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Author Topic: Gauntlet Dark Legacy running slow and laggy?!?!  (Read 9716 times)

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rdowdy95

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Gauntlet Dark Legacy running slow and laggy?!?!
« on: August 09, 2006, 10:58:32 pm »
I recently got my hands on the CHD file for Gaunlet Dark Legacy.  It is called gauntdl.chd.  Man I run the game, and it studders and is laggy so much the sound even echos.  I run a video card of Radeon x800XT and I also have an AMD 64 3200+ chip with 1 GB of RAM.  Anyway to get this game to speed up.  I am using Mame .106

hutch1980

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Re: Gauntlet Dark Legacy running slow and laggy?!?!
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2006, 11:07:53 pm »
Your system is way too slow. The MAME dev has recommended atleast a 10Ghz cpu to run the game at full speed. The whole point is to emulate the game accuratly for documentation, and this has been done for the gauntlet legend games. So there will probably not be any more work done on the driver as it's considered done.

rdowdy95

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Re: Gauntlet Dark Legacy running slow and laggy?!?!
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2006, 11:28:59 pm »
So man does anyone have a computer that fast?  I am putting an AMD 64 3500+ in my new mame cabniet I am building, with 2 GB of Ram I guess that will be too slow too then.  Why is that?  Anyone have a 10 GHZ yet.  And where did you find that it had to have 10 GHZ to run full speed?

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Re: Gauntlet Dark Legacy running slow and laggy?!?!
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2006, 11:30:48 pm »
The newer gauntlet games give all the emulators fits, regardless of system. The 10 ghz number is just an estimation.

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Re: Gauntlet Dark Legacy running slow and laggy?!?!
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2006, 11:40:59 pm »
What they're saying is you're out of luck, you and everybody else, at least for a few years.  Same for lots of the other .chd games.

ahofle

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Re: Gauntlet Dark Legacy running slow and laggy?!?!
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2006, 12:17:35 am »
Plus aren't they starting to hit the ceiling on the clock speed improvements (meaning it's unlikely we'll see a 10 ghtz processor anyway, at least not with current technology)?  Seems like most of the newer innovations are wider data paths or multiple cores, both of which are pretty much useless to MAME.

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Re: Gauntlet Dark Legacy running slow and laggy?!?!
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2006, 12:31:16 am »
They've been at the ceiling for some time now. There have been technologies developed around quantum ideas and fiber optics rather than copper, but they've yet to be implemented.

We will reach a 10ghz limit, it's just with a different switching technology. They can't keep the current copper based technology cool enough.

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Re: Gauntlet Dark Legacy running slow and laggy?!?!
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2006, 01:39:21 am »
THIS looks promising or something else will come along. We have been at or near these "ceilings" since the beginning of home computing.
97.4 percent of all statistics are full of crap.

NightGod

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Re: Gauntlet Dark Legacy running slow and laggy?!?!
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2006, 02:03:37 am »
AMD (and I would imagine Intel) is working on a technology that will allow multiple cores to run in parallel for a single task-basically the processor version of SLI. Once they get that nailed down (last thing I read said like 2Q07), a virtual 10Ghz won't be far behind.
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Re: Gauntlet Dark Legacy running slow and laggy?!?!
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2006, 05:02:17 pm »
I remember them talking about figuring out how to "stack" things vertically instead of just horizontally, so they're able to cram more crap in these things as well.  That was a recent development.
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Re: Gauntlet Dark Legacy running slow and laggy?!?!
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2006, 07:59:37 pm »
Hz is not the best way to state the computing speed of a CPU.  Look at any Core 2 Duo vs AMD Dual Core vs P4 dual core comparison, and you'll see the CPU with the highest GHz speed (P4) is the slowest in most tests, and never the fastest.

That "10 GHz" number is relative to the P4 "performance per Hz" speeds.  You might be able to do the equivalent on a 6 GHz Core 2 Solo, which looks like it will be possible in the "near future" with the Core 2 Duo reviews and overclock results being posted out there.

