Anyone use LCD's in their cabinets?

[AE35]

Hi all!

I'm just asking to hear how many there might be. Personally I'm a CRT-only guy,
since I work with CRT projectors etc., and can't stand the bad CR and fake look
from video displayed on a flat-anything.

I just thought that somebody might be tempted to put in a LCD and get a
not-so-heavy cabinet. It even sounds tempting to me, but not if the graphics
have to suffer much.

Or would the rescaling be too much for you guys?

Thanks,

Nicholas

[Havok]

I have a 20.1" LCD in my cab - and I love it. I personally am not a big fan of CRT's - haven't used one for over 4 years now for anything. Since I also run regular computer games, I really enjoy putting them at 1600x1200: try that with an arcade crt!

I also like the fact that when I switch resolutions or turn the monitor on, there is no twang! sound, plus the weight\energy\emissions benefits.

Besides - you are starting to see all the newer stuff come out with lcd displays, and Happ is even now manufacturing retrofit lcd panels to replace their older crts. Eventually raster crt monitors will go the way of xy monitors, it's only a matter of time.

[AE35]

Of course I meant as opposed to PC CRT monitors, not the original arcade monitors.

So, what are resolution are you running, and what is the CR on such a screen?
Can't imagine it being very high. But maybe that's not important with games...

Could one use an older LCD model, with a lower res. if we aren't going to have a
very high resolution anyway?

[patrickl]

I'm using an LCD too (19" 1280X1024). I don't have a cabinet around it just yet though.

I've got mine rotating which is a lot easier with an LCD than a CRT.

I like the look of an LCD much better than of a CRT. I have a few 19" CRT's laying around too, but I hate the bulging glass, the flicker, the static electricity, the glare, the weight, the bulk, the weird effects when switching res, the degaussing, the energy consumption and probably lots more of CRT's. Guess the only benefit for CRT I see is the better contrast.

I experimented with the scaling options on Mame which work on LCD. Not sure if I will use those in the end, but some look nice.

[Havok]

I use 1280x1024 for Mame and my Front End - everything works great. Mame scales well, images don't look stretched and I have yet to have any display oddities with horizontal or vertical games.

[severdhed]

i have a 19" lcd in my cabinet as well (1280x1024).  I absolutly love it.  The picture quality is great.  I have mame/mala set to run everything at 1280x1024 and it looks just fine.  when i first set up my cabinet, i was using a 17" crt monitor, and honestly i think the picture looks better on the lcd, plus it takes up so much less room.  I was a little concerned  about picture quality before i got it, but i decided to take the chance, and it payed off.  I have a dreamcast in my cabinet as well, and even though it runs through the vga adaptor at 640x480, it still looks awesome.  i couldnt be happier with my lcd.

[Ninten-doh]

anyone care to share what model LCD's you're using and how the off-center viewing angles are?  Thanks!

Oh, and is anyone using a front end that automatically goes horizontal or vertical depending on the last game played?  Do any of the FE's do that?  This would reduce the # of times you'd have to rotate the screen.

[Noobert]

I'll be using a 19"  LCD in my cab.  One of the main reasons is that I understand (from searching through old threads) that TV's and arcade monitors don't do too well for vector graphics games (is this true?) which are some of my favorites, so I decided to go with a computer monitor.  Having made that decision, I decided to go with the LCD over the CRT because I was having trouble finding a 24" or larger CRT, and for anything smaller than that I wanted to be able rotate it--so I opted for the LCD.

I don't know the model offhand--it's not an expensive model but the picture looks great (to me ).  The off-center viewing angles do drop off pretty quickly, but it looks great if you are in front of the monitor and it's fine if you're watching from beside someone.  The LCD is just what I think will work best for me.

I'd be interested if people think that the vector graphics games do look okay on an arcade monitor or TV (well, not just okay, good).  It's not too late for me to switch, and then I might go to a non-rotating format with an arcade monitor or tv.

[edge]

I am using a Dell Ultrasharp 19" LCD in my "prototype-never-finished-always-changing" mame cab. 

My cab is 2-player, with a typical joystick/trackball setup.  We haven't had any issues with viewing angles. 

You can see it here: edgemods.com. 

I have a motor hooked up to it to rotate the LCD by rocker switch.  I am working on adding kill switches so that it will stop automatically.

Ninten-doh - As for front ends, I have same need.  Mala has the ability to switch based on last game played.  I also read that 3d-arcade can do that as well, but I have had limited experience with that FE.

[vrf]

I love the quality of my small LCD. Bu then again, I think arcade monitors are overrated... so take this with a grain of salt.

[ahofle]

I'd be interested if people think that the vector graphics games do look okay on an arcade monitor or TV (well, not just okay, good).  It's not too late for me to switch, and then I might go to a non-rotating format with an arcade monitor or tv.

At first I was disappointed with vector games on my TV, but after playing with some MAME settings like vector intensity, gamma, and resolution, I am now fairly satisfied with how they look.  Of course they aren't near the original vector monitors in terms of quality (neither are PC monitors, CRT or LCD IMO), but they are good enough to enjoy playing the games. 

