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Author Topic: Joysticks of preference change rapidly  (Read 5106 times)

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Boz

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Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« on: June 28, 2006, 03:08:16 pm »
It seems that keeping up with the latest and greatest arcade controls is nearly as hard as it is to keep up to date on the latest technology. When I was doing research 4 or 5 months ago, the Happ 49-way was the way to go. Now that I'm finally building my cabinet, I'm finding posts and recommendations from many that the Ultimarc 49-way is the choice joystick to have.

I can't keep up and I feel like I'm starting over! I need to order parts now.

For the four-player cab I'm building (link), I'd like to use 49-ways in all 4 player postitions, that feel good and have lots of control. The single player spot I'm planning (in the middle of the CP) needs to have a very good, physically restricted 4-way that emulates, as much as possible, the "feel" of the old games (pacman, DK). A top-switchable 4/8-way model is ok as long as the 4-way has the "feel"

There are just too many posts to sift through everything, believe me I've been doing it for hours and hours.

Can I request your opinions and get your recommendations? Money is no object.

Thanks in advance.

johnperkins21

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2006, 04:22:00 pm »
What 4 player games use 49-ways? I believe most use 8-way joys, and thus you should be able to get away with using Happs Competition 8-ways for those. Although those with more experience than I may have more info.

What I'm looking at doing for my eventual 4-player is two Perfect 360s for 1 and 2, two Competitions for 3 and 4, and a trackball. I plan on doing one more panel that will have 4 Competitions set up to be used for dual-joystick games, one dedicated 4-way for the old school games, and a spinner or two.

It's just not possible to build one panel that works perfectly for everything, so I'd rather have 2 or 3 that work really, really well for the games I want to play.
Bob Dole likes cheese.

shardian

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2006, 04:29:26 pm »
blitz, gauntlet dark legacy use 49-ways, but they aren't really mame compatible right now from what I understand.

RandyT

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2006, 05:12:20 pm »
Ultimarc doesn't make the 49-way setup, we do.  And depending on your needs, it could very well still be what you are looking for.

In fact, there's a new version I have totally re-engineered from the HAPP/Midway parts that will make your eyes glaze over with desire.

It's just not for sale yet.  :P


RandyT
« Last Edit: June 28, 2006, 05:15:44 pm by RandyT »

Turnarcades

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2006, 05:16:43 pm »
 ??? I use nice simple Suzo 2/8-way joysticks for mine. They are sturdy, have nice solid shafts with ball-tops and have low throw ranges. I found these to be very responsive and take loads of stick (excuse the pun).

They have restrictors on the bottom that are fairly easy to adjust and even though they are 'cheaper' in cost, I'd say they're not cheaper in design. Not tried them in the other mode (2-way) but I'c bet they are alright.

At

mccoy178

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2006, 05:18:39 pm »
Ultimarc's new controller for the time being sounds very promising.  You can get the entire kit in the controller and plug it in usb.  Groovy Game Gears GPWiz 49 way interface allows you to connect an original 49 way controller into it and then use usb.  The price of both is about a wash at the end of the day.  In my opinion, you only need a dedicated 4 way for those type of games.  In using a 49 way, I haven't had any issue with fighters or any other 8 way game for that matter.  The only thing missing to me is the clicking.  I like the 49 way controls because of the pc games.  You can play NFL Blitz on PC as well as a few others that are great on the cabinet.  I skipped the dedicated 4 way to make room for the trackball, but like almost anyone else, it would have been nice to add.

DaveMMR

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2006, 05:18:47 pm »
Quote
In fact, there's a new version I have totally re-engineered from the HAPP/Midway parts that will make your eyes glaze over with desire.

You guys keep introducing joysticks and I'll never get my panel done!!!   ;)   

Sharidian and Johnperkings, I think In2ishun was referring to using the 49-way as a versatile joystick -- I think.  If that's not the case, then no, don't buy four 49-ways.  As a matter of fact, after reading your setup, you can get by on zero 49-ways (unless you really like games that utilize them).

