Going w/ swappable metal CP's -- Have a couple of questions

[Ninten-doh]

Given the small size of my cabinet (a former Frogger cab), I've decided against cutting it up and adding some large Frankenpanel.  Instead, I'm going to use 2-3 Frogger-style metal CP's and swap them in and out.  Now that I've decided on the swappable metal CP idea, I have a couple of questions before I proceed:

1) I'm going to be using a PC with the case still on.  How do I go about grounding the CP?  Can I run it into one of the screws on the back of the PC?  Can I run it directly to an outlet and screw it in like those 2-plug to 3-plug converters?  I'm assuming I can buy a ground wire that has rings on either end for this purpose?
Oh, and I'll have 2 pushbuttons drilled into the coin door for coin1 and coin2.  The coin door doesn't need to be grounded, does it?

2) Any ideas on the best way to attach the CP's to make them easily swappable?  You can see in the pic that normally it would be held in place by 3 carriage bolts across the top.  I was thinking about velcro, but I doubt that would hold during rough play.

I know I've asked a lot of questions, but I could really use the help!  I know that however I ground it, I'll have to make sure it's reground after each "swap".  Each panel will have it's own ipac mounted on a wood block attached to the underside of the panel, so I'll just need to unplug the USB each time. 

Pictures with and without the CP that came with the cab are below.

[NightGod]

I'd use that industrial strength Velcro-it's what I use to hold my laptop on a stand in my truck when I'm driving around, it's REALLY strong stuff.

For the swapping, alot of people seem to use CAT-5 cable and RJ-45 jacks, seems to work well.

[hnugz]

i dont think you need to worry about grounding your pc.  it should be grounded through the power supply?

[shardian]

I believe he was wanting to ground the control panel itsself. I don't believe this is necessary, but if it helps you sleep at night, run a wire from a screw on the control panel to a screw on the back of the computer case. The computer case is grounded thru the power cord. Since you are swapping the panels, you would want to designate a wire in your wiring harness of choice to be a ground wire. That way you can hook whichever cp to the ground that you want.

I am doing a vertical Taito cabinet. So far I am definitely using 2 panels, but I may add a third.

[Ninten-doh]

I believe he was wanting to ground the control panel itsself.

Yes, that's what I was referring to.

Since you are swapping the panels, you would want to designate a wire in your wiring harness of choice to be a ground wire. That way you can hook whichever cp to the ground that you want.

Sorry, I'm not following what you mean here.  Wiring harness of choice?  Each panel will have it's own ipac.  I just plan on disconnecting/connecting the USB cable.

[gamecreature]

How about using CP latches? Not only will they hold the CP in place, but you can run your ground wire to one of them and then connect the other end to your earth ground.

[shardian]

I believe he was wanting to ground the control panel itsself.

Yes, that's what I was referring to.

Since you are swapping the panels, you would want to designate a wire in your wiring harness of choice to be a ground wire. That way you can hook whichever cp to the ground that you want.

Sorry, I'm not following what you mean here.  Wiring harness of choice?  Each panel will have it's own ipac.  I just plan on disconnecting/connecting the USB cable.

That, my friend is a MAJOR waste of money. One set of interfaces (IPAC/Optipac/mouse hack) can handle all of your controls. What you do is go to a computer shop and take a few parallel ports and their respective cables off their hands. You wire the parallel port to barrier strips, and then to the ipac, or other interface. Next, you hack off the peripheral end (the end that doesn't hook into the parallel port) of the parallel cables, and wire a cable to each control panel. This way, you can just plug in each control panel as you need them.

Another tip for mounting the control panels is to get some panel clamps. Isaw you said you were mounting some coin buttons to the coin door, so you do have access thru the front of the cabinet. Once you install the panel clamps, you can reach up thru the coin door to latch/unlatch the control panels. Odds are that the three screw holes on your metal panel were actually to attach the cp to a wooden bracket of sorts that the clamp catches were mounted to. I can take some pictures of how my control panel attaches to my cabinet if it will help you.

And for the love of all that is holy, DO NOT BUY SEPARATE IPAC'S for EACH CP!!!!!!!!!

[Ninten-doh]

GC and Sharidian, I like the panel clamp idea, but wouldn't i need to weld them on to a metal CP?

As for the ipacs, ummm, well, hypothetically speaking, what if someone impulsively and without regard to family budget bought three ipac VE's already?    

Thing is, I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible, and once terms like "hack" get involved, I tend to get a little dizzy.

[shardian]

hehehe... well if some unknowing person in your family bought them...then it is ok. You are officially addicted now anyways and will come up with uses for them. First off, you can make a desktop control panel. I have an ipac in a 1 player desktop unit that is fugly, but works very well and still tends to impress everyone. Sometimes, the ghetto look makes it look harder than it really is, thus tends to show yourself as smarter than you really are. You know, like when you walk into an electronics lab and there are wires everywhere and no organization whatsoever - your first thought is 'dang! There are some really smart people in here who know what all this crap does.'

