Button Layout Thoughts

[webgeek]

Hi all, I was just seeking opinions on a button layout I've been trying:

It FEELS comfortable but without banging on it for hours, I can't be sure. It's also causing hell with my wiring (see my project anouncement thread for details). So I just wanted to know if others have had luck with something like this. Any thoughts or opinions either way? Thanks!

Edit: This is for the right hand, each of the lower buttons align with your fingers.

[leapinlew]

Is this for your left or right hand? I'd really like to see the joystick in relation to this. The odd button seems like it would be for your thumb, but the way I'm seeing the picture it looks like your pinky would have to hit it.

I personally prefer the street fighter layout. Maybe not ergo friendly, but it's familiar and it works.

[ahofle]

I'll bet you use one of those microsoft 'ergonomic' keyboards. 

Assuming the joystick is on the left in this image, I think the left most buttons should maybe come up a bit.  I assume you are trying to mimic the differing lengths of your fingers for each button, but the difference between index and middle finger isn't that big.  Unless you are assuming the left most buttons will always be used by the thumb?  Anyway, that's just from looking at the image.  If you've tried it out and it feels comfortable, that would be all that mattered to me if it were my layout.

[webgeek]

Is this for your left or right hand? I'd really like to see the joystick in relation to this.

This is for the right hand. There isn't a joystick mounted yet so i don't have it in the shot.

I'll bet you use one of those microsoft 'ergonomic' keyboards.

Actually, I don't use an ergonomic keyboard. I don't type well enough for it
I originally tried straight 4 buttons across the bottom but felt that the buttons were uncomfortably far apart to align my fingers properly. It's hard to explain but I found that it wasn't as easy to hit a given button as I expected.

Assuming the joystick is on the left in this image, I think the left most buttons should maybe come up a bit.

And that was my first though as well but it seemed like the horizontal spacing between my index and bird finger became a little uncomfortable. I can't tell why this bugs me now but I never noticed it when I played in arcades as a kid

[shardian]

Personally, I don't see a need for a 7 button layout. For neogeo, I use my thumb on the bottom left button in a street fighter layout for the fourth button. The majority of neogeo games don't even use all 4 buttons.

Also, for me, my pinkie works better as a button pusher if I fully extend it - which would pull the 4th button in your bottom row up a bit.

To each his own though...

[pointdablame]

IMO, the pinky is not meant for gaming.   I much prefer the 4 button layout with the 4th buttong being pressed by the thumb.

I prefer the arched setups to straight setups as well, and like the feel of them myself, but I'd never set it up so that my pinky was being used.

my .02

[DaveMMR]

I also asked in my "control layout opinion" thread about the benefits of the odd button being down and to the left of a standard 6 button arrangement.  Now I finally found out - "for the thumb".  Makes sense - I'll test that out.

Personally, I'm not a fan of ergonomic buttons - only because most of the time, I'm not using all six buttons and, therefore, don't really need to have them all resting under my fingers.   I don't know - it seems more natural to me (arcade-wise) to have the buttons straight in a row, for it seems easier to find them without looking and without having to position my hand before the game starts, especially for those "odd-amount/layout" games (e.g. Mortal Kombat and the center block button).  That's just my theory, though.  I can't test it out because I'm a stickler for the straight arrangement.  YMMV

[webgeek]

Thanks for all the great input everyone! For my next tweak, I'll move the index finger buttons up 1/4 inch. That puts them 1/2 inch below the bird finger buttons. I'll also try making the pinky button a thumb button. I like the idea of using the top 3 buttons and the bottom left button for neogeo games. Are there any games that require 7 buttons? Thanks again for all the help. I should have a new mock-up in the next day or two.

[pointdablame]

Very few, if any, games need 7 actual buttons.  The only ones that do are probably quiz games or mahjong games.

The "need" for the 7 button layout is so you can physically emulate the neogeo layout and the Street Fighter layout.  You won't be using all 7 buttons at the same time.  In fact, most folks wire up the 7button layout with 2 buttons as the same input, so its as though there are only 6 buttons.

