Newbie saying Hi and a couple of questions. :-)

[TroyO]

Heya all. I just figured I'd introduce myself, say Hi and whatnot.

I've actually read and learned a lot reading the boards, so hopefully this won't be too painful a flurry of "Read the FAQ!"

I've started collecting stuff to make my first arcade cabinet, concentrating on the games I liked most (Joystick, Trackball and Driving... never went much for crazy controls.. spinners, yokes, etc.)

Anyway... first question out of the chute... what's everyone's experience playing games with the "wrong" controls? I understand driving games and the 270/360 difference, but what about using a trackball for a spinner? Or for a yoke? Are games just unplayable, or just feel different?

I want to make the arcade cab because I never got to play much when I was younger (35 now) so I missed the arcade experience. I always loved when I did get to play, but I don't have any games that have such an ingrained memory that I would miss the "feel" of them, so if my controls are off but playable it would be fine.

Anyway... plans for the machine...

I want a standup cab that I can pop the top off of and have it be luggable to parties, etc. (Detachable bartop?) The base will pretty much just hold extra controllers and such, and maybe the sub.

I have a X-Arcade 2 player CP and will be getting the trackball soon. All are USB, so I'm hoping it will be hot swappable.

I have a USB steering wheel on the way (analogue) and I plan to use a ezarcade solutions spinner to make a pop-out 360 steering wheel on the same panel. Again, hoping for hot swappable.

This may be of interest to someone; I haven't seen this idea floating around (though it may be). I'm going to get some bearings (Maybe just plastic bushings) sized so a 1/2" shaft steering wheel can drop (next to the analogue wheel) in the CP so that a rubber wheel on the shaft rubs against the spinner top so that it friction drives the spinner. The spinner will go the wrong way, but I understand that's easily addressed in software. I'm also going to try and mount contacts on the analogue pedals for games that require digital pedal inputs. One driving panel, both types of driving games... if it works, LOL!

The other idea was one steering wheel with a gear drive at the end, and a sliding mechanism that would engage either the 270 control (Hacked from the analogue wheel) or the spinner (ezarcadesoloutions) so with a throw of the lever you change from one to the other. The first method is simpler, the second would be more fiddly (But cooler) Which one I try has a lot to do with actually getting my mitts on the analogue wheel and peeking inside.

Has anyone seen a wheel done either of those ways? If so, how'd it work out?

Ohh, and as to things I may be able to add to the community, I do a lot of prop and costume making, so I have experience with moldmaking and resin casting, and I have my own vacuum forming machine which could maybe be turned to making bezels or if there are 3D plastic displays or sideart or something?

Anyway, that's about it. Back to spending too much money......

[javeryh]

Welcome! 

In my experience (which isn't much at all), the original game designers went with certain controls for a reason so I'd try to stick to that when planning your build.  A trackball can be used for a spinner but to me it just isn't the same.  Same thing with using a spinner as a steering wheel.  YMMV though - there is no "right" answer.

When I first started building my cab I wish someone would have told me to pick a basic control scheme to play a certain group of games and build it well.  Any controls left off now will make for a great second cabinet.

Good luck!

[Tiger-Heli]

Kindof an over-simplification, but your biggest problem with incorrect controls will be digital interfaces for analog controls.

In other words -

Trackball for Yoke - Not good.
Analog joystick or 270-degree wheel for Yoke - Different but acceptable.
Yoke for 270-degree wheel - Not too bad.

Hope this helps.

[NightGod]

Ohh, and as to things I may be able to add to the community, I do a lot of prop and costume making, so I have experience with moldmaking and resin casting, and I have my own vacuum forming machine which could maybe be turned to making bezels or if there are 3D plastic displays or sideart or something?

Tron Joysticks.

That's all I have to say.

[Boz]

Welcome TroyO.

You will get lots of advice from lots of people. When posting your questions and getting your answers, keep in mind that there's always more than one way to skin a cat. Pick the suggestion that sounds the easiest for you to implement.

As far as controls go, it's a completely subjective call. Javeryh is 100% right on the money though. The goal for most Mamers is to build a control panel for the games you will play the most. Some people played a lot of drivers in their youth, some played fighting games and nothing else. The point is that you have to choose the games YOU PLAYED the most and then design your CP in such a way that the controls are layed out well for ***MOST*** of them. Before starting on my own cabinet, I fired up Mame32 and identified a good group of games that I remember playing with some regularity. That list was about 250 in count. From that, I thought long and hard about the games that would get the most play time. That cut the list down to 50 or so. Once I had the list, I reviewed the control panel layouts and began cementing my control panel layout. That sure helped me with controller selection.

I haven't finished my own cab yet, but here's a couple of things that I've learned that you may benefit from:

o   A well-thought-out cabinet does NOT equal a well-planned cabinet. Put as many of the details as possible DOWN ON PAPER as you can. It will save time and headaches when faced with inevitable choices you WILL encounter as you go.
o   Build a full-sized cardboard mockup. I built one and ended up make some pretty major measurement changes prior to cutting my first piece of wood. Had I moved forward with just the dimensions in my head or on paper, I would have been very disappointed with the outcome on expensive wood.
o   Don't bite off more than you can chew. I found this to be pretty important. Dream big, but don't over-estimate your own personal motivation for completing the project. Unless you are Tony Robbins, recognize that you will have days where you don't want to do anything with the cabinet due to frustration.
o   Finally. Don't put a time-frame on your finished work. Many guys here have cabinets that are in "perpetual" states of work. Many rip their first cab apart and build something entirely different. A time-frame may only frustrate you if the inevitable delay pops into your life. Set a goal of making progress each day you work on it. Even on days where nothing seems to go right, you still make progress.

