Author Topic: Which ones do YOU prefer? (Read 4576 times)

Amra · « **on:** March 16, 2003, 03:26:01 am »

Ok, Ive been studying this stuff for a while, and while I have learned a LOT, there is still much to figure.

For my first post, I would like to ask a question, actually two questions, and hopefully this can become a good post to help others to decide what it is i am trying to decide myself.

My first question is about joysticks.

Surely we all know that there are four most commonly used joysticks from happs (not including leaf switch controlls from wilco, maby on a diffrent topic)... I will tell you the types and a brief description, in case you DONT know the diffrent types.

1. Super Joystick ($14.20, on sale till 3/31/03 for only 7.99)
This joystick seems to be a basic design, returns to center by way of a spring, controlled by microswitches, but also has an actuator that allows it to change from a 4 way to an 8 way.

2. Ultimate Joystick ($13.05)
This joystick cannot change from 4 to 8 way, but comes in three varieties, 2 way, 4 way and 8 way. This one appears to be a basic design, returns to center by way of spring, and uses microswitches.

3. Competition Joystick ($13.05)
This joystick seems similar to the Ultimate, only can come with a heavier spring, meaning the joystick is tighter feeling, but only comes in 8 way. Other then that, seems same as ultimate joystick.

4. Perfect 360

kspiff · « **Reply #1 on:** March 16, 2003, 07:43:27 am »

Well.. it looks like you have all the facts.. and I can give my impressions, but it really all comes down to a matter of personal preference..

There are only a couple things I can say above and beyond the facts:

1.) If you like to hear your joys and buttons, go with microswitch-based components; if not go with leaf switch (or P360s also, as far as joys).

2.) If you like to 'feel' the corners distinctly (which to be honest is really only useful for fighting games and the like), go with Competitions or (blech) Ultimates; if not, -- and you can afford it -- the P360s are the way to go. I wouldn't recommend Supers myself.. I hate the cheap microswitches with actuator arms. Also good are T/J-sticks if you want easily switched 4/8-ways (esp. if you want a good ball-top joy).

I personally use Competitions and Competition PBs and think they're great.. but then again I mainly play fighters and horiz/vert shooters, don't care how loose/tense the joy spring is, don't use restrictors, have hams sewn on where my hands used to be, and on and on.. if all you want to do is play Pac and Galaga you would (probably) hate them.. you should choose the joystick that best matches your gaming preferences.

Frostillicus · « **Reply #2 on:** March 16, 2003, 07:44:46 am »

I would recommend the excellent joystick review OSCARCONTROLS.com put up on their site HERE.
They cover ultimate, super, competitions. Not many choose the 360.
WICO brand is good, but the 4-way leafs are hard to find.

As for buttons, I think most people go for horizontal pushbuttons - so stay away from the vertical ones(tendency to break down). I think the only diff between the three are slightly different sizes and the competition is concave.
good luck.

Distortion · « **Reply #3 on:** March 16, 2003, 07:52:40 am »

Actually, I prefer the Ultimates because the horizontal microswitches tend to be noisier since the button itself is completely hollow.

As for joysticks, I don't have much of a rounded experience, but I love my Happ supers.

rampy · « **Reply #4 on:** March 16, 2003, 10:59:19 am »

I use the Super-esque imitation X-arcade joysticks (9.99 plus shipping for 2 qty currently on ebay)

They are OK (read satisified not ecstatic) and were a budget driven decision.

The p360's are supposed to be "the best" but for me (even on sale) the price to value isn't their for me...

One important thing to note is which games you like to play (or will want to play ) BYOAC'ers that really like "modern" fighting games have different joystick needs than someone who prefers mr. do over MvsC (i.e. 4-way vs 8-way)

IF you have the bread, and want to primarily play 8 way games, it's hard to go wrong with the precision of the p360's... and then (space permitting) shlop a dedicated 4-way on your control panel (even leaf if that's your taste)...

The T/J-sticks over at ultimarc are a good compromise for 4way/8way type dilemnas...

It really all comes down to feel and what you liked playing in the arcade during your heyday...