I think the reason people are interested in these sticks (and Ultimarc's new stick) is to unclutter the panel (and reduce the amount of dedicated sticks).  If you already have 4 players and a dedicated 4-way, just get a couple of 360's, a couple of Supers/whatever for players 3 and 4 and whatever 4-way strikes your fancy. 

If you wanted, you can get a couple of 49-ways for the middle players should you feel the need to play Arch Rivals the way it was meant to.  At least one if you really, really like Sinistar. 

RandyT

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2006, 05:24:40 pm »
You guys keep introducing joysticks and I'll never get my panel done!!!   ;)   

Sharidian and Johnperkings, I think In2ishun was referring to using the 49-way as a versatile joystick -- I think.  If that's not the case, then no, don't buy four 49-ways.  As a matter of fact, after reading your setup, you can get by on zero 49-ways (unless you really like games that utilize them).

To clarify, versatile means a stick that plays 4-way and diagonal games (as well as 8-way and 49-way games) on the same stick much better than a regular 8-way switch based stick.

Oh, did I mention that the new 49-way stick will have rotary function as a stock option?  ;)

RandyT

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2006, 05:53:18 pm »
Thanks Randy, I was a bit vague in my post.  I appreciate the clarification. 

I'm in that same boat as In2ishun.  I kept holding back on the joysticks (it's almost the last thing I have to buy), 'waiting and seeing'.  After reading up and getting excited about Ultimarc's 360s, I've flip-flopped again and decided I may stick with 49-ways, especially since I already have the encoders. 

So Randy, since you've already peppered this thread with teasers, when can we expect an official unveiling?

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2006, 10:29:37 pm »
Hey Randy, when is it coming out approximately? Sounds really good.

Boz

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2006, 01:10:09 am »
...that will make your eyes glaze over with desire. It's just not for sale yet.  :P

Yeah... this post wasn't really helpful. As I said, I have to buy parts now.

Sheesh! :banghead:
« Last Edit: June 29, 2006, 01:32:24 am by In2ishun »

mccoy178

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2006, 01:41:43 am »
I would recommend the wiki or retroblasts' online review of joysticks.  That helped me a ton.

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2006, 02:36:07 am »
Randy, will it be the cheesy Spinner feeling type rotary ala Happ.  Or it will it feel like a true Ikari Warriors type rotary with the spin/lock type of rotation.?

If that made any sense at all :).

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2006, 08:29:16 am »
You guys keep introducing joysticks and I'll never get my panel done!!!   ;)   

Sharidian and Johnperkings, I think In2ishun was referring to using the 49-way as a versatile joystick -- I think.  If that's not the case, then no, don't buy four 49-ways.  As a matter of fact, after reading your setup, you can get by on zero 49-ways (unless you really like games that utilize them).

To clarify, versatile means a stick that plays 4-way and diagonal games (as well as 8-way and 49-way games) on the same stick much better than a regular 8-way switch based stick.

Oh, did I mention that the new 49-way stick will have rotary function as a stock option?  ;)

RandyT

Oh great! I can see I will need to buy this and build another control panel!

Boz

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2006, 04:59:53 pm »
I would recommend the wiki or retroblasts' online review of joysticks.  That helped me a ton.

Good point. I actually read through every single joystick review I could find over there. Nearly all of them were dated late 2004. I figured I would probably be missing something if I used them exclusively. Thanks McCoy.


Boz

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2006, 05:26:22 pm »
Johnperkins: You know what? I never even considered whether or not positions 3 and 4 would even use 49-way joys. I think what motivated the thought of using the 49-ways was that all joysticks would feel the same in any of the player positions and would behave the same way. No, no... I know I'm not going to get every game to play the same. I think that's the fun challenge of building control panels though. Getting as close as possible to original layouts with the least number of controls and the least amount of clutter.

I'm sure there's a mathematical equation that we can use to come up with the PERFECT control panel though. You know... like facial beauty is actually a function of symmetry.

