big scare

[severdhed]

well, the other day i decided that i needed to redesign aspects of my cabinet (see link in signature for pics)  as it was, I had one large control panel, with a separate smaller panel behind it..followed by the monitor which was set back in pretty deep. 

i decided that i needed to move the monitor forward to make it look more authentic, as well as consolidate the controls into one panel.  I am still trying to decide where to put everything, cause that isnt easy.

but anyway, i was building a new mounting bracked for my 19" LCD monitor.  It used to just sit ona  shelf inside, but when i moved it forward, the base of the monitor got in the way..so i decided to use the mounting screws on the back to hang it.  walmart sells a mounting bracket, but the cheapest one they have was almost $70..so i fashioned my own.  anyway i have everything in place and looking good.  i decided to take it out because i need to work on some other things...well, i apparently forgot to put one of the screws in when i did, because when i was taking the screws out, i thought i still had one holding it, and when i let go to pick up a screw that fell, the monitor fell out of the front of the cabinet, face down onto a small speaker that was on the keybaord tray (control panel had been removed earlier)  flipped over and landed on the floor.  part of the metal bracket was still fastened to the monitor, and seems as if it took most of the impact.(it bent pretty bad).  there is a small mark on teh screen where it landed on teh speaker, but it isnt very noticable. i fired it up and sure enough it came right back on.  i was so relieved.  the cabinet is in peices now, so i cant put it through extended testing, but i fired up the pc and the dreamcast and everything looks ok.    i couldnt beleive it...it fell nearly 4 feet onto cement floor and survived.


anyway, onto the control panel, here is a 3d rendering of the panel the way it is, and a few alternate configs i came up with...any suggestions?


Original
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/2146/currentuv5.png

option 1
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/5442/option1ht9.png

option 2
http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/3946/option2qu4.png

Option 3
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8312/option3qk1.png

some of the admin buttons may get moved to the left side of the panel (on the end, similar to the pinball buttons, only towards the back).  the x-arcade program button will probably get moved to the right end, towards the back

i was also considering using non arcade buttons for the mouse buttons...that way they would be smaller and not as in the way...is that a really bad idea?

and i think i am going to order either a mag stick plus, or a t-stick plus (if i can find one)  to replace the player 1 stick.. right now, all sticks and buttons are x-arcade.

[bleemus]

I think I like option 1 the best, although the spinner looks pretty high up there.  But as long as it is playable to you, that is fine.

You might want to be careful of the mag-sticks, they have an incredibly short throw compared to most others.  I found it very hard to get used to it once you have played on something with a longer throw.

[ahofle]

Are you left handed?  If not, I'd do option 1, but swap the spinner and mouse buttons around.

[leapinlew]

I think I like option 1 the best, although the spinner looks pretty high up there.  But as long as it is playable to you, that is fine.

You might want to be careful of the mag-sticks, they have an incredibly short throw compared to most others.  I found it very hard to get used to it once you have played on something with a longer throw.

I agree regarding the magsticks. They aren't like the joysticks you find in the US on a fighting game layout. For a 4 way, they aren't bad. As an 8 way and for a game like street fighter, they aren't anything like what you would find in an arcade in the US.

As it stands, I like option 3, but get rid of the mouse buttons. Why do you need them? Couldn't you just map another button to those buttons instead?

[severdhed]

i am very torn on the magstik issue.  lots of people tell me not to get them, so i probably wont.  but i dont know what to do about 4 way games.  my wife loves pacman, but hates playing it on my 8way sticks(i agree with her)  but i dont really have the room for a 4 way stick..i am having a hard enough time fitting the trackball and spinner in there as it is.  i'm slowly but surely ending up with a frankenpanel.   

i would love to get rid of the mouse buttons, the only problem is, i use the trackball for navigating windows..so i need mouse buttons somewhere.

one of the goals of this project is also to minimize confusion for people who arent familiar with my cabinet.  I had some friends over the other day who played it for the first time, and they didnt know what to do.  so that means that it is designed poorly.  i want to get rid of all the unneeded buttons, or at least move them off of the control panel.  you cant see them in the pics, but there are also pinball flipper buttons, one on each side.  right now, they are not used for anything in mame, only used in visual pinball.  I'm wondering now, if visual pinball will let me use the left and right mouse buttons as flippers..if so, i could wire them up as mouse buttons...they would be there when i need them, but out of the way.  as for the x-arcade program button, that is very rarely used, i will move it to the right end of the panel, near the pinball button, but towards the back.. i think i'll do the same with two of the admin buttons on the top left.  i want to leave Escape and pause on the panel, so people can easily exit a game, or pause it.

I am right handed, to answer that question.  i originally put the mouse buttons on the right side of the trackball, because i could roll it with my thumb and use my two fingers for the buttons. (not for gaming, just in windows)

another issue is there is alot of open space above player 2 controls...it looks empty, but underneath there, the circuitboard for the x-arcade controller is mounted there, so i cant really put anything there, unless I move that.

i really want this thing to look more like a regular arcade machine..i know no real arcades have trackballs, spinners and joysticks like this all on one unit...but i want the extra stuff minimized. 

i have no idea where i am going to put the volume control knob, or the KVM/dreamcast power/ controller selector switches either...but that is a different issue... it looks too cluttered and confusing to have them on the panel, so they have to go


thanks for your input, if anyone has any other suggestions, please share...im always open to new ideas.   (just a note, my wife says no matter what, the player 1 and player 2 start buttons have to be right next to each other, cause they look stupid if they are not....so i must keep them that way)

as for the joysticks, alot of people dont like the x-arcade stuff, i dont mind it...i just need a good way to play 4 way games...and as much as i was hoping the mag-stik was the answer to that problem, i have a feeling that it really is just going to cause other problems.  and i dont want to waste $40 to find out.   