(Of course, the 10 GHz number is just an estimate, and the bench marks used are not mame, and maybe the current overclocking is the max the chip will ever go, so I may be wrong.)
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Re: Gauntlet Dark Legacy running slow and laggy?!?!
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2006, 10:57:52 pm »
I recently got my hands on the CHD file for Gaunlet Dark Legacy.  It is called gauntdl.chd.  Man I run the game, and it studders and is laggy so much the sound even echos.  I run a video card of Radeon x800XT and I also have an AMD 64 3200+ chip with 1 GB of RAM.  Anyway to get this game to speed up.  I am using Mame .106

Even using an optimized MAME build and the fastest CPU, video card, and hard drive you can get your hands on plus 2GB of memory, you'll be lucky to get 20 frames per second.  It's simply not playable on any hardware that currently exists.
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Re: Gauntlet Dark Legacy running slow and laggy?!?!
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2006, 06:11:09 am »
I work for Intel, in a chip manufacturing facility and I can tell you that there is no way using current technologies that we (or anyone else) can make a 10 GHz chip -- as others have posted, the use of multiple CPUs on one chip (the new Core Duo and Core Duo 2/Extreme) are going to be the only way to get to that number. However, it will be quite some time before a computer can get there.  :cry:

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Re: Gauntlet Dark Legacy running slow and laggy?!?!
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2006, 08:51:23 am »
I work for Intel, in a chip manufacturing facility and I can tell you that there is no way using current technologies that we (or anyone else) can make a 10 GHz chip -- as others have posted, the use of multiple CPUs on one chip (the new Core Duo and Core Duo 2/Extreme) are going to be the only way to get to that number. However, it will be quite some time before a computer can get there.  :cry:

I don't believe that multiple CPUs/cores are going to solve the problem since many tasks are just not adaptable to parallelization.

The key, as AMD proved and Intel finally realized, is to do more work per clock cycle using as little power as possible.  Extreme overclockers have proved that 5-6GHz CPUs are possible as long as you get rid of the heat.  With improvements in process technology, I'm sure we'll see power consumption go down enough for 6GHz on air to eventually be a reality.  Combine that with an efficient core that does more work in less cycles and we may get there yet.

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brophog

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Re: Gauntlet Dark Legacy running slow and laggy?!?!
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2006, 12:33:02 pm »
Quote
With improvements in process technology, I'm sure we'll see power consumption go down enough for 6GHz on air to eventually be a reality.

I don't really think so. We've been squeezing blood from a turnip for a while now in the current technology and it's amazing what they've been able to squeeze out so far. New switching technologies have been in the works for a while now, it's just a process to get them market ready.

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Re: Gauntlet Dark Legacy running slow and laggy?!?!
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2006, 12:42:40 am »
I don't believe that multiple CPUs/cores are going to solve the problem since many tasks are just not adaptable to parallelization.
You're missing the part where they are combined on a hardware level to appear as one CPU to the processes (much like SLI video cards). Two dual-core 3Ghz procs would be about a 10Ghz proc if they were combined in this manner (since there's always some overhead with a process like this). It won't happen tomorrow, but I see it happening sooner than later.
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Re: Gauntlet Dark Legacy running slow and laggy?!?!
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2006, 01:07:11 am »
lol - it seems I am out of my league when it comes to processor design...truth be told, you guys are probably correct. My function is not to know all the internal workings of processors and how they would accomplish the task(s), but simply to run and maintain the machines that make them.  :notworthy:

I know from much internal stuff being passed around that things will be changing - exactly when, and when these new things will be produced in volume, I have no idea. I work in the Lithography area (where the actual circuit layers are imprinted on top of the previous layers) and there is definitely some exciting and interesting new ways to produce smaller, faster, cooler chips in the near and not-so-near future.