[Pasqualz]

I don't think I'd go with an LCD until I can get one that is the same size as my 27" TV. I can't imagine having a 20" screen in my cabinet. Does any company make a 25" or 27" 4:3 aspect ratio LCD??? if so, I might switch!

[mark shaker]

If anyone has designed a cabinet explicity for a LCD: I would love to see a picture.

   - Mark

[97thruhiker]

I have an LCD in my Mame cabinet and love it.  I have mine behind a smoked plexi bezel that when its on it looks like its floating.  All you see is the screen within the black.  The smoked plexi knocks down all of the glare.  You cannot see anything but the screen.  I have the scan lines set at 25 % and it looks great.  I rotate the monitor to play all the classics on their original screen size.  Roatate it back to play horizontal games, retro remakes, anything your pc will run, etc.  As previously mentioned I love the fact that you can play anything on it, its easy to set up, lightweight, rotatable, very dependable, etc.  I guess the biggest downside to it is not having the curved screen and not being bigger on horizontal games.  I don't really notice the curved screen issue, and the horizontal games look fine to me standing two feet away from it.  Yes it could be bigger, but for a single player or two player cabinet its perfectly fine to me.  Also, I think placing it behind smoked plexi makes a great deal of difference.  Anyway I did not originally plan to use an LCD in my cabinet.  I was torn between a tv and arcade monitor.  Made my cabinet a little to narrow for a 27 inch tv and was hesitant at the time dealing with a real monitor.  Went with the LCD and have had no regrets.  Heres a link to an old thread where I have some pictures of my cabinet.  The motorized rotatable is in this thread also.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=42218.msg387281#msg387281

[WaRpEd]

I have a 26 inch RCA LCD diplaying at 1280 x 1024 and love it. The VGA input is great and allows me to put my PS2 and XBox in the same cabinet to save precious floor space. My only regret was I built my cab with a 25" arcade monitor in mind and have MUCH deeper cab than I need.

[loadman]

I tried a LCD in my cocktail table and it was no good, Looking at the LCD screen at extreme angles.

It may have been OK if I could afford a really good LCD

[RobotronNut]

I have a 26 inch RCA LCD diplaying at 1280 x 1024 and love it. The VGA input is great ...

is the screen "normal" aspect ratio (4:3) or "widescreen" (16:9)?

[patrickl]

I don't think I'd go with an LCD until I can get one that is the same size as my 27" TV. I can't imagine having a 20" screen in my cabinet. Does any company make a 25" or 27" 4:3 aspect ratio LCD??? if so, I might switch!

Did they start to measure CRT's properly already? The 21" CRT I have actually has a smaller display area than my 19"LCD. The 21"is measured for the whole tube or something and with LCD it's really the viewable area. So my 19" LCD in fact  displays a bigger picture than the original 19" CRT in a classic cab (or even than a 21" for that matter).

I have no problems with the size. It's what you do with it that's important

[vrf]

If anyone has designed a cabinet explicity for a LCD: I would love to see a picture.

   - Mark

I'm not finished yet, but my cab was designed from the ground up to use an LCD. There's no way anything else would fit in there.

[AE35]

But if I look at the prices of 21+" CRT's compared to LCD's of roughly
the same size, I don't like it.

What did you pay for your 21+ LCD's?

And isn't it troublesome to lack complete black?

[Havok]

I tried a LCD in my cocktail table and it was no good, Looking at the LCD screen at extreme angles.

It may have been OK if I could afford a really good LCD

That's an issue only with the older (or perhaps cheaper) LCD's - Mine can be seen clearly at up to about 170 degrees. Two people playing side by side have no issues at all seeing the image.

Also - the "real" blacks are again only an issue on cheap LCD displays. Plus, since you are putting it behind smoked plexi, it is totally compensated for even if you do have display issues with true black.

[97thruhiker]

I have to agree with Havok combined with my own experience.  The viewing angle / black is really non issue today with a majority of your decent LCD's.  Additionally, I don't know how else to say that when it's behind smoked plex it looks beautiful.  The smoked plex cuts down on the brightness and brings the colors out actually (at least it looks that way to me).  If you can rotate the LCD playing the classic games are wonderful.  I have nothing against using a tv, crt, or real arcade monitor even.  If I was building a 90's era fighting cabinet needing a 25 - 27 inch screen then a tv or arcade monitor might be a better choice (even with that said my friend and I love playing street fighter on my cabinet).  As I mentioned before an LCD was not my first choice (due to the same concerns I read here from other posters) but I am extremely happy that I went this route.

[Minwah]

Personally I hate LCD's....they ghost, the colours are not great, poor viewing angle, one fixed resolution (well, for good quality image).  The only advantage is space/weight so they are fine for desktop non-gaming use (I just bought an LCD monitor/HDTV combo as I don't have room for both a CRT TV and monitor).

I can't think of a single reason to not use a CRT in an arcade cabinet, unless size/weight really is that big an issue.