so if i were to try to fit a dedicated 4way stick into this thing, what would you guys reccomend?  this is a wooden control panel with plexi overtop..alot of the 4 way sticks i have seen are for metal panels.  i guess i could do what i did with the trackball, cut out the wood and just mount it to the plexi, but i'm not sure if that would be strong enough for a joystick.  opinions?  plus, i need to save as much money as possible, we are expecting a baby in february and i have little money available for this project.   and as i am right now, i still have to buy a board for the new panel, and a piece of plexiglass for the monitor bezel. (the old one is glass, but it too tall now that i moved the monitor.)

speaking of which, how do you guys attach the plexi bezels?  it is going to be pretty much flush with the front edge of the cabinet... I was thinking of placing some small metal angle brackets behind it for it to lean against, and use magnets to hold it in place...i dont think they will have an effect on my LCD monitor...but if anyone has a better way, let me know


thanks for all the suggestions...keep em coming

here is a mock up of another option...
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4679/option4xm5.png

[leapinlew]

I got a suggestion...

Ditch something.

The spinner for example. Put a 4 way in it's place. Or! Even better, build a bartop that has a vertical mounted monitor so you can play the games as they were intended. I'm sure there are some spinner games (not just driving games), but the spinners main reason for existance is Tempest. Ask yourself if the money for a spinner may not be better suited for a 4 way.

I personally built a cabinet just for 4 way games. I made the monitor in a vertical format. I was going to buy a spinner to add to it, but my friend talked me out of it and in my case, he's right. I've done my best to make my cabinets as end user friendly as possible and I would say that almost everyone who uses my cabinets do a good job of it on their own.

Other suggestions:
Don't mount the x-arcade program button on the outside of the cabinet. Have it danling inside or mount it inside somehow. Since you would have to slide the x-arcade into program mode, you'd have to also mount the slider on the outside also. Once you set it up the way you want - you won't use the program button again.

Remap the mouse buttons and remove them from your CP. Question though - why are you navigating windows? You got something besides Mame running on this?

As for the x-arcades. They are super knock offs for the most part. You'll be fine with them. You may have to extend the wires from the PCB to reach everywhere you need to.

[severdhed]

well, i like your suggestions, but i need to clarify a few things.  i already gutted the x-arcade and mounted it in a panel like this:



i already extended the wires and got everything working.
the x-arcade slider switch is already mounted on the right end of the contrl panel, so it is externally accesable. ( i switch it when i want to play doom on the cabinet)

As for navigating windows, i am still in the developement stages when it comes to front ends and software...i have been changing my MALA layouts alot...so i have been using windows alot...also, i sometimes use it to hit the web interface of xbmc on my modded xbox what i want to listen to music. instead of booting up my projector just to select a song.


i do have a bar where i could make a bartop, but i would rather only have one cabinet.  We have a baby on the way and are probably going to be moving, i dont want to have to find room for two arcade machines in the new place.

i thought about ditching the tracball and spinner, but I put alot of work into them..when i got the trackball, it was broken and didnt work.  i managed to repair it, and hack it into a mouse so it would work with mame, i just ordered bearings and rollers for it today.

the spinner i just made like last week.  I didnt put alot of money into it, (about $5)  but i am proud of the fact that i made a working spinner out of some junk i had lying around(mainly a hard drive and a mouse), so therefor i want to use it.  I already had it in the cabinet, just in a stupid place. 

the only control that i have to buy at this point is a 4way stick.  i was planning on a magstik..but i have a feeling im not going to be happy with it..so im trying to find a way to fit a dedicated 4way into the design.
 

im just trying to get the best layout possible, one where every control is comfortable to use, and is in a location that doesnt look totally like crap.

[bvicarious]

One cool thing I've seen done is a raised strip of small pushbuttons at the top of the panel, where it meets with the monitor bezel, for all the administrative functions. I think that would work well with yours.


The top here is how i used to have my panel set up. It worked okay and everything was accessible without knocking into other buttons or sticks. I eventually changed it because of the awful button set up, i don't know what i was on when designing that. Below is how i'd set things up if i were in your predicament. Some artwork on the panel would tie it all together.

[Xiaou2]

My suggestions:

 You could lower the joys and buttons..   then add 4-ways just about or directly above the 8 ways.

 The reach wouldnt be bad,  and they shouldnt interfere with each other as far as
positioning goes.   Maybe leave a 1" gap space between them.

 Drag the trackball back down..   and the spinner(s) above the botton sets. (to the left or right sides of them, not the direct middle)    and add dual analog pedal sets at the bottom of the cab    )

 Coin and start at the top section youve made..  and All admin buttons above those.

[severdhed]

the trackball cant really move down any further.  the panel size is 30" by 12", the top panel sticks out 1/2" on eather side, and 1" on the front...so outside dimensions of the box below the panel is 11" x 29",    then factor in the thickness of the wood, wich is 5/8"..so that means that teh bottom edge of the tracball assembly has to be a leat 1 and 5/8" up from the bottom edge.  the center of the trackball is approximately 3" from the bottom edge of teh housing, so that puts the trackball at almost 5 inches up from the bottom...not alot i can do about that.


i dont want to make the panel any larger than it currently is, i like the size of it, plus i want to reuse the box portion of it, and just replace the top panel.

the sticks could move down a bit, but i want to leave enough room to rest my arms on the panel.  when i installed this panel, i made it much higher than most arcade control panels.  i found that real arcade machines are too low and they hurt my wrists after a very short time, so i made mine so that when standing, my elbows are at 90 degrees for a very comfortable position.  i dont want the sticks too close to the front, or i will lose comfort