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Re: Gauntlet Dark Legacy running slow and laggy?!?!
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2006, 01:28:03 am »
Quote
With improvements in process technology, I'm sure we'll see power consumption go down enough for 6GHz on air to eventually be a reality.

I don't really think so. We've been squeezing blood from a turnip for a while now in the current technology and it's amazing what they've been able to squeeze out so far. New switching technologies have been in the works for a while now, it's just a process to get them market ready.
I hear that every five years or so, and yet someone always manages to find a way to keep Moore's law rolling. If you went back to 1995 and told them we'd be using 90nm processes to make CPUs in the early 2000s, there are some who would have laughed you out of the room.

I've learned not to doubt what billions of dollars and tens of thousands of research manhours can accomplish.
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Re: Gauntlet Dark Legacy running slow and laggy?!?!
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2006, 02:53:48 am »
I hear that every five years or so, and yet someone always manages to find a way to keep Moore's law rolling.
Moore's law has nothing to do with clockspeed.  It states that transistor density will double every 18-24 months.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_Law

Transistor density has nothing to do with clockspeed.

And at any rate, there's been a theoretical practical limit of clockspeeds being 5GHz for some time now (well over a decade).  Anything faster than that becomes impractical due to electron loss on any semiconductor (eg: silicon) or conductor (copper, aluminium, or whatever else).

Fibre-optic switching faster than 5GHz would be the only sensible alternative, but you won't be seeing any processors based on that technology for some time, nor will they be anything like what we use today.

On the topic at hand: MAME is not very well optimised at all.  And that's fine - it's not intended to be.  MAME is designed entirely for accuracy and documentation.  Playing games through it is merely a "pleasant side effect" according to the developers and designers.

If you want to play more recent games, you'll have to look at other options.  Either different emulators (Kawaks, ZiNc, etc are all faster than MAME at the expense of some accuracy).  Or alternatively look for a console port.  Unlike the old days, console ports of modern arcade games are not bad at all.  Gauntlet Dark Legacy has been ported to XBox, PS2 and GameCube.  Consider putting any of those inside an arcade cabinet and playing the game that way instead.  Plus that way, the developers actually get rewarded for their hard work, rather than you playing the unlicensed copyright games for free. 

http://www.mameworld.net/maws/romset/gauntdl
Scroll down to "Additional Information" and look for the part that says "- PORTS -".  Do the same for any other MAME game, and consider buying a console port whenever possible.

Might I remind everyone here that the only reason we have these games to emulate is because the people making them can afford to do so.  Please consider buying games as frequently as possible, even if they are on offer via emulation.

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Re: Gauntlet Dark Legacy running slow and laggy?!?!
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2006, 03:12:14 am »
[I've learned not to doubt what billions of dollars and tens of thousands of research manhours can accomplish.

You mean, like working on alternative switching technologies, like many of us have said.  ;)

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Re: Gauntlet Dark Legacy running slow and laggy?!?!
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2006, 04:23:01 am »
I know you guys all talk about many chd games not being playable under mame or even a modified version of the emulator becuase they try to reproduce the game exactly...   Is there another emu that makes compromises that will allow some of these games to get to a decent frame rate with a nice computer?

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Re: Gauntlet Dark Legacy running slow and laggy?!?!
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2006, 07:03:14 pm »
I know you guys all talk about many chd games not being playable under mame or even a modified version of the emulator becuase they try to reproduce the game exactly...   Is there another emu that makes compromises that will allow some of these games to get to a decent frame rate with a nice computer?
Look three posts up.

ZiNc for Sony ZN games, Kawaks for Neo/CPS2 games, or console ports for the rest.

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Re: Gauntlet Dark Legacy running slow and laggy?!?!
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2006, 10:02:28 pm »


i think that soon we will see a massive jump in processor power within the next 2 years.

i really do think cell technology is more then just talk and hype and it will make todays processor power look like a 486 computer. i think it will come faster then anyone could ever expect and rain down on existing technology as we know it like a storm.