If I was doing it again I'd want p360's and a dediated 4way.... OR a pair of t-sticks

*Shrug*

rampy

PS This was a great newbie/1st post... It was obvious that you did some research and asked a clear specific question about a speciific aspect of building your own arcade controls... Kudos for that...

eightbit · « **Reply #5 on:** March 16, 2003, 11:32:31 am »

Well you know a lot more about the different types than many here. What it really comes down to is personal preference. A few people have mentioned the J and T sticks, theirs also a E stick, these are sold by http://ultimarc.com/. Not to confuse the issue farther but you really should check those out.

Well if money is no object buy them all and use the ones that work best. Sell of the others for a small loss on ebay or come back here and post them in the buy/sell forum.

Personally I like horizontal pushbuttons and for an 8 way joystick the p360. The supers are close to the feel of the p360 and I dislike the ultimates. The T-stick is my favorite 4/8 way switchable, of all the switchable sticks I've tried its the only one that even came close to acceptable 4 way play.

Wienerdog · « **Reply #6 on:** March 16, 2003, 12:26:39 pm »

Quote from: rampy on March 16, 2003, 10:59:19 am

PS This was a great newbie/1st post... It was obvious that you did some research and asked a clear specific question about a speciific aspect of building your own arcade controls... Kudos for that...

But nobody will ever know that "Which ones do YOU prefer?" is a discussion about preferred joysticks and buttons. Thanks for the work summarizing the info, at least I will remember where to find it.

Odonadon · « **Reply #7 on:** March 16, 2003, 03:02:14 pm »

Well, having both Competitions and Super joystick, I would recommend, without a doubt, the Competition. The Super is crap. At least for what I play - Street Fighter, shooters, Golden axe type stuff, etc. The Supers are friggin impossible to hit the diagonals, and that's a huge turn off.

All I've tried are the Ultimate pushbuttons. I think they're pretty good. I like concave - can't imagine playing with convex buttons on an Arcade. It's all well and good for your PSX and stuff, but not on an arcade.

Odonadon

Distortion · « **Reply #8 on:** March 16, 2003, 03:35:24 pm »

Quote from: Odonadon on March 16, 2003, 03:02:14 pm

The Supers are friggin impossible to hit the diagonals, and that's a huge turn off.

Are you sure you don't have the actuator on upside down? It's probably in 4-way mode. The complaint I've heard about supers is that sometimes you can't hit anything BUT the diagonals, but that's noting a set of needle nosed pliers won't fix.

Odonadon · « **Reply #9 on:** March 16, 2003, 05:44:01 pm »

Quote from: Distortion on March 16, 2003, 03:35:24 pm

Quote from: Odonadon on March 16, 2003, 03:02:14 pm
The Supers are friggin impossible to hit the diagonals, and that's a huge turn off.
Are you sure you don't have the actuator on upside down? It's probably in 4-way mode. The complaint I've heard about supers is that sometimes you can't hit anything BUT the diagonals, but that's noting a set of needle nosed pliers won't fix.

Pretty sure, providing instructions that came with it are correct. I even tried flipping it around

. I decided to go with the Competitions. You shouldn't have to adjust anything with pliers

. That's the sign of a shoddy product, wouldn't you say? "My pushbuttons are great! It took me an hour to make some adjustments to them so all 20 would work properly, buy they're awesome!"

I'm not really saying the Supers are shoddy. But I can't see why anyone would choose them over the Competitions - those are great. Cheaper, to boot.

Odonadon

Chris · « **Reply #10 on:** March 16, 2003, 07:00:03 pm »

At least the Supers are adjustable, the only ones that Happ makes that are. Of course, I upgraded to Supers from Ultimates, and anything beats Ultimates...
--Chris

rampy · « **Reply #11 on:** March 16, 2003, 07:14:55 pm »

hey o-man,

so by that definition all leaf switches are shoddy too?

Some things require tweaking to get working optimally towards your preferred feel... that's why i'm always under the hood (proverbially speaking - and not to adjust actuators)

*shrug*

rampy

Distortion · « **Reply #12 on:** March 16, 2003, 07:24:50 pm »

If you play with the actuator a little, it's pretty easy to figure out even without instructions. The big side inward means 8-way, the little side inward means 4-way.

Xiaou2 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 16, 2003, 08:34:30 pm »

Quote from: rampy on March 16, 2003, 07:14:55 pm

hey o-man,

so by that definition all leaf switches are shoddy too?

