJeffo and call him a tool for telling you that discussion of where to get roms is illegal?
It has to be the one where you laugh because people are still posting in this thread, right?
I know it wasn't the last 2 where you were futilely arguing with me.
Wait, I found it. The only one I missed...

Very hottttttttttttttttttttttt................

That is actually the most informative post I have ever seen you post on the boards. Good job, bud. Now shoo before you make yourself look even more ridiculous.

[ahofle]

 
Thread outta control!!!