Back to the clamps. On my taito cabinet, the control panel bolted onto two pieces of wood. The panel clamp catches are then screwed to the wood, and the main part of the clamp is screwed to the inside of the cabinet. Once I get my spare CP, I will cut out a new set of wood pieces that match the existing ones, and attach a new set of panel catches to it too.

Well, when it comes to wiring you are going to have a mess either way. You have to custom cut every piece of wire, and crimp on every single quick disconnect. It is very tedious and frustrating work if you don't do wiring on a regular basis. Using the parallel ports and their cables can actually make your life easier. The only somewhat hard part will be keeping track of which wire goes to what pin on the parallel port.

I haven't personally hacked a parallel cable yet, but here is the plan. If there is a color code to the wires inside the cable, then we are both home free. If they all happen to be the same color, then no problem. You get your trusty multimeter and continuity test each pin to a wire until you find a match. Then you can slap a masking tape label on that wire.

Since we are working on generally the same project, I would be happy to keep in touch thru the process.

[Ninten-doh]

Thanks for the info Shardian.  If it's not too much trouble, I'd love to see pics of how your clamps are set up..

[shardian]

I'll take some pictures tonight.

[gamecreature]

I have an old Streetfighter CP where the clamp brackets are bolted onto the CP, just like the Joystick. I assume the locking portions are just screwed into the wood inside the cabinet.

[Ninten-doh]

GC, it's the "bolting onto the CP" part I'm concerned about.  Getting those aligned exactly the same on three metal CP's is my primary concern.

[shardian]

Your cabinet does have a back door right? I can pretty much crouch all the way inside mine when it is empty, and the glass is off. You should be able to set the cp on the cabinet, and get inside the cab to line up the catches on the cp with the clamps for each panel.
This is much easier than going at it with the ruler.

[Ninten-doh]

Take a look at the pic at the beginning of the thread that shows the CP cavity w/o the panel.  Where is the ideal place to put the clamps?  I'm assuming along the sides where there are currently wood blocks to rest the CP on?  I guess I would have to cut those off.

[NightGod]

I'd still wire all three panels to parallel/RJ-45 type connections and save the extra two Ipacs for some later date.

[Animeka]

I have pretty much the same setup as you, my panel is metal and has about the same shape as yours.

I didn't add any clamps, the shape of the panel holds it in place (see pix - i just took them for you ) There's a lip at the bottom of the panel that rests against the front of the cab, and the angled part leans against the plexi in front of the monitor and the plexi support bar.

As for 1 i-pac per panel, I went with the parallel cable solution, and I've been wondering if I should have gone with 1 i-pac per panel. More expensive but "cleaner" solution (less wiring).

I took a m/f serial cable, cut in half. Hooked up one of the section of cable to the ipac, and the other to the panel thru wiring strips. I simply connect them together and all works A1. No  ground of the panel is necessary, as far as i'm concerned...

I'm working on my 2nd panel (4way/spinner/trackball) right now... It's on bare metal for now, I'm wondering how to cover it actually. I went with vinyl for the panel you see now, but I can't do that on the other panel because of the trackball...

Take a look at these, and ask away. If you need more pix, different angles let me know...

[Ninten-doh]

Animeka,
Thanks so much for the pics!  Looks very similar to my control panel, and from what you described, my panel works the same way.  It kinda "fits" into the front part of the cab, the sides are a tight fit and rest on wooden sides, and the back/angled part of the cp rests on the plexi/plexi wood block. 

So you're saying it never moves, even during some hectic gameplay? 

Also, are you grounding the metal CP at all?

BTW, my second panel is going to be identical to yours!  I'm not sure I understand why vinyl would be a problem though.  Are you concerned about it pealing up around the trackball hole?  Also, how are you planning to mount the spinner?  I was wondering about epoxying a wooden block underneath to mount it into so that no screws would show.

[Animeka]

Thanks so much for the pics!  Looks very similar to my control panel, and from what you described, my panel works the same way.  It kinda "fits" into the front part of the cab, the sides are a tight fit and rest on wooden sides, and the back/angled part of the cp rests on the plexi/plexi wood block. 

So you're saying it never moves, even during some hectic gameplay? 

Also, are you grounding the metal CP at all?

BTW, my second panel is going to be identical to yours!  I'm not sure I understand why vinyl would be a problem though.  Are you concerned about it pealing up around the trackball hole?  Also, how are you planning to mount the spinner?  I was wondering about epoxying a wooden block underneath to mount it into so that no screws would show.

From looking at the first picture, your cab is identical to mine. I removed the side wooden pieces (they serve no real purpose). I have no problem whatsoever with the panel moving. Panel is not grounded, (original wasnt either), there's no power on it so why bother?

The vinyl I have is "padded" i.e. has a felt-like backing so it would peel off around the trackball and would look silly... I want something like what you have on your old panel, a "plastic-like" material that would cover everything with very little thickness to it. The spinner is mounted like the joysticks, I dont mind seeing screwheads on the cabinet. Like on the panel i have in the pictures... Doesnt look that bad...

Marc

[Ninten-doh]

Marc,
You should try the Partsexpress.com black vinyl.  I replaced the old Ring King overlay in the pic above with it and it looks and feels awesome!  Here's an old writeup about the vinyl with some pics...