Some things require tweaking to get working optimally towards your preferred feel... that's why i'm always under the hood (proverbially speaking - and not to adjust actuators)

*shrug*

rampy

Actually, Yes.

Leaf joysticks were replaced by microswitch joysticks because they kept comming out of propper allingment so often.

Also, The Supers microswitches arnt meant to be adjusted... and if you bend them too far, they are toasted.

Leafs are actually better and more reliable than the supers micros - because leafs are meant to be bent - as they are springs.

Im my opinion, the supers are shoddy. They were designed to be smoother in motion... and accomplished that, but at the cost of diagnol accuracy. If anyone were to fix this, it would be using true leafs instead of the cheap and fragile leaf-like micros.

Kaeru the Frog · « **Reply #14 on:** March 16, 2003, 08:53:46 pm »

I was planning on asking this same question. I'm primarily interested in fighters. So far it seems the Competition is the way to go but nothing has been said about the 360. Can any one recommend one over the other?

And what about the Competition buttons? I find it hard to imagine using the convex buttons but I've never tried them.

Odonadon · « **Reply #15 on:** March 17, 2003, 12:20:40 am »

Quote from: rampy on March 16, 2003, 07:14:55 pm

hey o-man,

so by that definition all leaf switches are shoddy too?

Some things require tweaking to get working optimally towards your preferred feel... that's why i'm always under the hood (proverbially speaking - and not to adjust actuators)

*shrug*

rampy

If it's a pre-assembled joystick with leaf switches (IF - sounds ridiculous, which is why you don't see these) and you need to spend a while adjusting them, then YES, that's a shoddy product. Leaf switch joysticks and buttons are completely different.

Odonadon

Amra · « **Reply #16 on:** March 17, 2003, 01:50:26 pm »

Wow, a lot of great information, thank you for the relpies! Also thanks for the review @ Oscars, that was awsome... just cant believe i never stumbled upon it before, heh.

It seems the concensus that the Competitions are the best 8-way and none are great 4 ways, so I propose another question...

Do you supose an 8 way joystick could become tolarable 4 way joystick by making a square restrictor plate and sliding it into the joystick area?

It would look similar to the following image.

The three circles would be some kind of pin/connector/bolt that could be easily removed whenever i wanted to switch back and forth.

Does anyone think this could be a viable solution? It could be a thin metal like aluminum, then the edges covered in something to prevent damage to the joystick, something like door edge molding for cars.

Thanks again for any comments or suggestions!

rampy · « **Reply #17 on:** March 17, 2003, 02:01:54 pm »

Quote from: Amra on March 17, 2003, 01:50:26 pm

Do you supose an 8 way joystick could become tolarable 4 way joystick by making a square restrictor plate and sliding it into the joystick area?

It would look similar to the following image.

The three circles would be some kind of pin/connector/bolt that could be easily removed whenever i wanted to switch back and forth.

Does anyone think this could be a viable solution? It could be a thin metal like aluminum, then the edges covered in something to prevent damage to the joystick, something like door edge molding for cars.

Thanks again for any comments or suggestions!

Heh... while you were at oscars did you look at his restrictor plates, per chance? Or is it a like minds think a like type thing?

here's a link http://www.oscarcontrols.com/index_joystick.htm

Now, if there were only some way to electronically send mail.... =P

Rampy

Amra · « **Reply #18 on:** March 17, 2003, 02:13:18 pm »

Putting pinky to mouth and doing the best Dr Evil voice ever...

Sh*t.

----------------------
Well, that saves me a lot of time, lol. Guess it IS a viable solution after all! I guess I really need to go through Oscars site, appearently he has a lot of great stuff! Thanks rampy!

Edit: Ordered kit! Looks to be a perfect solution, now I dont have to purchase extra joysticks that I dont really want, and can use the extra money to purchase the P360

DeathMonk · « **Reply #19 on:** March 17, 2003, 02:21:00 pm »

Quote from: Kaeru the Frog on March 16, 2003, 08:53:46 pm

I was planning on asking this same question. I'm primarily interested in fighters. So far it seems the Competition is the way to go but nothing has been said about the 360. Can any one recommend one over the other?