Samshaw: I'm going to look into those joysticks you mentioned. You have me interested in the price/performance margin. Thanks

Mccoy: Thanks for the tips on the 49-way. I had a limited understanding of what it would take to implement one and Shardian mentioned that 49-ways are not really mame compatible right now without an encoder (do I have that right?). I have plenty of wiring to consider without a distinct 49-way encoder to work too much with at the moment. I'll probably take your suggestion and use 49-ways in the 1 and 2 player positions and then some nice 8-ways on the corners. Good call and I appreciate your input. It helped.

DaveMMR: Yup, you guessed it. I really like the games that utilize the 49-ways :) Oh, and you were also correct in that I was looking for not only very smooth and consistent joys, but also uniformity throughout the CP. I think I can achieve visual uniformity with ball tops and don't necessarily have to worry about uniform fluidity on the player 3 and 4 positions. I probably won't play there much. :P

To any moderator listening in:
an interesting sticky would be a list of the top ten (twenty?) joysticks, pushbuttons, spinners, etc based on their "debut" date. This board is WAY too big to search through these days to gleen quick information about what works well and what doesn't. I wouldn't know how to make the list or how hard it would be to maintain (a key factor), but I would certainly have used it. I have seen the FAQ about hardware and it also helped me with this.

I'll post back here when I've come up with a cursory grocery list. Let you guys have a wack at my hardware considerations.

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2006, 05:30:05 pm »
I'm so glad everyone is still ignoring the Suzo Inductives. So glad......there will be more left for me :D

Boz

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2006, 05:51:48 pm »
I'm so glad everyone is still ignoring the Suzo Inductives. So glad......there will be more left for me :D

Busted! I've put it on the list.  :D

Level42

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2006, 06:48:11 pm »
Ahh, don't bother.....they're knackered old things, play sluggish and will last only about a week. Have miles of travel and throw and make lots of noise. They're rubbish....leave them alone....


(Did I convince you ? No ?? Damn...... ;) ;) ;)

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2006, 07:39:33 pm »
Randy, will it be the cheesy Spinner feeling type rotary ala Happ.  Or it will it feel like a true Ikari Warriors type rotary with the spin/lock type of rotation.?


(tick-tick-tick)  ;D


RandyT

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2006, 08:58:39 pm »
Randy, will it be the cheesy Spinner feeling type rotary ala Happ.  Or it will it feel like a true Ikari Warriors type rotary with the spin/lock type of rotation.?


(tick-tick-tick)  ;D


RandyT

Sirp, heads up, we may need some software here. >:D

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2006, 10:06:29 pm »
Dammit does this mean I should wait on my order from GGG now?


I am in early stages of construction.  As in I just ordered the monitor and waiting for that to build my cab around.
.... then my daughter said "Daddy, those games are old."

mccoy178

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2006, 01:51:22 am »
I would say that with the release of Ultimarc's and the announcement of Randy here, I would definitely hold off for a little while.  It will probably take up to six months to get a good amount of feedback and figure out which one has it going on.

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2006, 12:48:26 am »
Awww heck don't hold off. Then you deny yourself months without your machine. If the new one is the bomb, replace your current stick or build another project!

NightGod

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2006, 01:52:21 am »
Personally, I just decided to drop in 4 Competition sticks since they only run about 10 bucks each and wait for a few months to see how things shake out-seems like a lot of upheaval and innovation coming into the joystick market right now, so I'm going to see where things stand in a bit and make a final decision then.
$6.75 the hard way-one quarter at a time.

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2006, 07:43:09 am »
I agree with Cameronj, just buy whatever stick has the features you'd want right now.   Sticks are easy enough to replace down the road.  I doubt you can go wrong with any of the offerings right now.


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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2006, 01:21:41 pm »
Yeah  I don't want to be denying myself!!! ;D

Plans WERE for P360's for 1&2 and Competition for 3&4.