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=7427.0

If you want, I can take a few pics of mine when I get home from work tonight.

[shardian]

Here is how my cp connects. After looking at your pics, I believe I would go with velcroif only adults will be using it. If destructo kids are around, I still reccommend panel clamps. You could epoxy a section of wood to the cp's that would go inside the wood on the cabinet, and then attach some wood to the inside of the cabinet to bring the panel clamps out flush with the clamp catches on the cp. Tihs would be much more durable than velcro. Remember, this is your investment - protect it in whichever way you fell comfortable.

[Ninten-doh]

Thanks Shardian.  I think I might try some kind of test with the velcro first if it's not too expensive.  I'll try it on something other than the cab in case I don't think it's strong enough.

[shardian]

It will definitely be strong enough. If you haven't got a copy of the project arcade book, then go get one. The CP on the project arcade cabinet is held on by velcro.

[gamecreature]

Marc,
You should try the Partsexpress.com black vinyl.  I replaced the old Ring King overlay in the pic above with it and it looks and feels awesome!  Here's an old writeup about the vinyl with some pics...

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=7427.0

If you want, I can take a few pics of mine when I get home from work tonight.

Or spend a few extra bucks and get a custom overlay printed at mamemarquees.com - I'm very happy with the way mine turned out.

[gamecreature]

I'm concerned about the stability as well. When I play some of my favorite two-stick games, the cabinet rocks!

[Animeka]

I'm concerned about the stability as well. When I play some of my favorite two-stick games, the cabinet rocks!

you guys are rough... We play SF2 fights and the panel has never moved or lifted... 

Marc

[Ninten-doh]

you guys are rough... We play SF2 fights and the panel has never moved or lifted... 

Well have you seen GameCreature's avatar?  That dude looks like he's pretty intense!   

[gamecreature]

you guys are rough... We play SF2 fights and the panel has never moved or lifted... 

Well have you seen GameCreature's avatar?  That dude looks like he's pretty intense!   

No quarter! None asked, none given! Arrrrrr!!!   

[severdhed]

you could also hold the panel in place with magnets.  old computer harddrives are excellent sources of really strong magnets.  you could mount some of these inside the cabinet and they would be more then enough to hold a metal control panel in place.

[Vigo]

you could also hold the panel in place with magnets.  old computer harddrives are excellent sources of really strong magnets.  you could mount some of these inside the cabinet and they would be more then enough to hold a metal control panel in place.

You could do that, but I personally wouldn't unless I was certain of what I was doing. I don't let magnets get anywhere near my PC or my monitor. THey don't mix very well.

I am actually working on a simiar method as you, Ninten-doh, and I am using control panel clamps that I am bolting it in to my cabinet. It should be just fine.

I am reminded of this last christmas however, when finishing a quick mame cab christmas present for my brother, I didn't have time, nor the resources to get the CP clamp to bolt in right so it aligned with the cabinet clamp.  What I ended up doing was taking a CP clamp, (the hook part) and epoxying it to the metal CP. Then, for added strength, I took some of the clay-like epoxy. and added about a quarter inch of it over the part that I epoxied on. There is a very horribly made diagram to show what I did.

THe epoxy job worked fine. I think I used JB weld, Since It was christmas, I didn't have a chance to shop around, so there might be better epoxy out there to use (or not). with a little patience, you can get multiple control panels on with the same cp clamps.

[Vigo]

I'd still wire all three panels to parallel/RJ-45 type connections and save the extra two Ipacs for some later date.

Also, I agree that you should only use one ipac. Find a different use for the other two. The printer cable trick is easy to use, and we can help you out if you get stuck.

Heck, the whole reason that I got into the whole BYOAC thing was because a somebody gave me an extra ipac that they no longer needed. I was doomed to this hobby since.

[NightGod]

Ninten-doh asked me in a PM what velcro I used to attach my laptop above and where to get it and I figured I would post it here in case someone else was interested. Basically I just got Industrial Strength Velcro from Wal-Mart, over in the sewing section. My laptop tray originally came with a nylon strap to hold the laptop in place, but it never felt tight enough and the strap rested over keys or the power switch when it was in place, so I decided to give velcro a shot. I can tell you that I travel about 200 miles every day fixing computers and have used the same pieces of velcro for a year and that laptop has never so much as moved a centimeter in all that time, despite going through an Illinois winter and summer and daily removal/reattachment of the laptop. If anything, it's bonded stronger today than the day I put it on.

Here's a pic of the box, so you have an idea what to look for:

[Ninten-doh]

NightGod, thanks for the heads up on the Velcro.  Now I need to figure out where on the metal CP I would pull when I wanted to take the sucker off.  Maybe I should put a bolt in that middle hole at the top (where there are currently three along the top) and screw some kind of strap onto it (on the bottom).  I could keep it tucked between the plexi and the cp, and then use it when I need to.  Any better suggestion?

BTW, thanks for all the feedback everyone!

[Animeka]

After playing on a friend's cabinet, I'm cancelling my swappable panel idea for my cab... a larger CP is more fun. Having all the controllers on a single panel is a lot better than having to swap... Back to the drawing board...

Marc