[leapinlew]

Mortal Kombat 3 used 6 buttons, but one button is setup for thumb use.

[shardian]

Mortal Kombat 3 used 6 buttons, but one button is setup for thumb use.

I couldn't stand that setup...

[KillerArcades]

I'll just be a voice of dissent and say that after hours of testing over a dozen different setups until I had my buttons setup "exactly" how I wanted...... and now a few months worth of play on my finished cabinet - I now wish I had done them just a little differently.

I went for the same arc'd setup as you are doing (but I went without the 7th button) - and I felt they were perfectly ergonomical.

The problem arose when I found out that when I have my hand at rest on the control panel , my fingers are in one position. But, when I'm actually playing street fighter and my other favorite multiple button games, my hand and fingers assume a slightly different position as I get into the game. I actually found that my preferred setup would be to have the buttons in a more straight line, and not an "ergo arc", like I originally thought.

anyways, just some food for thought. How you do things when you're actually playing a game might be surprisingly different than how you think you do things.....

[ahofle]

Very few, if any, games need 7 actual buttons.  The only ones that do are probably quiz games or mahjong games.

The "need" for the 7 button layout is so you can physically emulate the neogeo layout and the Street Fighter layout.  You won't be using all 7 buttons at the same time.  In fact, most folks wire up the 7button layout with 2 buttons as the same input, so its as though there are only 6 buttons.

I should point out that this is true, but only for arcade games.  If you plan on using your cabinet for other emulation (ie. consoles like SNES and Sega Genesis) then having 8 buttons is quite convenient (6 buttons + start and select).  If you are not planning on anything but arcade emulation, then I'd go with fewer buttons though.

[javeryh]

Very few, if any, games need 7 actual buttons.  The only ones that do are probably quiz games or mahjong games.

The "need" for the 7 button layout is so you can physically emulate the neogeo layout and the Street Fighter layout.  You won't be using all 7 buttons at the same time.  In fact, most folks wire up the 7button layout with 2 buttons as the same input, so its as though there are only 6 buttons.

I should point out that this is true, but only for arcade games.  If you plan on using your cabinet for other emulation (ie. consoles like SNES and Sega Genesis) then having 8 buttons is quite convenient (6 buttons + start and select).  If you are not planning on anything but arcade emulation, then I'd go with fewer buttons though.

I would go with 6 - even with SNES emulation can't you just make 2 of the admin buttons select and start?  I can't recall a single game where you had to hit them in the middle of playing to do something important.

[DaveMMR]

"Start" could be the Start button for SNES games.  All panels should have those anyhow. 

[ahofle]

I would go with 6 - even with SNES emulation can't you just make 2 of the admin buttons select and start?  I can't recall a single game where you had to hit them in the middle of playing to do something important.

I can't recall any names off the top of my head either, but I'm certain I've played 2 player games where both pads needed the buttons.  Why else would they be on both pads?

I should also mention that I also used the 8th button in an unorthodox configuration because being able to play 2 player coop 'Toobin' was mandatory for my cabinet.

[DaveMMR]

I should also mention that I also used the 8th button in an unorthodox configuration because being able to play 2 player coop 'Toobin' was mandatory for my cabinet.

I understand.  I have an unorthodox trackball panel in the works strictly for Marble Madness.   

Basically, my opinion is that straight buttons are better (to me) since I can "find" them easier without looking if and when my hands leaves the button area.   I've never really had any ergonomic issues playing a game, so the slight comfort improvement isn't enough for me to start curving things.

And I have to add that I also hate the "run" button position in MK3/UMK3 since you have to physically remove your hand from the main buttons (or stretch like your hand all crazy like) to get a run going, then quickly get back there to perform whatever combo/fatality/babality/mercy/animality/brutality you need to do under a strict time limit.   Then again, I was never able to hit buttons with my thumb in any comfortable way.