And what about the Competition buttons? I find it hard to imagine using the convex buttons but I've never tried them.

I have P360's. My friend has a street fighter III cab with competitions in it. Comparing the two, I would say the P360's are better, but that may be because I have more time with them. The competitions feel good also, for fighters, but the P360's feel good for every type of game that i've played. So, if fighters are the ONLY thing you play, go with the comps, as they are cheaper, but if you want a joystick that perfoms great on every game, go with the P360's..

rampy · « **Reply #20 on:** March 17, 2003, 02:37:41 pm »

Quote from: Amra on March 17, 2003, 02:13:18 pm

Putting pinky to mouth and doing the best Dr Evil voice ever...

Sh*t.

----------------------
Well, that saves me a lot of time, lol. Guess it IS a viable solution after all! I guess I really need to go through Oscars site, appearently he has a lot of great stuff! Thanks rampy!

Edit: Ordered kit! Looks to be a perfect solution, now I dont have to purchase extra joysticks that I dont really want, and can use the extra money to purchase the P360

neuromancer · « **Reply #21 on:** March 17, 2003, 02:41:47 pm »

Quote from: Amra on March 17, 2003, 02:13:18 pm

viable solution after all! I guess I really need to go through Oscars site, appearently he has a lot of great stuff! Thanks rampy!

Oscar's website is worth looking over for sure!

There is another joysitck option that has built in restrictors:

www.ultimarc.com

Bob

eightbit · « **Reply #22 on:** March 17, 2003, 03:43:57 pm »

Quote from: neuromancer on March 17, 2003, 02:41:47 pm

There is another joysitck option that has built in restrictors:

The t-stick is the best switchable 4/8 way that I have ever tried. Its the only 4/8 way switchable that I've used that had acceptable 4 way action.

I finally installed my p360's yesterday and they were worth every penny. I should order a couple while they are on sale because my next cabinet will need them even for the $40 price.

Amra · « **Reply #23 on:** March 17, 2003, 05:33:06 pm »

If only someone had P360

Howard_Casto · « **Reply #24 on:** March 18, 2003, 03:56:42 pm »

SuckUp!

Seriously though, I think people make way big a deal out of the joystick debate. With the exception of the perfect 360's all joysticks are basically the same.

I'll say it before and I'll say it again, people who blame their joysticks just suck at the games they were playing. If your good then you can play well on about anything.

But for the record I don't think the p360's are the way to go. They kinda feel like a leaf from what I understand and yet they are much more accurate. The problem with that is you need accuracy mainly for fighters and we can all agree that leaf sticks aren't the best thing in the world for a fighter game.

rampy · « **Reply #25 on:** March 18, 2003, 04:23:16 pm »

Quote from: Howard_Casto on March 18, 2003, 03:56:42 pm

If your good then you can play well on about anything.

But for the record I don't think the p360's are the way to go. They kinda feel like a leaf from what I understand and yet they are much more accurate. The problem with that is you need accuracy mainly for fighters and we can all agree that leaf sticks aren't the best thing in the world for a fighter game.

That doesn't make sense howard... or is contradictary... *shrug*

rampy

Amra · « **Reply #26 on:** March 18, 2003, 04:36:01 pm »

They only /feel/ like leaf switches, and the only diffrence between the feel of a leaf switch and microswitch is usually the *click* you hear. The tension/tightness of the joystick itself can be changed by changing the spring, so again the only diffrence would be, *click*.

Now, as for accuracy, yes, fighters need accuracy, and the P 360

neuromancer · « **Reply #27 on:** March 19, 2003, 11:14:16 am »

Quote from: Howard_Casto on March 18, 2003, 03:56:42 pm

SuckUp!
Seriously though, I think people make way big a deal out of the joystick debate. With the exception of the perfect 360's all joysticks are basically the same.

Right, just like there's no difference between an automatic transmission and a manual,

Between a sharp tool and a dull one,

Between a raster display and a vector display,

Between a good paintbrush and a nasty one.

I could go on. My favorite stereo magazine quote, "*Any* difference is significant, you just have to decide if it's worth the extra cost".

