Problems with a joypad hack for arcade controls

[Turnarcades]

  Hi all.
I've nearly finally finished constructing my first proper MAME arcade cabinet, but I've encountered a problem with the controls interface I am using.

Basically, I've hard-wired the joysticks and buttons for both players into a couple of old PS1 joypads. That way (I figured) I would be able to just plug the controls straight into my playstation or into my PC (using the Super Joybox 5) without any problems. Unfortunately in practice, I have been unable to get the results I was after.

When plugging them into my PS2 or PS1, they are top-notch - the respnse time is instant, all 8-ways of the joystick work properly and multiple button-presses or rapid bashing cause absolutely no problems.

However, when I plug them into the joybox and then into my PC to play PC games or emulators, I find I am experiencing both ghosting (like a keyboard hack) and that there is a very slight delay when any input is made (directions or buttons). Also, rapid button pressing shows that certain presses just aren't 'registering'. For example, rapid-button moves int Street Fighter don't work properly, moves requiring fast movements like dragon punches etc. fail. The problem is twice as bad when playing in two-player mode.

Can anyone shed some light on this and let me know if they have experienced similar problems with joypad adaptors like the joybox, as it is getting very frustrating and I don't now want to have to completely re-do my controls. I don't remember it ever happening when I was using my actual controllers to play the games, although I may not have been looking for it at the time.

Maybe someone knows of a software issue or if a driver update is available? Someone help!!

[hanelyp]

What kind of adaptor is joybox?
USB?  shouldn't need any special drivers unless you're running an older OS, or it's a flakey device.
Through the parallel port?  I'd suspect bad drivers.  Noisy data transfer might also cause simular symptoms.

What OS is your game PC running?  How are CPU and memory compared to game requirements?  Too slow a machine I wouldn't expect to produce ghosting, but might contribute to other mentioned problems.

(as for ghosting on a keyboard hack, it shouldn't happen if the hack was done properly.)

[Turnarcades]

Yeah the Super Joybox 5 is rated as one of the best USB joypad adaptors for the PC. It's a 4-player adaptor (4 PS controllers can be plugged in to it, then it plugs into a single USB port).
After reading about problems with the USB interface elsewhere (saying that it can only register so many inputs etc.) I used to use two seperate single joypad adaptors before building my cabinet. I had heard that certain devices manage to get round this with the way they are built, and like I say I don't remember getting this when using the controllers before. After all, why would they bother having 4 players on one USB slot if it suffered from this problem?

I did used to run Windows 98 but since I upgraded to XP I couldn't be arsed to roll back. I know that a lot of emulators don't run as well on XP and I've noticed small pauses and sound glitches with MAME under XP, so perhaps that could be the problem, Just seems odd that I never noticed it before (if it was happening before) and that it is perfect when used on my Playstations. I'm confident my wiring is bang-on as I've tested a variety of Playstation games and they're all fine. Plus the lag and 'ghosting' does seem worse on certain emulators than others. For instance, Gens doesn't suffer too badly, whereas ZSNES and MAME both do.   

Any further thoughts? I'm surprised no-one uses this device - it's very popular.

[dougman]

Yup, I have the exact same issue.
I was using a SmartJoy Dual Plus from liksang.
The response is flaking, and impossible to use in fighting games.
When you do quarter circle or half circle sweeps, it will most often miss the diagonals. 

I tried it on 4 different controllers hacked.
I gave up and just bought a keyboard encoder.

[Turnarcades]

  Oh crap. Sounds like my perfect plan was a little too perfect. You'd think with the added feature of extra controllers and support to run it in dance-mat mode, they'd have made it a bit more responsive. Unfortunately the reviews I'd heard raved about it and it definitely has the best build quality of them all. Might need to borrow my old adaptors back from my nephew and see if that suffers from the same problem.

Maybe individual adaptors might work better, maybe I'm being optimistic. Either way, I need an alternative solution. I didn't really want to have to fork out extra cash for an encoder though, else I might not have bothered wiring them into joypads in the first place. I've heard of people hacking regular usb controllers with no problems (that they've reported, anyway) so maybe I will go with that option, if anyone knows if this works well, of course....

Maybe I can still keep it wired as it is, and just bridge them off onto USB joypads or into an encoder?

[hanelyp]

...I know that a lot of emulators don't run as well on XP and I've noticed small pauses and sound glitches with MAME under XP, so perhaps that could be the problem, Just seems odd that I never noticed it before...

XP has advantages, such as fairly good USB support, but is a resource hog.  Performance and stability can be improved by going through and cleaning which services and programs are run from startup, but you should have a rank or 2 in computer admin before doing that yourself.  Also, try to not have other programs running in the background while playing games.

[knohbody]

http://www.gamesx.com/stickadapt/

I was planning on doing something like this. Keep a standard pinout for the joystick you make and make custom connectors out of controllers.

The ghosting seems like a software issue to me, if it seems better in some programs but not others. Done any tests with native pc games?

Also, I've read that the brand of the controller sometimes makes a difference. Are you using cheapies or real Sony pads?
Just some things to think aboot.

-Knohbody

[Turnarcades]

  I was never a fan of XP myself anyway and I hate the number of processes that are constantly running under XP. In fact the only point of XP I found useful was the USB plug'n'play, but as I will be rolling back to Windows 98 and have no need for regular USB device switching I no longer feel the need to keep it.

To answer the other question, I used cheaper PS pads as they had better contact points for soldering. It's not really an issue and I'm sure that doesn't make much difference. At the end of the day, it's clunky buttons and the rest of the casing that makes for a bad joypad I reckon, rather than the internals.

I did notice a bit of lag in PC games so I think it's the joybox interface that is causing the main problems. I may be able to reduce the problems but I think I'm just going to get an I-pac from Ultimarc - they're only about

[Forces21]

Hi.

I have to admit I don't tend to use ps1/2 pad converters on PC's. Just wondered if you'd could get a cheap PC pad & hack that instead... I believe that these work better that unsing the converters?

I use the ArcadeVGA & J-Pac from ultimarc & both a great, but I have seen a few issues raised when using the console adapters with the I-Pac about not being able to pull certain moves in SF etc. when using many key presses.... Just thought I'd let you know this as I can't remember see any fix type responses from a number of boards.

But if you just like to use MAME & emu's on the PC then wiring direct to an I-Pac & then to the PC is the best solution & works a treat.

Have fun in your future endeavours.

Regards

Forces21 (Carl)

[Turnarcades]

  No I think I'll stick with a keyboard encoder - at least that way I can assign certain command buttons through the encoder and use a wireless keyboard rather than hacking one.

After what you said about the playstation adaptor through the Ipac, I'm glad I didn't go for one.

I did consider hacking a PC joypad, but finding one with enough buttons, then bothering to find out if it suffers from the usual USB constraints, or if I have enough ports etc... it was just too much hassle, and I'd rather go with a professional tried+tested method like the Ipac. At least then I can still keep the wiring hooked up to the PS pads I've already hacked and have the best of both worlds.

When I start building cabinets to re-sell soon, it's something I'll be bearing in mind.

[GoPodular.com]

I did a quick summary about using adaptors HERE.

Without going to a dedicated PC encoder like the ipac or keywiz, your best bet would be individual adaptors for genuine Sony pads.  Even then it can be a gamble.