For what it's worth.

Now... go read the F***ING FAQ.   

[rlemmon]

If i were you i would ditch the x arcade parts if i could. The are not as accurate as other controls. Ultimarc makes great sicks and you can never go wrong with happ buttons.

[NickG]

Yeah, what Tiger-Heli said.

  I play a few of games with the wrong controls - good thing about BYOACing.
 
  I like the pop-out steering wheel idea;  I have been planning to (ab)use my spinner for other types of games, too.  I am going to try to build a steering wheel assembly that clamps down on my CP and connect it to my spinner knob with a belt drive, or an alternative steering wheel sized knob.  BTW, the axis can be reversed on some spinners by setting up a DPDT on the signal lines.

[Tilzs]

If you aren't crazy about games with certain controls then I wouldn't worry too much about playing them on controls different from the original. There are so many games that you probably won't play them much anyhow. You are going to be better off concentrating on controls for the games you like since it'll make your cab simplier, cleaner and cheaper

[TroyO]

Tron Joysticks.

That's all I have to say.

Looking at it, it wouldn't be too hard to replicate except for the translucent color. That could be done, but I don't have a good high vacuum pump (yet) to get out the bubbles. (Tinting clear resin isn't too hard, although some would always think it too light or too dark probably. It's the bubbles that'll kill ya.) My casting skills would only be able to do the plastic parts, the rest would be up to the buyer. If there was a need for a opaque one with the same form that just fit a 1/2" shaft it would be a fairly easy project.. assuming I could get my hands on an original.

If i were you i would ditch the x arcade parts if i could. The are not as accurate as other controls. Ultimarc makes great sicks and you can never go wrong with happ buttons.

Yeah, I know some don't like the X-arcade controls but the big issue is the "feel" of them, not durability as far as I can tell. I don't have a huge history to overcome, so any control will feel weird until I get used to it. It gives me a starting place anyway.

On to the 270/360 wheel concept... I think I have this one licked. I was at the hardware store and picked up some parts but the idea is to have  a solidly mounted steering wheel with a permenant rotary encoder (probably a mouse hack) and a combo limiter/centering spring/pot that engages with a lever.

It shouldn't hurt to keep the rotary encoder engaged while playing games that don't use that control, right? That's about the only thing I can think of that would put a hitch in it.

FWIW the idea is to use only readily available hardware parts and a common analogue wheel to pull it off. In this case it's a Logitech GP racing wheel (Not the force model) but the concept should apply to any wheel. I'll post more as the stuff comes in and I can better figure out if I can really do it.

[Tiger-Heli]

Tron Joysticks.

That's all I have to say.

Looking at it, it wouldn't be too hard to replicate except for the translucent color. That could be done, but I don't have a good high vacuum pump (yet) to get out the bubbles. (Tinting clear resin isn't too hard, although some would always think it too light or too dark probably. It's the bubbles that'll kill ya.) My casting skills would only be able to do the plastic parts, the rest would be up to the buyer. If there was a need for a opaque one with the same form that just fit a 1/2" shaft it would be a fairly easy project.. assuming I could get my hands on an original.

Your newness is leading you down the wrong path here.

Nightgod isn't referring to the appearance of the joystick - (BTW, FozzyTheBear is already working on making exact replica handles).

The Tron joystick was a 4-way leaf joystick (with the typical diamond shaped restrictor to keep you from hitting diagonals), but it used an oversized actuator that made it possible to hit the diagonals if you really tried.  The stick needs to be a 4-way stick for the light cycles and tanks stages, but an 8-way for the light tunnel and ants stages.

Pretty tough to pull off with any other stick, although the GGG 49-way does a pretty good job of it, from what I've read.

Yeah, I know some don't like the X-arcade controls but the big issue is the "feel" of them, not durability as far as I can tell. I don't have a huge history to overcome, so any control will feel weird until I get used to it. It gives me a starting place anyway.

Again, you don't know how much you don't know.  Trust me on this.  I played MAME for years with a PC flightstick and thought it was just fine UNTIL I got some real arcade controls.

It shouldn't hurt to keep the rotary encoder engaged while playing games that don't use that control, right? That's about the only thing I can think of that would put a hitch in it.

Not in MAME - AFAIK.  Might be a problem in other games as they might see two wheels connected.

Sounds like a cool concept, keep us posted - BTW, Xiou2 (sp?) had some similar concepts if you want to search the archives.

[TroyO]

Thanks for the info (All of you who posted).

Tiger, on the Tron stick, yeah I was kinda thinking he meant the whole stick not just the shell.

I found Xiaou2's posts, and that's what started me thinking about more specific implimentation of it... mine is similar in concept, some aspects moved around because I want it to be bullet proof (I only want to make it once ;-) and using common stuff that anyone can find. I probably have more tools than most, but I will keep the idea in mind that others should be able to do it with more basic equipment.

I'll keep in mind the advice about the X-Arcade stuff.. worst case I can use the interface and panel and just swap out sticks and buttons if I find it a bother.

[Tiger-Heli]

I'll keep in mind the advice about the X-Arcade stuff.. worst case I can use the interface and panel and just swap out sticks and buttons if I find it a bother.

Well, the panel should be okay at least.

I don't mean for every post to be a "I couldn't believe how much better this was . . . " thing, but my keyboard encoder significantly outperfoms my standard keyboard, and I've heard of some issues of conflicts with simultaneous keypresses with the X-Arcade encoder.

FWIW.