Bob

jdjuggler · « **Reply #28 on:** March 19, 2003, 09:53:02 pm »

Quote from: eightbit on March 17, 2003, 03:43:57 pm

Quote from: neuromancer on March 17, 2003, 02:41:47 pm

I finally installed my p360's yesterday and they were worth every penny. I should order a couple while they are on sale because my next cabinet will need them even for the $40 price.

Can the P360's be modified in MAME to ignore the diagonals in the controler .ini files like the other (super/ulitmate) sticks?
JD

Odonadon · « **Reply #29 on:** March 19, 2003, 11:52:02 pm »

Quote from: jdjuggler on March 19, 2003, 09:53:02 pm

Quote from: eightbit on March 17, 2003, 03:43:57 pm
Quote from: neuromancer on March 17, 2003, 02:41:47 pm

I finally installed my p360's yesterday and they were worth every penny. I should order a couple while they are on sale because my next cabinet will need them even for the $40 price.

Can the P360's be modified in MAME to ignore the diagonals in the controler .ini files like the other (super/ulitmate) sticks?
JD

Of course.

Odonadon

jdjuggler · « **Reply #30 on:** March 21, 2003, 12:53:45 pm »

I was curious about the "spring?" tension on the P360's. I'd like to compare the spring tension to that of the Super's. I'm trying to decide between the two.
I've also heard that the P360's are the ones used in NFL Blitz? True? Thanks.

Amra · « **Reply #31 on:** March 21, 2003, 10:40:22 pm »

Ive ordered my P360's, Ill give you the 411 when they Get here and I can test them

jets · « **Reply #32 on:** March 21, 2003, 11:33:08 pm »

happ p360s all the way.

Wienerdog · « **Reply #33 on:** March 22, 2003, 01:42:39 am »

Is there a ball top that you can put on a p360? I'm considering dedicating one as a 4way with a restrictor plate. Otherwise I'll go with a ball top J-Stick.

kspiff · « **Reply #34 on:** March 22, 2003, 02:09:28 am »

I think that has been discussed before.. it was commented that those sticks will work with competition and super joys and that the P360 is a modified Super..

I don't think anyone has tried it, though, and I would probably sooner just buy a J-Stick than a competition/P360 + replacement handle + restrictor (if desired)..

Wienerdog · « **Reply #35 on:** March 22, 2003, 02:35:06 am »

Quote from: kspiff on March 22, 2003, 02:09:28 am

I don't think anyone has tried it, though, and I would probably sooner just buy a J-Stick than a competition/P360 + replacement handle + restrictor (if desired)..

I probably agree, but at $25 for a P360, it is close enough for me to think about it. I really don't like microswitch joysticks.

telengard · « **Reply #36 on:** March 22, 2003, 02:53:45 am »

Quote from: Amra on March 16, 2003, 03:26:01 am

The question is, which joystick do you use, which would you prefer, what if money were no object, and lastly...

Why?

I only use leaf joysticks, which weren't mentioned in your
list. For me there is no comparing them to microswitch joysticks.
I've also tried the Perfect 360s, I personally don't like them either.
I also tried the Perfect 360 "add on" for my WICO leafs, didn't
like those either.

If you are into the "old school" games, a leaf is the way to go.
The newer games, from what I've read in here, seem to be mostly
microswitch. Your best bet is to try them both and see what you like.

Amra · « **Reply #37 on:** March 22, 2003, 05:07:31 am »

Quote

I've also tried the Perfect 360s, I personally don't like them either.

What did you NOT like about them?

I emailed happs, they said the P360's are nothing like the Supers, so chances are, the Modified Super rumer is nothing but just that, a rumor.

As for Leaf Switches, I didnt include them because I personally do not plan on using one, though I like them for perticular games, like Pac Man, those arent the games I will be playing the most, so I decided to pass them up for something that works good not ONLY in those types of games, but in Fighters as well.

I will give a detailed layout of the design when I get them, which should be next week some time.

Edit: Almost forgot, Ill be putting up pictures of teh Joystick next week too, i.e. Connections, and etc. There seems to be a lack of knowledge about these joysticks.

jdjuggler · « **Reply #38 on:** March 24, 2003, 11:15:55 am »

Does anyone know if the spring tension on the P360's is similar to the supers? And, if it much stiffer, can they be adjusted?
Thanks.


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