Are the P360's as good as that Retroblast review?
.... then my daughter said "Daddy, those games are old."

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2006, 08:00:23 pm »
Any word on the new joystick Randy?

crzywolf

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2006, 08:41:15 pm »
Any word on the new joystick Randy?
I asked Randy T in another thread about the joysticks and he said:
Quote
I had something to do on that project to make the setup a little more affordable.  I'm over a major hurdle now and in the home stretch

RandyT
so it should not be long now . :)
« Last Edit: October 01, 2006, 08:45:27 pm by crzywolf »

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2006, 02:37:24 pm »
Any word on the new joystick Randy?
I asked Randy T in another thread about the joysticks and he said:
Quote
I had something to do on that project to make the setup a little more affordable.  I'm over a major hurdle now and in the home stretch

RandyT
so it should not be long now . :)


There will be a new interface released at the same time as the sticks.  I don't want to let too much out of the bag yet, but I decided to add some extra capability to it before I released it.  It's coming along well, but added a bit of a delay.  I have a feeling a few of you will consider it to be something worth waiting for ;).

RandyT






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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2006, 06:20:49 pm »
Any guesses on how much of a delay?  :)

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2006, 12:18:44 am »
Any guesses on how much of a delay?  :)

Couple weeks, tops.  Maybe sooner.


RandyT

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2006, 09:49:56 pm »
Ok Randy, by my calculations it has been 14 days, 21 hours, 31 minutes since your last tease regarding the new 49-way you are working on.  I think that qualifies as a couple of weeks, how about a cool new joystick product announcement?   8)
Read to your kids, you'll all be better for it.

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2006, 10:19:21 pm »

This is why I loathe completion dates :)

I know it's one of those "real life" things, but here in the Northeast we have to get ready for winter months and it's starting to look like they're going to be here early this year.  We've recently been putting the finishing touches on a major renovation to our workplace (I've been doing much of the construction myself) and that has pushed things out a bit more than I had hoped.  Now we have to clean up the debris and tighten things up before we get buried in snow.

On the "stick front" there is also one part of the optional feature that I would like to improve before I make everything available.  The rest I could pretty much release now, but I'm not too enthused about promising functionality without knowing exactly when I can deliver it, and I don't want something dodgy out there with the GGG name on it.  Not my style :)

My progress is:

Base Joystick hardware - 100%  (aprox. 100 units in stock)
Optional Function - 85%
Support Software - 95%
Interface - 90% (not including testing.  The base sticks will also work fine with the current GP-Wiz49 interfaces)

So, I'm still on it and will be bringing it all together as soon as I am able.  Sorry it's been taking so long and I appreciate the interest in the project.

RandyT


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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2006, 11:34:20 pm »
No problem Randy, take as long as you like...... As long as it's done next week no one gets hurt  ;D

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2006, 06:02:57 am »
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!!!  The suspense is killing me.  I can hardly wait to see it.

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2006, 12:13:08 pm »
just posting to subscribe to the thread... I can't wait to see what's cookin in the GG kitchen!

rampy

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2006, 01:30:30 pm »

This is why I loathe completion dates :)

I know it's one of those "real life" things, but here in the Northeast we have to get ready for winter months and it's starting to look like they're going to be here early this year.  We've recently been putting the finishing touches on a major renovation to our workplace (I've been doing much of the construction myself) and that has pushed things out a bit more than I had hoped.  Now we have to clean up the debris and tighten things up before we get buried in snow......


Snow is not real, it is staged like the moon landing........... so stop whining and make some joysticks ;D

crzywolf

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2006, 03:46:41 pm »
Interface - 90% (not including testing.  The base sticks will also work fine with the current GP-Wiz49 interfaces

I already bought two GP-Wiz 49 max interfaces so, is there going to be a new interface that will work with these ? or am I going to need to buy all new interfaces in order to use all the new options ?

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Re: Joysticks of preference change rapidly
« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2006, 07:32:13 pm »
just posting to subscribe to the thread...

yup. me too.