Also one point which people sometimes miss is that running MAME at a high resolution (ie to match the LCD's native mode) can hamper performance considerably.  Perhaps not noticable on really fast machines but I suspect demanding games will still suffer.

I suppose if you are just wanting to play modern PC games then an LCD would be alright, but for MAME and suchlike LCD's are just not suitable IMHO.

[vrf]

Personally I hate LCD's....they ghost, the colours are not great, poor viewing angle

Sounds like your experience with LCDs has been limited to what you can find at garage sales. You might rethink this after trying newer ones.

[RobotronNut]

one point which people sometimes miss is that running MAME at a high resolution (ie to match the LCD's native mode) can hamper performance considerably.

that is why i like plasmas so much. they have much bigger pixels, a disadvantage for some uses, but great for mame. i get 640x480 pixels in a 33" diagonal area on a 42" widesreen plasma. (a 25" 4:3 plasma would be perfect...)

the 20" and largerLCDs are even higher res - 1600x1200. they can take lower-res signals, which they interpolate to fill the screen. is anyone using these lower-res modes successfully with mame?

[u_rebelscum]

Personally I hate LCD's....they ghost, the colours are not great, poor viewing angle

Sounds like your experience with LCDs has been limited to what you can find at garage sales. You might rethink this after trying newer ones.

While I agree LCDs have come a long way, IMO CRTs still have a higher quality image.  I have yet to see an LCD than can match a CRT in all five of the following: colors, blacks, grey-to-grey speed (aka refresh speed, aka ghosting), viewing angle, and contrast.  There are LCDs that can match 3 or come close to matching 4 of them, but at the sacrafice of the others. 

LCDs can easily beat CRTs in other areas: sharpness, brightness, size, weight, energy use, temperature, burn-in, and rotation.

I miss my CRT. 

Did they start to measure CRT's properly already?

Here in US, computer CRTs can still be quoted on the tube size but the viewable size is usually also quoted.  TVs and arcade monitor must use the viewable size.

The 21" CRT I have actually has a smaller display area than my 19"LCD. The 21"is measured for the whole tube or something and with LCD it's really the viewable area.

I had two 17" CRTs: the iiyama had a 16.1" viewable screen, the gateway had 14.9" viewable screen.  (Point: you can't say all CRTs are like yours.)

So my 19" LCD in fact  displays a bigger picture than the original 19" CRT in a classic cab (or even than a 21" for that matter).

Do not confuse PC monitors and arcade monitors.  A 19" arcade monitor was 19" viewable (plus or minus 0.1" or so).  So your 19" LCD is the same size as a 19" arcade monitor.

OTOH, your LCD is bigger than a 20" computer monitor.  Some 21" computer monitors are bigger than your 19" LCD, some 22" computer monitors are smaller.

[leapinlew]

Personally I hate LCD's....they ghost, the colours are not great, poor viewing angle, one fixed resolution (well, for good quality image).  The only advantage is space/weight so they are fine for desktop non-gaming use (I just bought an LCD monitor/HDTV combo as I don't have room for both a CRT TV and monitor).

I can't think of a single reason to not use a CRT in an arcade cabinet, unless size/weight really is that big an issue.

Also one point which people sometimes miss is that running MAME at a high resolution (ie to match the LCD's native mode) can hamper performance considerably.  Perhaps not noticable on really fast machines but I suspect demanding games will still suffer.

I suppose if you are just wanting to play modern PC games then an LCD would be alright, but for MAME and suchlike LCD's are just not suitable IMHO.

I agree....

Size: since we are talking about arcade cabinets here you should always have the room for a crt. Sure, you could make pac-man in a smaller form factor, but to me, it's just not the same.

Quality: I believe CRT's to have a superior quality for all the different resolutions that arcade games deliver. They have the brighter colors, and the darker blacks. LCD's don't run as hot as CRT's. Where LCD's shine is no-burn in, which leads me to my next point.

Cost: CRT's are nearly free right now. If you manage to get burn-in after a year - so what.


A LCD deserves a new style cabinet.

[Arcades R Fun]

This issue has been addressed in an earlier thread.
It's all subjective opinion. But I have used Tube TV's, arcade monitors, PC monitors, and now LCD TV's. All the above listed video displays have good and bad point about them.

We now build all our upright games with 27" Viewsonic LCD Tv's and our customers love the picture quality! They play anything from the older classics to modern day games.

The downside of course is the typical DIY builder would have to shell out nearly $700 for the LCD. But with prices falling every year, LCD's will soon be as cheap as 27" arcade monitors. In fact 32" LCD tv's are now below $1,000 and that's going to be the next project for our 4 player games!

Jack
Arcades R Fun LLC

[Havok]

We now build all our upright games with 27" Viewsonic LCD Tv's and our customers love the picture quality! They play anything from the older classics to modern day games.

If you don't mind me asking, what model do you use? Also, do you have a website?

[severdhed]

i am using this monitor in my cabinet

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824004018

it isnt anything special, but the picture quality is very good and i couldnt be happier with it.